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BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay?
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Subject: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Sawzaw Date: 07 Jul 12 - 09:27 PM Pentagon plans $40m fiber optic cable from Guantanamo Bay to US mainland The Pentagon plans to install a $40 million fiber optic cable between the US military jail at Guantanamo Bay and the US mainland, a spokesman said Thursday - an indication the facility will not close anytime soon. According to a "feasibility study" conducted by the US Defense Information Systems Agency, the project will cost an estimated $40 million, Pentagon spokesman Todd Breasseale told AFP. The project - part of the budget for the fiscal year 2013 - must be approved by Congress, he said, confirming a Miami Herald report. The construction of a fiber optic link would greatly improve telecoms access for those living at the US military base in Cuba. Detention camps at the naval base currently house 169 inmates. News of the fiber optic cable project comes after the recent construction of a football field for Guantanamo inmates, at a cost of $744,000.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Bobert Date: 07 Jul 12 - 09:32 PM The Republican House won't approve one dime to move it... End of story... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Sawzaw Date: 07 Jul 12 - 09:48 PM The word from Obama was close it, not move it. Guantanamo Bay: Still Open, Despite Promises ABC News It might be President Obama's biggest broken promise: [Big Ass Lie?] closing the prison at Guantanamo Bay. As a candidate, Obama vowed so many times that he would shutter the prison he called a recruitment tool for terrorists that he himself even noted how often he's promised to do so, in an interview with Steve Kroft shortly after he was elected. In that interview in November 2008, Kroft asked Obama if he planned to "take early action" to shut down Guantanamo. Obama replied, "Yes." "I have said repeatedly that I intend to close Guantanamo, and I will follow through on that," he said. After three and a half years as president, Obama has not done so. Shortly after being sworn in, Obama did sign an executive order that required that the Guantanamo prison be closed within a year. "The detention facilities at Guantánamo for individuals covered by this order shall be closed as soon as practicable, and no later than 1 year from the date of this order," read the statement he signed on Jan. 22, 2009. At the end of that year, in December, with Guantanamo still open and running, Obama accepted the Nobel Peace Prize. He said in his acceptance speech: "I believe the United States of America must remain a standard bearer in the conduct of war. That is what makes us different from those whom we fight. That is a source of our strength." "That is why I prohibited torture," he added. "That is why I ordered the prison at Guantanamo Bay closed." Five days later, Obama issued a memo that directed the defense secretary and the attorney general to prepare a prison in Illinois for the Guantanamo detainees. The deadline in Obama's executive order passed, and still he hadn't shut down the prison. In March 2011, two years after he signed the order, Obama signed another executive order. This one set up a review process for detainees. The document sought to "establish, as a discretionary matter, a process to review on a periodic basis the executive branch's continued, discretionary exercise of existing detention authority in individual cases." The White House also released a related four-sentence statement in Obama's name. It didn't mention closing Guantanamo, or even use the word Guantanamo. Obama has run into plenty of opposition in Congress. Lawmakers passed a bill preventing federal money from being used to transfer Guantanamo prisoners to the United States. Obama signed that bill into law, even as he issued a statement that disapproved of it. The provision was part of a bigger military bill that Obama said was too important not to sign. Republicans, in particular, say that Guantanamo must stay open to keep terrorists there. The issue has largely subsided, a result of the stagnant economy wearing on the public and perhaps the repetitive nature of the storyline. Civil rights advocates still hope Obama stays true to his word. By his own power, he could take significant steps to close the prison, or he could issue a so-called signing statement that supersedes the law preventing federal money from being used to transfer prisoners. Zachary Katznelson, a senior attorney at the American Civil Liberties Union, said Obama can release 87 Guantanamo prisoners who have been cleared, and start proceedings for trials for the other 169 detainees. "President Obama has enough control and power that he can get these men out today if he has the political will to do so," Katznelson said. "It is a political decision." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Bobert Date: 07 Jul 12 - 09:57 PM Obama doesn't control the purse... End of story no matter how much Sawz and TeaPub Nation want to pin this on Obama... With the current system of government Jesus Christ Himself couldn't have closed Gitmo... Why Saws thinks that we are all stupid and don't remember the facts here is beyond me??? B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Richard Bridge Date: 07 Jul 12 - 10:43 PM Because Teapubs are stupid and can't remember facts - and further do not know the difference between facts and propaganda. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: MarkS Date: 07 Jul 12 - 10:46 PM With the current system of government Jesus Christ Himself couldn't have closed Gitmo... Hey Bobert, you are right on this one. The pity is that neither President Obama or any of his advisory team had the instinct, intuition, of forsight to know it. All the Presidents promises and later statements are making him look, unnecessarily in my view, foolish. And it did not have to happen. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Jack the Sailor Date: 07 Jul 12 - 10:55 PM The prison wasn't moved because the majority of the American people have bought into the lie that the federal government can't do anything right. They are afraid to have the inmates moved to federal facilities in their states. But closing Gitmo should not be the issue. If the detainees at the facility are having their rights observed, it does not matter where they are being held while they are in US custody. On the other hand... If the detainees at the facility are NOT having their rights observed, it does not matter where they are being held while they are in US custody. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Bobert Date: 07 Jul 12 - 11:04 PM It was also blocked by House Republicans who said they would not spend one red cent to move it... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 07 Jul 12 - 11:26 PM Bobert: "The Republican House won't approve one dime to move it... End of story..." Bobert: "Obama doesn't control the purse... End of story no matter how much Sawz and TeaPub Nation want to pin this on Obama... With the current system of government Jesus Christ Himself couldn't have closed Gitmo..." Richard Bridge: "Because Teapubs are stupid and can't remember facts - and further do not know the difference between facts and propaganda." Mark S: "The pity is that neither President Obama or any of his advisory team had the instinct, intuition, of forsight to know it." Now. gullible children, shouldn't you be in the other thread??: 'BS: delusional american politics' If you knew he had no power to close it..then why did you vote for him, if you knew he was a liar??..or as Richard put it, "Because Teapubs are stupid and can't remember facts - and further do not know the difference between facts and propaganda." ...only thing, maybe the Democrats have the same problem.....strike 'maybe'!!!!! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Sawzaw Date: 07 Jul 12 - 11:42 PM Facts are he said he was going to close it and he did not. He didn't say if I can. He said I will. He had enough control of Congress to ram through stimulus and Obamacare. He just didn't do it. That is what you would call a Big Ass Lie. And then there were all the Bush Haters screaming about him shreding the Constitution by violatin' Habeas Corpus and cryin' their eyes out about how he was a war criminal for detaining them. But when Obama continues doing the same thing he is doing the right thing and it is all someone else's fault. BHO: "What I have also said is this: that when you suspend habeas corpus -- which has been a principle, dating before even our country, it's the foundation of Anglo-American law -- which says, very simply, if the government grabs you, then you have the right to at least ask, 'Why was I grabbed?' and say, 'Maybe you've got the wrong person.' The reason you have that safeguard is because we don't always have the right person. We don't always catch the right person. We may think this is Mohammed the terrorist, it might be Mohammed the cab driver. You may think it's Barack the bomb thrower, but it might be Barack the guy running for president. The reason that you have this principle is not to be soft on terrorism, it's because that's who we are [Thunderous applause] That's what we're protecting. Don't mock the Constitution! Don't make fun of it! Don't suggest that it's un-American to abide by what the founding fathers set up! It's worked pretty well for over 200 years! " New York Post: "WASHINGTON — President Obama on Monday reversed his two-year-old order halting new military charges against detainees at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, permitting military trials to resume with revamped procedures but implicitly admitting the failure of his pledge to close the prison camp." Bobert:"Yeah, I don't have much use fir Dems but this current crop of Repubs are especially corrupt in the way they are usurping powers and handing them over to the executive branch... This suspenion of habeas corpus is a very troublesome threshho9ld to croos and won't make anyone any safer..." