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BS: Your opportunity to be creative.
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BS: Your opportunity to be creative. |
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Subject: BS: Your opportunity to be creative. From: Stanron Date: 05 Jul 15 - 08:19 PM Borrower "Please lend me lots of money" Lender "You've not yet paid back the last lot of money we lent" Borrower "That's because your terms are too cruel. Lend us some more money and we will pay you back with that" Lender "OK. We will lend you more money if you agree to cut down on spending" Borrower "No No. This is too cruel. We have discussed this and you must lend us money and not expect us to pay it back" Lender Fill this bit in yourself. Your opportunity to be creative. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your opportunity to be creative. From: Steve Shaw Date: 05 Jul 15 - 08:37 PM No mention there of the lender being a totally undemocratic ripoff merchant. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your opportunity to be creative. From: Rob Naylor Date: 05 Jul 15 - 08:50 PM Lender: "No, you must cut down on spending." Borrower: " But you only lent to me in the first place, even though you knew I couldn't afford it, so that you could sell me the cars, washing machines and TVs that you make. If you hadn't lent to me then you wouldn't have been able to make those products you sold me, as you wouldn't have had a market." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your opportunity to be creative. From: Steve Shaw Date: 05 Jul 15 - 09:03 PM Borrower: "Let me off my debts, which are piddling beside your massive wealth, that wealth which we helped to create for you in the first place at our expense." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your opportunity to be creative. From: GUEST,# Date: 05 Jul 15 - 11:47 PM Lender: "We lent you money knowing you couldn't pay it back. But now we want you to pay it back." Borrower: "We are the government of Greece and we bailed out our corporations, but yes, we will get the people to pay you back." The People: "F*** you!" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your opportunity to be creative. From: GUEST,Musket fruitless Date: 06 Jul 15 - 04:02 AM Lender - If we let you off, those who we insisted on complying with terms will want a better deal, those with the money will tell them to piss off and Greece won't be the only place banks won't open. It isn't just Euro currency members with an issue here. I suppose many here in The UK will cheer on the Greeks, up till the point their own pensions are cut, their own savings taken away and their own economy fucked. Still, at least a 55 year old in Greece will have had a few more years of 100% salary pension paid by you. It ain't going to happen. Greece is a basket case, always has been, always will be. It was irresponsible having expectations of them. But we are where we are. The issue isn't Greece, it's the tightening of spending other member states have to comply with. Let them off the hook and problems just begin. Refuse to bail them out and China or Russia get air bases in Europe. Turkey must be shitting itself. Carry on the conversation from there. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your opportunity to be creative. From: Steve Shaw Date: 06 Jul 15 - 06:46 AM In the overall scheme of things, letting them off the hook is small beer in terms of mazuma. The conundrum for us big rich nations is the likelihood of contagion. As you point out, not letting them off the hook will be catastrophic in terms of creating instability and voids into which Russia and China may be inclined to step. It was unwise of Greece and several other poorer nations to join the euro. It was unwise of Germany and France to let them join the euro. Germany in particular has done very well indeed out of the euro, but they are now confronting payback time. I don't think Germany will let the euro collapse. There is a moral dimension to running an economy in a corrupt and ramshackle manner. There is also a moral dimension to cruising along very nicely indeed when times are good then chucking Greece overboard for behaving exactly as everyone expected them to when they joined, just because times get hard. One of those cases in which everyone is wrong all of the time |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your opportunity to be creative. From: GUEST,Kampervan Date: 06 Jul 15 - 06:55 AM I know that you can't go back, and what's done is done, but the Euro should never have come into being as it did. They had all of the criteria very well defined and they then proceeded to fiddle the economic performance of a number of the member states to make them fit. It was always going to be road crash for someone, it just happens to be the Greeks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your opportunity to be creative. From: meself Date: 06 Jul 15 - 01:45 PM Lender: Let's take this to a Higher Authority - God? God: At the end of every seven years you shall grant a release of debts. And this is the form of the release: Every creditor who has lent anything to his neighbor shall release it; he shall not require it of his neighbor or his brother, because it is called the Lord's release. [And furthermore:] If there is among you a poor man of your brethren ... you shall not harden your heart nor shut your hand from your poor brother, but you shall open your hand wide to him and willingly lend him sufficient for his need, whatever he needs. Beware lest there be a wicked thought in your heart, saying, "The seventh year, the year of release, is at hand," and your eye be evil against your poor brother and you give him nothing, and he cry out to the LORD against you, and it become sin among you. You shall surely give to him, and your heart should not be grieved when you give to him, because for this thing the LORD your God will bless you in all your works and in all to which you put your hand. For the poor will never cease from the land; therefore I command you, saying, "You shall open your hand wide to your brother, to your poor and your needy, in your land." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your opportunity to be creative. From: BobL Date: 07 Jul 15 - 03:17 AM Am I alone in seeing any similarity here between Greece and certain third-world countries? Or is the comparison invalid? Discuss. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your opportunity to be creative. From: GUEST,Polonius Date: 08 Jul 15 - 12:04 AM Neither a borrower nor a lender be; For loan oft loses both itself and friend, And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your opportunity to be creative. From: Mr Red Date: 08 Jul 15 - 02:06 AM Lender Would you want it in Drachmas - or cigarettes? History inevitably repeats itself, it has to, nobody is listening. Now why was the union with Scotland finally made so important? Would it be bankruptcy caused by greed untempered by research? Colonial ambition unfettered by prudence? Scotland take note, and not a bank note thankyou very much. Now why did Scotland propose currency union and not fiscal? Phew that was a near one! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your opportunity to be creative. From: Doug Chadwick Date: 08 Jul 15 - 04:16 AM A good one heard at a session last night...... In future, Euros will be printed on Greece proof paper. DC |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your opportunity to be creative. From: GUEST Date: 08 Jul 15 - 07:03 AM If Greece wasn't allowed into The Euro in the first place, many would be saying it was pompous not to trust them. Now, the same people come over as pompous for saying they are too thick to be trusted so let them off the hook. Out of interest, even if all the troika wrote the debt off tomorrow, it would be difficult to see how their banks could last a week. Then who would lend them, considering their credit rating is zero? The only option for the people of Greece is to negotiate with creditors. A referendum stating falsely that creditors would have to respect the outcome of a foreign referendum is insulting to them. It changes nothing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your opportunity to be creative. From: Jim Carroll Date: 08 Jul 15 - 09:02 AM "Neither a borrower nor a lender be;" A statement from a mealy-mouthed appeaser to murder who ends up getting stabbed in the arras. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your opportunity to be creative. From: Mr Red Date: 08 Jul 15 - 05:18 PM Beware of Greeks bearing gifts! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your opportunity to be creative. From: Stanron Date: 10 Jul 15 - 08:21 AM I've been locked out of mudcat for most of the last couple of days. All I could get was a blank page with the word 'bonk' in the top left hand corner. Weird. As a result I have not been able to come back to this thread until now. It appears that the general opinion was 'austerity or out'. 'Out' might have included debt write off as well. It now looks like the country has decided that austerity is better than out but what a costly exercise. Oh, and will they change their minds once they have the bail out? |
