Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafesj

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


BS: Greatest traitor in US history?

Songwronger 16 Dec 11 - 12:14 AM
michaelr 16 Dec 11 - 12:17 AM
Jack the Sailor 16 Dec 11 - 12:22 AM
Little Hawk 16 Dec 11 - 12:33 AM
number 6 16 Dec 11 - 12:58 AM
Little Hawk 16 Dec 11 - 01:08 AM
Jim Dixon 16 Dec 11 - 01:27 AM
Little Hawk 16 Dec 11 - 01:35 AM
GUEST,999 16 Dec 11 - 02:53 AM
GUEST,999 16 Dec 11 - 05:21 AM
Brian May 16 Dec 11 - 07:32 AM
Big Al Whittle 16 Dec 11 - 08:13 AM
artbrooks 16 Dec 11 - 08:53 AM
Greg F. 16 Dec 11 - 09:42 AM
McGrath of Harlow 16 Dec 11 - 09:48 AM
Amos 16 Dec 11 - 09:53 AM
Jim Dixon 16 Dec 11 - 09:55 AM
Jack the Sailor 16 Dec 11 - 09:56 AM
number 6 16 Dec 11 - 10:38 AM
Jack Campin 16 Dec 11 - 10:38 AM
Little Hawk 16 Dec 11 - 11:49 AM
Bobert 16 Dec 11 - 12:15 PM
Jim Dixon 16 Dec 11 - 12:41 PM
Little Hawk 16 Dec 11 - 12:42 PM
Bobert 16 Dec 11 - 01:07 PM
Rapparee 16 Dec 11 - 01:10 PM
Songwronger 16 Dec 11 - 01:28 PM
Bobert 16 Dec 11 - 01:33 PM
Greg F. 16 Dec 11 - 01:58 PM
goatfell 16 Dec 11 - 01:58 PM
McGrath of Harlow 16 Dec 11 - 02:20 PM
GUEST,Wesley S 16 Dec 11 - 02:33 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 16 Dec 11 - 02:42 PM
Little Hawk 16 Dec 11 - 03:06 PM
Stringsinger 16 Dec 11 - 03:16 PM
Donuel 16 Dec 11 - 03:20 PM
Jim Dixon 16 Dec 11 - 04:11 PM
Greg F. 16 Dec 11 - 04:31 PM
GUEST,999 16 Dec 11 - 04:34 PM
Greg F. 16 Dec 11 - 04:47 PM
Jack the Sailor 16 Dec 11 - 06:34 PM
Big Al Whittle 16 Dec 11 - 06:49 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 16 Dec 11 - 07:14 PM
GUEST,josepp 16 Dec 11 - 07:30 PM
GUEST,josepp 16 Dec 11 - 07:33 PM
Big Al Whittle 16 Dec 11 - 10:40 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 16 Dec 11 - 11:38 PM
Songwronger 16 Dec 11 - 11:38 PM
Little Hawk 17 Dec 11 - 12:00 AM
Richard Bridge 17 Dec 11 - 04:25 AM
Big Al Whittle 17 Dec 11 - 04:43 AM
McGrath of Harlow 17 Dec 11 - 06:56 AM
Big Al Whittle 17 Dec 11 - 07:27 AM
Big Al Whittle 17 Dec 11 - 07:31 AM
McGrath of Harlow 17 Dec 11 - 09:45 AM
Little Hawk 17 Dec 11 - 01:14 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 17 Dec 11 - 03:21 PM
Little Hawk 17 Dec 11 - 05:51 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 17 Dec 11 - 06:57 PM
kendall 17 Dec 11 - 07:38 PM
Little Hawk 17 Dec 11 - 09:21 PM
HuwG 18 Dec 11 - 02:10 AM
McGrath of Harlow 18 Dec 11 - 11:59 AM
Songwronger 18 Dec 11 - 07:36 PM
Big Al Whittle 18 Dec 11 - 09:15 PM
ollaimh 18 Dec 11 - 11:39 PM
GUEST, Eb 19 Dec 11 - 12:04 AM
Little Hawk 19 Dec 11 - 05:19 PM
Songwronger 19 Dec 11 - 07:56 PM
gnu 19 Dec 11 - 08:02 PM
Bobert 19 Dec 11 - 08:39 PM
Songwronger 19 Dec 11 - 08:42 PM
Songwronger 19 Dec 11 - 09:00 PM
Don Firth 19 Dec 11 - 09:08 PM
Little Hawk 19 Dec 11 - 11:45 PM
Ebbie 20 Dec 11 - 12:36 AM
Greg F. 20 Dec 11 - 10:15 AM
Ebbie 20 Dec 11 - 12:07 PM
GUEST,Wesley S 20 Dec 11 - 12:33 PM
Little Hawk 20 Dec 11 - 05:45 PM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Dec 11 - 06:09 PM
Songwronger 20 Dec 11 - 08:31 PM
Don Firth 20 Dec 11 - 09:08 PM
Elmore 20 Dec 11 - 09:54 PM
Songwronger 20 Dec 11 - 11:32 PM
Don Firth 21 Dec 11 - 12:40 AM
Big Al Whittle 21 Dec 11 - 02:25 AM
Greg F. 21 Dec 11 - 01:59 PM
GUEST,Chongo Chimp 21 Dec 11 - 02:05 PM
Don Firth 21 Dec 11 - 04:57 PM
Songwronger 21 Dec 11 - 07:14 PM
Big Al Whittle 22 Dec 11 - 04:40 AM
Songwronger 26 Dec 11 - 07:37 PM
Songwronger 26 Dec 11 - 07:43 PM
Songwronger 26 Dec 11 - 07:48 PM
gnu 26 Dec 11 - 08:53 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 26 Dec 11 - 08:56 PM
ollaimh 26 Dec 11 - 10:36 PM
Little Hawk 26 Dec 11 - 11:01 PM
Joe Offer 26 Dec 11 - 11:26 PM
Songwronger 26 Dec 11 - 11:41 PM
Ebbie 27 Dec 11 - 02:33 AM
Little Hawk 27 Dec 11 - 12:30 PM
GUEST,999 27 Dec 11 - 06:28 PM
Little Hawk 27 Dec 11 - 06:43 PM
Bobert 27 Dec 11 - 06:50 PM
artbrooks 27 Dec 11 - 08:12 PM
pdq 27 Dec 11 - 08:34 PM
Little Hawk 27 Dec 11 - 11:26 PM
michaelr 27 Dec 11 - 11:52 PM
GUEST,999 28 Dec 11 - 12:01 AM
GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser) 28 Dec 11 - 06:02 AM
Songwronger 28 Dec 11 - 07:25 PM
Beer 28 Dec 11 - 11:09 PM
Beer 28 Dec 11 - 11:25 PM
Beer 28 Dec 11 - 11:33 PM
GUEST,999 29 Dec 11 - 06:10 AM
Songwronger 23 Feb 12 - 07:47 PM
number 6 23 Feb 12 - 08:22 PM
gnu 24 Feb 12 - 01:35 PM
kendall 24 Feb 12 - 08:58 PM
GUEST 24 Feb 12 - 11:36 PM
Little Hawk 25 Feb 12 - 12:20 AM
Big Al Whittle 25 Feb 12 - 08:47 AM
kendall 25 Feb 12 - 10:49 AM
GUEST 25 Feb 12 - 10:55 AM
Little Hawk 25 Feb 12 - 11:26 AM
Songwronger 09 Mar 12 - 07:59 PM
Songwronger 09 Mar 12 - 08:14 PM
Big Al Whittle 09 Mar 12 - 08:30 PM
Joe Offer 09 Mar 12 - 08:59 PM
Songwronger 18 Mar 12 - 07:47 PM
The Sandman 19 Mar 12 - 06:04 PM
gnu 19 Mar 12 - 06:31 PM
Songwronger 14 Oct 12 - 07:06 PM
Greg F. 14 Oct 12 - 09:17 PM
Songwronger 14 Oct 12 - 09:41 PM
GUEST,nobody in particular 14 Oct 12 - 09:52 PM
Songwronger 09 Sep 13 - 06:30 PM
Don Firth 09 Sep 13 - 07:10 PM
Songwronger 09 Sep 13 - 09:02 PM
Donuel 09 Sep 13 - 09:09 PM
Donuel 09 Sep 13 - 09:13 PM
Songwronger 09 Sep 13 - 09:19 PM

Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum Child
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:













Subject: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Songwronger
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 12:14 AM

Who is the greatest traitor in U.S. history? Some might say Benedict Arnold or the Rosenbergs or such like, but as of right now I would say Woodrow Wilson. He oversaw the transfer of the U.S. financial system to the privately-owned Federal Reserve system. Duties that should be performed by our Treasury are now performed by Goldman Sachs and Wells Fargo and Chase. This was a MASSIVE betrayal of his oath of office.