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Joe Offer Date: 08 Jul 12 - 12:17 AM Well, the fiber optic cable isn't really a sign of whether the prison will stay or close. Guantanamo Bay is a fairly large U.S. naval base, and there has been no talk of closing the base. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Jack the Sailor Date: 08 Jul 12 - 02:19 AM I'm still wondering why Sawzaw cares? Sawzaw did you want the based closed? I thought you were on the other side of that issue. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 08 Jul 12 - 02:21 AM Joe Offer: "...and there has been no talk of closing the base." Well not now....after he already duped those who voted for him, thinking that he would....along with a lot of other hot air! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Sawzaw Date: 08 Jul 12 - 09:04 AM What the hell does what I want matter in relation to an unfulfilled campaign promise? Does Jack want the prison closed? Does he want Obama held accountable? I want Obama held accountable. Obama said "I want you to hold me accountable" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: artbrooks Date: 08 Jul 12 - 09:39 AM When Congress votes to deny the use of any Federal funds to move any prisoners anywhere or to take any other action to close the prison, just how is Mr. Obama supposed to close the prison? Oops - let's not let logic get in the way of a good rant. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Sandy Mc Lean Date: 08 Jul 12 - 10:17 AM It is sad that the USA decries poor human rights in Cuba while they use Cuban territory to violate human rights themselves. Yes, the USA has a century old lease on Gitmo signed by a very corrupt Cuban government, but Cuba has every moral right to evict them except that the USA refuses to leave, and it has the bigger guns! Like a bad tenant in an apartment that threatens landlord and neighbours it has long outstayed its welcome! For all the good that the USA has done in this world its reputation has been sullied by pandering to Miami based Baptista deciples! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Bobert Date: 08 Jul 12 - 11:22 AM Yo, GfinS.... Gitmo wasn't the reason I voted for Obama... Nor was it even in the Top Ten reasons... And I suspect that most others who voted for him feel the same way... Everyone knew that Gitmo would turn out to the slobber-knocker that it is... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: GUEST Date: 08 Jul 12 - 03:15 PM Yo-Yo Bobert: "Some people may see it before others....this is why I didn't vote for him! ...not the Gitmo issue...he was an obvious bullshitter during his nomination campaign...and I said as much PLAINLY back then! Now, what are we supposed to do, ignore the unfolding history in front of us and make stupid excuses, or call it as it is?? This has NOTHING to do with 'hate' 'racism' 'bigotry', the 'Tea People'..this just is what it is. 'Let reality be reality'...maybe even join in on the fun!!...it's THERE you can make a difference...not by nodding your head repeatedly, as in a stupor...eating over the sink, of course!! Jeez, let your mind FULLY work.....( forefinger to perched lips: Shhhh....shhh.....its good focus when you're playing....artists and good players LIVE there!! Regards.....and use it well, it will serve you rightly' GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 08 Jul 12 - 03:16 PM Last post was mine.....could you tell?? GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Jack the Sailor Date: 08 Jul 12 - 03:31 PM We didn't think we elected God Sawzaw. We didn't think we elected a man who spoke for or to God or had any special divine powers. President Obama issued an executive order to close the detention facility and move the prisoners to US soil. He kept that promise and cowards in Congress, led by John McCain, who was brave when he was young and Lindsay Graham, who probably was always a weasel, used the powers of Congress to override that order. I think that the Gitmo Prison should be kept open until the lease on the Navy base expires, then it should be moved onto the National Mall in Washington as a reminder of the silly unwarranted excesses that occur when we elect neocon chicken hawks to run the country. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Bobert Date: 08 Jul 12 - 03:32 PM If you want some bullshit come to NC and watch Romney's "First 100 Days Ad" where he promises to do stuff that any moron who has a 3rd grade education knows he can't possibly do... He says that he is going to "repeal Obamacare" in that time frame... Wonder if he realizes that it will take 60 Senate votes to accomplish that??? Probably not... Oh, anf he's going to "slash the deficit" in that period also??? Hmmmmmm??? How's he plan on doing that when it takes 60 Senators to go along with it and what is he going to cut??? Oh, he's going to shut down the EPA... Right??? Yup 60 Seanators are going to go along with that, right??? Wrong... Yeah, you want some bullshit then Romney is the bullshitter of all bullshitters... Or a moron... You pick... BTW, I don't read right winged blogs... These people are on the Koch brothers payroll... They lie worse than any politician can because they are paid to lie, twist, scheme, scam, hoodwink and bamboozle... I also don't read any left wing blogs... Or any blogs, for that matter... Heck, it's hard enough to find the truth in Big Media but if you know how to read and watch it you can find the patterns and propaganda and can figure out the real facts from the junk... Just this week the Labor Department was hoping for 90,000 new jobs last month... They got 80,000 and Big Media, across the board went into synchronized hand wringing??? I mean, just like Pavlov's dog... Hey, when Obama came into office two things happened - well more than two but tow that stick out related to the hand wringers... First, the US was losing 250,000 jobs a month and... ...second, Obama told the country that a full recovery would take more than one term and be slow... So now every month when Obama's warnings are shown to be true the hand wringers still have to do their little ritual circle jerk... Yawn... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Stringsinger Date: 08 Jul 12 - 05:50 PM America's shame. |
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Subject: RE: BS: C here to stay? From: Jack the Sailor Date: 08 Jul 12 - 06:21 PM Saying that the Gitmo Prison is America's IMO is missing the point. What Bush did there is America's shame. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Sawzaw Date: 08 Jul 12 - 06:38 PM Why would anyone promise to do something they cannot do? He even puffed out his chest and said he would do it in 100 days. Do you trust people who make empty promises and then find excuses? Why wouldn't a genius like Obama know it could not be done? Now for my next trick, "I will cut the deficit in half in my first term" "Today I'm pledging to cut the deficit we inherited by half by the end of my first term in office," Obama said. "Now, this will not be easy. It will require us to make difficult decisions and face challenges we've long neglected. But I refuse to leave our children with a debt that they cannot repay, and that means taking responsibility right now, in this administration, for getting our spending under control." The next day in Congress. "Yesterday I held a fiscal summit where I pledged to cut the deficit in half by the end of my first term in office," he said. Meanwhile the foot soldiers are chanting "Yes We Can. Yes We Can" Later on Reality sets in: Whine "the economic downturn was much more severe than was commonly understood." Whine. Sniff "They talk about me like a dog" Sniff. [no offense to Jimi] No genius, no superior intelligence just empty promises, excuses and full blown victimhood. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Jack the Sailor Date: 08 Jul 12 - 07:50 PM If you feel that way. Vote for Romney. Since he has at one time or another promised everything on both sides of every issue, you will be only half disappointed on everything he does and doesn't do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Don Firth Date: 08 Jul 12 - 07:58 PM Let me give you this little analogy, Obama-haters. Not that you'll pay any attention to it. You tell someone that you are going to get the cat out of the tree. But every time you try, someone comes and kicks the ladder out from under you. That does not mean that your assertion that you were going to get the cat out of the tree was a lie. It is disingenuous and intentionally misleading (a lie!!) to keep claiming that Obama is a liar if Congress keeps blocking everything he said he intended to do. That's just basic sense. Understand? Of course not! You lose one of your "hate points." Obama's not the liar. YOU are! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Bobert Date: 08 Jul 12 - 08:02 PM Yer right, Sawz... Call Romney and tell him to quit lying about stuff that he says he can do in his "First 100 Days" that anyone with a 3rd grade education knows is impossible... Oh... Call George W. Bush up and ask him about those WMDs, too... Ya'll trying to make chicken salad outta chicken feathers... What a stretch but Obama haters will do what ever it is to come up with anything... Yawn... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Jack the Sailor Date: 08 Jul 12 - 08:09 PM Sen. McConnell: Making Obama A One-Term President Is My Single Most Important Political Goal. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Bobert Date: 08 Jul 12 - 08:24 PM Yup, Jack... When one party says that governance is no longer important than that party needs to pay the price for quitting on America... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Songwronger Date: 08 Jul 12 - 08:32 PM Obama could close Gitmo today. He's the president. He issues orders saying he can disappear you and kill you, so he can close Guantanamo. This has nothing to do with "the purse" power of congress. Obama's just another lying psycopath in the vein of the Clintons and the Bushes. He's an insane, murdering liar. The only people worse than Obama are the ones who try to defend him by blaming his actions on his political rivals. Another Obama lie was the one about him never signing the National Defense Authorization Act, which makes Americans subject to the same rules of "warfare" which have led to the detention of those poor slobs at Guantanamo. Because Obama went back on his promise not to sign the NDAA, your ass can now be locked up in Gitmo. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Jack the Sailor Date: 08 Jul 12 - 08:38 PM Songy! I have a solution for you! Find someone who is perfect and vote for Him or Her. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Songwronger Date: 08 Jul 12 - 08:44 PM You capitalize Him and Her as you would the word God. The state has become your deity. That's why you think someone like Obama can "save" us. Halleluiah. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Don Firth Date: 08 Jul 12 - 08:47 PM WOW! I'm getting a whole new insight into what is meant by the word "extremist!" I think the word to describe it is "grotesque." Don Firth P. S. That level of hate is just plain sick! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Bobert Date: 08 Jul 12 - 08:54 PM Tell us, wrongman, how Obama could legally close Gitmo today... This is going to be fun to read... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Songwronger Date: 08 Jul 12 - 08:58 PM Issue an Executive Order. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Jack the Sailor Date: 08 Jul 12 - 08:58 PM Obvious, YOU need an deity to save you from the One who is so evil. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Songwronger Date: 08 Jul 12 - 09:04 PM I could pull up lots of Executive Orders that give the president the power to seize control of commerce, the money supply, transportation and so on. These are all "purse-string" activities that congress is supposed to regulate, yet the E.O.'s claim supremacy. If we're now ruled by E.O.'s, then just issue one to close Gitmo. Reporters have talked about Obama's daily activities. He has a big-screen TV where he watches snuff films. Nose camera views of drones taking out those who were on his "kill list." That asshole wants Gitmo open because he LIKES torture and death. He watches freakin' snuff films, people. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Bobert Date: 08 Jul 12 - 09:13 PM So where are you going to house them, wronger??? B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Don Firth Date: 08 Jul 12 - 09:34 PM "Reporters have talked about Obama's daily activities. He has a big-screen TV where he watches snuff films. Nose camera views of drones taking out those who were on his "kill list." That asshole wants Gitmo open because he LIKES torture and death. He watches freakin' snuff films, people." And what "reporters" are they, Wrong-O? This is an example of what I was talking about above. Extremist hatred. It's becoming more and more obvious to me that all of these attacks on Obama (claims about his being born in Kenya or Indonesia, that he's gay, and the vast litany of other libels, including Wrong-O's allegatiion above) are skirting around the one thing about Obama that they dare not say, because that will reveal the REAL reason for that kind of irrational hatred. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Sawzaw Date: 08 Jul 12 - 09:53 PM "Call Romney and tell him to quit lying about stuff that he says he can do in his "First 100 Days" that anyone with a 3rd grade education knows is impossible... How do you know he can't do what he says? Obama has proven he can't do what he says. Yes We Can, Yes We Can, I can't, I can't. He had his chance and blew it. Now he plays the victim. Oh... Call George W. Bush up and ask him about those WMDs, too... I didn't know George Bush was in this election. Ya'll trying to make chicken salad outta chicken feathers... Ya'll trying to make chicken soup out of chicken shit What a stretch but Obama haters will do what ever it is to come up with anything... Romney haters tryin' to use any trick to support a failed Obama Yawn..." Nighty Night |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: artbrooks Date: 08 Jul 12 - 10:11 PM If you put the two Ss together, you might get a room-temperature IQ out of the merge. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Sawzaw Date: 08 Jul 12 - 10:18 PM "claims about his being born in Kenya" In two promos for his book of fabrications, it says he was born in Kenya. Now that "fact" won't die. Only a small faction believes that so you use that as a propaganda tool to paint everybody that disagrees with Obama an extremist. How kind and courteous of you respect other people opinions. =============================================================== "So where are you going to house them, wronger???" That is a question for MR Obama to answer. Not Wronger. It was Obama's Idea. His promise. Puff Puff Huff Elect me Thump Thump President and I will close Guantanamo. Huzzah, Yes we can, Yes We can. Media Gushers: I just felt a tingle up my leg. I could tell by the crease in his pants he would make a great president. I thought it was Hollywood. It was romance. It was realism. The technical quality of it, the production values were perfect, the way they timed going to live, the biographical material. But most important, the connection with the average person in the economic turmoil we face right now I thought was fabulous. Of course, there we see the setting, which is very much like an Oval Office setting, showing that he's comfortable and we should be comfortable and will be with him in such a setting. I thought everything was just right. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Bobert Date: 08 Jul 12 - 10:19 PM That's about it, artbrooks Sawz and the Wrongerman are so eat up with hate that neither is capable of stringing an intelligent thought together... Both need professional help... BTW, in my former life I was a social worker dealing exclusively with clients with mental illness and both of these folks have major problems... But that's the inter net, for ya'... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Songwronger Date: 08 Jul 12 - 11:02 PM I don't do your P.I. work for you, Firth. That ended when you didn't know that Obama bombed the Phillipines. A list of Obamalies: http://obamalies.net/list-of-lies Oh, I just remembered that Obama DID issue an Executive Order closing Guantanamo Bay. Jan 22, 2009. His first E.O.: Sec. 3. Closure of Detention Facilities at Guantánamo. The detention facilities at Guantánamo for individuals covered by this order shall be closed as soon as practicable, and no later than 1 year from the date of this order. If any individuals covered by this order remain in detention at Guantánamo at the time of closure of those detention facilities, they shall be returned to their home country, released, transferred to a third country, or transferred to another United States detention facility in a manner consistent with law and the national security and foreign policy interests of the United States. http://www.cfr.org/terrorism-and-the-law/executive-order-regarding-guantanamo-bay-detainees/p18329 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Bobert Date: 08 Jul 12 - 11:08 PM In other words, wronger has no alternatives... Normal... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Songwronger Date: 08 Jul 12 - 11:31 PM Why should I voice an opinion about what should be done with the prisoners at Gitmo? Obama outlines all the options in his Executive Order. Send them home, release them, transfer them to other countries, other prisons. He laid it all out. On Obama's snuff films. Romney has been tapped to take over at the white house. Obama will now be brought down by leaks. Death of a thousand cuts. The drone thing is one of the cuts. A White House Insider said the following. WHI = white house insider, UM = Ulsterman: WHI: …Obama loves them drones. He has made them a personal priority above all else.... UM: I need to your to expand on the Drone thing – Obama's love of using the drones. You say you "got the goods" – your words. What do you mean? WHI: It's what has been brewin' for well over a year now…it's causing all kinds of hell between the administration…the military…infighting and concern among the staff…even Jarrett don't have a handle on all of it.... So having Obama so oddly focused…not just focused…he gets excited…visually…the guy gets off on it and he ain't even hiding that fact anymore. And some are repulsed by it. They've done video reviews you know…of the missions. The drones. The kills. UM: The president you mean? He watches videos of the drone attacks? WHI: Yeah – like it was…like it was porn. I can't emphasize…I don't think I'm painting a clear enough picture here for you of how this thing has people really freaking out inside the administration. It's good on one hand because it's got more of them willing to talk…but…the fact it's gotten this bad…these drones…an American president who has the video sent up to his personal study so he can watch them over and over again…like I said – sh-t ain't right. And more and more people are figuring that out – and that is what has Jarrett concerned. But even she…Obama won't listen to her on this one. Those drones are the one thing he really feels he has control over…all the rest…he's been told what to say and where to go…when to wake…when to sleep…but the drones. The drones are all his – and he ain't given those up. For nobody. UM: So Jarrett is against the use of drones? WHI: No-no-no…I ain't said that. Far from it. The drones are all part of this…the big big picture here…what she's concerned over is that her boy…the president…he's gotta get it under control…his obsession with using them like he has. The weekly meetings, the kill list…I mean c'mon now…he's got his own personal kill list. The guy who campaigned against Bush era interrogations…Obama don't interrogate. He picks a name off a list…some of these people have beenU.S. citizens…he picks that name off a list and orders the kill. Then he gets the video confirmation of the kill…and he watches it. Over and over and over again. (Pause) Jarrett knows she has got to tap that down. That kind of display…it's repulsive to people. And it's freaking them out. Jarrett don't mind the drones…she approves of the program…she approves of what…of how they will be utilized at home. http://beforeitsnews.com/story/2218/320/White_House_Insider%3A_Barack_Obama_s_High_Tech_Snuff_Films_Pt_2.html Lots more there, I just selected the drone/snuff portions. The insider talks about the strategy problems with Obama's snuff film obsession, too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Don Firth Date: 09 Jul 12 - 01:38 AM Obama bombed the Philippines? And when was this, Songwronger? And you post of 11:31 p.m. can only indicate that you've pretty well lost it. But thanks for the link to your source of information about Obama. The fact that you seem to take that as Gospel tells me all I need to know about you. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Don Firth Date: 09 Jul 12 - 01:57 AM "How kind and courteous of you respect other people opinions." Well, Sawzaw, when those opinions have no basis in facts, and are an expression of nothing more than irrational hatred, I don't see that they deserve respect. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 09 Jul 12 - 05:12 AM Don Firth: "This is an example of what I was talking about above. Extremist hatred." Is that something like, or akin to extremist denial?? Just a thought..........................which I know you don't like. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: GUEST,999 Date: 09 Jul 12 - 08:23 AM I live in the global village also. The world is small and fast in terms of communications these days, and to make that easier to deal with certain rules of thumb have come to apply just as in any small village: 1) If you haven't heard any bad rumors by 9:00 am, start some. Well, that's only one rule and perhaps I misspoke, but it's pretty ubiquitous. Covers lots of situations. By the time ya get the mess sorted out, it's months later and people by then believe the first version they heard and kept hearing. Here's a true story that demonstrates what I'm on about. In our town there was a fellow named Deacon Barscoombe Wiltedale who took up with the Mayor's sister Rhododendron Heathquest in what was presumed to be a bonfire of emotions. They were wed and as is all too common these days divorced before the ink on the marriage certificate was rightly dried. Their house was split evenly between them thanks to a purchase at the local hardware store of a Husqvarna chainsaw and a replacement chain to speed cutting time and their neighbor Cordwood Snicker who turned out to be quite adept with a piece of chalk and a 100'-tape measure. By the time the local bloggers got hold of the brief but sorry tale, the exact dates were nailed down and Deacon Barscoombe was determined to have had 'something coming to him' because of his part in the wretched affair. To my knowledge, the Good Deacon is quite safe from possible tar-and-feathering because he vanished into thin air--from whence he came. Gradually the story will fade, unless of course he follows up on his once-stated promise to run against the Mayor for town leadership. Story on his status with regard to that in tomorrow's installment. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Bobert Date: 09 Jul 12 - 08:58 AM Wasn't it Glen Campbell who took a chainsaw to a couch during a heated property division argument??? Now that's the way to do it... BTW, in Aldie, Va. there stands half a house that was the end game of one of these disputes... Well, at the least the guy kept the front half but it sho nuff looks strange... BTW, Part B... My Couzin Rufus has done some dumb shit over the years and has lived in half-a-double-wide going back for the last twenty years as a result of bet on a friggin' high school football game during one of his drunks... But like the guy in Aldie Rufe got to keep the front half... The back is now a blue tarp and duct tape... He says the worst part about it is that he's had to sleep with his wife, Retha Mae, ever since... Anyone who knows them will tell ya' that that ain't a purdy sight... B;~) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 09 Jul 12 - 11:28 AM Bobert: "Wasn't it Glen Campbell who took a chainsaw to a couch during a heated property division argument???" John Denver took chainsaw to his place he had had built for them in Starwood,..(community outside Aspen, Co) after he was informed the Annie was leaving him....but it was a lot more than his couch!!! I know, I saw it. John had quite a drinking problem and temper...which locals knew about, quite well. When he did all those radio and TV public service announcements, about 'saving the trees'..was not because he was just a 'conversationalist'(which he also was)...it was because he was sentenced to do that as part of his 'community service' for driving drunk and running off the road, in his Porsche, and hitting a tree with it....and Colorado is VERY protective of its trees!! Just try cutting one down, on your own property, without a permit, to build a shed, or something, if you want to find out!....(unless you're slick). GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Bobert Date: 09 Jul 12 - 11:56 AM That's right... It was John Denver... Not a very good pilot either... Word around the hanger is that he accidentally shut off the fuel before the engine died and the plane crashed... It was Glen Campbell who was arrested for trying to beat Tina Tucker's door down... Wonder if he remembers that??? B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Jack the Sailor Date: 09 Jul 12 - 01:17 PM rocky mountain high. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Don Firth Date: 09 Jul 12 - 03:07 PM I believe that was Tanya Tucker. She and Campbell were having a steamy affair, even though she was still in bobby-sox and saddle shoes. I always wondered why Campbell didn't get busted for that. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Bobert Date: 09 Jul 12 - 03:17 PM Yer right, Don... I'm O for 2 in the remember-when-____________-__________________-to-_________________ department... Yeah, ya' gotta love a woman purdy bad to break yer hand beatin' on a door or cuttin' up a sofa with a chainsaw... I don't recall doing anything like either of those guuys so my hats off to both of them for creativity... Actually, more to John Denver... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 09 Jul 12 - 07:46 PM Bobert: "......my hats off to both of them for creativity... Actually, more to John Denver..." The place was a disaster!..The bar, the walls, the furniture, support posts(the place was post/beam construction), pictures, wood sculptures, tables, places on the floor....HE WAS PISSED!!!!!!!!!!(and probably drunk).....after all, 'Annie's Song' was really one, if not, his best work..for the woman he truly loved!...But, he did fuck up! It was during one of his 'fading times'....but all in all, a pretty good guy. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Bobert Date: 09 Jul 12 - 08:04 PM I'd pay good money to see some guy redo it... Hey if the guy cuts up any real work of art, that's different but... ... in these days of reality TV, ya' gotta admit that there are a lot of folks out there who sign up for pay-for-view... I would... Hey, here's another twist... So the guy is so pissed that he cuts thru the studs in a baring wall and get crushed... Remember that scene from Monty Python where lover boy hides under than bed when Hubby comes home and does a swan dive on the bed and it collapses and all you see is the blood coming from under the bed... I'm loving this... Reality Death TV... Sign up now and avoid the September rush... Don't be left out in the cold... I mean, if you sign up now we will provide you an entire menu of ways to fuck yourself up... Don't wait... Be the first on your block... LOL... B;~) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Don Firth Date: 10 Jul 12 - 12:52 AM Okay, sports fans, I just checked up Songwronger's allegation that "Obama bombed the Philippines." Here's the scoop: Islamic militants have been raising hell on Mindanao, where they have an autonomous enclave, and on at least one occasion, they planted a terrorist bomb in the Philippine capital city of Manila. President Begnino Aquino is making counterstrikes, and in February of this year, two planes of the Philippine Air Force bombed targets on Mindanao—which, at the request of President Aquino, were identified for him by American intelligence. That is the extent of the United States' involvement in the strife in the Philippines. That's quite a far cry from Songwronger's slanderous claim that "Obama bombed the Philippines." I believe that's the level of factual information you can anticipate from Songwronger's posts. I also checked out some to the Right Wing blogs where he—and a couple of others—get their information. If you have a really strong stomach, take a look into the septic tank that Wrong-O linked to in his post of 08 Jul 12 - 11:31 PM This is ALSO where he got that crapola about Obama supposedly being addicted to "snuff" movies. Really gamey!! Hatemongers Incorporated! Don Firth P. S. I'm certain that there is an obvious reason why these Bozos hate Obama so much. What do you think that might be, eh? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Jack the Sailor Date: 10 Jul 12 - 12:55 AM I think it is better to ignore our little trio. Their shine all heat and no light. Or should that be "all hate?" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Don Firth Date: 10 Jul 12 - 01:14 AM You're right, Jack. They constitute three badly inflamed boils on the butt of Truth. Nothing to be learned from those Bozos. Past my bedtime. Off to the sack. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: GUEST Date: 10 Jul 12 - 12:27 PM Don Firth: "You're right, Jack. They constitute three badly inflamed boils on the butt of Truth. Nothing to be learned from those Bozos. Past my bedtime. Off to the sack." Jack the Sailor: " I think it is better to ignore our little trio. Their shine all heat and no light. Or should that be "all hate?" Bobert: "Yer right, Don..." ...and there they are!!!! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 10 Jul 12 - 12:28 PM Jack the Sailor: " I think it is better to ignore our little trio. Their shine all heat and no light. Or should that be "all hate?" Don Firth: "You're right, Jack. They constitute three badly inflamed boils on the butt of Truth. Nothing to be learned from those Bozos. Past my bedtime. Off to the sack." Bobert: "Yer right, Don... ...and there they are!!!! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: GUEST,999 Date: 10 Jul 12 - 12:29 PM One man's salt is another's sodium chloride. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 10 Jul 12 - 12:45 PM THIS IS NOT POLITICAL, BUT AN INTERNET VIRUS WARNING!!! JUST THOUGHT I'D POST IT FOR MUDCATTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PASS THE WORD!!!! http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2011/02/01/outbreak-post-express-service-malware-attack-spammed-out/ GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 10 Jul 12 - 12:48 PM here's the Blue Clicky link for my previous post (Sorry, I forgot to 'Blue Clicky' it on the other post! Regards, GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: GUEST,999 Date: 10 Jul 12 - 12:55 PM One man's pet cat is another's dinner. One man's banjo is another's torment. One man's horse is another's stuffed animal. One man's political view is another's myopia. One man's jelly beans are another's tooth decay. One man's frying pan is another's skillet. I'm on a roll here: One man's scrap heap is another's headache. One man's headache is another's treasure. One man's music is another's noise. So spake the voice of Harleson the Third Steinkopfer in an overheard radio transmission originating near Alpha Centauri. I heard it in stereo, no doubt caused by simultaneous transmissions from the binary star. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Bobert Date: 10 Jul 12 - 12:57 PM Yeah, Don was right, GfinS... It was Tanya Tucker... I thought she was like under age when he tried to hook up with her... No matter, I don't think I got no viris... I do feel a tad worn out but I been out doing heavy carpenter work all morning in this sticky NC soupy air... As for Gitmo??? I guess it has been firmly established that nothing can happen as long as the Republicans in the House won't pay for it to happen... Lotta of American being held hostage along with some of the detainees in Gitmo by the House TeaPubs... Guess break time is over... Back to Bobert the Builder... B;~( |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: GUEST Date: 10 Jul 12 - 09:57 PM Guest,999: "...in an overheard radio transmission originating near Alpha Centauri. I heard it in stereo, no doubt caused by simultaneous transmissions from the binary star." Ahh, you listen to 'Galactic Central' too? ..or was that in a conversation you overhead on the 'Intergalactic Space Telephone'? GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Sawzaw Date: 11 Jul 12 - 11:26 AM "stringing an intelligent thought together" "The West Bank is no bigger than Washington DC" "Haiti where 1% own ***all*** the wealth" Intelligent thought? Personal attacks replace intelligent thought for some folks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 11 Jul 12 - 12:44 PM Suggestion- Gitmo, soon to re-open as the new 5(?) star resort, a prime holiday destination on the island of Cuba. Superb beachfront location, large Casino already in operation, far from the bustle of Havana. Expertly operated by Trump Enterprises. Now what was I smoking when I dreamed that? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: GUEST,saulgoldie Date: 11 Jul 12 - 01:59 PM When confronted with mental illness, you either try to help your brother or sister in need, or you ignore them and let them do themselves in. If they are harming anyone else and can't be ignored, you imprison them. It has been my experience that riling them up does not accomplish much. YMMV. Saul |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Don Firth Date: 11 Jul 12 - 02:37 PM Illegitimi non corborundum. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Sawzaw Date: 11 Jul 12 - 05:29 PM Hell no, I am not going to let people that believe "The West Bank is no bigger than Washington DC" and "Haiti where 1% own ***all*** the wealth" wear me down. I have been trying to help that person out by pointing out that the west Bank is larger than Washington DC but he just wont admit it. He also thinks Obama bought his own airplane for his campaign in 2008. Poor Fellow. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: GUEST,Branno Date: 12 Jul 12 - 09:40 AM WOW...! How we down here in the southern hemisphere do love our Amerikan brethren and their/your insightful, thoughtful lovingkindness in free and frank exchange that SO encourages we minor mortals (NON-Amerkanish that is), who also inhabit OUR beloved planet. As your deluded fascist warmongering Empire of obscenity leads the world into the abyss = truly, people, it seems as if you have some kind of collective insanity. Guantanamo Bay was originally leased as a coaling station by the US Navy, following the Mahon doctrine, in the 19th century, and my understanding is that you (your government) has never even bothered to pay the rent... The catalogue of woes the people of the REST OF THE WORLD hold the USA to account for is huge, and it seems to matter not who appears to hold the reins in Washington (or Frog Hollow?) You ALL know, as WE all know that the bastard place you call "Gitmo" is only one of many outright horrorshow 'facilities' maintained worldwide to "protect American interests". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Songwronger Date: 12 Jul 12 - 07:11 PM It's pretty amusing to drop a bomb on a thread like this and watch the dissociative thinking kick in. In his first executive order Obama said he would close Gitmo. The question is, why hasn't he? The answer is, Glen Campbell took a chainsaw to a couch. That's from Bobert, who has a moral blindspot the size of Jupiter when it comes to Obama. At any rate, I have to wonder if the fiber optic system from Gitmo is being upgraded so Obama can get better feeds of the atrocities being committed there. Day-old snuff films may seem pretty tame to him by now. Maybe he wants fresh meat. Live screams from the waterboarding, things like that. And I repeat: Sec. 3. Closure of Detention Facilities at Guantánamo. The detention facilities at Guantánamo for individuals covered by this order shall be closed as soon as practicable, and no later than 1 year from the date of this order. If any individuals covered by this order remain in detention at Guantánamo at the time of closure of those detention facilities, they shall be returned to their home country, released, transferred to a third country, or transferred to another United States detention facility in a manner consistent with law and the national security and foreign policy interests of the United States. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Bobert Date: 12 Jul 12 - 07:36 PM Nah, wronger... As per usual you have wrong down pat... Maybe you could bottle it up for folks who a tired of being right??? Obama ain't perfect... We on the left have never had a perfect president... That shouldn't have to be said but apparently you don't get the left at all... Obama is the lesser of evils... He hasn't started any wars... Oh, I know that your wacko bloggers have him starting a couple hundred (or thousand) wars... They also have Obama quilty of kidnapping the Limbergh baby and being a Nazi, a Muslim, a Martian, etc., etc... The alternative was John "Dick Cheney" McCain and is now Mitt "Dick Cheney" Romney... You pick... Oh, BTW... I have worked three (3) Green Party campaigns so don't even send that dog out to hunt because that mut not only don't hunt but if you bothered to notice, ain't breathing... He's dead... take him out back an bury him, man... BTW, I got pictures of my "Corvair" (lol) with Nader stickers all over the back of it... B~ B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: pdq Date: 12 Jul 12 - 08:21 PM "Guantanamo Bay was originally leased as a coaling station by the US Navy, following the Mahon doctrine, in the 19th century, and my understanding is that you (your government) has never even bothered to pay the rent..." Wrong. The rent checks have been sent like clockwork. Since Castro, they have been put in a box and not cashed. The Naval Base a Guantanamo Bay is the center of all search and rescue operations in the Carribean. As is the case with any disaster or emergency any place in the world, people point and watch until Uncle Sam shows up and takes care of the problem. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Don Firth Date: 12 Jul 12 - 10:18 PM I think our friend Branno may have fallen asleep in geography class. Coaling station? I don't think so. He's probably getting Gitmo confused with the Falkland Islands, and that's a whole different--cricket match. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: GUEST,Branno Date: 13 Jul 12 - 10:37 AM @pdq... A typically (arrogant?) American point of view. Rescue? RESCUE??? The USA does NOT pay the rent, does NOT ratify international treaties or accords (which according to your constitution should become the Law of the Land) and continues to use its power of veto in the UN like a bludgeon where Palestinians or Cubans are involved, to avoid annoying Israel. And incidentally, how have you treated the Cubans for the last 50 years? Or the Nicaraguans? Haitians? Iraqis, Afghans... a very long list of peoples you 'help' is it not? How about closer to home, say, Hopis or Lakotas or other First Nation people? Do you still assist the Vietnamese and Laotians? (too many of whom STILL die from or are maimed by 'Made in USA' bombs as you must be aware = La La Clinton smiled at one just the other day). Try rescuing yourselves. "Cops of the world"? Bah humbug! @Don Firth...I suggest you consult both your maps and your history texts, with special reference to US 'aquisitions' in the late 19th century (1903 in the case of your beloved 'Gitmo' as, yes indeed, a 'coaling station'). Diego Garcia ring a bell? How about The Philipines? Whence comes your Nazional Anthem? The false-flag war in Cuba! The Marine Hymn? Why it was Libya! We don't hate you down here (yes 'Downunder' way down here, just south of Hobart Town, next stop Mcquarie Island, can be found in any high-school atlas) but we sure don't like your Empire of exceptionalism (could that be also exemptionalism?) and "manifest destiny". So much good in your culture, and yet... Pax |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: GUEST,Branno Date: 13 Jul 12 - 11:04 AM Apart from Guantanamo Bay, centre for ALL rescue operations in the Carribean, the USA maintains hundreds of military bases all over the planet, and respectfully asks permission of local residents, yes? To be helpful, of course, dear sweet kind Uncle Sammy! "OK kid, do you want the money or the gun?" Ring of steel around Russia, traditional enemies of freedom, ring of steel around Iran, next on the list of countries to be helped, ring of allies all around China, the REAL menace, and now, slightly off the radar, it being a very important election year in the VERY IMPORTANT USA, the African adventure! Excitement! Profit! Saving the world!! http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/07/12/obamas-scramble-for-africa/ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: pdq Date: 13 Jul 12 - 11:15 AM Thank you for your contributions, Mr. Brannon. Nice to see somebody on Mudcat who does not parrot the Democratic National Committee talking points. Nave a nice day. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Stringsinger Date: 13 Jul 12 - 03:30 PM The DHS, the NSA, the FBI, and other bought agencies will make room in it for all of us. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 13 Jul 12 - 06:13 PM Someday the illegal occupation of Guantanamo Bay by the US will come to an end. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Don Firth Date: 13 Jul 12 - 06:15 PM The United States assumed territorial control over the southern portion of Guantánamo Bay under the 1903 Cuban-American Treaty, which granted it a perpetual lease on the area. It's a full American Naval Base, not just a coaling station. As to the American "Nazional Anthem" (which reveals quite a bit about YOUR prejudices, Branno), the poem was written in 1814 by the 35-year-old lawyer and amateur poet, Francis Scott Key, after witnessing the bombardment of Fort McHenry by the British Royal Navy ships in Chesapeake Bay during the Battle of Fort McHenry in the War of 1812. Sometime later, it was set to the tune of an English drinking song. It became the national anthem by a congressional resolution on March 3, 1931 and signed by President Herbert Hoover. As to the Marine's Hymn, the "shores of Tripoli" line has to do with the U. S. Marines, in 1805, helping to clean out the base of a group of Barbary pirates, who had been preying on international shipping—not unlike the Somali pirates and some pirates in Indonesian waters are doing these days. DO try to get it right! Go have yourself a beer and try to relax. You're hyperventilating. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Don Firth Date: 13 Jul 12 - 07:52 PM And in an attempt to add a bit of levity to a thread in which people seem to feel quite free to be generally rather nasty, singer and 12-string guitarist Leo Kottke tells us that "The Star-Spangled Banner" was written by his great-great-great-great-grandfather, Francis Kottke. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Bobert Date: 13 Jul 12 - 07:57 PM Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad, Don.... B;~) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Don Firth Date: 13 Jul 12 - 08:29 PM There are few things in this world more glorious that a really bad pun! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Sawzaw Date: 13 Jul 12 - 08:35 PM "At any rate, I have to wonder if the fiber optic system from Gitmo is being upgraded so Obama can get better feeds of the atrocities being committed there." I wondered if it might be for remote trials via CCTV. Fiber optic should be un-jamable, spyproof and not subject to outages due to weather or atmospheric conditions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Bobert Date: 13 Jul 12 - 08:44 PM Bottom line, Part #379... Gitmo is here to stay as long as the Repubs in Congress, especially in the House, won't pay to move the detainees... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Songwronger Date: 13 Jul 12 - 09:59 PM Bullshit. The Executive Order says the detainees, "...shall be returned to their home country, released, transferred to a third country, or transferred to another United States detention facility." No money is needed to release the detainees. So again, why hasn't Obama closed the dungeons at Gitmo? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Bobert Date: 13 Jul 12 - 10:20 PM Lots of these people have home countries that don't want them... And would kill them... So, if you use modern legal theory, you don't sent them there... It would be like giving them a death sentence without a trial... I agree, however, that if there is a level of assurance that these folks can return home and be safe then send 'um home... Here's the political part... If Obama were to do that he would be pelted by the republicans who would say that he is a terrorist Muslin releasing these people to fight against the US... This is the real part of the story... John Kennedy wnated to withdraw all of our troops and advisors from Vietnam in the summer of '63 but was afraid that he would be tagged a "commie lover" by the Republicans... He told his Chief of Staff that he'd have to wait until after his re-election... Sound familiar??? Obama told Medvedev purdy much the same thing about nukes... And the beat goes on... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Songwronger Date: 13 Jul 12 - 10:28 PM Obama listed the options for treatment of the detainees. No one held a gun to his head and made him include "release them" as an option. So what if the Republicans complain. You're saying that it's more important for Obama to play politics than to keep his word? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Bobert Date: 13 Jul 12 - 10:33 PM I'm saying that this ain't a one-size-fits-all that you seem to have reduced it to, wronger... The world is more complex than you seem to understand... There's something called gray... It lies between black and white... Most of these detainees is in the gray area... Plus, as I have stated, Obama can't give the Republicans a free card to pound him... That's the disadvantage of having to run for a 2nd term... Better to have a single 6 year term and not have to waste a 1st term playing safe... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Sawzaw Date: 13 Jul 12 - 11:24 PM "the Repubs in Congress, especially in the House" During the 100 day deadline Obama imposed on himself, The Republicans did not have the majority. The Democrats had the majority. ==================================================================== The bill was approved in an anticlimactic 307-to-114 roll call. Even if the Senate approves the measure, a more difficult question remains: what to do with those detainees who cannot be put on trial but are deemed too dangerous to transfer or let go. Mr. Obama has set a deadline of Jan. 22 to close the prison, which houses suspects captured in American military operations after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. The prison has become a focus of controversy, with critics saying that holding people there indefinitely without charges is contrary to American precepts. ================================================================= WASHINGTON — In a rare, bipartisan defeat for President Barack Obama, the Senate voted overwhelmingly Wednesday to keep the prison at Guantanamo Bay open for the foreseeable future and forbid the transfer of any detainees to facilities in the United States. Democrats lined up with Republicans in the 90-6 votethat came on the heels of a similar move a week ago in the House, underscoring widespread apprehension among Obama's congressional allies over voters' strong feelings about bringing detainees to the U.S. from the prison in Cuba. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 13 Jul 12 - 11:30 PM Bobert: "Lots of these people have home countries that don't want them... And would kill them... So, if you use modern legal theory, you don't sent them there... It would be like giving them a death sentence without a trial..." I'm so relieved to know that we have a President, and Government that is so benevolent, to keep detainees locked up in detention, in beautiful Guantanamo to protect them from their countries...I was starting to wonder about him. I thought it was only because they got speeding tickets, and overdue library books! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Bobert Date: 14 Jul 12 - 09:54 AM Here's the deal, GfinS... Like I pointed out, a president in his (or her) first term can do some things and cannot do others... President Kennedy decided in late summer of 1963 that he would pull all Americans out of Vietnam after his re-election and only ***after*** his re-election... Ya' see, the politics were ripe for the McCarthy-ites to resurface in the Republican Party and accuse him of being soft on communism... This is exactly where Obama is with Gitmo and disarmament talks with Russia... The Republicans are ready to pounce if he does anything unilaterally... That's the politics behind the policy... Should Obama be re-elected you can take it to the bank that he is going to push Gitmo back to the front burner... Doing it now would be stupid... It would give the Repubs a pouncing moment and the Repubs could still block anything that Obama wanted to do... No thanks to being lured into a trap!!! B~ BTW, dudja get my CD??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 14 Jul 12 - 10:23 AM The United States assumed territorial control over the southern portion of Guantánamo Bay under the 1903 Cuban-American Treaty, which granted it a perpetual lease on the area. That doesn't make it legal. It just demonstrates that the US gvernment was able to bully Cuba That's often enough happened with imperial powers. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: GUEST,Branno Date: 14 Jul 12 - 10:36 AM @Don Firth... Good to see you've done your homework. Firthtly, I must apologise for mistaking the 1812 incident for the much later (1898) 'incident' involving the sinking of the "Maine" that precipitated American intervention in Cuba. No-one is clear, to this day, what really happened there or why the ship exploded. It was, however, justification enough for war with Spain and coincidentally 'protection of American interests'. Thecondly, I would prefer an apology from you for gratuitous off-hand personal imprecations. I'm quite prepared for a civilized exchange of views, as sane and reasonable caring human beings, presumably with a shared interest in the essential substance of the Mudcat... I'm a very passionate man, and I am NOT an American, therefore my cultural ethos and the memes thereof are different to yours. That's how it is. Disprove me, or disapprove of me, but please don't insult me. I LIKE being wrong (sometimes...) I find it encourages learning new things, don't you? I used the term "Nazional" advisedly in reference to the anthem of the USA (in particular, although ALL such anthems in my opinion are anathema). Far smarter people than you or I continue to point out the awful slide into fully functional Fascism that increasingly clouds the world. You must be aware surely? Your country leads the way. The great democracy becomes the world-girdling endless-war Empire. George Orwell had Ingsoc. Today we're burdened with Americap. Please have ANOTHER revolution? PLease? Jefferson recommended it didn't he? Clean up your own back yard, feed your own poor and hungry, sort out your own domestic prisons, care for your own land. We don't want your millions mister. We don't want your star spangled supremacy everywhere we look. Happy Bastille day... Vive Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Jack the Sailor Date: 14 Jul 12 - 11:04 AM You know, Sawz, Wronger, President Obama won't miss your support. Have a nice cuppa tea and relax before you blow a blood vessel. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: GUEST,999 Date: 14 Jul 12 - 01:27 PM "Go have yourself a beer and try to relax." That wasn't addressed to me, but I usually take good advice even when it's addressed to someone else. Thanks, Don. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Don Firth Date: 14 Jul 12 - 03:04 PM Yeah, I think "Go have yourself a beer and try to relax" is good advice under any circumstances, except when you're driving or about to perform brain surgery. #### Branno, sorry if I got a bit snarky, but I'm sure you'll understand that your "Nazional Anthem" remark is an uncalled-for insult, along with your criticisms based on faulty knowledge. I agree with much of what you say about the problems in my country, but I'm also sure you will understand that there are plenty of Americans who are criticizing—and striving to replace—many of those in power for exactly the same reasons. Let me put it this way: I don't have a brother, but if I did, I may criticize him for his actions and attitudes, and my sister may criticize him for his actions and attitudes, but if someone outside the family starts accusing him, and by implication the rest of the family, of being a nest of Fascists, he's liable to engender a bit of resentment and animosity from me. And a word or two in his ear. There are few people more critical of the government of the United States than I am. But I am one of the many Americans who are striving to correct the abuses of money run amok and of self-serving applications of power. I might point out the historical context. Right now, the United States is not really doing anything that the Spanish were not doing in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries or the British in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. And Germany and Japan did it far more aggressively in the twentieth century. And in the late twentieth century, there was a push-pull between the Soviet Union and the United States until the Soviet Union folded. Question: When the United States finally settles into a somewhat wiser, less agressive, and more stable middle-age, who will be the next country to try to establish a world empire? #### To those who insist on getting on Obama's case about not freeing the Guantanamo detainees and closing the naval base: did you ever wonder why the detainees are there in the first place? Over 25% of the detainees who HAVE been released have returned to terrorist activities. Anyone who bitches about Obama not simply releasing them all is just not playing with a full deck. It would be totally irresponsible for him to do so. And, of course, Obama's critics would get on his case if he did THAT! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Bobert Date: 14 Jul 12 - 03:15 PM These Obama haters would hate Obama if he found a cure for cancer... They'd accuse him of trying to put doctors out of work... No changing them, Don... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Don Firth Date: 14 Jul 12 - 03:38 PM Exactly so, Bobert. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Bobert Date: 14 Jul 12 - 03:45 PM Speaking of TeaPubs.. Nice article in the WaPo by Exra Kline entitled "112th Congress Worst Ever?"