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BS: A bit of an existential crisis
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Subject: BS: A bit of an existential crisis From: GUEST,Anon member Date: 01 Jul 13 - 10:52 PM What keeps you going and hopeful for a brighter time when you encounter those times when it is difficult to find meaning to your life beyond the awareness that if you died it would cause a lot of pain in the lives of others who love you, but when you also realize they could and would survive and live with that pain? Not to worry, I am not going to kill myself. I would never do that, aware of the effect on not just the people I love and who love me, but also the impact on others not so intimate but on whom I have impact and who have impact on me. However, I am struggling to find some reason to want to live for myself, not just out of love and duty toward others. I know if I killed myself it would harm others. That is enough to keep me from a deliberate act of suicide. But continuing to live from a sense of duty is a pretty stark existence. From what do you make meaning? |
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Subject: RE: BS: A bit of an existential crisis From: GUEST,DebC w/out cookie Date: 01 Jul 13 - 11:04 PM Joy. Music. Love. Debra |
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Subject: RE: BS: A bit of an existential crisis From: Little Hawk Date: 01 Jul 13 - 11:11 PM I've been through that numerous times, Anon. More times than I can remember. And it can last for weeks or even months. How do I get through it? Well, I just suffer it until it mysteriously starts to go away at some point and things seem brighter again. What causes it? I don't know. Could be weather, light conditions, pollen allergy, or subconscious triggers of some sort from the past. I have some possible theories, but it remains a mystery. Various things can help some. Being outside in nature. Doing physical work or play...specially outside in nature. Being around animals. Being around flowing water...like streams, fountains. Overcoming the lethargy and desire to avoid everything and forcing yourself to get out and do things. Prayer. (this you may be quite skeptical about...if so, never mind) The sense of meaning is something that we generate (or find) internally, I think...or perhaps it comes to us from a greater Source as well, but external stimuli can help kickstart us into finding and activating it sometimes. Also, consider this: that darkness that comes over us during times of depression is an illusion...even though it seems utterly real at the time. It's a total illusion. A sort of dream/nightmare while awake. It's like being hypnotized into believing nothing but what brings you down. This doesn't happen to wild things. It happens to us "civilized" people. If you realize it's not real...that you're being tricked into believing something not real...it can sometimes help. But I can't offer any guarantees. I'm probably as bad at fighting it as you are. |
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Subject: RE: BS: A bit of an existential crisis From: Stilly River Sage Date: 01 Jul 13 - 11:53 PM The clinical answers would be to get psychoanalysis, find a fitness program that helps you generate natural endorphins and work through the pain, or get medication. I prefer the first two to the third, because medication doesn't get to the reason for the depression. Like most people, I've gone through periods like this. I don't remember where I learned the answer that works for me, but I'll share it - you need a plan. Something long term to work toward. Set obtainable goals that are yet ambitious enough to keep you interested and inspired. You're an important part of the Mudcat fabric. Turning to friends here on the forum is a good first step. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: A bit of an existential crisis From: Little Hawk Date: 02 Jul 13 - 12:12 AM I've tried the psychoananysis/counseling path. It is sometimes quite helpful, depending on who you go to...sometimes not...but it's worth a try at any given time. Have unenthusiastically tried medication a couple of times, though I really don't believe in taking that path....and I found it of no help...plus, it can have undesirable side effects. A fitness program is a great idea. Exercise can do wonders. I had a girlfriend once who was very depressive, and I would get her out to play pingpong sometimes over at a college nearby that provided free tables. After an hour of running around playing pingpong, she was absolutely fine, in a good mood, and okay for the next few days. We never kept score, so no pressure to "win" or "lose"...just volleyed and played for fun for a solid hour. That's how I like to play ping pong. Everybody wins. Having pets can also be very helpful, specially dogs and (some) cats, because they are very good company, and they don't judge you. I have some budgies at present. They're cheerful, colorful, amusing, and very active, and just taking care of them each day adds a lot to my day and definitely helps some with depression. Budgies are a cheap, low maintenance pet that's easy to take care of...but you need to get at least 2, because one bird alone in a cage will get lonely and depressed itself unless you make sure to give it lots of company and playtime. They are "flock" animals, and they don't want to be left alone. |
