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BS: Calgary by-election 2012
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Subject: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: gnu Date: 27 Nov 12 - 07:10 AM I was surprised to hear that the Cons only beat the Libs by a thousand votes. I was very surprised to hear the the Greens garnered so many votes. BUT I was SHOCKED to hear that less than 30% voted... WTF? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: GUEST,999 Date: 27 Nov 12 - 09:42 AM It was Trudeau's big mouth and the Grey Cup that gave the seat to the damned Conservatives. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: meself Date: 27 Nov 12 - 01:24 PM Only 30% voted, and of those, 37%, I believe it was, voted Conservative. You do the math - a ringing endorsement. But if the other three parties won't swallow their pride and do what most Canadians want them to - unite - well, .... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: Jack the Sailor Date: 27 Nov 12 - 01:32 PM Its a Parliament. The Conservatives have a majority with or without that seat. In the grand scheme of things, does it matter? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 27 Nov 12 - 02:30 PM True Canadian values won out in Calgary Centre and in Ontario Durham. Calgary Centre had a lot of candidates, and in that district, carisma can trumps political leaning. If I remember correctly, it once went Liberal. Trudeau turned off most of us here in Alberta, with his whining leftwing remark about Canada not doing well "...because Albertans control our community and socio-democratic (a commie word) agenda." Alberta is a prosperous Canadian province because it hews to the true Canadian values of enterprise and entreneurship. Those values should "control" our community. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: gnu Date: 27 Nov 12 - 03:46 PM Not when Granny needs a new hip, Q. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: Jack the Sailor Date: 27 Nov 12 - 03:55 PM Alberta is a prosperous Canadian Province because it sits on oceans of oil and has never given back to the country in proportion to its wealth, happily allowing Ontario and BC to pick up the slack and calling them "suckers" in the bargain. Is Alberta's official welfare policy still a bus ticket to Vancouver? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: gnu Date: 27 Nov 12 - 09:46 PM JtS... only after the free health care that is very good comapred to Down Home. Granny on a gurney in the hall for days and maybe weeks here. Q is cool and don't care about the rest of us... just like The Hair. NO idea what we get stuck with and don't care. "Let the Eastern bastards freeze in the dark." is STILL alive and well. Je me souviens, moi. And ALL Canucks should. Not applicable in rich provinces... check you local pricks for availability. We got private MRI clinics opening here with better MRIs than the PROVINCE can afford. If Granny can't afford an MRI, wtf, she's old, eh? Who cares about Granny? SICK! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: meself Date: 27 Nov 12 - 09:56 PM The rich always feel that they deserve even more and that the poor deserve even less. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 27 Nov 12 - 10:12 PM Equalization payments, 2012-2013: Quebec receives- $7.4 billion Ontario receives- $3.3 billion Manitoba receives- $1.7 billion New Brunswick receives- $1.5 billion Nova Scotia receives- $1.3 billion PEI receives- $330 million BC, AL, SK, BC, and NL receive no handout. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: Sandy Mc Lean Date: 27 Nov 12 - 10:23 PM Q, as I told you before Alberta was bought and paid for by Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Quebec and Ontario. It brought nothing into the Confederation of Canada in its own right! Read our history! We get a bit sick of the equalization payment shit from Alberta because the money comes from Ottawa, not Alberta. Here we pay income tax as you do and contribute to Ottawa's purse as well! Sorry for my rant!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: Beer Date: 27 Nov 12 - 10:35 PM I said before in some other thread that Trudeau should have come to Quebec and run for Chariest position. He would have my vote. No, he wants the big pie not a piece of it. Well it backfired on him and I don't think he will recover. "Go Marc Garneau!!" Adrien |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: Sandy Mc Lean Date: 27 Nov 12 - 10:49 PM Adrien, Trudeau can take The Hair in any one on one but the split vote with the NDP creates a big problem. That said an NDP, Liberal coalition would send the Reform based Conservatives to the shitcan of history. If Trudeau and Mulcair can broker a deal before the next election it may require Trudeau to be satisfied with the deputy job for now, but his time will come! Alberta is a lost political cause and it benefits neither to kiss their arse! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: Beer Date: 27 Nov 12 - 11:35 PM Understand sandy, but do you think that the NDP and LIB.. would ever join forces? I don't think so. I sure hope they do. Three party politics I don't like. I know there are others but i am speaking of those that are in the forefront. ad. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: GUEST,999 Date: 28 Nov 12 - 11:04 AM "BC, AL, SK, BC, and NL receive no handout." The equalization payments are NOT handouts. They are equalization payments. History of the payments here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 28 Nov 12 - 01:06 PM No matter how you slice it, it still turns revenue over to the lesser provinces. Not much point in contributing an unsigned blog. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: meself Date: 28 Nov 12 - 01:42 PM Just as the fish and potatoes sent from the Maritimes to Alberta during the Depression were revenue turned over from the greater provinces. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: Jack the Sailor Date: 28 Nov 12 - 01:45 PM I like that BC doesn't get handouts twice as many times as the others. The "lesser" provinces. Look at you better than people who are not sitting on a sea of oil and are not the biggest polluters in the history of mankind for a few extra bucks. You must be so fracking proud!! Ontario was the engine of the Canadian economy for more than a hundred years. They paid Alberta's bills long before the oil boom. Paid for the railways. Sent you the Mounties paid for the wars, sent you The Hair, now they are a "lesser" province. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: meself Date: 28 Nov 12 - 01:54 PM An explanation of the source of equalization funds, cut & pasted from the site linked by 999: While some talk about money being transferred from one province to another, in fact, all the money for equalization comes from Canadian taxpayers across the country and is shared among the less wealthy provinces. Equalization is paid by the federal government to provincial governments and does not include any sharing of provincial revenues among provincial governments. Equalization funding is paid out from the federal government's general revenues. The general revenues are the revenues the federal government collects from a wide variety of sources including: the federal personal income tax paid by all taxpayers in the country, the federal corporate income tax paid by all businesses in the country, GST revenue, revenue from customs and duties, resource revenue from federal sources, the federal portion of gasoline, alcohol and other taxes, etc. Provinces keep all the money they raise from resources and all their other tax bases. No provincial government funds go to support equalization. There is no special "equalization tax" or levy paid to the federal government by richer provinces such as Alberta, and even if the equalization program were cancelled tomorrow, this would not affect how much money the federal government collects from individuals and businesses in the forms of taxes, duties, etc. This can't be stressed enough: no province "pays into equalization" – all individual taxpayers and businesses pay into the federal government's general revenue fund, from which equalization is just one of many programs funded. In terms of federal government revenue collection by province, it is important to note that the federal government collects tax revenue in the provinces, not from the provinces. This distinction may appear subtle, but it has important implications. To say that the federal government collects taxes from provinces suggests either that the level of federal taxes people pay is related to their province of residence, or that the fiscal capacity of individual provincial governments is affected by how much federal tax is collected in their jurisdiction. Neither of these statements is true, however. In fact, from the point of view of federal revenue collection, the very notion of "provinces" is irrelevant. Federal taxes do not differ by province; all Canadians pay federal tax at the same set of rates regardless of where they live. Granted, Ottawa does collect more money in the form of personal and corporate incomes taxes, GST, etc. in provinces with larger populations and stronger economies than it does in provinces with smaller populations and weaker economies. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: gnu Date: 28 Nov 12 - 04:55 PM Jack? I have been saying for years, as Sandy has also said again above, it was Eastern Canada's INCLUDING Maritime Canada's wood, wind and water that built Western Canada. Q... "No matter how you slice it, it still turns revenue over to the lesser provinces." That arrogant statement further shows your lack of compassion and your ignorance of Canadian history and present and such looms over OUR collective future. Such an attitude is the biggest threat there is to all Canadians. It's a far bigger threat than PQ separation (that attitude being one of the driving forces of the P.Q.'s desire for separation) which the West seems to think is a terrible thing... unless they can make a buck off it. Seriously, your attitude makes my blood boil. Maybe the requirements for Canuck citizenship should be as strict as where you emmigrated from... maybe you would be a better Canuck than your statements and attitude portray you to be. Yes... I AM very pissed off by what you said. You don't own the oil. Yer just closer to it. $ isn't everything. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: GUEST,999 Date: 28 Nov 12 - 05:32 PM This ain't an unsigned blog, Q. Gov't of Canada site. One of the things I love about Canada is that, along with nationalized health care. At different times in our history as a country, some provinces have had it tougher than others. I lived in Alberta for about thirty years and Quebec for about twenty-eight, the NWT for two and the USA for five. I've always felt it important that we help our neighbours when they need it and take the help when we do. During the ice storms that hit eastern Canada, many Albertans (despite the 'Let the eastern bastards freeze in the dark' remark from asshole Ralph Klein who was then mayor of--guess where?