... Long but well worth a read... BTW, Eric 'The Weasel" Cantor's numbers are down in his home district among... ...Republicans... Yup even those West End Richmond and Henrico County snobs are having 2nd thoughts about the Weasel... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Joe_F Date: 14 Jul 12 - 08:19 PM The evil is not in the Guantanamo Bay prison itself. That is only a symbol. We hired the place; if we want to use it for a prison, or a football field, or a golf course, fine. The evil is in the shysterlike utilization of the equivocal territorial status of Guantanamo to obstruct judicial & legislative oversight over what is done there. I gather that the Supreme Court is chipping away at that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 15 Jul 12 - 10:11 AM ""Question: When the United States finally settles into a somewhat wiser, less agressive, and more stable middle-age, who will be the next country to try to establish a world empire?"" A famous writer (I can't remember which one) commented that ""America is the only country to have gone from infancy to senility without an intervening period of maturity"". Reading the nonsense spouted by supposedly intelligent human beings, who fight against every attempt at progress toward those benefits I take for granted in the UK, it seems that period of ""somewhat wiser, less agressive, and more stable middle-age"" has been shunted onto a siding somewhere, and is languishing, forgotten and neglected by those who might have had a better life, had they been more open minded and generous. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 15 Jul 12 - 10:18 AM ""The evil is not in the Guantanamo Bay prison itself. That is only a symbol. We hired the place; if we want to use it for a prison, or a football field, or a golf course, fine."" Spot on Joe F! But I wouldn't be too sanguine about the US Supreme Court chipping away at the misuse. Don't forget that Supreme Court was pre-loaded by ole Geedubya, to support any crimes he might want to commit, and he certainly made good use of the opportunities for a bit of old fashioned torture, and abrogation of human rights. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 15 Jul 12 - 11:52 AM Bobert: "President Kennedy decided in late summer of 1963 that he would pull all Americans out of Vietnam after his re-election and only ***after*** his re-election... blah blah blah..." We had a treaty commitment to the French, that had us there even during the Eisenhower presidency....Kennedy did NOT want an escalation, and wanted to withdraw. It was under Johnson's administration that a LIE was sold to the American public, 'The Gulf of Ton-kin Incident' that got us totally involved with Vietnam and the war there!!! That war claimed 58,000 Americans lives, with over 60,000 deaths of American veterans who committed suicide upon or after their return....and tore the country apart, irreparably!! So don't tell me that the 'government' or a Democrat Party president doesn't lie to the American public, and Clinton and Obama are no exception!!!...That being said, the Bush and Nixon Administrations are a flaming example of the Republicans doing the same thing!!! It is people like you and others of your ilk, that promote this kind of behavior, from our 'leaders(?)', instead of DEMANDING the truth, and objecting to being LIED to REPEATEDLY!!!..by both of the corrupt, 'Special interests'..who just happen to be the same ones behind Kennedy/Dallas..so knock off all the pontificating about how 'swell' your boy Obama is....or Hillary, or Pelosi, or Reid, or 'Lincoln Savings and Trust' McCain, or Romney, or Bush...etc .etc. They are all completely corrupted front men, except for Bush-41, who was a direct player....and let go of the nonsensical 'debate' over which fucking liar, is the better man!!!! Play your music, and proclaim truth! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Bobert Date: 15 Jul 12 - 12:36 PM The fact o0f the matter, GfinS, is what I have been consistently saying about Gitmo: 1. It can't me moved because the TeaPubs won't fund the move... 2. It can't be shut down and everyone sent back to their countries because: a. Some of the folks there really are bad guys... b. If Obama were to do that he would more than likely suffer some serious consequences politically 3. The people held, at some point in time, need to have their cases adjudicated... Thems, for now, are the TRUTHS surrounding Gitmo... So, reality being what it is, given the TRUTHS of the situation "demanding" that people tell the truth is not going to get us anywhere... Getting the TeaPubs out of Washington, however, will create a climate where we move this sad and disgusting chapter along... It's not the Democrats or Obama that are blocking forward movement here, GfinS... It's the rabid TeaPubs who don't want any success for Obama... This is 100% right wing politics trumping policy... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 15 Jul 12 - 12:47 PM Stop trying to minimize the truth to fit another CORRUPT regime! You are better than that! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Bobert Date: 15 Jul 12 - 12:58 PM Guess again, GfinS... Hey, here's an idea... Perhaps you would like to offer your ideas for Gitmo in detail taking into account the current political climate in the US... BTW, "freedom" ain't a plan... Have at it... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 15 Jul 12 - 01:06 PM Bobert: "BTW, "freedom" ain't a plan.." Yeah, and its only the mist of it in the evaporation!!!! Bobert, You'd be a monster...if you could only clear that hurdle... (oh, and don't confuse a 'monster' with a 'dragon!') Regards, GfS BTW, I think your CD may be in our mailbox, and we'll be checkin' it, today. I'll let you know. (We are rural). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: GUEST,Branno Date: 19 Jul 12 - 11:20 AM Sometimes I wish I didn't care... BUT... I make the common mistake of underestimating that strange meme called 'Patriotism', especially in the case of USAns. I've been chided on this thread for questioning the rightness of things, as I'm not one of the family, not an American. However, given that the tentacular reach of Americanism pervades the planet, I feel both the right and the responsibility to say my piece as I choose, on this or any other forum. I have a copy of Martin Luther King's speech at the Riverside Church in NY 4th April 1967 in front of me, and having read it again, I feel moved to quote him. He quotes, "A time comes when silence is betrayal" and then goes on to say, "The truth of these words is beyond doubt but the mission to which they call us is a most difficult one. Even when pressed by the demands of inner truth, men do not easily assume the task of opposing their government's policy, especially in time of war. Nor does the human spirit move without great difficulty against all the apathy of conformist thought within one's own bosom and in the surrounding world." There's a lot more, of course, much of it apposite to today, perhaps even more so than 45 years ago, given the prophetic resonance of much of what he says about America, the dream and the lie, the endless wars on other people's soil, while the common good at home is ignored or worse... Now back to Guantanamo Bay, (in)famous coaling station. Remember David Hicks? Hint = think Australia. An interesting case, the first to be tried before a military tribunal. Here's what's become of his defence counsel... http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/hickss-military-lawyer- dons-civvies-for-australian-law-firm-20120715-224af.html CHeers brothers and sisters dBranno |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: pdq Date: 19 Jul 12 - 12:00 PM David Hicks went to Kosovo, Afghanistan and Pakistan (maybe more places) to support Islamic terrorists... In another letter on 10 August 2000, Hicks wrote from Kashmir claiming to have been a guest of Pakistan's army for two weeks at the front in the "controlled war" with India: "I got to fire hundreds of bullets. Most Muslim countries impose hanging for civilians arming themselves for conflict. There are not many countries in the world where a tourist, according to his visa, can go to stay with the army and shoot across the border at its enemy, legally." Yes, he says cheefully that he fired at citizens of India because they were not Muslims but whines that he spent a few years in Gitmo, almost a country club in a tropical paradise, it just has fences. Perhaps we should have taken him to India and let a few Hindus shoot at him? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: GUEST,999 Date: 19 Jul 12 - 12:19 PM I suppose the next logical step would be to deny defendants any rights to legal representation. Sure would ease the bottlenecks in the court system. A person could go straight from being accused to being incarcerated without the clumsy formality of a trial. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: Jack the Sailor Date: 19 Jul 12 - 01:17 PM Some of the worst abuses of Gitmo and the treatment of Muslims suspected of terrorism were rendered illegal by the Roberts Supreme Court. That shows you how off reservation the Bush people were. Its a mess for sure. But I don't think they are bringing new prisoners there now. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gitmo Prison here to stay? From: GUEST,Branno Date: 24 Jul 12 - 10:41 AM Hey guys! Don, Bobert, pdq... you up yet? http://www.salon.com/2012/07/23/the_obama_gitmo_myth/ |