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Subject: RE: BS: A bit of an existential crisis From: Little Hawk Date: 02 Jul 13 - 12:16 AM Then too...playing a musical instrument helps...but if you're depressed you'll figure you don't want to. If you start anyway, regardless of that feeling, you sometimes find that after awhile you do want to, after all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: A bit of an existential crisis From: Ebbie Date: 02 Jul 13 - 01:22 AM In the past I went through a number of years wondering what on earth good I was doing being alive. (Garbled sentence but you get the idea) I don't know how close I came to ending it but the main reason I couldn't seriously entertain the idea was because I recognized that it would be giving permission to others among my family and friends to do the same, and I couldn't do that. Have you read William Styron's 'Darkness Visible'? He went through a couple of years of unbearable depression; that is one book I will always keep. Changing my routine or simply downsizing my world as needed works for me. I can't tell you how many people and situations I have left behind but fresh scenery and new people and new activities recharge my batteries. Of course, I am a single person so I find it easier to do than some might. Twenty five years ago I left Oregon for Alaska where I knew nobody and have never regretted the move. Sometimes I still get into a funk- and then I downsize. Just staying home more helps me. I used to go to every concert around, for instance, but I discovered I don't need to do that. On occasion I regret it that I didn't get to a particular concert - Arlo Guthrie comes to mind - but that is rare. Oh, and in the past, I found a new person to fall in love with. I don't risk that anymore.:) Good luck and new happiness to you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: A bit of an existential crisis From: Amos Date: 02 Jul 13 - 01:30 AM Change of environment. STarting and completing any task no matter how minor it may seem, and then starting and completing another. Find someone to help in a small way and help them. Rinse and repeat. |
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Subject: RE: BS: A bit of an existential crisis From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 02 Jul 13 - 06:46 AM Guest, I'm very sorry that you are suffering in this way. You mention 'people who love me' and others who 'also have an impact on me', so I assume you aren't entirely alone in life. You don't say if this feeling has been with you all your life or is a recent affliction, or whether it's a result of some trauma or tragedy?. I'd agree with some of the other posters who recommend an anti-depressant programme of some sort. There are conditions where lack of serotonin can cause depression when everything in one's life is fine, and medication can sort this out. I have a dear friend who has similar distress, and she focuses on 'the next ten minutes' which helps a bit. I also wonder if you're eating a balanced, regular diet? As for me, (in answer to your original question about what gives life meaning) for me it's God, my husband, my friends and neighbours, trying to help others in small ways, Nature and wildlife, my garden, my village, and little daft hobbies such as sewing, reading and painting etc. I feel for you very much and hope you may find a way through this. Eliza x |
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Subject: RE: BS: A bit of an existential crisis From: akenaton Date: 02 Jul 13 - 06:57 AM Keep clear of "shrinks"......they're far madder than you or me or even LH :0) Great advice about doing something creative, either music or painting or writing ....I bet you could tell some interesting tales, and you are obviously very literate. If you're a member here, there are some great folks who anyone would be glad to have as friends. I find as I get older and look at the society we are creating most of my hope and optimism is slowly draining away, so you are not alone....listen to Little Hawk who knows more about the meaning of life than anyone I have ever met....good luck...Ake. |