--Calgary) sent generators and other implements that would be of use to people in Ontario and Quebec. Trucking companies got the goods through, and imo that's the way things should work in this country and this world. This ain't about you and ME ME ME; it's about us. Gnu, I'm with you 100%. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: GUEST,999 Date: 28 Nov 12 - 05:56 PM And meself, and Jack and Sandy. AND, I know damned well Beer feels much the same. This country would not exist if it were not for Newfoundland, the Maritimes and Lower/Upper Canada, so named because of geography, not class. It was not the fault of Newfoundland that the fishing industry disappeared. Those people would give you their last meal for fuck's sake. I think much the same can be said of many Canadians. Often the 'wars' between the provinces are like a family feud, but it's a family feud, and usually there's not much room for someone who dislikes the way it works to drive a wedge (and that's not aimed at you, Q, because I know you're better than that). When generators were being scrounged and loaded to trucks with blankets and foods, some of the guys I was firefighting with, including a few self-pronounced rednecks, were of the idea that no one should freeze or go hungry, at least not in this country. I knew mechanics who'd never said a good thing about Ontario or Quebec who worked late into the night to fix machinery that ended up keeping some eastern 'bastard' warm. I expect that if the reverse ever happens (as it did in the Red River floods), the east will return the favour. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: gnu Date: 28 Nov 12 - 09:33 PM The East will always help out. Always did. There will be a tree lighting ceremony broadcast on TV here soon. A tree in Boston. Every year, a tree from NS is sent to Boston. It is with great pride that some Nova Scotian pine is chosen to be donated... a mighty pine... for this. When Halifax harbour exploded, it was the Boston States that helped out. Our natural trading partners and brothers. If you knew any history, Q, you would understand the hardship Atlantic Canada endured disregarding this natural trade route in favour of humping shit over the Appalachain Mountains to build THE WEST. We in Atlantic Canada have far more in common with the Easterners of the US Atlantic Seaboard than the smug "I am okay Jack." attidude of Western Canucks. Same deal with Uppity Canucks. Whaddya YOU got? Oil until 2035 when the US becomes energy self-sufficient? When that comes around, whaddya got? Potash? Guess what. We got potash up the ass right here in the "lessest" province and we are sellin it now by the shipload. NF and NS have natgas up the ass and so do we. We got iron... uranium... gold... diamonds... nickel... lumber... fish... You got China (and BC ain't too happy about THAT, are they?). Good luck with that shit. Ya think the pipeline is goin west? Not likely. You just wanna hope we still will use your oil come 2035. That kinda depends on how you treat us over the next 20 years. We have enough peat bogs here to bury you Western Bastards in. Well over 400 years of fuel supply to heat OUR homes while yer pipeline rusts if you create the need ya greedy... aggghhhh! We may be "have-not" in your opinion... we may be a drain on your dollar in your opinion right now... but, buddy, can you spare a dime to help us ALL out? Your call. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: gnu Date: 28 Nov 12 - 10:15 PM When I said "Same deal with Uppity Canucks." I meant that they have the same opinion of The West Attitude, and I especially include PQ on a technical point, and they have the same options down the road. Maybe even moreso with all the fresh water they have and the soon to be built system to deliver it to our and their natural trading partners. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: GUEST,999 Date: 28 Nov 12 - 10:44 PM IMO, that's a mistake. The receivers of whom you speak have NEVER taken an inch without taking a yard. No way says I. I was gonna say "Fuck 'em" but decided not to. They don't own us yet, and I'd prefer to be shot than be subservient. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: Jack the Sailor Date: 29 Nov 12 - 12:11 AM I think it is fair to say that Canadians have always helped one another out. In the ice storms though, I think that a lot more help came from New England than Alberta and rightly so, they were a half day's drive away. And Canada and the US are the best of neighbors. Likewise I heard very inspiring stories about Canadian crews during "superstorm Sandy." Let's just say the were never asked to do anything they could not handle with ease, experience and enthusiasm. But to see "Q" calling Ontario an "lesser" province... Disgusting. Don't you have a sense of history there in Alberta? Or is it just "what have you done for me this week?" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: ollaimh Date: 29 Nov 12 - 12:56 AM there were comentator kooks like tom flanagan, foisting the old lie that trudeau hurt the alberta oil industry. they ignore that the price of oil droped in half in thae six month period when they started making this cvlaim. the usuall lies about the east stealing their money. they are rich and are wasting their money, while blaming others for their problems. when they grow up out their the oil will be gone and they will live in a toxic wastland. its a shame the greens and liberals didn't form a coalition. we need run off election like in france. the top two candidates have a second vote , so no one can get to parliament without a majority. the reallyy hypocritical thing is joam ccrokatt running for the party running the biggest deficits in history, while pretending to be anti deficit. the tories increases federal spending by a tird in their first wo years in office, before the recession , and lowered taxes, creating the present permantent deficit that tories always produce. we will have to wait for the liberal to get back on track financially |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: Charmion Date: 29 Nov 12 - 06:01 AM Usually by-elections get a high turn-out and plenty of fringe candidates, and they often produce fringe results. What happened in Calgary? Did everyone come down with football fever? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 29 Nov 12 - 11:22 AM HE, He. We love to get the easterners stirred up. Calgary Centre voted Conservative; the same as the other Calgary ridings, captained by our peerless leader in Calgary Southwest, The Right Honourable Stephen Harper. Environmental damage? Mining for asbestos (which is finally being phased out after contaminating North American buildings, and leaving toxic holes), iron ore, aluminum, etc., and more recently, diamonds (16 locations in the Victor area, to be open pit mined, large area of diamond pipes in NWTs), is leaving a much bigger footprint than mining the oil sands in Alberta-Saskatchewan, which makes money for the federal government as well as those two provinces. Those who survived the depression in Saskatchewan and are still alive remember the "help" from the east, especially the fish which was so dry and salty it couldn't even be fed to the hogs. Their remarks about federal assistance can still turn the air blue. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: meself Date: 29 Nov 12 - 12:00 PM Well, it's nice to know that the sacrifices my poverty-stricken relatives and their poverty-stricken neighbours made in order to help out the westerners during the Depression were so appreciated. That confirms my impression, anyway. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: gnu Date: 29 Nov 12 - 04:12 PM Q... "Those who survived the depression in Saskatchewan and are still alive remember the "help" from the east, especially the fish which was so dry and salty it couldn't even be fed to the hogs. Their remarks about federal assistance can still turn the air blue." Now, that truly is arrogant as it is grasping at straws. YOU weren't there and you don't even know that any of your RECENT neighbours that tell you that bald-faced lie are either stunned as me arse or actually lying thru their teeth. Ya don't feed salt fish to anyone or anything if it's not freshened. JAYSUS MAN! Apparently, da girls you goes wit ain't ever eat no fishcakes. I do up a batch at LEAST twice a month and me zon, me zon, some shockin good eh! And... wait for it... I makes em wit SALT Fish (salt COD to dose what don't know "fish" is "cod"). Good lord! I become more amazed at the lack of knowledge of Westerners by the post! Don't Westerners freshen their salt beef and pork before they cook it? Fookin odd ta this little black duck! BTW, fishcakes is easy... recipe... freshen yer fish, boil it fer ten minutes, add 2 cups a mashed spuds to a pound a fish, make yer cakes and fry em. Apparently, them Westerners could had some bacon with that too. Unless they didn't know fuck all about how to salt meat. I am still shakin me 'ead. Ye lads think ye can sell yer oil willy-nilly an do without a hand if it all goes to shit an yees don't even know enough to freshen salt fish? Fuck me! Next thing, after China owns your (OUR!) ass, yer gonna tell us yer sellin yer meat processing plant to some place like Brazil on accounta youse are too stunned as me arse to run em safely. Wouldn't surprise me a bit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: gnu Date: 29 Nov 12 - 04:32 PM Ya konw. In the end of it all, I don't wanna seem "tenacious" for lack of a better term or all THAT upset. I realize that Q has a different outlook and a different set of values and a different history that shaped those traits and beliefs. I just hope that a better understanding of why SO many Canucks hate the Conservatives get across to readreds. It's far more complicated than anything that could be discussed in detail in this forum. In the the end of it all, I side with compassion and doing the right thing. It's that simple. Once more, money is just paper. People are more important. Sorry, Q, if I have taken you to task if it was not deserved. Your post are always enlightened, enlightening and provide food for thought. But, ya just might wanna bone up on the history of the real Canada before the likes of Mulroney and Harper destroy it... more than they already have. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: Charmion Date: 30 Nov 12 - 08:27 AM Actually, I don't know that any of us vary all that much in values and attitude from coast to coast. We're all prickly and proud as Pharoah, and vain of our own opinions. Barry Broadfoot practically invented the genre of oral history in Canada with a book about the Great Depression called "Ten Lost Years". I read it as a young adult, and it just wrung my heart. Among the stories I remember best was a reminiscence from a woman who grew up near Lethbridge, Alberta, in Palliser's Triangle, about how her parents managed to heat one room of the house by filling the firebox of the kitchen range with cow corn too desiccated by drought to make silage. The same book had equally heart-breaking accounts of bare survival in rural New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, where people got by on what they could catch and what they could grow in their stony little gardens. Point being, everybody had it tough in Canada during the Depression, and yet people in every part of the country tried to help their friends and neighbours to the best of their ability, which in those times often wasn't much. At 58, I am two generations on from the Great Depression. Everyone in my family who lived through it as an adult is dead, and those who are left were tiny children then and are very, very old now. Prejudices people of our age nourish from Depression times are just that -- prejudices, arising from harsh realities lived long before we were born. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 30 Nov 12 - 02:19 PM I started work in Canada in 1949, and had several Saskatchewan workmates, born in the 1920s, whose reaction to eastern "help," as I said, was unprintable. Ar age 89, I know that youngsters like gnu only know the depression from what they read. Times were tough in Alberta, but Aberhart and his Social Credit party's leftist policies failed or were voided by the courts; under Manning, with oil and agriculture coining money, Social Credit went to the right of policies of the present Conservative government. Finall, WW2 industrial growth re-started American and Canadian prosperity. At present, the Wild Rose is the new party in Alberta, but its far right stance is a step too far for most Albertans. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: Charmion Date: 30 Nov 12 - 02:29 PM I've always been fascinated by Alberta politics: almost as weird as Quebec. Extremism is no surprise in hard times, but in Alberta it also seems to emerge when the economy is good and getting better. Is it that the memory of the hard times makes people determined not to let anyone else get their snout in when the gravy train starts to roll? Just askin' ... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: meself Date: 30 Nov 12 - 03:19 PM "WW2 industrial growth re-started American and Canadian prosperity" Wow - that sounds like government spending an awful lot of money for the common good - Albertans must have hated that. (Everyone knows, of course, that in eastern Canada the Depression was just one big party. Oh, the stories us youngsters grew up on of all the high-rollin' hijinx of the Depression years - heck, it seems our folks had almost as good a time in the Depression as during World War II - endless food, endless money, no worries, non-stop laughs .... Now if they had realized that their salt-fish and potatoes weren't good enough for the westerners, they wouldn't have hesitated to send trainloads of steak and wine, I'm sure. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: gnu Date: 30 Nov 12 - 04:02 PM Q... "Ar age 89, I know that youngsters like gnu only know the depression from what they read." Well, in my case, from what my mother and father and their mothers and fathers and ALL my uncles and aunts told me and taught me. I started working my ass off at 12 years old because of how I was raised by them and because of what I learned from them. You started working in Canada in 1949 and you and yer Westerner friends still don't know not to eat salt fish without freshening it? Smells fishy to me. Ask anyone from Down East how to cook any salt meat... there are a shitload of them next door to you. They built Alberta before you arrived. I am sure they would say, "Yer welcome." You just keep votin fer China, eh? That's me done. I got nuthin new to add, fer now, anyway. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Calgary by-election 2012 From: Sandy Mc Lean Date: 30 Nov 12 - 04:39 PM My aunt and her husband were Saskatchewan wheat farmers when the drought put their farm under She was a school teacher who went west to work and fell in love with a local farmer. Being a hardy gal from Cape Breton she would have known very well how to prepare salt cod. My parents were living in the USA (Boston States)at the start of the depression and my oldest brother was born there. Then my father lost his job they moved back to the family farm in Cape Breton. In Cape Breton they had no money but they could at least grow their own food and fish the seas so nobody went hungry. Three of my fathers sisters married and remained in the USA, but in a way I am grateful that due to the depression I was born and raised on the isle of Cape Breton. Except for a few years when my work called me elsewhere I have lived and raised my family here and it is here that I will end my days! I am not overly fond of salt cod because I had seen it too often as a youth, but its protein grew me to be a man. The culture and music of the island ingrained my soul and it made me who I am! As strange as it may seem I am grateful for the depression! |
