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BS: Comment on Kristallnacht.
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BS: Comment on Kristallnacht. |
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Subject: BS: Comment on Kristallnacht. From: Richard Bridge Date: 09 Nov 13 - 06:20 PM I am bothered, yet at the same time I am bothered that I am bothered, about a letter in today's Guardian (9th Nov 2013) http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/08/kristallnacht-threat-racism-fascism What bothers me is that the stated opposition to modern fascism is posited on the words "As Jews". It seems to me that the majority of sufferers from modern fascism and neo-fascism are not Jews. Where are the signatories, or support, from their communities? I am also bothered by the tension between the letter and the Zionist nation-state aspirations in the Eastern Mediterranean area. I am bothered that I am bothered because of the undoubted fact that the Jews (and others, but mostly the Jews) were the victims of the holocaust - which clearly gives those who state their position to be as Jews the position to comment on the holocaust - but I feel an unease about positional enlargement. I am not wedded to my views but invite debate. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Comment on Kristallnacht. From: Jack Campin Date: 09 Nov 13 - 07:21 PM Dunno much about all of those people but Moris Farhi has been concerned with the situation of the Roma, and has been writing about it with Roma approval, for many years. I didn't even realize he was Jewish until just now. Gerry Gable has some peculiar symbiotic relationship with British military intelligence that nobody understands, and seems to be a bit of a control freak. I can see how somebody might appreciate much of the work he's done while wanting to avoid closer involvement. (Again, he doesn't make a big deal of being Jewish). It's a letter making some good points from 19 people who know each other and are mostly too old and too tetchy to lead any sort of mass movement. As such I don't have a problem with it. And it would be tactically difficult for representatives of some other minority to make a point like "remember Kristallnacht but while you're at it think about us as well" - that comes more convincingly from a Jewish speaker. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Comment on Kristallnacht. From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 09 Nov 13 - 07:26 PM I can't recognise anything to make you feel bothered. The letter very clearly addresses the issues you mention there. The occasion for organising the letter is the 75th anniversary of a key atrocity which was specifically directed at the Jewish community in Germany. It is only too appropriate that members of the Jewish community in Britain should use the occasion to call attention to the continuing threat, and to call for solidarity with all those facing the threat or reality of racist and other persecution. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Comment on Kristallnacht. From: michaelr Date: 09 Nov 13 - 09:18 PM As a German citizen (living in the US), I wholeheartedly agree with the letter linked to by the OP. Here is a letter that appeared in my local paper today, written by a Kristallnacht eyewitness. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Comment on Kristallnacht. From: michaelr Date: 09 Nov 13 - 09:29 PM I meant to add that Jews were the primary but not only target of German fascism. The Nazi regime also went after Roma, homosexuals, artists, and anyone else they perceived as "deviant". This world will never be without racist bastards, but with all we know by now, and with all the information that is readily available, at least the excuse that "we didn't know" is no longer valid. We do know, and we do see, and we do recognize wrong when we see it. It is one of the tragic ironies of history that the Zionist state has become exactly that which its founders suffered from. In addition, xenophobia and racism are rearing their heads all across modern Europe, Britain included. It is up to the more enlightened among us to try and counteract the perpetrators. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Comment on Kristallnacht. From: Joe Offer Date: 10 Nov 13 - 12:36 AM The entire last sentence of the letter Richard linked to is, "As Jews we stand together with all communities seeking to combat racism and fascism here and elsewhere." I think that statement is admirable - and, for the most part, true. American and European Jews stand in the forefront of most campaigns for social justice. I suppose the situation gets more complicated in Israel, but when I visited there I had the sense that most Israeli Jews are also strongly in favor of social justice for all. The ideal is pervasive in Judaism. It's true that not all follow the ideal, but that is true in all segments of society. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Comment on Kristallnacht. From: Ebbie Date: 10 Nov 13 - 04:03 PM I am currently reading 'The Third Reich at War' by Richard Evans. It is Volume 3, of a 3-volume series, this one starting with the Nazi decision to invade Poland. It has many segues and twists and turns of simultaneous or over-lapping events. It is painstakingly thorough with tons of footnoting- He quotes speeches, cites letters and articles and follows through detail by detail. It is fascinating, even if stomach churning. When I dated an ex German prisoner of war who had emigrated post-war to the United States, I read stacks of books on Germany, German history and literal blow by blow recounting of events (When it periodically got too heavy for me, I read stacks of science fiction, to clear my palate, so to speak). This book is the most well done of any I have read. |
