 sj |
||
|
||
BS: 'No sadder sight...'
|
|
|
Subject: BS: 'No sadder sight...' From: MGM·Lion Date: 18 Dec 11 - 12:08 AM "There is no sadder sight than a young pessimist." Mark Twain. My own gloss-for-today on this would be to substitute the word "smoker" for pessimist. In my youth, we all did because it was a rite de passage & a near-universal usage and slightly eccentric not to; and we didn't know what the idiot habit could do to you. Now we do know, but so many young people will still do it ~~ Tears & alas! (And, BTW, unhappily, some older people who should know better, as an, IMO, idiot gesture of delayed-adolescent bravado and an empty gesture they mistake for a snook cocked at the "nanny state"; many of whom will write in a self-consciously & self-righteously defiant tone about it on this forum & in the pages of The Spectator.) A dual thread this, really, as two separate ?s arise from the quote & my response. 1. What do you think of my comments on young people smoking? 2. What would be your nomination, in the same spirit as the original, for Twain's "no sadder sight"? ~Michael~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: 'No sadder sight...' From: Bert Date: 18 Dec 11 - 12:11 AM no sadder sight than a person who supports a criminal and blames the victim for a crime. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: 'No sadder sight...' From: Jack the Sailor Date: 18 Dec 11 - 12:50 AM Any person at any age addicted you self damaging substances an/or behaviors is sad. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: 'No sadder sight...' From: Jim Dixon Date: 18 Dec 11 - 01:34 AM I once saw a cartoon in the New Yorker. The scene was a doctor's waiting room. The sign on the door said "Dr. Kevorkian." Another sign said "Go ahead and smoke. What the heck." It's a joke, but it conceals a truth: You have to be a little suicidal to want to smoke. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: 'No sadder sight...' From: Jack the Sailor Date: 18 Dec 11 - 01:46 AM "You have to be a little suicidal to want to smoke." I think there is something to that. The stereotype of the hot rodder or biker driving dangerously then lighting one up is a strong one. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: 'No sadder sight...' From: Paul Burke Date: 18 Dec 11 - 05:35 AM Ihr Raecker! Wollt ihr ewig leben? As Frederick the Great of Prussia is supposed to have said when he found his guards cowering behind a wall during a battle. You scoundrels! Do you want to live forever? We have left young people with the prospect of a life of debt, poverty and insecurity. And then we castigate them for not thinking of the long term. And having seen the life of (some) old people, I'm not at all sure I want to live another 25 years myself, for I know there are worse things than dying. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: 'No sadder sight...' From: Musket Date: 18 Dec 11 - 08:34 AM Name one? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: 'No sadder sight...' From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 18 Dec 11 - 11:49 AM If you're thinking of a helpless victim like the Pentagon there, exbarrassed to have it's incompetence revealed to the world by a hacker, bert, I can't agree... But that belongs in another thread. ........................... I think Mark Twain's comment is very true, and particularly relevant in today's world. Yes, it's a pity that young people do things that hurt them, but that has always happened - but when they give up on life, even when that is the "realistic" thing to do, that is really sad. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: 'No sadder sight...' From: Greg F. Date: 18 Dec 11 - 12:09 PM What would be your nomination, in the same spirit as the original, for Twain's "no sadder sight"? Read Twain's "Letters From The Earth" & his autobiography, vol. 1 recently published. He himself deals with plenty of "sadder sights" there. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: 'No sadder sight...' From: kendall Date: 18 Dec 11 - 01:11 PM That is a great book! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: 'No sadder sight...' From: kendall Date: 18 Dec 11 - 01:14 PM Sometimes when I see a smoker "enjoying" his coffin nail I say, "Do you mind if I smell your smoke? I quit after 47 years and all it cost me was $100,000 or so, and my voice. They never reply. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: 'No sadder sight...' From: KHNic Date: 18 Dec 11 - 01:20 PM Have been smoke free for four weeks after 30 years of smoking. No sadder sight than a man twitching at the thought of a cigarette. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: 'No sadder sight...' From: Don Firth Date: 18 Dec 11 - 01:37 PM I think one of the sadder things around are those people who, in times of political strife or crisis such as what the United States is facing now, keep intoning that "the fix is in," and the Powers That Be are far too strong and entrenched to oppose, so you may as well just give up! My response to this kind of stuff is, "If you're not going to lend a hand, then shut up and get out of the way!" Don Firth |
|