I never thought I would see anyone exceed that treason, but I think I'm about to.

Barrack Obama made it into my top ten list of traitors when he began killing American citizens and saying he did not have to answer to anyone for it. And now he's poised to sign the National Defense Authorization Act of 2012. When he does, he will be claiming the power to abrogate the U.S. Constitution. He will be claiming that you have no right to life, and to punctuate the statement he will be unleashing the military on you.

This will make him the greatest traitor the U.S. has ever produced.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: michaelr
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 12:17 AM

Haven't I been saying he's a ringer?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 12:22 AM

Nice fantasy.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 12:33 AM

I agree about Woodrow Wilson and the creation of the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank. People who aren't aware of how that came about during Wilson's term in office might benefit from doing some reading on the subject.

But to find a "greatest traitor" is not easy. Nor is it necessarily helpful. Rather than focusing on individuals to blame, I think it's more instructive to look at how the entire finance/government system functions...and how (almost all) USA presidents become not much more than helpless puppets once they are elected and in its grasp.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: number 6
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 12:58 AM

I'm with LH with this one in regards to focusing on one individual to blame ..... greatest traitor would be the Corporate Oligarchi or what I call the machine .... think about it .... it's a traitor not only to the U.S, but also to world humanity.

biLL


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 01:08 AM

Yup. And to Mother Nature, the planet, and every living thing on it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 01:27 AM

The Federal Reserve is privately owned? Can I buy stock in it?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 01:35 AM

I'm not sure. That would depend on whether they are selling shares on the open market, wouldn't it? Look it up. There are a great many sources of information out there which can easily confirm the private ownership of the Federal Reserve Bank. A number of fine books have been written about it. Go to Amazon.com and order one of them and read it. The Federal Reserve Bank is a privately owned corporation. They're in it for their own profit.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 02:53 AM

1) Read Executive Order 11110

2) Find out when
    a) the Federal Reserve was created
    b) the income tax was created


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 05:21 AM

"Who is the greatest traitor in U.S. history?"

Likely the bankers who have screwed the people of the USA--and the rest of the world.

OTOH, one of its greatest patriots may have been JFK. He was going to warn the American people about the Federal Reserve and less than two weeks later his light went out in Dallas.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Brian May
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 07:32 AM

George W surely, look what he got you all into . . .


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 08:13 AM

Yes indeed - if you'd have behaved better in 1775-83, you'd be talking proper like Hugh Grant. You might have got shire status by now. I bet you'd have liked to be Texas-shire, or Arizona-shire or California-shire.

However the offer is withdrawn, and you'll just have to manage without our kindly ruling hand.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: artbrooks
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 08:53 AM

The members of the Federal Reserve Board, who are nominated by the president and confirmed by the senate, would be surprised to find that they really work for Goldman Sacs. In fact, since the latter isn't a bank, it isn't allowed to belong to the local Federal Reserve Bank.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 09:42 AM

Well, lets see ----- we've got Dick Nixon (Watergate), Ron Reagan (Iran-Contra), Ollie North (ditto), Tailgunner Joe McCarthy and .......um...... too many to mention.........


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 09:48 AM

Treason Doth Never Prosper: What 's The Reason?
Why, If It Prosper, None Dare Call It Treason.


On which basis, perhaps George Washington?...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Amos
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 09:53 AM

I think the NDAA is the most ill-conceived piece of trash in the midden of COngress in years.

If Obama signs it, I will be disappointed, as the problems it purports to resolve could be addressed in much less poisonous ways.

However, even if he does, he is not committing an act of treason.

A


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 09:55 AM

If you're going to rank the worst things a politician can do, it seems to me starting an unnecessary war would be at the top of the list.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 09:56 AM

I'd nominate for the greatest traitor, the looney who made up all of this nonsense about the Federal Reserve.

Can Rupert Murdoch be nominated? Or do you have to be a citizen?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: number 6
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 10:38 AM

One traitor that should be mentioned in this thread is the mainstream media ... but then again, they are (like the president) subservient to the 'machine'.

biLL


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 10:38 AM

Murdoch is a US citizen, but I don't think he's got into the same league as Henry Ford the Nazi yet.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 11:49 AM

Big Al Whittle - "the offer is withdrawn, and you'll just have to manage without our kindly ruling hand."

You're a hard man, Big Al. ;-D


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 12:15 PM

Technically speaking it would have to be Jefferson Davis... But in resupplying Sumpter in the winter of 1961 knowing that it was going to very probably provoke the South, Lincoln gets an "DisHonorable" Mention...

B~


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 12:41 PM

So...what if Lincoln hadn't resupplied Fort Sumter when he did? Are you saying the war would have been avoided? What then?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 12:42 PM

Hmmm. Well, but one man's traitor is another man's patriot, Bobert. ;-D And it's always been that way.

Benedict Arnold, for instance, started out as a very fine general for the American Revolution. That made him a hero and patriot to the Revolutionaries, a traitor to the British Crown.

He then became very disgruntled over not receiving what he considered proper recognition for his services to the Revolution, and he switched sides and joined the British! That made him a traitor to the Revolution, but a hero and patriot to the British Crown.

The British eventually lost the war. This deprived Benedict Arnold of the chance to be remembered as a hero and patriot...the British no longer needed him...so he is remembered by the victors of the Revolution as a traitor.

It's ALL arbitrary. Don't you think that if the Revolution had failed that generations of school children would have since been honoring Benedict Arnold as a hero of that war? We honor Nazis who turned against Hitler, don't we? They're considered to have been tragic heroes. But they were "traitors" in the view of their own government, and had their own government won the war, they'd still be seen as "traitors".

****

I'm not implying in the above that different sides are necessarily morally equivalent in a war. The Nazis were a terribly bad outfit, and they deserved to lose. I'm just saying that the line between "traitor" and "patriot" is an extremely subjective one, depending on whose horse you are backing in the race.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 01:07 PM

Takes two to tango, Jim... Lincoln and Davis each did their parts...

B~


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 01:10 PM

Aaron Burr and James Wilkinson.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Songwronger
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 01:28 PM

Obama has given us Executive branch murder of American citizens for reasons he doesn't have to divulge, and soon he will give us the "legal" the disappearing of Americans. Dick Nixon's crime was that he tinkered with a tape recorder and lied about Watergate knowledge. Compare that to Obama saying he has the right to snatch you off the street, rendition you to Egypt and torture you for the rest of your days.

George W. Bush is on my list of top ten traitors too, but he's turning out to be a piker compared to Obama.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 01:33 PM

Mythology by any other name is still mythology, wrong... You got more than the song wrong...

BTW, I guess you think that Obama was born in Kenya, is a Muslim and perhaps even kidnapped the Limburg baby...

Where do you people come up with all these conspiracy theories...

This belongs up in the Obama haters thread...

B~


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 01:58 PM

Technically speaking it would have to be Jefferson Davis.

While I wouldn't claim Davis to be "the greatest", his taking up arms and waging war against the U.S. government is hardly a technicality.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: goatfell
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 01:58 PM

nixon


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 02:20 PM

Dick Nixon's crime was that he tinkered with a tape recorder and lied about Watergate knowledge.

Of course the enormous numbers of slaughtered civilians in Indochina, including the terrorist "peace offensive" bombing don't count - nor the millions of victims of Agent Orange, continuing to this day.

But I suppose those are war crimes rather than "treason".


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 02:33 PM

Fox News.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 02:42 PM

Reasurring that no-one here, at least, thinks it's Bradley Manning.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 03:06 PM

"the Limburg baby"

Was that the son of the famous cheese magnate? ;-)

I couldn't care less if Obama had been born in Kenya or was a Muslim. As far as I'm concerned, that wouldn't matter...it would have no effect on his character, his intelligence or his ability to be a good president. People born in Kenya are no better or worse than other people, and the same goes for Muslims.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 03:16 PM

The point about the NDAA is that both Bush and Obama have claimed the right already to imprison American citizens. The NDAA codifies this practice but in truth, look at Bradley Manning and you can see the operative idea already in action prior to the adoption of this act.