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Subject: RE: BS: A bit of an existential crisis From: jacqui.c Date: 02 Jul 13 - 08:08 AM One of the first things that might help is to recognise that these feelings are caused by depression and that that can be a clinical problem. As SRS and LH both say medication is not always the answer. Kendall, after losing part of his vocal cord, and the beautiful voice he once had, went into a depressive fit that lasted quite a while. He had, and still is, prone to these episodes but this one was very bad. We knew the reason for it but that did not really help to counter it. What did was reviving an old hobby - restoration of a vintage car. We found a Model A Ford in need of quite a lot of TLC and he spent most of one winter restoring it to its former glory, with lots of cursing and tool throwing brought into the mix. It can be difficult even to consider trying something like that when you are in the middle of such a 'black dog'. Is there anyone to whom you can confide these feelings you are having and who might be able to help you work out a way to get past them? Sometimes just talking about it can help, with the right person. One of the things that helps me when I get a downer is my session teaching needlecrafts at our local women's shelter. I can be feeling totally down before going there and come out two hours later on a high. Sometimes finding a way to be useful to others can raise a depression over time, although it can, again be difficult to get started. Good thoughts coming to you from Maine, anyway. |
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Subject: RE: BS: A bit of an existential crisis From: Stilly River Sage Date: 02 Jul 13 - 10:07 AM The beauty of "the talking cure," Ake, is that the process stays with you after your counselling sessions are completed. I found in college I was feeling very low, and spend some months speaking with a psychiatrist - even years later I could think through some of those conversations and address current situations and (usually via journalling - which is something you can do, starting today, if you want to start sorting out your feelings) express and work through the problem. Ake's experience shouldn't condemn the entire field. I like Ebbie's remarks about downsizing and finding a few new people to add to your circle of friends. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: A bit of an existential crisis From: Jack Campin Date: 02 Jul 13 - 10:22 AM Don't dismiss medication. Antidepressants are probably the only reason I'm alive now. The only thing talking stuff ever did for me was distract me by getting me incandescently furious that such a bunch of manipulative incompetent turkeys got paid to pretend to be therapists. |
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Subject: RE: BS: A bit of an existential crisis From: Little Hawk Date: 02 Jul 13 - 10:58 AM They clearly work for some people, Jack. As for the therapists, I've had one or two good ones in the past, and one who was pretty wacky and needed some therapy herself, in my opinion. My main regret is all the money I spent listening to her! ;-) Mind you, she was good on some stuff, but was obsessed with a particular couple of issues that applied to her, and she figured they MUST apply to everyone else too. Not so. Amos - Well said. You were brief, to the point, and right on. |
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Subject: RE: BS: A bit of an existential crisis From: Bill D Date: 02 Jul 13 - 11:02 AM I take meaning from the very mystery of BEING. I am HERE...in the enormity of the Universe, on this tiny planet, *I* can contemplate it. In life, there is input & output. Output is what you describe as doing things for others and sharing their lives. It is also producing 'something'...whether music, food, ...or in my case, stuff made of wood. Output can be rewarding, but it can also be a lot of work and lead to frustration. Input is in many ways much easier.... just reading, listening to music, looking at Nature, ....and my special interest, finding humor in the contradictions OF *life*. I collect cartoons about 'meaning'... and read online cartoons almost daily. Since you say you are a member, click on your own name and revisit some of the old threads in which you have happily been involved and soak in the waves of words from friends & acquaintances you have shared ideas with..... and if *I* am one of them, please don't hesitate to contact me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: A bit of an existential crisis From: Little Hawk Date: 02 Jul 13 - 11:14 AM Good stuff, Bill. You're really quite a spiritual man, I think...whether you realize it or not. ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: A bit of an existential crisis From: Larry The Radio Guy Date: 02 Jul 13 - 12:40 PM So many sources of inspiration in this thread. I can identify with anon member's existential crisis in so many ways. Throughout all of my youth and middle age there was that intensity of needing meaning, and feeling suicidal when I experienced the 'void'. Even now as I think back I realize that my life, despite that, was pretty good. I recently went through a huge traumatic loss....and I'm surprising myself at how resilient I am. Bill's statement is certainly inspirational: "I take meaning from the very mystery of BEING. I am HERE...in the enormity of the Universe, on this tiny planet, *I* can contemplate it". One could post that on one's fridge as a reminder. And, surprisingly, I find Little Hawk's statement of "How do I get through it? Well, I just suffer it until it mysteriously starts to go away at some point and things seem brighter again" also inspirational. I find that the most energizing meanings now are in the small things, and in my own 'curiosity'. I call it 'small wonders'. "I wonder if anybody has responded to my mudcat post" "I wonder what's next on my 'random play' on my car stereo" "I wonder who is going to show up for the jam session today and what they're going to play". "I wonder what can of responses are going to come out of this existential crisis thread". And lots of "I wonders" from reading great novels. So so much of my own meaning of life comes from not knowing----and not knowing if I'll find out or not. |
