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BS: Frack Hydraulic Fracturing gas wells
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BS: Frack Hydraulic Fracturing gas wells |
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Subject: BS: Frack Hydraulic Fracturing gas wells From: gnu Date: 17 Nov 14 - 01:10 PM I became concerned about fracking in my province of NB.ca quite a while ago. Things started really "heating" up just up the road from me in 2013 (Google "Rexton fracking protest"). I became frustrated with the disjointed and argumentative Facebook pages and with the fragmentation of groups on and off Facebook so I decided to start a Facebook page dedicated to "information only". I have not allowed discussion of links and I am the only one who can approve links and member requests... in other words, just the facts, Ma'am. Even so, I have had to delete posts from "overly enthusiastic" members who want to put in their two bits. Since 2014.07.01, there have been many hundreds of links posted on Frack. It would take months to read/view them. They cover the industry history, regulations, various studies and research, personal accounts, legal proceedings, accidents, contamination spills, earthquake inducement, protests, resource links... you name it... in NA and Europe. Have a boo. Comment here if you have any advice or want to contribute but don't have a Facebook membership. Thanks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Frack Hydraulic Fracturing gas wells From: LilyFestre Date: 17 Nov 14 - 01:59 PM I live in area that is currently being very drilled or is in the process of having new well pads drilled. There are now at least 14 pads, each housing 8 wells and up within 3 square miles. My list of complaints is long. My worry list about the water is even longer. Currently there is something very strange looking being built about 3 miles from our home. It's not a substation. Could you PM me your Facebook info and I'll send you a photo...maybe you can tell me what the heck it is. Michelle |
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Subject: RE: BS: Frack Hydraulic Fracturing gas wells From: Ed T Date: 17 Nov 14 - 04:10 PM I don't have any expertise in the field. But, my common sense tells me there is no local loss, or local risk to keep the stuff in the ground. Why not keepmit stored tgere until "credible" science and technology has more reliable knowledge on how this resource can be accessed in a less risk adverse and environmentally-friendly manner. Given the current situation, the only real beneficiary now seems to be those already with fuel lines and tanks and bank accounts filled. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Frack Hydraulic Fracturing gas wells From: Nick Date: 17 Nov 14 - 06:44 PM I'd be interested in your facebook page too. There is the possibility of fracking locally in our area of North Yorkshire so it is of interest. My wife especially has taken an interest in the subject recently and is finding it hard to get a balanced view of it so she can form a view. There is a local group who have a very anti-position (which may well be correct or not) and she has recently been in touch with one of the energy companies who are going to come and talk to give there side (which again may be right or wrong or just different) The one thing it seems to me so far is how little most people we know know about it (I include myself though I have started to read up on what I can find). there seems a lot of stealth and secrecy going on which is always a concern too There do seem to be a lot of negative experiences from the US - communities with water supplies f***ed and living on supplied bottled water (free if they keep their mouths shut), tremors, noise, bad experiences with drilling 24 hours a day etc On the other hand quite a lot of suggestions that regulations in this country would mean it is somehow safer. Difficult to work out what is true and what isn't so any info would be very useful. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Frack Hydraulic Fracturing gas wells From: Nigel Parsons Date: 17 Nov 14 - 07:06 PM In the UK we need fracking (which some scientists say is safe) to enable us to shore up our power industry following the intention to reduce reliance on burning fossil fuels (which some scientists say leads inexorably to global warming). The world may well go to hell in a handcart, but it seems that the scientists have joined the lawyers in being able to find themselves a niche, and keep in gainful (if not useful) employment. Typing the above I realise that online spell-checkers have not yet discovered 'fracking' as an acceptable word. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Frack Hydraulic Fracturing gas wells From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 17 Nov 14 - 08:54 PM I an reaping the benefits of fracking every week that I fill my gas tanks. OPEC is crapping blue sludge at this moment. The USA has become an energy exporting nation. Sincerely, Gargoyle In a desperate public relations move some Arabian concerns funded the propaganda film "Gas Lands" that has been discredited in all academic circles. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Frack Hydraulic Fracturing gas wells From: olddude Date: 18 Nov 14 - 12:17 AM Lets see..... Sink holes, poison ground water, gas seeping into our basements sure sounds good to me. In the meantime the king of fracking is a hero in buffalo as he now owns the buffalo Bills and buffalo sabres and built a 100 million dollar complex downtown with taxpayer dollars. Yup fracking helps us all |