Who's next?

We are headed toward Oligarchic Fascism.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 03:20 PM

I vote for the US Chamber of Congress and the entire Republican Corporate Banking Military Complex.

They have done more damage as domestic enemies of America than all the wars put together, with the exception of the unique traumatic mental and bodily injuries that wars produce.

YEt they do not see it that way. For example; "Why does anyone think Wall St. is a villain ? ITs as though some people want to condemn another person for achieving a measure of success?!"
Quote: President of Morgan Stanley Bank.



btw I think war profiteers are also scum. At least the wars of pre emptive and political financial expediancy.
I heard BLack Water changed its name AGAIN. It is now Academi. X and Sea Services were some of its other names.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 04:11 PM

Donuel: I take it for granted that "Lincoln and Davis each did their parts" but I still don't see why you say supplying Fort Sumter was a dishonorable thing to do—unless you think the whole war was dishonorable, and the South should have been allowed to peacefully secede. (If that's what you think, it might be interesting to hear you say so. I don't agree, but I'm not planning to debate that issue.)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 04:31 PM

Dick Nixon's crime was that he tinkered with a tape recorder

Oh, please, don't be ridiculous. Do review the evidence & testimony in the Watergate business & you'll discover it was WAY more than this...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 04:34 PM

Was it seventeen or eighteen minutes of mime on the tapes?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 04:47 PM

Didn't realize Marcel Marceau was ON the tapes, Bruce -


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 06:34 PM

The Greatest Traitor, isn't that a little like the nicest axe-murder?

I am not inclined to want to rank traitors in terms of greatness. One is either a traitor or one isn't?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 06:49 PM

not really. we hanged Roger Casement, but he was a better man than most of the turds who hanged him.

theres surely degrees of everything.

We shot Erskine Childers. bit of a bastard thing to do.

Ezra Pound - he was locked up as a traitor, but he looked a bit wacky to me (and sounded it). I'm not sure you can blame people who are bonkers.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 07:14 PM

A lot of nonsense here, beating some political stance, from leftwing to anarchist.

Federal Reserve System Banks implement government policy, and its 12 banks in 12 Federal Reserve Districts oversee the actions of private banks within their region. Governance is independent; Ben Bernanke chairman, members Janet Yellin, Elizabeth Duke, Daniel Tarullo, and Sarah Bloom Raskin. These members are nominated by the US President and confirmed by the US Senate.
Purposes and Functions are covered in the bulletin "The Federal Reserve System Purposes and Functions," online at http://www.federalreserve.gov/pf/pf.htm

The FR system has arrangements for convenience with many countries, including Canada, with which it has set up in 2010 a $30 billion swap agreement with Bank of Canada (see article within www.bankofcanada.ca, or preferably google) and other arrangements set up over time.

Any list of traitors would include the first ones, who rebelled against the British government ........
All the ills that the US is accused of could stem from the original secession, since everything the government has done since that time seems to be at odds with fringe perceptions promulgated here.
If the colonies hadn't seceeded, than all the blame could be assigned to the British government.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 07:30 PM

While I've become thoroughly disillusioned with Obama, I'd have to say George W. Bush is the biggest traitor in US history. I'll never, ever forgive him for what he did--never. If Obama is becoming a dictator, remember who put that machinery in place in the Oval Office and left it there when he vacated.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 07:33 PM

//// we hanged Roger Casement, but he was a better man than most of the turds who hanged him.////

I know Alfred Noyes was an ardent defender of Casement and thought his Black Diaries were forgeries. I'm not so sure but I'm not an authority either. What say you?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 10:40 PM

no the black diaries were real enough. Casement was gay as Paris in the spingtime.

All that lot were sort of queer.

I think that was what the Wasteland was about.

TS Eliots comes to England. he finds this weird awful place. Industrialisation everywhere, Music hall humour, mucky postcards. jazz, ragtime, fast food, men with pimples having sex.....

In other words - English life as vigorous and beautiful as its ever been.

And yet there is English literature - once the greatest in the world being written as a dead language. Noyes - a good case in point Writing about highwaymen and stagecoaches and King george's men in scarlet - when soldiers were in khaki. stevenson writing about pirates and jacobites. Wilde writing poems like Requiesacat and Helas. Rupert Brooke, lionel Johnson....

Still Casement was an okay bloke. He had campaigned against slavery in Africa. He had a lot to offer. They shouldn't have killed him.

he was a prot, and yet a republican. he would have been a better statesman for ireland, ulster and England than either devalera, Collins, or Conolly.


anyway thats what I think. Traitor he may have been - but a good man. Whereas axe murderers - I can't work up much enthusiasm for them.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 11:38 PM

josepp: "If Obama is becoming a dictator, remember who put that machinery in place in the Oval Office and left it there when he vacated."

Josepp, very perceptive!..I argue the same thing on here, during the elections, in regards to George W....now look what we got!
Not only that, Obama's Administration was trying to pass legislation to ALLOW the government to LIE and refuse answering questions...add that to the 'Patriot Act' and the NDAA!!!!

..and the so-called 'liberals' haven't connected the dots yet!

GfS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Songwronger
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 11:38 PM

I guess I should have defined what I mean by "traitor." That would be someone who betrays his or her own people. The various crimes against humanity that all presidents have committed are a different matter. And to be a truly GREAT traitor you have to be in a position to do maximum damage, which Burr and Arnold and some others weren't, but presidents are.

Woodrow Wilson swore to uphold the U.S. Constitution, and our constitution lays out monetary policy. He then turned over that policy-making authority to the privately-owned Federal Reserve. The fed is a consortium of private banks. Just do a search of "federal reserve private" to see volumes of information on this topic. If you want to read how the private bankers set up the fed, read The Creature From Jeckyll Island. It was available as a free download the last time I looked.

But Obama just signed the NDAA, so he he becomes traitor #1. Creating domestic death squads in violation of the Bill of Rights is as bad a thing as a president could do. Obama's supposed to be a "law professor" too, so he can't claim ignorance on this one. He's telling you that he has the power to kill you, premeditatedly, for whatever secret reason he decides on.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Dec 11 - 12:00 AM

"The Creature From Jeckyll Island" is indeed THE book to read to understand clearly what has happened with USA monetary policy since the Woodrow Wilson presidency. I read it a couple of years ago. I then lent it to a musical friend of mine, a great guy who happens to be very rightwing in a political sense. His political instincts are generally opposite to mine on most stuff. He read it and was stunned by what it had to say. It shifted his outlook on a lot of stuff. People need to understand what the big multinational bankers have done. They have utterly hijacked the ship of state in virtually every nation, taken over our governments by their financial maneuverings, financed wars to enrich themselves, ruined the value of our currency, robbed the middle class and the poor, and put our societies into unrecoverable debt...all to enrich themselves. The Federal Reserve Bank was the key instrument of achieving that in the USA, and it still is.

If you haven't read the book "The Creature From Jeckyll Island", then you have no basis on which to criticize or pooh-pooh what it says. To any skeptic I have this to say: READ IT.

As for NDAA...doesn't surprise me a bit. I was expecting something like that to be passed as part of the so-called "War on Terror" (a misnomer if ever there was one). Orwell predicted that the future dictatorship that would run society would help secure and expand its oppressive power over the public by fighting an apparently endless war against a shadowy and ill-defined "enemy" somewhere overseas, a war that could be used as an excuse for every oppressive new rule brought down in the Homeland. What he predicted has come true in our time.

He also predicted electronic surveillance of the entire public through new technology. That is being done too, and is being done most thoroughly right now in the UK where surveillance cameras are being mounted practically everywhere in order to spy on the general public. These are not measures being put in place to protect the general public, but to control them.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Dec 11 - 04:25 AM

Rupert Brooke wrote mostly in the language of his time (apart from the bit of Greek in "the Old Vicarage, Grantchester". I do not see the accuracy in speaking of his as if he wrote in the past. He died on active service - albeit from an infected mosquito bite rather than an enemy bullet(!).

Some of his stuff is a bit soppy though.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Dec 11 - 04:43 AM

They called themselves the neo-Georgians.

