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BS: Shame on you SMU
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Subject: BS: Shame on you SMU From: Jack the Sailor Date: 09 Sep 13 - 05:11 PM This is beyond stupid. Did you hear about the Newfie who wandered out of the operating room halfway through the brain transplant? (between taking the old one out and putting the new one in?) He is running Saint Mary's University in Halifax, NS, Canada. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shame on you SMU From: GUEST,HiLo Date: 10 Sep 13 - 08:37 AM So is your Joke....? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shame on you SMU From: Bill D Date: 10 Sep 13 - 12:25 PM The mind boggles.... Of course, it boggles over Spring Break... and hazing (sometime to death)... and refusing to prosecute star athletes (and secretly paying them)... and panty raids... and drinking binges...and................. I dunno... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shame on you SMU From: Big Al Whittle Date: 10 Sep 13 - 01:29 PM not the Musicians Union....for a minute, I thought they'd actually done something besides collect my subs... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shame on you SMU From: Jack the Sailor Date: 10 Sep 13 - 05:27 PM I really expected more response than this. Is it the joke? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shame on you SMU From: Big Al Whittle Date: 10 Sep 13 - 07:19 PM Oh come on Jack. Newfoundland for Godsake....where the polar bears go to die.... Anyway didn't you talk bollocks when you were a student. They're young, they're at college, its their first time out of the igloo.... Cut them a bit of slack! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shame on you SMU From: Bill D Date: 10 Sep 13 - 08:10 PM Slack?? For coming close to advocating crimes? I suppose they have not DONE anything they could be indicted for (at least not in public and officially), but they need counseling.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shame on you SMU From: Jack the Sailor Date: 11 Sep 13 - 02:49 AM Big Al. It happened in Nova Scotia, where the janitors feel superior to the Nfld premier. Pardone est moi Schadenfreude s'il vous plaît. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shame on you SMU From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 11 Sep 13 - 04:51 AM It doesn't matter where these students are, or indeed what one's prejudices may be about certain regions of N America. I agree that youngsters tasting freedom from home restraints may act in a silly way and are usually stridently forceful in their utterances. BUT...I believe one should guide them a little nonetheless, and this sort of thing is unacceptable, not to say odious. I don't suppose many of them would actually perform the acts they chant about, but even shouting certain things can in fact be illegal. Here in UK for instance, racist chanting, sexist insults, anti-gay abuse etc are arrestable offences. Their course organisers or directors of studies, mentors or other responsible bodies should assemble them all and deliver a stern admonishment, pointing out that it isn't amusing or clever to say such things, and to insist that it stops forthwith. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shame on you SMU From: Charmion Date: 11 Sep 13 - 06:26 AM And indeed, that is precisely what happened. Yawn. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shame on you SMU From: GUEST,Ed T Date: 11 Sep 13 - 06:37 AM Yes, Jack, some folks may consider your joke dated and inappropriate, as is the chant. Your use of it is also puzzling, as it has nothing to do with the location of this university? Maybe you need to "refresh" your choice of jokes ;) I agree with others that inappropriateness seems to be common with student led "frosh" events in universities. It is indeed time that leaders in education institutes "get with the program" and take remedial actions and send clear messages to end it. In the case of SMU, the student leader resigned, and the University has launched an investigation and has sent out messages to the public and students. But, it took far too much time for action. What is puzzling is this chant and similar ones seems to have been around SMU and other universities for years. Given changes in society, how this flies under the radar is puzzling. I suspect it is the result of a "hands off" approach to "raunchy" student activities during frosh week. But, it may also be a sign of underlying acceptance of forms of sexual violence at institutes of higher learning in many locals. I note that, yesterday a SMU athletic professor was charged with having sex with a minor - it brings to mind the climate behind sex scandals at Penn Oklahoma State Universities that allowed sexual offenses to occur for years. Here is another example of a similar chant: Similar chants Here is an interesting article, (that I can't link): Program to target sexualized violence September 10, 2013 - 6:36pm By AARON BESWICK Truro Bureau ANTIGONISH — It took three years of hundreds of Saint Mary's University students chanting about sexually assaulting underage girls for anyone to complain, or if someone did, for someone to listen. It took widespread outrage in the media for the administration and student council, the president of which admitted to participating in the chant, to respond last week. And that's