Subject: RE: BS: 'No sadder sight...' From: kendall Date: 18 Dec 11 - 04:22 PM There is no sadder sight than seeing one of my dear girls smoking or smelling like they have been. You can not disguise it you know. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: 'No sadder sight...' From: Rapparee Date: 18 Dec 11 - 07:04 PM Name one thing worse? Slavery, sexual and otherwise. War. Famine. Ignorance. Grinding poverty. REAL hunger. Absolute lack of hope -- which can give birth to real change. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: 'No sadder sight...' From: Dorothy Parshall Date: 19 Dec 11 - 07:04 PM Lack of hope cannot give birth to anything. But righteous indignation can. Meeting just one other person who feels the same way - and now we are two! Then we are a small group - as in Margaret Mead's important quote - ready to change the world. Or give it a good effort. There sure are a lot of sad sights. Which one are you working on eliminating? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: 'No sadder sight...' From: gnu Date: 19 Dec 11 - 07:34 PM Kendall... do what ya gotta do, but ya know how hard it is to quit. I know some days me Mum wants to go home early from our walks at the shops when I cough. I know it hurts her deeply (she lost a husband and a son to smoking) just as you have said it hurts you. But it's just hard to do. Then again, do what ya gotta do... it just might work or help, and that's a good thing. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: 'No sadder sight...' From: MGM·Lion Date: 20 Dec 11 - 12:51 AM Rap ~ "worse" was not asked for, but "sadder" ~~ & I specified in OP, 'in the spirit of Twain's original', (i.e. somewhat tongue-in-cheek as one would expect of Twain) quote. Your above post 0704 pm is cogent - but perhaps a bit OTT serious for the 'spirit' of the thread? ~M~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: 'No sadder sight...' From: Jack the Sailor Date: 20 Dec 11 - 04:14 AM "There is no sadder sight than a young pessimist." Mark Twain Of course there are sadder sights. Any group of two or more young pessimists. Sadder still, young Republicans. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: 'No sadder sight...' From: GUEST,Patsy Date: 20 Dec 11 - 04:20 AM |
|
Subject: RE: BS: 'No sadder sight...' From: Richard Bridge Date: 20 Dec 11 - 04:29 AM In the scale of things, smoking is a trivial ill. Greater sadnesses (without limitation)? The rich stealing from the poor. Continuing xenophobia and government policy based on it. The undoing of the welfare state. A "Green" councillor crossing the floor to the conservatives - the ungreenest government for generations. Money from the Fukushima relief effort being used to subsidise the Japanese whaling fleet. Attacks on the rule of law. The sheer evil of current Republican politics. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: 'No sadder sight...' From: MGM·Lion Date: 20 Dec 11 - 05:17 AM All lamentable,indeed, Richard ~~ but imo greater/lesser considerations are invidious here: I still think smoking is right up with those, esp among young people who know what we didn't know? Out of interest ~~ do you smoke? I had my last small cigar 3 April 1974, in the Little Rose pub in Trumpington St, Cambridge, after regular smoking for more than 25 years. ~M~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: 'No sadder sight...' From: GUEST,Patsy Date: 20 Dec 11 - 06:03 AM With all the knowledge now about the risks of smoking it does surprise me that so many young people still do it and some seem to think that because it is a roll-up rather than a commercial brand that it is somehow more acceptible. I don't understand why that should be. We still see the odd play or soap opera that shows cigarette smoking, not blatant advertising like it used to be but still in a way that makes it attractive or enjoyable. I personally would be happy to see it stopped but to censor it completely from programs, movies or plays wouldn't that be unrealistic and going too far? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: 'No sadder sight...' From: Richard Bridge Date: 20 Dec 11 - 06:08 AM I am an ex-smoker. I stopped - let me think - about 1991 or 1992 having smoked between 10 and 20 a day from about 1967. It was not I who introduced the element of comparison - "no sadder than" involves comparison. Patsy, IIRC roll-ups are less toxic. Something to do with saltpetre in the paper. I have no objection to smoking - sometimes smoker visitors to my house are surprised that I am embarrassed by the idea that I would make them go to smoke outside. Very inhospitable, that would be. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: 'No sadder sight...' From: MGM·Lion Date: 20 Dec 11 - 06:25 AM I agree with you on this last point, Richard: smoking guests, as a matter of courtesy, are never made to feel unwelcome. I note with interest, however, that nowadays many of them regard it as a courtesy to go out into the garden for the purpose ~~ a definite change, & IMO improvement, in social expectations, that appears to me. But I would never make such a demand off my own bat, of course. ~M~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: 'No sadder sight...' From: ChrisJBrady Date: 20 Dec 11 - 07:14 AM 'No sadder sight' than seeing a young person injecting heroin or smoking crack or indeed taking any form of illegal drug and ending up in hospital or worse. But the 20 most dangerous drugs listed by BBC Horizon includes