A bit like these folksingers who want to burble endlessly about the past in the style of the past (any more thrilling accounts of the first world war?....arrrgh!). God knows I'm not claiming to be where its at, like Walter Matthau in The Sunshine Boys. But there has surely to be some significant degree of interface with the world we live in, for art to have any significance.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Dec 11 - 06:56 AM

Rather random drift there, Al and Richard. Might be better to start a separate thread to argue about literary trends in the first part of the last century rather than do it in this one. When too many discussions are going along at the same time it gets irritatingly confusing.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Dec 11 - 07:27 AM

I was just saying we have a better class of traitor than you lot. Who wouldn't want to be in the Philby/Guy Burgesss crew - whooping it up! Bit like being in treasure Island - you'd rather be a pirate with Long John than with Captain Smollet and that gang of bores.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Dec 11 - 07:31 AM

Also, our serial killers are much more rock and roll, than their gang of psycho sexual weirdos.

Jack the Ripper, The Brides in the Bath, the Acid Bath man....

Just plain old fashioned evil. Most of them, mad as hatters.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Dec 11 - 09:45 AM

you'd rather be a pirate with Long John than with Captain Smollet and that gang of bores.

Not really, if you actually go what's in the book.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Dec 11 - 01:14 PM

This just in, Big Al. The International Hatters' Association is quite upset with those disparaging remarks you made in your last post, and they are planning a mass demonstration outside your "digs" (place of abode)(habitation).


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Dec 11 - 03:21 PM

The public (or should I call them the great bourgeoisie) is responsible for the failings of the Federal Reserve Board, set up as a necessary control over the haphazard banking system in the United States.
In the 1980s, euphoria overcame the western world, the balloon was expanding and going up, income would continue to rise and life would be peaches and cream forever. Everyone bought on credit, since the fountain of cash would be everflowing, mortgaging to the hily and to the toes.
The US people elected a mirror to themselves, Ronald Reagan, and he appointed Alan Greenspan, head of the Federal Reserve System. Both Reagan and Greenspan, along with the peepul, spent freely and foolishly, starting a mountain of debt that with minor reversals would continue to build.
Succeeding Administrations, through Obama's first years, continued wasteful spending, fought stupid wars, ignored infrastructure deterioration, the public compliant, happy to receive the bounty- the future would take care of itself.

The western world in general went along, while the people of the East, belt-tighteners for millenia, accumulated savings and invested in controlled growth. As Deng Xiaoping said, it doesn't matter if the cat is black or white (Capitalism or Communism), so long as it catches mice. Pput profits in command....., Never taking the lead but aiming to do something big.

The traitor? The people, you and me. We elected spendthrifts like ourselves.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Dec 11 - 05:51 PM

The Cats (those who rule and who OWN the mass media) led the mice (the general public) straight into the trap which they had baited, Q. And you would blame the mice for it?

I suggest you read "The Creature From Jeckyll Island" before judging the wretched mice so harshly. The mice don't get anyone to vote FOR at election time but Cats...and no matter which Cat they elect, they will get trapped, robbed, and eaten in the years that follow (figuratively speaking in the case of "eaten").

Look up the video of "Mouseland" on Youtube. It's an old Canadian speech by Tommy Douglas about the "mice" and the "cats", and it explains the ruling political system in a nutshell.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Dec 11 - 06:57 PM

Of course the mice (those of the West, us) are to blame. The mice support the system they deserve.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: kendall
Date: 17 Dec 11 - 07:38 PM

Charles Lindbergh was accused of being a Nazi sympathizer.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Dec 11 - 09:21 PM

Yes he was. And he wasn't alone. There were quite a few Nazi sympathizers, specially before the war, and they most likely thought they were supporting "the good guys". That's what most people seem to think most of the time. Just ask them.

Q - I don't entirely agree that the mice are to blame. I do agree that they share some of the blame, but I think the far greater blame falls upon those few rich and powerful Cats who are leading them.

War crimes trials generally make that same assumption. They don't put EVERY single defeated enemy soldier on trial after the war. They put the top political leaders and top military commanders on trial. Those who made the battle plans, laid down the rules, and issued the orders.

You follow what I'm saying?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: HuwG
Date: 18 Dec 11 - 02:10 AM

I personally wouldn't be too hard on Woodrow Wilson. He cannot really be accused of having foreseen all the consequences almost a century after having signed any particular act.

I would have a sneaking regard for Aaron Burr. Planning to sell more than half the United States (by area) to Spain, and shooting dead a former Secretary of the Treasury in a duel shows a breathtaking effrontery not associated with the usual furtive and dissembling varieties of treachery.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Dec 11 - 11:59 AM

But when it comes to our own countries' war crimes we find ways of letting the people up the food chain are left untouched, while ensuring that any blame or punishment (if there is any) is restricted to people way down towards the bottom.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Songwronger
Date: 18 Dec 11 - 07:36 PM

Oh, Wilson knew what he was doing, but then later he didn't want to be remembered as a TOTAL traitor so he offered a kind of apology.

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world. No longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."

That's what Wilson said about the federal reserve. He was a perfesser too, just like Obama. Such smart men. Just like Gingrich. He's a perfesser too. We're so fortunate to have the eddicated watching out for us dumb mice.

And now Obama says he can kill whomever he wants whenever he wants. The perfesser must be right. Just kill my ass because I'm too stoopid to understand why that's a good thing.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Dec 11 - 09:15 PM

Probably the Cisco Kid. Him and Pancho were almost certainly illegal immigrants.

They saw him on telly, and it gave a lot of other people the idea they could get away with it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: ollaimh
Date: 18 Dec 11 - 11:39 PM

i'm with little hawk. it's reassuring that when i ahevn't time to look at a computer she's out there making many of my arguements.

benedict arnold is rather highly regarded in parts of new brunswick canada. i stayed in a bed and breakfast in fredericton a few years ago for the step daughters graduation. it was on land once owned by benedict arnold. they advertise that as a majopr sellng point!

he was a pillar of the new province. however his business interests didn't prosper and he retired to england i think.

but biggest traitor--the exploitive corporate elites. did i say military capitalism! they have kept american at war all over the globe and paying for bases in every sector that no one actually needs.

for half the money wasted on the iraq war america could have developed alternative and north american energy systems

the limberg baby?? dod a cheese fly the atlantic and i missed it


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: GUEST, Eb
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 12:04 AM

What am I missing here? Obama has not signed the bill.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 05:19 PM

Big Al - LOL!!!!!!!!!! Brilliant!

ollaimh - Actually, I a male (in this lifetime, at least). Nice to hear that we have similar understandings.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Songwronger
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 07:56 PM

Dear Mr. Big Al Whittle. A couple of days ago, on this thread, you said:

Also, our serial killers are much more rock and roll, than their gang of psycho sexual weirdos.

Jack the Ripper, The Brides in the Bath, the Acid Bath man....


I'm sorry but I must disagree with this. The Brits may lead the U.S. in many things, but not in the quality of our serial killers.

Our Servant Girl Annihilator, for example, pre-dated Jack the Ripper by three years and had a higher body count. Some even contend that he went to England and BECAME Jack the Ripper. The city of Austin installed Moonlight Towers in response to the murders, and many of those are still standing today, historic landmarks. So we erect monuments to our serial killers, after a fashion.

And then there was H. H. Holmes with his Murder Castle, killing perhaps 200 while Jack the Ripper was killing, what...six?

I believe our serial killers can compare with anyone's. You can argue this if you wish, but for every Burke & Hare you toss out I can trump you with a Henry Lee Lucas or two.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: gnu
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 08:02 PM

Songwronger... ya got a date and citation for that Wilson quote? I wanna use it in future. I could search it but I figger, since ya posted it, ya got it at hand. Much obliged and thanks in advance.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 08:39 PM

Mark David Chapman get my vote...