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Subject: RE: BS: Frack Hydraulic Fracturing gas wells From: gnu Date: 18 Nov 14 - 05:08 AM My Facebook page is named "Frack". https://www.facebook.com/groups/187245954789252/ I did not make a blicky because I don't want people who do not use Facebook to waste their time clicking it. To anyone who claims fracking is safe or says it will help with global warming or whatever, I can only say, "Search "fracking". Check out You Tube. Check out Facebook page "Frack"." I've done the literature review. It's on my page. You're welcome. Unfortunately, I have more work to do on my page so I won't enter into any discussion herein. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Frack Hydraulic Fracturing gas wells From: Musket Date: 18 Nov 14 - 05:15 AM To those of us with no agenda, it produces a wry smile to read "and I only allow facts" when your opinion is there for all to see. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Frack Hydraulic Fracturing gas wells From: Nick Date: 18 Nov 14 - 08:10 AM All views are indeed partial - even when the attempt is to be impartial. I think I learned that in the first week of Sociology. But I still thank gnu for trying to supply a digest of information that starts from an aim a desire for fact rather than bias. I think I can use my own judgement to fill in gaps or areas that appear to be missing by the conscious or unconscious choices that gnu may have (I haven't had a chance to look yet). In our village it is noticeable how many people have already been put off by the group who is trying to push its specific anti- agenda (again they may be dead right or not). Because most people know very little about it they have very little framework to assess what is being said however well meaning. So noticeably people have reacted by assuming that the views of the group must be extreme or odd. Attendances at meetings has plummeted and the reaction at a local council level is not open and welcoming but defensive because of the one-sidedness of the approach. Say you were thinking of taking up smoking. You could find a lot of information which would allow you to make a decision on taking it up (I know it is usually a non rational, peer driven thing rather than a rational 'I have looked at the info and am going to take up smoking'). You wouldn't have to rely on an anti-smoking group to get a balanced view of risk |
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Subject: RE: BS: Frack Hydraulic Fracturing gas wells From: Ed T Date: 18 Nov 14 - 08:41 AM ""You wouldn't have to rely on an anti-smoking group to get a balanced view of risk"" Not knowing one way of another, I tend to lean more, while not fully, toward caution, until I see what I assess as objective (credible) research assessment from unbiased sources. The difficulty is there are few such sources that I have seen. IMO, funding for research often comes from those with a vested interest. Apparently for confidentiality, information on the compounds used are often not publicly available-which fuels more suspicion and limits open and objective discussion and assessment. I suspect if we were in times of dire petroleum need, my viewpoint would differ. Additionally, where the resultant products clearly go toward local reduction on less damaging energy sources, and for a significant local benefit, my leaning may also move from being near the center on the issues. One thing for sure, I am not impacted by any of the significant emotion, protests, lingo, over-reaching arguments, nor marketing hype from either side. In fact, they mostly turn me off. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Frack Hydraulic Fracturing gas wells From: GUEST,Iain Date: 18 Nov 14 - 09:45 AM If you want a balanced view of fracking with some believable statistics try a google search of wellhead integrity and annular pressure build up. Fracking in itself is relatively harmless apart from microseismic events. It is the delivery of the propant material and subsequent gas delivery to and fron the frack zone that can cause severe problems. If well integrity is compromised, then any aquifers that the well passes through may also be compromised. Lack of well integrity is the real issue at stake when fracking. To put everyone's mind at rest independant third party verification of those aspects itemised below is required as a minimum. a)the well plan b)the drilling plan c)the casing and cement program d)the completion program e)ongoing lifetime monitoring until abandonment and final plug setting. Should such an approach be adopted it would allay many people's fears and put the entire process from planning to final lease relinquishment on a much more rigerous, informed, scientific basis. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Frack Hydraulic Fracturing gas wells From: Nick Date: 18 Nov 14 - 12:31 PM I get the feeling that if people were rigorous in their approach then things should be ok - as in many things in life. Unfortunately the ability of people to cut corners and not be rigorous is a quite common recurring theme in history. Especially where money is concerned. The secrecy and lack of openness doesn't fill me with confidence but hopefully that is misplaced |
