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BS: Angular Merkel
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Subject: BS: Angular Merkel From: Big Al Whittle Date: 09 Oct 12 - 07:30 AM I notice the BBC news have started calling her Angular. At first I thought it was an unkind reference to her womanly curves, then I realised it was the snooty old BBC up to its tricks again. What it is trying to express is that WE KNOW GERMANS PRONONOUNCE ANGELA LIKE THIS - AND YOU SILLY THICK OLD PLEBS WON'T REALISE THAT - NOT BEING INYELLIGENT LIKE WOT WE ARE. Anyway, I bet she looks good on the dancefloor.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: Dave Hanson Date: 09 Oct 12 - 08:06 AM I always thought it was Anglia Merkel. Dave H |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: Jack the Sailor Date: 09 Oct 12 - 08:10 AM angela merkel pronounced in German. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: TheSnail Date: 09 Oct 12 - 08:25 AM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEU4WDZII5Q |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 09 Oct 12 - 12:34 PM Insulting and infantile to make fun of a foreign pronunciation. Unfortunately, too many of us do it, a hangover from childhood. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: VirginiaTam Date: 09 Oct 12 - 01:33 PM Was it Jeremy Hardy on News Quiz (BBC Radio 4) week before last, when Sandy Toksvig compared herself to "Angular" Merkel (they were discussing something to do with maths and Germany I believe) that he said something about her (Sandy) being more rhomboid? Oh dear. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 09 Oct 12 - 01:42 PM Reported over here as well. "Oh dear." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: Big Al Whittle Date: 09 Oct 12 - 09:18 PM Its not really mispronouncing foreign words and names that I'm talking about Its that snotty - I know more than you do - sort of thing. We had ateacher at our school, who insisted in calling the Himalayas, the Himmahlias. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 09 Oct 12 - 10:52 PM Hima' leya or Hi' malaya. Sanskrit, hima (snow) + alaya (dwelling). Both accepted in most geographical lists of names. Your teacher was not incorrect. Obviously your teacher is expected to know more than his pupils. Whether he does or not is another matter. And the BBCNews uses "An'-geh-la. They are quite good with names. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: GUEST,Abdul sans cookie Date: 10 Oct 12 - 04:06 AM Blimey Q, you must be a treat to live with! Are you saying we shouldn't take the piss out of the French? Al |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: Big Al Whittle Date: 10 Oct 12 - 04:12 AM Yeh, but its that middle class thing....that attitude! Don't you really get what I'm talking about? The vast majority of English people figure thay can pronouce Himalayas and Angela. Jusy like the all the folkies thought they knew the song Byker Hill - till the Carthy/Swarbrick version. Raymond Chandler called it playing false with language - drawing attention to the language , rather than the meaning. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: Rob Naylor Date: 10 Oct 12 - 04:45 AM Big Al: We had ateacher at our school, who insisted in calling the Himalayas, the Himmahlias. Q: Hima' leya or Hi' malaya. Sanskrit, hima (snow) + alaya (dwelling). Both accepted in most geographical lists of names. Your teacher was not incorrect. Obviously your teacher is expected to know more than his pupils. Actually, Al's teacher *was* incorrect. If he was trying to demonstrate that he knew how to pronounce the name of the range properly, he should also have known that the name's *singular*! Pedantic Rob |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: Doug Chadwick Date: 10 Oct 12 - 05:47 AM What it is trying to express is that WE KNOW GERMANS PRONONOUNCE ANGELA LIKE THIS - AND YOU SILLY THICK OLD PLEBS WON'T REALISE THAT - NOT BEING INYELLIGENT LIKE WOT WE ARE. …………………… || …………………… Its not really mispronouncing foreign words and names that I'm talking about Its that snotty - I know more than you do - sort of thing. So Big Al, do you want everything dumbed down for fear of upsetting the ignorant? Should I start missing the endings off words so that I don't embarrass the young people around me? Am I being cruel to my children when I pronounce the "t" sound in words such as "bu'er" or "wa'er"? DC |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: Doug Chadwick Date: 10 Oct 12 - 06:17 AM The definitive pronunciation is that used by the lady herself. I would imagine that the BBC is trying to follow that guideline. Yeh, but its that middle class thing....that attitude! Kowingly mispronouncing someone's name because there is an anglicised version that is "close enough" is disrespectful, whether you are a Nob or one of the hoi polloi. Anyway, what's wrong with being middle class? Reverse snobbery is just as distasteful as any other form of class distinction, as far as I'm concerned. DC |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 10 Oct 12 - 12:43 PM Rob Naylor, the singular usage is the exception for many mountain ranges, not only the Himalayas, but the Cascades, the Appalachians, the Urals, etc., have plural usage as the norm. The Oracle Education Foundation Think Quest, "Projects by students for students," heads their article "Himalayas, where the earth meets the sky." (http://library.thinkquest.org/10131/) The description of their services by the Sherpa Society on the net begins, "The Himalayas consist of a huge mountain range stretching 3000km.......... and the Nepal Himalaya is the largest and highest,....." (http://www.sherpasocietytrekking.com/adventures/climbing/) In fairness it should be pointed out that the Merriam Webster's dictionaries, in their geographical listings, refer to this range as "the Himalaya Mountains," which would meet with your approval. I would also like to reiterate my disapproval of the reverse snobbery of those who have sub-middle-class attitudes. (Hmmmf, kaff, kaff). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: Big Al Whittle Date: 10 Oct 12 - 08:11 PM so if you disapprove of reverse snobbery - I suppose that means you're pro-snobbery. which figures - given the supercilious tone of expression in your posting. Am I supposed to believe the BBC has a deep respect Angela Merkel...? Am i supposed to believe that daft old snob of a teacher was tipping his hat to the Tibetans.....? No, of course not. Like the daft way of singing folksongs, it is about marking yourself off from common humanity - a way of saying - I am not one of the common herd, for i am of superior metal and construction, so I will talk funny - and thereby you will recognise me as something a bit special. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: GUEST,Ms Penelope Rutledge Date: 11 Oct 12 - 12:27 PM How long must we listen to the pretentious whining of those who profess to represent the "common man" and pretend that they are standing up for him when all they are really doing is flaunting their own wretched little egos and hoping that the world will notice them? There's nothing wrong with snobbery if it is founded in good breeding and a superior education. As a matter of fact, it is virtually obligatory when one has reached a certain level in life...as, I suppose, is bloody-minded obstinacy when one has not. * PR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: GUEST,Mavis Enderby Date: 11 Oct 12 - 01:06 PM What a bizarre argument. Did you have the same problem with Nicolas Sarkozy? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: GUEST,Ms Penelope Rutledge Date: 11 Oct 12 - 01:16 PM If you are addressing me, Mavis, I must say that I don't recall having a problem with Mr Sarkozy. He was quite polite on the few occasions when we encountered one another at this or that public function. * PR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: GUEST,Mavis Enderby Date: 11 Oct 12 - 02:18 PM My apologies Ms Rutledge, I was referring to the original poster. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: GUEST,Ms Penelope Rutledge Date: 11 Oct 12 - 03:23 PM No offense, taken, Mavis. It seems that Big Al is offended by people who pronounce foreign names properly! My, my. He offers a bizarre argument indeed. He would, perhaps, prefer an Inspector Clouseau type who pronounces everything in his own unique fashion, taking "no prisoners", as it were, when it comes language... Just pronounce it your own way, then! * PR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: Nigel Parsons Date: 12 Oct 12 - 06:28 AM so if you disapprove of reverse snobbery - I suppose that means you're pro-snobbery. which figures - given the supercilious tone of expression in your posting. Am I supposed to believe the BBC has a deep respect Angela Merkel...? Am i supposed to believe that daft old snob of a teacher was tipping his hat to the Tibetans.....? No, of course not. Like the daft way of singing folksongs, it is about marking yourself off from common humanity - a way of saying - I am not one of the common herd, for i am of superior metal and construction, so I will talk funny - and thereby you will recognise me as something a bit special. But once you continue misspronouncing words once the correct pronunciation has been made clear, you are just showing your ignorance. If you choose to mispronounce words then that, in turn, may lead to misspelling them as well. It is easy to confuse 'metal' with 'mettle' if there is no difference in pronunciation! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: Pete Jennings Date: 12 Oct 12 - 07:00 AM Good moaning! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: gnomad Date: 12 Oct 12 - 08:04 AM Ignorance and lack of courtesy are not one and the same thing. What gets me riled is not the correct pronunciation of the G, but the subsequent choice to mispronounce the E as a U, as mentioned in the thread title. Done once by a comedian in a comic circumstance it can be seen as a rather weak joke, in questionable taste. Done (repeatedly) by supposedly professional newscasters in a serious context it argues either inexcusable rudeness, or an ignorance of which the BBC should be ashamed. Incidentally, educated and intelligent are not synonyms either. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: GUEST,Grishka Date: 12 Oct 12 - 08:41 AM There is only one type of foreigner truly respected by the BBC: those who boast a flawless British English, preferably upper-middle class. During the Iraq war, Oxford-trained Tariq Aziz was their darling. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: Nigel Parsons Date: 12 Oct 12 - 09:07 AM During the Olympics, it was commented on (on TV) that the asymmetric bars are now known as the uneven bars in deference to the Americans. (I only report this. I don't know that the 'dumbing down' was just for the Americans). Fortunately, this loss of one syllable was more than compensated for (due to word frequency count) by the fact that 'Athlete' now appears to need three syllables "Ath er leet". Similarly "Ath er let ics". Cheers |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 12 Oct 12 - 12:21 PM Uneven bars (asymmetric bars (UK). Now who will give the official Olympic name for this gymnastic event? Football and Soccer is another that causes confusion. The sport is governed by FIFA (Féderation de Football Association); Football is the name used in the Olympics. In North America, the name soccer is used commonly to distinguish the game from American Football (and the popular NFL (U.S.) and CFL (Canada) professional leagues). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 12 Oct 12 - 12:48 PM Féd. Int. Gymnastique lists the event as Uneven Bars. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 12 Oct 12 - 06:32 PM I consider myself well-educated. And people have in the past mocked me for pronouncing foreign words correctly. But to be fair, we don't say 'Paree' do we? Or 'Bairlin'. Or 'Noo York' We say Paris, Berlin and New York. It's very interesting that there are these limits to how far one can go with exact reproduction of the local pronunciation. I know about Himaalayah but would always say The Himalayas. I do show off sometimes. I like to upset the lady in the perfume department of our big store in Norwich by asking for Ann-I-Ees Ann-I-Ees in a strong French accent. It's always 'Annay-Annay' to her. Terrible of me, but I enjoy it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 12 Oct 12 - 07:16 PM Anise?? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: Backwoodsman Date: 13 Oct 12 - 01:52 AM Anais-Anais. It's a lady's perfume, marketed by Cacharel. The first perfume I bought for Mrs. Fenswoman when we started our courtship (what an old-fashioned word - I love it!), and I still like it seventeen years later. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: Backwoodsman Date: 13 Oct 12 - 01:59 AM And good on you, Eliza. It does my head in when I hear 'lingerie' pronounced 'lorn-ger-ay' instead of 'lan-ger-ee' with the nasal 'lan'. Equally so when I hear someone described as a 'restauranteur', when they are actually a restaurateur. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: Big Al Whittle Date: 13 Oct 12 - 02:40 AM Yeh lets face it the logic of this is assymetric, or uneven even.... As for lingerie departments, most people call it 'the place they sell knickers and stuff'. As for perfume, parfum or whatever....I've always liked that Victoria Wood line....He'll love the smell of your Charlie! Explain that one to foreigners. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: Backwoodsman Date: 13 Oct 12 - 02:57 AM I used to work with a woman who frequently asked if I could smell her Lou-Lou. She also pronounced Anais as 'anus'. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 13 Oct 12 - 03:40 AM LOL!! My mother used to deliberately annoy my poor father in restaurants by selecting a dish from the 'Horse's Doovers'. Imagine if one used Chanel perfume. Would he love the smell of your channel? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: Backwoodsman Date: 13 Oct 12 - 03:54 AM My wife often asks if I can smell her Channel! :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 13 Oct 12 - 04:16 AM LOL again! I've mentioned this before on another thread. But our Latin teacher, a very upper-class Miss Bailey-Reynolds ( buck-teeth,rowed for Oxford) totally forbade us to use anything but a cut-glass English accent when pronouncing any foreign word. In her opinion it was beneath an English person to descend to 'their' level. We used to giggle uncontrollably in her lessons, she was a legend. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: Backwoodsman Date: 13 Oct 12 - 04:22 AM No wonder most foreign countries hate us! :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 13 Oct 12 - 04:29 AM I know, terribly colonial of her; she was a crashing snob, but very very funny. The sad thing is, I (like all my Irish family) have a good ear for accents and languages. I hated not being allowed free rein to copy exactly a French or German pronunciation. Luckily I studied Phonetics at Uni as a side-line, and was encouraged to reproduce accurately all sorts of clicks, implosives and tonal variations to my heart's content. Bliss! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: redhorse Date: 13 Oct 12 - 05:38 AM Al, how do you feel a German should pronounce your name? Wittal or Vittler? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: GUEST,Grishka Date: 13 Oct 12 - 10:00 AM Here is a German TV announcer summarizing the first seven episodes of a (fictitious) British drama. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: Big Al Whittle Date: 13 Oct 12 - 05:18 PM Most Germans settle for Veetal. But I don't mind. I quite like that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Angular Merkel From: Little Hawk Date: 13 Oct 12 - 07:42 PM This English parrot seems to object to its owner trying to teach it some French pronunciation.... Parrot dislikes the French accent! |