B~


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Songwronger
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 08:42 PM

Well, the Wilson quote is kind of a hodgepodge, but that's the way you always see it in debates. It's cobbled together from a deathbed statement and a speech, both by Wilson. H.L. Mencken quoted the "I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country" part as a statement Wilson made before dying, and the rest was drawn from Wilson's book The New Freedom. I guess it's a cheat to use the quote in its hybrid form, but it does sum up what Wilson did and the fact that he knew what he did. Wilson signed the Federal Reserve Act and knew how the change in monetary policy would work to the detriment of America. He sold us out.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Songwronger
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 09:00 PM

Reading about serial killers on Wikipedia. Narcissism is being decommissioned as a personality disorder:

Some serial killers may also exhibit various degrees of psychopathy, though this is not always the case.[11] Psychopaths lack empathy and guilt, are egocentric and impulsive, and theoretically do not conform to social, moral and legal norms. Instead, psychopaths often follow a distinct set of rules which they have created for themselves. They may appear to be normal and often quite charming, a state of adaptation that psychiatrist Hervey Cleckley called the "mask of sanity".[24] In the DSM-IV, psychopathy is listed under Axis II Personality disorders NOS. It is a disorder mainly defined by traits of both antisocial personality disorder and narcissism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_killer

That paragraph reeks of Obama. He lacks empathy and guilt (offers to cut Social Security, bombs Libya). Egocentric (wears a Rolex while he preaches austerity). Does not conform to legal norms. Follows a distinct set of rules created for himself (says he can kill anyone he wants). May appear charming, a state of adaptation. And then there's the narcissism. Obama's extremely narcissistic. He has to have adulation. The guy could be profiled as a serial killer.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 09:08 PM

JEEZ!!

Don Firth


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Dec 11 - 11:45 PM

We have a definite disagreement in the offing here...an almost unprecedented situation on Mudcat Cafe! I fear for what may happen. (spoken with tongue firmly planted in cheek)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Dec 11 - 12:36 AM

"That paragraph reeks of Obama. He lacks empathy and guilt (offers to cut Social Security, bombs Libya). Egocentric (wears a Rolex while he preaches austerity). Does not conform to legal norms. Follows a distinct set of rules created for himself (says he can kill anyone he wants). May appear charming, a state of adaptation. And then there's the narcissism. Obama's extremely narcissistic. He has to have adulation. The guy could be profiled as a serial killer."


hahahhhaahhahahaahhahhagigglehahahahahahahahahhahahaha
snorthahahhahahahahahahahahahahhachokehahhahahahahhaha
hahhahahahgssphhhahahhahahahahahahahahahahhahhahhahahahahahah


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Dec 11 - 10:15 AM

Not funny, Ebbie- person who could write that paragraph has some serious personality disorders and psycoses of his own.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Dec 11 - 12:07 PM

I agree with your assessment, Greg F, but on the other hand... ha ha.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 20 Dec 11 - 12:33 PM

The other night on the Dailey Show they made a good case against George Bailey in "It's a Wonderful Life". If you remember his Savings and Loan made a lot of risky loans to put poor people into homes they could barely afford and when he was about to go under he accepted a bailout using public funds. When you think about it that whole movie is nothing but Socialist propaganda. Remember - the bad guy was the capitalist banker. A fatcat.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Dec 11 - 05:45 PM

If you had the means to create very large amounts of money any time you wanted to with merely the stroke of a pen and a few taps on a computer keyboard, Wesley, would you be able to resist the temptation?

That's what banks do, every time they make a loan. They create new money out of thin air...in the form of DEBTS that are owed to the BANK. They are not required to have more than a tiny fraction of that amount in real money or real assets on hand to back up that loan. That is why society's money supply (currency on the books) keeps magically increasing year by year, society's debts keep increasing, and the national currency keeps inflating and losing value year by year...which hurts everyone else, specially older people on fixed incomes, but it benefits the banks.

It's like having your own private money tree. That's what banks do. Governments allowed them to do it by permitting fractional reserve lending (lending out vastly more money than you really have on deposit).

The situation is now completely out of control, and it has benefited almost nobody in society but the bankers...and those few at the top whom they have paid off to allow them to do it.

That's a great crime against humanity. A crime committed by bankers (and compliant politicians). They should be on trial for it, not receiving government bailouts.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Dec 11 - 06:09 PM

Surely that would add up to a good good case for George Bailey?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Songwronger
Date: 20 Dec 11 - 08:31 PM

Turned up some interesting things searching for "serial killer Obama." My favorite of the stories:

Imprisoned Serial Killer Charles Manson: 'Obama's An Idiot'

April 19, 2011

Serial killer and cult leader Charles Manson recently spoke out for the first time in 20 years, referring to himself as God and calling President Barack Obama "an idiot."

While Manson unsuccessfully asked Obama to set him free, the 76-year-old had some less than kind words for the Commander-in-Chief.

"I think Obama is an idiot for doing what he's doing," Manson said, referring to the Prez as a "slave of Wall Street." "They're playing with him."

Although Manson clearly had no respect for human life, killing at least seven people, he seems concerned about the environment, particularly global warming.

"Everyone's God, and if we don't wake up to that there's going to be no weather because our polar caps are melting because we're doing bad things to the atmosphere," said Manson, whose forehead is tattooed with a Nazi swastika. "If we don't change that as rapidly as I'm speaking to you now, if we don't put the green back on the planet and put the trees back that we've butchered, if we don't go to war against the problem..."


http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/04/imprisoned-serial-killer-charles-manson-obamas-idiot

Could be a spoof, but I don't think so.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Dec 11 - 09:08 PM

Oh, yeah! I get ALL my political opinions from convicted serial killers! Way to go!!

[I mean, now REALLY! Who really CARES what Charles Manson thinks?]

Don Firth


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Elmore
Date: 20 Dec 11 - 09:54 PM

What Don said.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Songwronger
Date: 20 Dec 11 - 11:32 PM

You guys have no sense of humor. Almost every sentence in that article is a belly laugh. Manson the environmentalist. The bank expert. Calling the man he wants to pardon him an idiot. I read the piece 4 times and cracked up each time.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 12:40 AM

Well, I dunno, Songwronger, considering some of the things you have posted, it was a little hard to tell whether or not this was a leg-pull.

Nothing wrong with my sense of humor.

Don Firth


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 02:25 AM

I agree Obama shouldn't wear a Rolex.

Which timepiece would express his patriotism (there used to be a Roy Rogers watch) and show that he was with living in straitened circumstances, to identify with the poor people of the land?

As for serial killers, its more a question of having that 'je ne sais quoi' . Your approach is naively quantitative (body count, indeed!). I mean as someone pointed out, who cares what Manson, or Bundy or Gacy thought or thinks - they were so obviously complete badly brought up dickheads.

Whereas Jack the Ripper - he might have Queen, Victoria, Oscar Wilde - we even had the Kay Scarpetta woman over here saying that it was the artist,Walter Sickert - wrote a book about it, television series...weird!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 01:59 PM

Oh, yeah! I get ALL my political opinions from convicted serial killers!

No worse - or less valid - than getting 'em from Rush Limbaugh, Faux News, the Koch Brothers, Newt, Rick & the rest of the Republican Clown Act, or mass murderers like Geo. W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Henry Kissenger, Paul Wolfowitz etc etc etc


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 02:05 PM

I sure don't waste my time gettin' info from such tainted sources.

I mean...like the ones Greg just mentioned.

But serial killers? Yeah, sure, why not? Ook! Ook!

- Chongo


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 04:57 PM

I don't know if I qualify as one of those killers or not.

I killed a whole bowl of it this morning. With milk and fruit. . . .

Don Firth


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Songwronger
Date: 21 Dec 11 - 07:14 PM

As for serial killers, its more a question of having that 'je ne sais quoi' . Your approach is naively quantitative (body count, indeed!). I mean as someone pointed out, who cares what Manson, or Bundy or Gacy thought or thinks - they were so obviously complete badly brought up dickheads.

Whereas Jack the Ripper - he might have Queen, Victoria, Oscar Wilde - we even had the Kay Scarpetta woman over here saying that it was the artist,Walter Sickert - wrote a book about it, television series...weird!


I would think that all serial killers were badly brought up, somehow. As for the royal Ripper connection, was that Prince Edward they thought might be the Ripper? I've always doubted that. Seems the royals will do anything to boost their popularity.

And you have to credit the efforts of H.H. Holmes. Building a HUGE edifice a couple of miles away from the Chicago World's Fair so he could lure 200 into it, to their deaths. That's so industrious. The guy definitely had a methodical work ethic to his madness.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Dec 11 - 04:40 AM

Take my word for it - the british have this sort of thing sewn up. The sheer haplessness of American criminals automatically excludes them from the higher echelons of the their calling.

