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Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen
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Subject: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser) Date: 18 May 12 - 08:16 AM A plaque erected in memory of two children killed by IRA bombs in Warrington, Cheshire, has been stolen. Jonathan Ball (3) and Tim Parry (12) were killed by bombs placed in litter bins in the streets of the town in 1993. Tim's father has been a prominent campaigner for peace and reconciliation ever since. He must be wondering why he bothered. The police are, for now, proceeding on the assumption that metal thieves are behind this - plaques and cemetery memorials are now frequently stolen and sold to scrap metal merchants. If there is a political dimension no-one is mentioning it - but I wouldn't rule it out. Words fail me. |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: John MacKenzie Date: 18 May 12 - 08:28 AM It certainly upset me too. There are not enough rude words in the world to describe the cretins who did this. All for about £30 worth of scrap metal. Why can't they ban cash payments at scrapyards? |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: Bernard Date: 18 May 12 - 08:30 AM I doubt that it's political - war memorials and railway equipment wiring are being targetted, too - when the traffic news says 'signalling problems are causing delays' they mean the wiring was nicked. It's really down to the scrap merchants to identify the scum. A law is likely to be passed preventing cash transactions, though I don't know if that will really help. I remember that plaque (and others) being unveiled - we provided the sound system for the ceremony, and for the funerals and memorial services around the town. |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: GUEST Date: 18 May 12 - 08:59 AM "All for about £30 worth of scrap metal." Thirty pounds can seem like a fortune to someone desperate for their next drug fix. When I read in the paper that someone was murdered in an argument over $5, I tell myself that it was probably for "$5 needed to buy illegal drugs." Not all metal thieves are amatueurs. A gang did thousands (perhaps millions) in damage to locomotives here in Kansas City. (It's hard to believe the locomotives weren't under some kind of guard.) |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker Date: 18 May 12 - 09:07 AM Where's town centre CCTV when it's most needed ??? |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: Lonesome EJ Date: 18 May 12 - 12:05 PM What does a scrap metal merchant do when he is presented with a memorial plaque, or a huge roll of brand new heavy gauge electrical wiring, such as that stolen from a friend of mine's building site? The onus is most definitely on these merchants, and it would seem a simple sting could be set up to nail them. |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: Stilly River Sage Date: 18 May 12 - 12:10 PM Here in Texas scrap metal buyers are supposed to collect information about the sellers. I don't know how well they do at that. I think there was a thread at Mudcat a while back about a scrap metal dealer destroying a bunch of stolen brass instruments. They were worth so much more as instruments, but he smashed them. SRS |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: Leadfingers Date: 18 May 12 - 12:18 PM Too many Scrap Yard operators are ONLY concerned about earning momey and dont care what distress they are causing by buying stolen material |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: John MacKenzie Date: 18 May 12 - 01:02 PM It's the old criminal fence mentality. The dealer knows it's stolen so he pays a lot less than it is worth. Then he melts it down, or crushes it beyond recognition. BINGO, more profit! |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: Dave Hanson Date: 18 May 12 - 02:45 PM Police are checking CCTV in Warrington, there appeared to be a camera overlooking the plaque. Dave H |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: Richard Bridge Date: 18 May 12 - 05:28 PM Proper recording of seller identity at scrap metal dealers and the banning of cash transactions would IMHO be very useful. |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: Leadfingers Date: 18 May 12 - 06:49 PM Makes me wonder how many scrap yard operatives are members of the local Conservative Party ! |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: GUEST Date: 19 May 12 - 04:45 AM We are having a plague of scrap thefts in the UK at the moment. I've had quite a bit stolen recently and, with my work on the railway know well that the theft of signal cabling worth, perhaps, a couple of hundred quid as scrap, can cause damage and delays costing over a million. Apparently, whilst there are scrap dealers who will take all with few questions asked, a lot of the theft is by Eastern European gangs who load it into containers and have it weighed in overseas. Occasionally we do have someone fry themselves on the 25kV overhead wires, one, a Bulgarian, apparently thought a pair of rubber gloves would protect him! |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: sapper82 Date: 19 May 12 - 05:09 AM that last was from me, lost my cookie! |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: John MacKenzie Date: 19 May 12 - 05:09 AM Bulgar Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeat |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: beachcomber Date: 19 May 12 - 05:41 AM There has been a rash of a similar sort in Ireland. Roadside metal memorials, articles of sculpture etc