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Subject: RE: BS: Frack Hydraulic Fracturing gas wells From: Ed T Date: 18 Nov 14 - 01:30 PM The friend of development and public acceptance is open and unbiased research on potential impacts. Unfortunately, many governement agencies are now in the business of promoting development, while at the same time assessing potential development impacts (such as environmental). Government regulators increasingly rely on vested development interests to provide resesrch information on potential impacts, and even to monitor the impacts of their own development projects (voluntary compliance) as they proceed. Cutbacks in government science and technology expertise has increased this industry reliance, and has challenged public trust that governments development decisions are in the local public interest, versus those of a specific development sector. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Frack Hydraulic Fracturing gas wells From: GUEST,sciencegeek Date: 18 Nov 14 - 01:43 PM every technology has its good and bad points... my main issue with the way it is handled is this BS about propriatary info regarding the chemical mix they use to inject. You want to inject the environment- you cough up the info... period! It really is not rocket science. That said, regulators need to closely monitor sites and enforce good management practices... and the way politicians get around that is to cut the funding for monitors, etc. I would prefer that we put the money into low cost geothermal, wind and solar systems geared for individual homeowners/residential users to get them free of the grid, or at least make up a smaller fraction of energy users. That is what will reduce our carbon footprint. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Frack Hydraulic Fracturing gas wells From: Ed T Date: 18 Nov 14 - 02:34 PM ""You want to inject the environment- you cough up the info... period! It really is not rocket science."" That makes sense, as it is public, not private property. We shoukd have gone past the "prospector period" where incentives and quasi-ownership were given to private interests over public resources to encourage non-renewable resource development. Quite often these resources are shipped away to benefit the developer and someone elsewhere, with little financial return to government, and none to local community-where the long-term environmental risk lies. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Frack Hydraulic Fracturing gas wells From: gnu Date: 18 Nov 14 - 03:37 PM "... it produces a wry smile to read "and I only allow facts" when your opinion is there for all to see." There it is. "Discussion." Unsubstantiated discussion and it's not even about the facts that I presented! Implying that my two years of literature review is worthless because of a perceived "opinion" rather than actually taking the time to view the material that I have worked so hard to compile. That's what's wrong with this world. To many lazy, illogical, pompous assholes. When someone spoons feeds the info to them, they spit it out like a spoiled child in an attempt of self important grandstanding. A wry smile? Good for you. Too bad you don't understand the difference between opinion and fact. Too bad the rest of us have to put up with your "opinion". Go research the issue for two years and get back to me on that bullshit eh? I shall await YOUR unbiased analysis with bated breath. Anyone that has anything meaningful to contribute... feel free. As for dealing with twits and trolls, I am done. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Frack Hydraulic Fracturing gas wells From: GUEST,sciencegeek Date: 18 Nov 14 - 03:37 PM since I work for a state agency that regulates mining & fracking, I have noted that when gas prices are low, companies put fracking on the back burner.... it cost $ to pay consultants to file for permits, etc. What I fear is the price goes up, they get their permits and then price drops because of the glut on the market. That's when the bean counters come up with "cost saving" mandates that are short sighted and reflect poor judgement. The first oil wells were in western NY... Wellsville... long before they went looking to the west. Western NY has thousands of small gas wells - many abandoned and not properly plugged. This is reflective of little or no regulation in the past. You need strong monitoring & enforcement to keep them honest and good neighbors. a big multi-national doesn't give a rat's pitutt about anything other than their corporate botton line. I've watched them for some thirty years... I kid you not. |