We could give masterclesses in it. When you're a musician in England, you sometimes find yourself playing to whole rooms full of people that look (and sound) as though they've got a couple of skulls in cling film in the fridge, next to the pork pie.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Songwronger
Date: 26 Dec 11 - 07:37 PM

THUD OF THE JACKBOOT

A couple of months ago came a mile marker in America's steady slide downhill towards the status of a Banana Republic, with Obama's assertion that he has the right as president to order secretly the assassination, without trial, of a US citizen he deems to be working with terrorists. This followed his betrayal in 2009 of his pledge to end the indefinite imprisonment without charges or trial of prisoners in Guantanamo.

Now, after months of declaring that he would veto such legislation, Obama has now crumbled and will soon sign a monstrosity called the Levin/McCain detention bill, named for its two senatorial sponsors, Carl Levin and John McCain. It's snugged into the 2012 National Defense Authorization Act.........

Anyone familiar with this sort of "emergency" legislation knows that those drafting the statutes like to cast as wide a net as possible. In this instance the detention bill authorizes use of military force against anyone who "substantially supports" al-Qaeda, the Taliban or "associated forces". Of course "associated forces" can mean anything...........

http://poorrichards-blog.blogspot.com/2011/12/thud-of-jackboot.html


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Songwronger
Date: 26 Dec 11 - 07:43 PM

CONGRESS ATTACKS THE CONSTITUTION

The US Congress has ended the year 2011 by assaulting the constitution. The attack came in the form of the 2012 National Defence Appropriations Act (NDAA), which passed both the House of Representatives (14 December) and the Senate (15 December) by large margins despite having an attached provision (the "Homeland Battlefield Bill") that allows the United States military to take into custody and hold indefinitely without trial any American citizen designated a "terrorist suspect".

As if to make sure that everyone knew just what they were voting for, Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican from South Carolina who supports the legislation, said on the Senate floor: "The statement of authority to detain does apply to American citizens and it designates the world as a battlefield, including the homeland." That means US citizens designated terrorist suspects are stripped of their protections under the constitution. They simply fall into a judicial black hole. Ironically, Congress did this to the country on the 220th anniversary of the Bill of Rights............

The odd thing about President Obama's willingness to sign this bill and, as Human Rights Watch notes, "go down in history as the president who enshrined indefinite detention without trial in US law", is that the FBI, the CIA, the director of National Intelligence, the attorney-general and the secretary of defence, among others, all oppose it. The military in particular appear to have no wish to destroy a 200-year tradition of non-interference in domestic affairs. In fact, according to Heather Huburt, the executive director of The National Security Network, a non-profit organization focusing on national security, "you can't find any national security experts in favour of these provisions".............


http://www.redress.cc/americas/ldavidson20111226


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Songwronger
Date: 26 Dec 11 - 07:48 PM

MONTANANS LAUNCH RECALL OF U.S. SENATORS WHO APPROVED NDAA MILITARY DETENTION

Moving quickly on Christmas Day after the US Senate voted 86 - 14 to pass the National Defense Authorization Act of 2011 (NDAA) which allows for the indefinite military detention of American citizens without charge or trial, Montanans have announced the launch of recall campaigns against Senators Max Baucus and Jonathan Tester, who voted for the bill.

Montana is one of nine states with provisions that say that the right of recall extends to recalling members of its federal congressional delegation, pursuant to Montana Code 2-16-603, on the grounds of physical or mental lack of fitness, incompetence, violation of oath of office, official misconduct, or conviction of certain felony offenses............


http://warisacrime.org/content/montanans-launch-recall-senators-who-approved-ndaa-military-detention-merry-christmas-us-sen


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: gnu
Date: 26 Dec 11 - 08:53 PM

This must be of monumental importance... it's in italics! Thats's why I didn't bother to read it... them.

Should I have bothered? I'd put that in italics, but I don't see the need.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Dec 11 - 08:56 PM

Please name them Montanans


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: ollaimh
Date: 26 Dec 11 - 10:36 PM

americans have often abamdoned the protections of the constitution when in crisis. so who are the traitors. those who betray the bill of rights?

mind you it's hard to take americans too seriously on political discussions. they had a revolution to avoid paying their taxes after the british had paid the bill for defending them from us!(at least the french us).but then they hate nothing so much as paying taxes.

as to the federal reserve. the real failure of obama was he could have taken back equity in thre banks he bailed out on wall street and got shareholder standing to see the backs full books and the federal reserve full books. that would have been interesting. however americans out side the occupy movement seem uninterested in doing anything about he great rip off perpertrated by those who issued the greatest jun bond issues in history. took their profits and cut and ran, then took the bailout and bonuses.

the conservative/thatcherite historian nail fergeson in his book "ascent of money" pointed out that in 1990 in excess of ninety per cent of the financial instruments being sold by wall street at the crash didn't exist . they learned from the junk bond scandal o =f the nineties that if you control the regulators the bond rating agencies and the congress you can get away with anything. thoser are traitors to everything but greed


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Dec 11 - 11:01 PM

To minimize the danger posed by something like the NDAA and to turn a blind eye to the immense damage it can do to democracy in the USA is rather comparable to Germans in the 30's minimizing the importance of Hitler's emergency measures to curtail civil liberties in the Reich.

It amounts to complicity in agreeing to your own enslavement...supposedly for your "protection" or because you think it "doesn't matter".


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Dec 11 - 11:26 PM

Greatest traitor in U.S. History? I think I'd vote for Rupert Murdoch.

-Joe-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Songwronger
Date: 26 Dec 11 - 11:41 PM

Nah, Obama has just outdistanced all competition.

they learned from the junk bond scandal o =f the nineties that if you control the regulators the bond rating agencies and the congress you can get away with anything.

That's what is happening in the U.S. with the NDAA. Last summer our House of Representatives (435 members) passed a version of the bill. Our Senate (100 members) just passed a different version. Their version is unconstitutional. It's easier to buy off 100 than 435. And Obama was bought off long ago.

Obama is now cutting payroll taxes that are intended to fund the future or our retirement safety net--Social Security. So he will also be remembered as the president who murdered untold millions of future retirees.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 02:33 AM

The greatest traitor? I don't know but I know who I'd vote for as the Greatest Doofus.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 12:30 PM

William Shatner?

Oh, I guess not...he's Canadian, eh? ;-)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 06:28 PM

Songwronger, thank you for posting that link. From that link I quote the following:

"This is Stewart Rhodes,

Submitted by Stewart Rhodes on Mon, 12/26/2011 - 3:13pm.

This is Stewart Rhodes, Founder of Oath Keepers. I want to make it very clear that in Montana I will be filing for a recall of ALL of Montana's Congressional Delegation, including Republican Denny Rehberg, since all three of them voted for the NDAA of 2012, which contains provisions authorizing military detention and trial of US citizens and lawful residents.

The two Democratic Senators, Tester and Baucus, voted for it, but so did the Republican Congressman Rehberg. It's not about left or right. It's about our Bill of Rights.

Stewart Rhodes"



You folks slamming Songwronger maybe ought to take a good look at the link. The US is in deep shit because Obama has simply continued Bush's policies, and someday you will wake up wondering why American troops are patrolling American streets--maybe looking for you. Hell, look at the past few years of the TSA. Fuckers were searching 9-year-old American kids getting off a train in I think Atlanta. Yeah, Feel secure. You are trading your liberty for it. I hope you find it was worth the price.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 06:43 PM

Right on, 999. This isn't about Songwronger, and it isn't about pursuing personal vendettas and nasty little feuds on Mudcat. It's about whether or not Americans will stand silently by when their Constitutional rights are being legislated away by corrupt politicians in both parties.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 06:50 PM

I'll go with Rupert Murdock, too, Joe...

B~


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: artbrooks
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 08:12 PM

One assumes that you have actually read the bill, and understand that the provisions of the draft requiring military detention of 'terrorist' suspects was removed from the final version.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: pdq
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 08:34 PM

Perhaps the "must" was changed to "may" but the provision to detain US citizens indefinitely by the military was not removed...