are being taken. Agricultural machinery, hitherto left carelessly in roadside fields is also being targeted. Even farm yard garages and stores have been hit. Electrical cabling of course is also being stolen now and , I have heard of a few cars as well. I don't believe that individuals are carrying out these robberies, I think that there are a number of roving gangs who are responsible. They must, obviously, have a large scale means of disposal also. |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 19 May 12 - 05:49 AM One little church in our six-church Benefice had all its lead stolen from the roof a couple of years ago. It must have weighed tons and needed heavy lifting equipment etc. The church is very isolated; they would have had all night to do it. These are definitely organised teams who know what they're doing. One solution IMO would be to use heavy quality resin products for memorials and plaques etc. They can look very realistic (can even have a 'verdigris' finish) and are totally worthless to metal thieves. There is also a product for church roofing which is also non-valuable to these people, but apparently it costs a lot to install initially. I too have heard that the thieves are from Eastern Europe, but I hesitate to condemn as this could just be prejudice. |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: Big Al Whittle Date: 19 May 12 - 06:05 AM that's a strange story. if the scrap metal was going abroad - wouldn't the gang be better off on the continent where the countryside is too big to police - and where they don't have to get it abroad? I bet the answer is nearer to home - a couple of herberts who noticed that it unscrewed quite easily. |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: MGM·Lion Date: 19 May 12 - 12:37 PM "Makes me wonder how many scrap yard operatives are members of the local Conservative Party !" ..,,., Leadfingers ~~ have read this over a dozen times; then backwards to see if that would raise the Devil; then set it in D·minor & sung it to the accommpt of 5 different instruments + my djembe and a borrowed bodhran ~~ and I still have not the remotest conception of what point whatever you were trying to make. However, please do not trouble yourself to endeavour to elucidate. ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: Big Al Whittle Date: 20 May 12 - 07:53 AM Well you see Mike, when Your mate Thatch brought British industry to extinction. She inadvertently started a couple of new industries. At the top of the the heap were Tiny Rowlands and the asset strippers. Further down the food chain were the scrapyards who made a fortune out of dismantling all those coal mines and and factories, which previously had all those nasty trade unionists with jobs inside. So the scrap industry and the industrial archaeology gang - well they owe their existence in many ways to St Margaret - twould be a bit crazy if they weren't tories. |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: Leadfingers Date: 20 May 12 - 03:18 PM I have to admit a certain Left Wing bias , but also acknowledge that New Labour didnt try to sort the problem out either ! |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: Big Al Whittle Date: 21 May 12 - 06:03 AM Oh come on LF! What were Blair and his merry cohorts supposed to do - Dennis and Mark had exported all the jobs abroad. there was stuff they could have done - like electoral reform, and dismantling the MI5/6, which had engineered her initial election victory (see Sycatcher) but Blair was as superficial as she was. |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: mayomick Date: 21 May 12 - 09:28 AM I really can't see these people being interested in politics one way or another . If the plaque had been dedicated to Thatcher they would have stolen it if they could. |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: Richard Bridge Date: 21 May 12 - 06:09 PM A propos I note that two Irish murderers (members of the continuity IRA) only this time of policemen have just been convicted. |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: Big Al Whittle Date: 21 May 12 - 07:32 PM Really can't see it being a political act. |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: Stilly River Sage Date: 21 May 12 - 08:34 PM Scrap metal theft is a huge problem here in the US, I'm sure there is no political aspect, it's pure thievery. Historic buildings, empty houses, air conditioning units on houses and businesses, metal roadside barriers, railroad tracks, metal poles for lights and such, you name it, these guys will take it. I helped a friend broom-clean his house when he was foreclosed last fall. The bank offered a substantial sum if he would empty it but we had to hire a 30-yard dumpster (a large open top bin for you in the UK). There was so much stuff in there that if the scrap metal folks with their pickups hadn't started coming by and asking to take stuff we'd never have fit everything in the dumpster. They squabbled among themselves at times if there was more than one in the yard, and they didn't always show a lot of common sense. I sent one family home to get better footgear because the woman was wearing flip flops. I figured my friend didn't need an insurance claim if she was hurt on the property. Anyway, this is a subsistence living for a lot of people - scrap metal picking today is what rag picking was 100 years ago. Mixed metals are okay with these folks, they get a base amount by the pound at the scrap yard. Those who want to live dangerously and make more money faster are the ones who target the private property that has high-dollar metals (copper