a problem for Lucille Harper, Annie Chau and the 80 student and academic leaders coming to Antigonish on Friday to learn how to be the individual that resists this type of herd mentality. "When you look at the (Saint Mary's University) frosh leader saying that (students) didn't even think about the words they were chanting, you see how pervasive sexualized violence is in our culture," said Harper, executive director of the Antigonish Women's Resource Centre & Sexual Assault Services Association. This weekend, student and academic leaders from around Atlantic Canada will come to St. Francis Xavier University to take instruction on how to identify sexualized violence and its promotion and how to intervene in a program hosted by the Women's Resource Centre. Those 80 will be sent back to their separate campuses as instructors of a program called Bringing in the Bystander, in the hopes of creating a broader culture of whistle-blowers. "We all want to live in a safe, happy community where people are treated with respect," said Chau, program co-ordinator at the women's centre. "Everyone in the community is responsible for that." The bystander approach was developed at the University of New Hampshire as a means to reining in the excesses on campus that promote sexual violence. Angela Borges, a lead trainer in prevention innovation at that university, will be in Antigonish on Friday to teach the course. "When you look at movies, music and television you see a lot of themes around sexual violence and rape that trivialize it in some way," said Borges on Monday. "So much so that people take it as normal. Our program asks people to look at that, whether it be in the broader media or people making jokes, and stand up against it." During the program, participants practise intervening in situations, whether it be an intoxicated girl being dragged off from the bar or a chant such as the one at Saint Mary's University that promotes rape. It is about the individual standing up against a massive media machine that promotes extreme sexuality and often trivializes sexual violence, said Borges. She admitted that those are big forces for the individual to oppose. "But it is encouraging to see that now we are starting to recognize the problem and seeking solutions to do something about it." (abeswick@herald.ca) About the Author By AARON BESWICK Truro Bureau |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shame on you SMU From: gnu Date: 11 Sep 13 - 05:01 PM One good thing that will come from this is the examination of "tradition" in such institutions far and wide. I have not watched any of any videos and I do not intend to do so. The news media has flogged this hard enough and I know it is just as Big Al has said it is BUT refer to my first sentence before you gather the hemp. Let SMU and ALL other institutions of this nature clean up "tradition" and do not rub the necks of these mere children in bearing the burdens of your collective moral wrath of self aggrandisement lest you bare your 18 year old soul for the meticulous scrutiny of your peers. Here we are! There we are! We are the boys From LBR! My red ass is RAW! RAW! RAH RAH RAH! Sigma Lambda Beta RHO! Thers is no better WAY TO GO! RAW! RAW! RAH RAH RAH! It is a coed residence now and I doubt if the old chant is still used at all. It struck "fear" (read disrespect and underestimation) into our opponents on the sports fields. The smallest men's residence winning all four major sports in one year??? Those fags from LBR that chanted about liking being fucked up the ass??? WTF? Tradidtion that runs hundreds of years deep dies slowly. Should it die. In this case, of course! Should anyone sit in judgement of mere children, drunk and engaging in tradition? No. SMU is to blame... not the children. Publically shaming SMU is a good thing. Publically shaming minors is a terrible tragedy. Sue me. My red ass is RAW RAW! RAH RAH RAH! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shame on you SMU From: Jack the Sailor Date: 11 Sep 13 - 10:58 PM Minors? at 18? Not in Nfld When I was growing up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shame on you SMU From: gnu Date: 12 Sep 13 - 12:04 PM The age of majority in NB is 19. Same as in NS... and NF. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shame on you SMU From: Steve Shaw Date: 12 Sep 13 - 12:11 PM Huh? Is a "Newfie" joke the same sort of thing as a "thick Paddy" joke or something? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shame on you SMU From: gnu Date: 12 Sep 13 - 01:36 PM Tis indeed... but one may not know of the intelligence, wit and humour most Newfies, Newfs, Newfoundlanders possess. MANY times in my travels, NFers have told me jokes/stroies in which they make fun of themselves but which have a subtle twist requiring a quick mind to understand and, in doing so, reverse the roles. I would expect most from the old countries, such as yourself, understand what I am saying but, alas, I have met many Uppity Canucks, Cowboy Canucks and Lotuslanders who think Newfie jokes are mostly just Newfie jokes. Uppity = Ontario, Cowboy = Saskatchewn + Alberta, Lotusland = British Columbia. Manitobans are all hilarious. Quebecers have little sense of humour and many will kick you in the nuts if you point it out. Maritimers are Newfies that live on the Mainland except for those living in Halifax and Moncton, save those who have emigrated to these cities less than two generations previous. We're still not sure about Cape Bretoners. Sandy... I HAD to add that last comment, just for you. BTW, ye got yer dory up an the chickens cooped? She's gonna howl, buddy! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shame on you SMU From: Jack the Sailor Date: 12 Sep 13 - 02:03 PM Drinking age 19, consensual sex, 17, cigarettes 16. able to sign a binding contract, 18, tried as an adult 17. 18 year olds can be tried for breaking hate speech laws in Newfoundland. Not trying to argue here, just asking if things have changed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shame on you SMU From: GUEST,Ed T Date: 12 Sep 13 - 04:13 PM Not that it matters to the topic- but, It used to be 18 on PEI, but they upped it to 19 - partly because the 18 year olds from NB and NS used to go over there to party, disturb the peace at campgrounds and Motels. My observation is the older Newfoundlanders used to laugh at those jokes, and did not take offense. As with anything, things change and the viewpoint has changed with generation change and increased pride that comes with a better economy, highber education and less isolation. BTW, my experience in residing there for awhile that when many folks in ontario refer to Newfies they refer to folks from all of Atlantic Canada and it normally means you lack intelligence and likely a job. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shame on you SMU From: gnu Date: 12 Sep 13 - 04:35 PM "Not trying to argue here,..." Well... that is not what you are doing... "able to sign a binding contract, 18,..." The age of majority is 19 in NF. That means exactly the opposite. I am gone from this thread. Have fun. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shame on you SMU From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 12 Sep 13 - 05:27 PM I was in Ontario in 1967 and even then people made jokes about 'Newfies' which had to be explained to me. I seem to remember that one regarded many of the Newfoundland population to be of Irish or Scots extraction, which apparently made them stupid. I am half Irish and Scots by origin too, so I bridled at this. At the time I thought it prejudiced and unkind, and I still do. I'm amazed that it still pertains in today's more sensitive climate. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shame on you SMU From: Jack the Sailor Date: 12 Sep 13 - 08:56 PM A lot of people of my generation tried to turn the joke around so that the name "Newfie" is something to be proud of. I haven't been there for a long while. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shame on you SMU From: meself Date: 12 Sep 13 - 09:08 PM Well, it's one of those things .... I don't use the term 'Newfie' since having been 'corrected' some years ago by a Newfoundlander who was and remains a good friend. To me, it was just a chummy term with no negative connotation, but he didn't see it that way. However, he's the only Newfoundlander I've ever encountered who objected to the term, and I've encountered quite a few, many of whom, seemingly unself-consciously, referred to themselves as 'Newfies'. As for the jokes - I think many if not most Canadians are unaware that they reflect any kind of real prejudice. I gather there was - and perhaps is? - some prejudice in Toronto - the '60s would have been the hey-day of such, when lots of Nfldrs were moving there - the kind of thing you seem to get when large numbers of poor immigrants move in anywhere - but I've never met anyone who expressed any kind of ill-feeling toward Nfldrs generally. Maybe Jack can straighten us out on this .... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Shame on you SMU From: Sandy Mc Lean Date: 12 Sep 13 - 09:48 PM LOL Gary! When you live on an Atlantic island you have to always keep your nose pointing into the wind. We get hurricanes and Atlantic storms, some without a name, that can blow you half way to Hell! As Jack states age of consent can be ambiguous, 18 to vote, 19 to drink etc. When I was 17 tha drinking age was 21. However, wink, wink, 17 was often old enough if you had the cash! Laws are strange because during the World Wars the government was also happy to send you into battle to fight and die before you were old enough to vote or drink. I have been staying out of the SMU debate. I argue not against "No means No" but I also feel this is blown out of perspective by some "holier than thou's". For many years Saint Mary's has had a reputation as a party school. Apparently this chant has been used for years at drunken frosh parties, with the knowledge but perhaps not the blessing of the university. Indignation this year only came to a head when it was posted to the net. From the video it seems that female chanters were joining in with gusto. Perhaps they were pressured to do so, but I doubt that is so! Drunken parties do not always fit the politically correctness template, and stupid as their actions may have been I doubt that any really advocated what the words said. It is time for them to move on with their education and hopefully after advancing maturity, this will be but a fading bad memory! Anyone who wants to judge teenagers for stupid mistakes should take a long look in their mirror and if they can look a younger version of themselves in the eye and feel the same they should try walking on water. (this works best when colder than 32F/0C.) |