"During debate within the Senate and before the Act's passage, Senator Mark Udall introduced an amendment intended to forbid the indefinite detention of U.S. citizens; the amendment was rejected by a vote of 38–60. Udall subsequently voted for the Act in the joint session of congress that passed it, and though he remained "extremely troubled" by the detainee provisions, he promised to "push Congress to conduct the maximum amount of oversight possible."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 11:26 PM

They have legions of lawyers whose job is to word a bill in such arcane and complex language that the lawmakers who pass it can't understand it, and can't be bothered taking the time to understand it.

Numerous Congressmen have admitted that they DO NOT read the full text of many (or most) of the bills they vote for. Check the record on that. In all probability, this is what happens in most cases: they are told by people higher up the authority chain: "This is a good bill and we need to pass it. Vote for it." And they do. Without having read it, without having understood it. That's pretty standard behaviour in Washington, according to what I've read in a number of articles, and they were not articles emanating from the political Right either.

I think it's pretty standard behaviour in the Canadian parliament too. And in the UK. And just about everywhere. So it's not just a problem in the USA.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: michaelr
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 11:52 PM

One assumes that you have actually read the bill, and understand that the provisions of the draft requiring military detention of 'terrorist' suspects was removed from the final version.

Have you, and do you?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 12:01 AM

Here's an 800 page document you'll be voting on in three hours. Please give it a close read and vote yes!

You find something wrong with that, LH? Sheesh, ya know?

I recall a great line from an Alistair MacLean book entitled The Satan Bug (it may have come out under the name Ian Stuart--he did two books under that name). The cops have to stop the bad guys. A police APB goes out and it reads: The bad guys are driving a turquoise-coloured car . . . , whereupon a police inspector interrupts the announcer and says, "Blue-green. You're talking to policemen, not their wives."

Before I receive hate-mail, the book was written forty years ago.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 06:02 AM

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Robert E. Lee. Offered command of the Army of the Potomac at the start of the civil war, he not only turned it down but took up arms against the United States. Probably the most able general of his time, his leadership probably added two years at least to the American civil war.

Someone mentioned Roger Casement. Casement was what we would nowadays call a 'sex tourist'. He regularly travelled to North Africa and sexually exploited boys as young as eight years old. Hanging was too good for him. What with that and Patrick Pearse's   erotic poems about the boys he taught at St Enda's, combined with the history of the Irish state since, you have to wonder about the 1916 crowd. That's another story, though.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Songwronger
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 07:25 PM

I agree with a lot that's been said here about corporations being traitorous, and Obama being a continuation of Bush and all that, but Obama bears an individual, personal responsibility for the NDAA.

What's especially troubling is that Obama initally opposed the act because it would have taken away some of his power to disappear and murder Americans, as it was worded. That as a starting point is unacceptable. That asshole has no more right to murder me than I have to murder him. But he got upset because he might lose some of that power, and the final deal merely expanded the law to allow the military to disappear and murder too.

Truman vetoed this type of legislation and Obama should have too. But he didn't. And he increased the tyranny in America exponentially. He's become the lead-off hitter for the American All Star Traitor team. Or maybe the clean-up hitter. Or the starting pitcher. James Baker's a bat boy maybe. Condi Rice is a pitching coach.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Beer
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 11:09 PM

LYNDON JOHNSON.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Beer
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 11:25 PM

http://youtu.be/CIR96HYFAsk


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Beer
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 11:33 PM

Sorry, the blue clicky will not work for some reason.
ad.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 29 Dec 11 - 06:10 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CIR96HYFAsk

Beer's link.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Songwronger
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 07:47 PM

WASHINGTON – The Obama administration's top Pentagon lawyer on Wednesday said that American citizens who join Al Qaeda can be targeted for killing and that courts should have no role in reviewing executive branch decisions about whether someone has met such criteria.

"Belligerents who also happen to be U.S. citizens do not enjoy immunity where non-citizen belligerents are valid military objectives," said Jeh C. Johnson, the Defense Department general counsel, in a speech at Yale Law School.

http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/22/pentagon-says-u-s-citizens-with-terrorism-ties-can-be-targeted-in-strikes/

Obama said he wouldn't sign the National Defense Authorization Act, which declares it's legal for the president and the military to kill Americans on American soil. Said he wouldn't sign it but he did. Now his lawyers are working to establish precedent on the matter in the court system.

And then there's this. Exactly WHAT and WHO is al Qeada? NATO is supporting al Qeada in Syria, attempting to destabilize the country so it can be invaded on "humanitarian grounds."

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=Agbdhfxyi6Eg6vWk5TWZaNabvZx4?p=al+qeada+nato+syria&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-701

So Obama's administration says you'll be killed if you are part of al Qeada, then he supports al Qeada as a destabilizing force in Syria.

Treason of this magnitude may have occured somewhere else in American history, but I'm not aware of it. Obama is now pulling away from the pack on the treason issue.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: number 6
Date: 23 Feb 12 - 08:22 PM

Confusing isn't it .... Syria was a country the CIA sent suspect al Qeada members to for torture by proxy.

biLL


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: gnu
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 01:35 PM

Yeah, but then they started fucking with BP. Ya'd think they woulda noticed what happened in Libya. I unsderstand BP has stopped buying Inanian (ypto intended) crude... hmmmm.

All conjecture on my part as I don't read enough to have an informed viewpoint. Not enough time in the day.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: kendall
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 08:58 PM

President Andrew Jackson(Democrat) did away with the federal reserve, but his Whig(republicans without the frills) enemies brought it back. He also paid off the national debt for the only time in history.

The worst traitor has to be Jeff Davis.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Feb 12 - 11:36 PM

Historian Frederick Jackson Turner called James Wilkinson "the most consummate artist in treason that the nation ever possessed."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Feb 12 - 12:20 AM

To call Robert E. Lee a traitor is ridiculous. He did what most men in those days were inclined to do: he fought for his home state. If Virginia had not joined the Confederacy, he would have fought for the Union. That's how the majority of Americans thought in those days....as citizens of their own state first, and their natural instinct in most cases was to defend the home ground...specially against invasion by forces from other parts of the country. The South fought an almost entirely defensive war, and Lee was defending his home ground of Virginia. That does not equate to being "a traitor". Quite the contrary. It is the essence of patriotism to defend the land you live upon and were born on.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Feb 12 - 08:47 AM

'To call Robert E. Lee a traitor is ridiculous.'

Why...? America and a lot of Americans (North and South) were a damn sight worse off because of his military cleverness. His inability to look out for his fellow men is unpatriotic - in the same way that Mrs Thatcher was in England. Her lack of concern for the unfortunate resuilts of her policies was incompatible with a love for her countrymen and country.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: kendall
Date: 25 Feb 12 - 10:49 AM

Lee agonized over his decision to resign his commission in the Army, but as Little Hawk said, his homeland was threatened by an enemy. It cost him dearly, as he knew it would. His home in Arlington was taken from him and enemy soldiers were buried on his front lawn.

It's too bad that he joined the South; if he had joined the union forces that war wouldn't have lasted a month. He was a military genius, up until Gettysburg, and I place him among the greatest along with Alexander the great, Douglas MacArthur and George Patton.Bernard Montgomery was no fool either.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Feb 12 - 10:55 AM

Guest, 999. Are you sure that you have it right when you said that "one of [America's] greatest patriots may have been JFK. He was going to warn the American people about the Federal Reserve and less than two weeks later his light went out in Dallas." This is the first time that I have heard of it. Also, didnt he start the Vietnam War?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Feb 12 - 11:26 AM

I think 999 is correct about that. I've heard about it too. Kennedy made a speech alluding to how huge financial forces which were basically unknown to the public were manipulating and controlling the agenda in America. He also vowed to "break" the CIA and do away with that agency. These 2 things alone would have served to sign his death warrant, in my opinion.

Look up Kennedy's speech. It's pretty stunning to read in the light of what has happened since.

As to the Vietnam War, yes, he had put some American advisors in there, so you can say he started it if you want to. That doesn't necessarily mean he would have expanded it the way Lyndon Johnson did. In any case, the Vietnam War had really been started already by America causing the temporary division of that country into North and South to become a permanent division...by abrogating scheduled elections! Ho Chi Minh would have won those elections. Therefore the USA established a Catholic Vietnamese regime in the southern half of a majority Buddhist country and made sure that re-unification and national elections would NOT happen. That was what really started that war, and it was done during the Eisenhower era. The USA prevented a democratic election in a united Vietnam and installed a puppet state in the southern half under the small Catholic minority who had traditionally worked hand in glove with the former French colonial administration. That made the war inevitable. Kennedy had no part in those decisions.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Songwronger
Date: 09 Mar 12 - 07:59 PM

John F. Kennedy learned that the presidency was a controlled office. The CIA and the pentagon were furious that he didn't back the Bay of Pigs invasion, then the chairman of the joint Chiefs, Lemnitzer, showed him a plan to blow up buildings in the U.S. and blame Cuba. Kennedy fired him. He also fired Allen Dulles, the entrenched head of the CIA. And then he made a speech promising to destroy the intelligence agencies and restore transparency to government, and he was killed.