wire, aluminum, steel). SRS |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: Rapparee Date: 21 May 12 - 09:22 PM The bad ones have been known to steal the aluminum siding off a house while the occupants are on vacation. You'd think the neighbors would notice, but no. They will also go into unoccupied houses and rip out the copper wiring when the electricity is turned off by the electric company or just turn it off at the mains. There is also a subculture here in the US that takes away used, broken appliances (washers, refrigerators, and so on) that are left by the curb for trash pickup. These people repair them and sell the repaired item to others for very low prices -- it's the only way some people can afford a fridge or washer. (The US Supreme Court has held, in a case involving Henry Kissinger(!), that items left out for trash pickup were considered "abandoned" and anyone could root around and take whatever they wanted.) |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: Seamus Kennedy Date: 21 May 12 - 11:39 PM A whole bridge stolen in Pennsylvania. here: |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: GUEST,JTT Date: 22 May 12 - 02:51 AM In Ireland, all kinds of metal are being stolen and sold; the big stuff to scrap merchants, presumably, and priceless family jewellery to "We Buy Gold" shops that have sprung up during the recession, and appear to be completely un-policed. (This theft is made more feasible by the fact that banks no longer offer strongboxes here.) Friends of mine who live in the Dublin Mountains drove up their entry road a couple of months back and discovered that someone had taken the big metal plates protecting the road surface where they turn onto the road. |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 22 May 12 - 06:12 AM We get drain and man hole covers nicked. Very expensive, trivial value and deadly. |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 22 May 12 - 07:03 AM Stilly River Sage, interesting that they're called 'dumpsters' in US. Here we call it a 'skip'. It's actually illegal to rummage through a skip outside a house, but no-one takes any notice of that law. Often, people come and take a lot of stuff out, then others (very cheekily) come in the night and dump stuff in, saving themselves the cost of hiring a skip themselves. (A medium-sized skip is over £100 to hire.) I don't think there's anything political in all this theft, it's just thieves making money. I also believe that scrap-metal merchants have always done illicit business on the side, as have many dealers and receivers of second-hand goods, cars etc. |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: Stilly River Sage Date: 22 May 12 - 11:31 AM We have "bin diving" here also - when people discard perfectly good or usable things there is no problem with retrieving it and using or selling it. I've made several hundred dollars selling chandeliers and ornamental brass light fixtures that people took down and left at the curb over the years. Cleaned them and sold them on eBay. It's when people enter the property with intent to do damage in order to enrich themselves the problem begins. This has been going on a long long time. In 1978 I started a job at Ellis Island, the old immigrant processing station in New York Harbor, and as we toured the site in hard hats it was pointed out that the generator building was a particular mess because vandals went out to the island and night and stole the copper out of the machinery. The island was empty from 1954 to 1965, a nominal one guard house built on a corner of the ferry slip. In those years people used to dock at the back of the island (coming over from Jersey City) and probably spend hours at a time ransacking the place. SRS |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: mayomick Date: 23 May 12 - 06:50 AM Chris thinks there is a political dimension to the theft.I can only assume that he thinks that an Irish republican group could be responsible . The provos are now signed-up to the peace process with their former chief of staff now the north's Deputy First Minister. I don't think that McGuinness' worst unionist critic would say that the provos were involved in the theft of this plaque . Richard Bridge seems to think that the Continuity IRA may have had something to do with it, but the idea of them sending a unit over for the operation really seems very far-fetched to me. What would they gain other than bad publicity ? This was just the work of thieves. |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: GUEST Date: 23 May 12 - 07:59 AM This has nothing to do with the IRA. No one in their right mind could think like it. The elephant in the room is, police know who steals metal plaques (mostly bronze)and it is not PC to say it in case it causes offence. |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: Big Al Whittle Date: 23 May 12 - 08:02 AM well go on....whodunnit? I can't believe the police wouldn't recover the plaque and arrest the wrongdoers if they could. Why wouldn't they? |
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Subject: RE: Memorial to kids murdered by IRA stolen From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker Date: 23 May 12 - 08:10 AM Yesterday.. Taunton to Bristol Temple Meads rail journey crippled by delays and lengthy alternative coach road travel arrangements due to fire caused by 'vandalism' to signal cable equipment.. Possibly still ongoing until cable can be replaced and tested........ Bastards.. got home so late we missed the finale episode of "Vampire Diaries" |
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