tobacco... http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-20-most-dangerous-drugs/ http://www.listology.com/list/top-twenty-most-dangerous-drugs-according-bbc-horizon * Heroin A * Cocaine A * Barbiturates (Sedatives) B * Methadone (Opioid) A * Alcohol Legal * Ketamine C * Benzodiazepines (Sedatives) C * Amphetamine (Speed) B * Tobacco legal * Buprenorphine (Opioid) C * Cannabis C * Solvents Legal * 4-methylthioamphetamine (amphetamine derivative) A * LSD A * Methylphenidate(Ritalin) B * Anabolic steroids C * Gamma 4-hydroxybutyric acid (depressant, "date-rape drug") C * Ecstasy A * Amyl Nitrate (nitrite inhalants, "poppers") Legal * Khat (plant-derived stimulant) Legal (illegal in USA) Author Comments: The letter system is a reference to the UK class rating of the drug. I don't know why Crystal Meth isn't here, maybe they counted it as Amphetamines. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: 'No sadder sight...' From: GUEST,Patsy Date: 20 Dec 11 - 10:49 AM Like Richard feel embarrassed for friends to have to go outside too but they happily accept it as the thing to do and will make sure that cigarette butts are disposed of no problem. I am an ex-smoker too which is another reason I would like the act of smoking look less appealing on programs, for selfish reasons apart from anything else. Perhaps they could have a warning before the program begins just in the same way that anything containing strong language and scenes of a sexual nature would then it is up to the individual family to control. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: 'No sadder sight...' From: GUEST,mg Date: 20 Dec 11 - 06:51 PM We have left young people with the prospect of a life of debt, poverty and insecurity. And then we castigate them for not thinking of the long term. ...... I disagree. We have no idea of what kind of world we have left them, but we have not had a world war since 1945..a miracle. We have way cheap energy that we just have to install and use. We have books that a thousand can fit on the palm of your hand. We have probably cleaner air, better if too much medicine, literacy increasing all over the world, reducing of population growth and in many cases reversal..we have a lessening grip of some harmful aspect of religion. We still have the ability to grow food although we are so stupid as to build strip malls on it and turn our clean water into sewage..but we will get smarter there. We have a world that increasingly speaks at least two languages..unfortunately one is English and probably not the best choice but there it is and communication will be easier. We have a questionably better educated population, but with vastly reduced skills in many necessary areas and that has to be remedied. We are addicted to cheap starches but now we know they are the root of diabetes and all sorts of health problems so we can change that. I say we turned the corner, and barring war or natural disasters things will steadily improve. As for the young people, there will probably be a rush of jobs for them at some point..we don't know when, as people retire, as new industries form. Some have to go back into agriculture, which will be wonderful as we have some bad agricultural practices and need more human labor. They will find their own way. They will have fewer children and fewer possessions and probably quit going to elite colleges but I think by and large they will be OK. mg |
|
Subject: RE: BS: 'No sadder sight...' From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 20 Dec 11 - 07:02 PM I think most smokers these days would be aware that good manners require that they should offer to go outside in order to smoke. It has always been normal good manners to ask permission before lighting up in someone's house. Of course the concept of good manners isn't universally understood... ......................................... But I think Twain's aphorism isn't intended to be taken as literally true, inviting us to set out to try to weigh a range of human evils in some metaphysical scales, but rather as expressing a truth about the soul-destroying quality of lack of hope, despair, which closes down the future - and of course is a major cause of stuff like drug abuse. Kipling expressed something similar in his poem Dayspring Mishandled. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: 'No sadder sight...' From: Joe_F Date: 20 Dec 11 - 08:25 PM There was another New Yorker cartoon that showed a customer asking a bartender for a light, and being told "We aren't allowed to rot your lungs any more. We only do livers." |
|
Subject: RE: BS: 'No sadder sight...' From: gnu Date: 21 Dec 11 - 06:21 PM Good one, Joe! I smoke. When I have a guest in my house, I ask the guest if they mind if I smoke. Most often, they say it's my house and I relpy it's their lungs. Sometimes, I just do not smoke when certain guests are over... some ex smokers, people with diminished lung capacity (elderly), NEVER around children... it just seems the right thing to do. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: 'No sadder sight...' From: Greg F. Date: 22 Dec 11 - 08:47 AM but we have not had a world war since 1945. "World war"? How many people worldwide have died in the "less than world" wars that have been going on continuously since 1945? Many of them needlessly begun by & for U.S. interests? |