He did indeed seem to see the light and try to do something about it.

But meanwhile, back on the evil side, Obama has now far outdistanced the field in his lead as chief traitor to the U.S., and he's going for a personal best. He's going to sign a bill outlawing freedom of assembly.

The bill as states that anyone who knowingly "enters or remains in any restricted building or grounds without lawful authority to do so" with the "intent to impede or disrupt the orderly conduct of Government business or official functions, engages in disorderly or disruptive conduct in or [in] proximity to, any restricted building or grounds" or "impedes or disrupts the orderly conduct of Government business or official functions" will be punished with a fine or "or imprisonment for not more than 10 years, or both."

http://poorrichards-blog.blogspot.com/2012/03/criminalization-of-protest-say-goodbye.html

Obama's fabricating a war with Syria, too, and he's saying he won't consult congress on that one either.

Oh, yeah, he's a lot more desirable than the "alternatives."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Songwronger
Date: 09 Mar 12 - 08:14 PM

ARGO: Why is the truth behind the assassination of President Kennedy the last chance of America for its survival?
(MORT) SAHL: Because the evidence developed by District Attorney Garrison indicates that certain people had to take President Kennedy's life in order to control ours. In other words, as Richard Starnes of the New York World-Telegram said, the shots in Dallas were the opening shots of World War III. There's been a great change in this country since Kennedy. I'm afraid a great deal of our hope was interred with his remains.

ARGO: What is the long, hard night that America must go through that you've spoken of?

SAHL: She has to hang on through a period of the military and the CIA with a blank check trying to sell fascism. If she can hang on long enough, Americans may yet live in the country in which they were born. And that is the country structured by Tom Paine and Tom Jefferson.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2920386

Obama's just the latest in the line of fascists since Sahl gave that interview. Americans have been duped into thinking a Democrat, a black man, can't be a fascist. Obama's dupes are giving him the cover he needs to further fascism in America. Wait til Bobert does his drummer boy thing at the next OWS gathering. He will be impeding government function, and he will be locked up as a terrorist. Try to get some thumb surgery in Benito Obama's prison system.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Mar 12 - 08:30 PM

Robert E Lee


Killed a lot of good fellow Americans. Just to show he was a military genius. Complete tosser. Knew he couldn't win - knew his cause was bollocks. The whole conflict was massive dereliction of his duty as an American, to let his vanity have free rein.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Mar 12 - 08:59 PM

Well, I already nominated Rupert Murdoch, but I'd also like to nominate Rush Limbaugh for calling a female law student a "slut" for speaking out in favor of the reproductive rights of women.

-Joe-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Songwronger
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 07:47 PM

President Obama signed an Executive Order for "National Defense" yesterday that claims executive authority to seize all US resources and persons, including during peacetime, for self-declared "national defense."

The EO claims power to place any American into military or "allocated" labor use.

http://www.examiner.com/nonpartisan-in-national/obama-executive-order-us-can-seize-any-person-any-resource-any-time

Obama's far outdistanced all competitors and is still pouring on the heat. What a guy! What a traitor!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 06:04 PM

joe McCarthy


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: gnu
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 06:31 PM

Anybody mention "the American (non)voter"?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Songwronger
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 07:06 PM

Obama's just cleared another hurdle as he pulls away from the pack:

Obama Executive Order allows seizure of Americans' bank accounts

The latest executive order (EO) emanating from the White House October 9 now claims the power to freeze all bank accounts and stop any related financial transactions that a "sanctioned person" may own or try to perform - all in the name of "Iran Sanctions."

Titled an "Executive Order from the President regarding Authorizing the Implementation of Certain Sanctions…" the order says that if an individual is declared by the president, the secretary of state, or the secretary of the treasury to be a "sanctioned person," he (or she) will be unable to obtain access to his accounts, will be unable to process any loans (or make them), or move them to any other financial institution inside or outside the United States. In other words, his financial resources will have successfully been completely frozen.

The EO expands its authority by making him unable to use any third party such as "a partnership, association, trust, joint venture, corporation, subgroup or other organization" that might wish to help him or allow him to obtain access to his funds.

And if the individual so "sanctioned" decides that the ruling is unfair, he isn't allowed to sue. In two words, the individual has successfully been robbed blind.

http://www.presstv.ir/usdetail/266456.html


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 09:17 PM

ShitWringer Strikes Again.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Songwronger
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 09:41 PM

So, Greg F. approves of Obama's latest executive order. He approves of cutting a person off from his/her hard-earned money. But under what circumstances? Cut the person off because s/he's al Qeada? Muslim? Republican? Jaywalker?

Obama just said he has the authority to take all of your money, people.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: GUEST,nobody in particular
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 09:52 PM

There are so many of them, where does one begin??


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Songwronger
Date: 09 Sep 13 - 06:30 PM

I've been waiting for a long time for someone to write an article like this. Obama TOLD us he would "transform" America, and now the mainstream media is figuring out what he meant. Excellent article, from the Wall Street Journal:

Obama's Successful Foreign Failure

It is entirely understandable that Barack Obama's way of dealing with Syria in recent weeks should have elicited responses ranging from puzzlement to disgust. Even members of his own party are despairingly echoing in private the public denunciations of him as "incompetent," "bungling," "feckless," "amateurish" and "in over his head" coming from his political opponents on the right....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Sep 13 - 07:10 PM

The article in the New York Times that Songwronger linked to just above was written by political commentator Norman Podhoretz. Here are some background notes on the political views of Mr. Podhoretz:   CLICKY.

I think that tells you all you need to know about that article and it's writer--and why Songwronger swallows it whole and regurgitates it here.

Don Firth


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Songwronger
Date: 09 Sep 13 - 09:02 PM

Obama promised to transform America. He's doing that. Full-time jobs are being eliminated in favor of part-time jobs, so employers can avoid the ruinous provisions of Obamacare. That's the big one, domestically. Then there are the dozen scandals that Obama should be tried and jailed for. And then there's the song and dance in Syria, where Obama is destroying America's foreign credibility. He promised to transform America, and he's doing just that.

From the article:

"Not since the disintegration of the Soviet Union in 1991, and before that the fall of France in 1940, has there been so swift an erosion of the world influence of a Great Power as we are witnessing with the United States."

...So far as domestic affairs were concerned, it soon became clear—even to some of those who had persuaded themselves that Mr. Obama was a moderate and a pragmatist—that the fundamental transformation he had in mind was to turn this country into as close a replica of the social-democratic countries of Europe as the constraints of our political system allowed....

...First in Egypt, his incoherent moves resulted in a complete loss of American influence, and now, thanks to his handling of the Syrian crisis, he is bringing about a greater diminution of American power than he probably envisaged even in his wildest radical dreams....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Sep 13 - 09:09 PM

Certainly not the Rosenbergs. CIA memos show that that they were intentionally selected to serve as an example to American Jews who sympathized with the Wobblies, IWW (communists), which was most of them.

Three hand drawn circles and 2 lines does not constitute the blue prints of a classified nuclear weapon then or now.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Sep 13 - 09:13 PM

Is it jus me or is songwronger cutting and pasting from the glen beck website again?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Greatest traitor in US history?
From: Songwronger
Date: 09 Sep 13 - 09:19 PM

Wall Street Journal. I've never been to the Beck site. Or the Limbaugh site. Most of my stories come from WhatReallyHappened.com and the World Socialist Website. The WhatReallyHappened pieces link through to no telling where. Firth tries to make a big deal out of the messenger rather than the message, but the message here is on target. Obama promised "change," and now we're getting it. He's destroying America in order to "transform" it. I don't know whether that fact is conservative or liberal.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate


 


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.



Mudcat time: 29 August 8:29 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 2022 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.