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Subject: RE: BS: A bit of an existential crisis From: Little Hawk Date: 02 Jul 13 - 12:46 PM Yes, life is a continual process of discovery...if one sees it that way. And if so, then it's an amazing experience. |
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Subject: RE: BS: A bit of an existential crisis From: Larry The Radio Guy Date: 02 Jul 13 - 12:47 PM Here's something else that haunts me---and creates a certain ....I wouldn't say 'hope', but more like an acknowledgment of the existence of a 'brighter time' in the now. It's a long video. And while I don't think the 'theory' is necessarily any more credible or accurate than anybody's religion, I love contemplating the idea: "there really are very large numbers of versions of you that really exist". It's about Hugh Everett, a founder of "Parallel Universe" theory....and a 'tour' of this theory by the founder's son, Mark Oliver Everett, who was also struggling with being alive (as reflected in the first couple amazing albums by his group, The Eels) Judging from his later book (Things The Grandchildren Should Know) and his subsequent recordings, he seems to have weathered this existential crisis well. Parallel Worlds Parallel Lives |
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Subject: RE: BS: A bit of an existential crisis From: GUEST Date: 02 Jul 13 - 01:14 PM Don't discount medication. It worked for me, in conjunction with counselling. The medication jolted me, because while I was on it, I had a moment of realization: My depression abated, and I understood for the first time in my life what "normal" was. |
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Subject: RE: BS: A bit of an existential crisis From: Midchuck Date: 02 Jul 13 - 02:46 PM My grandfather had a little placque on his basement family room wall that said "Allah does not deduct from the allotted time of Man, those hours spent in fishing." My Grandfather spend a LOT of hours in fishing, and he died at 96 3/4. So it worked for him. I don't fish. But I think there are a number of things that Allah does not deduct the time spent in, from your allotted time, if they are things that you find work for you. Mine are: Exercise (preferably aerobic, preferably outdoors). Running when I was younger, mostly fast walking or trail hiking now. Skiing, both downhill and cross country, in the winter. Music. Especially playing and singing, but listening, too. Reading escapist stuff - mostly science fiction/fantasy. Surfing the web and providing my opinions on matters I know nothing about to people who aren't interested. Fishing, Hunting (the hunt, not the killing), gardening, seem to work for a lot of people, though I can't get excited about them. A drink, or two, before supper is also good, IF you are one of those who can stop there. Peter. |
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Subject: RE: BS: A bit of an existential crisis From: GUEST,Guest Anon Member Date: 02 Jul 13 - 09:59 PM Thank you, Mudcat community. |
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Subject: RE: BS: A bit of an existential crisis From: mg Date: 02 Jul 13 - 10:55 PM it is something i never worry about..whether my life has meaning...because years ago i paid for a water well in chad..and for the last twenty or thirty years that village has had water..i hope...i think...i planned to do another one every few years but have not been able to but even one has relieved me of any feelings that i haven't done anything etc. |
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Subject: RE: BS: A bit of an existential crisis From: Amos Date: 02 Jul 13 - 11:21 PM Talking cures can be very effective IF the right question is posed at the right time. Usually it isn't. When it isn't, one swims around in clouds of signficance without being able to spot where the real roots of difficulty are to be found. But re-establishing your own intentional control over parts of your environment--even if just emptying ashtrays or rearranging the laundry--will start to bring some order and a sense of causation. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: A bit of an existential crisis From: GUEST,SJL Date: 02 Jul 13 - 11:28 PM Dog. |
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Subject: RE: BS: A bit of an existential crisis From: VirginiaTam Date: 03 Jul 13 - 11:00 AM Speaking from personal experience, I cannot add anything positive or hopeful to this thread. All I can do is I wish that you (and I) feel better soon. |
