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Attawapiskat-Deplorable conditions (N. Canada)
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Subject: BS: Attawapiskat-Deplorable conditions From: Ed T Date: 06 Dec 11 - 07:13 PM While the reasons are complex, and somewhat historic, Some Canadian Aboriginal peoples, and many in the north, today face third world living conditions. This includes, cold and unhealthy housing, poor drinking water, even outhouses. I will post more background later,for information, and welcome others to do the same. Attawapiskat leader threatens civil disobedience Third world conditions in Northern Canada |
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Subject: RE: Attawapiskat-Deplorable conditions (N. Canada) From: Ed T Date: 06 Dec 11 - 08:23 PM Shocking living conditions Recent News clip |
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Subject: RE: Attawapiskat-Deplorable conditions (N. Canada) From: Crowhugger Date: 06 Dec 11 - 08:50 PM What I fail to understand is why my government repeatedly chooses to reneg on its treaty obligations and even basic human obligations--hello, drinking water!!! for crying out loud. Many communities have no insulation in homes, no indoor plumbing and many more serious problems that would never occur (Walkerton excepted), much less be ignored, in other communities. My mind boggles. Yes the issues are complex. But I can't help thinking that if these were white families, *someone's* emergency budget would cover renewable clean water, insulation, furnaces that don't leak CO etc etc. This issue is probably the single biggest one that makes me feel profound embarrassment to be Canadian. Minor lip service is occasionaly paid during election campaigns, after which promises are broken or shown to be wholly inadequate whle the problems drop off the public radar for years at a time and nothing improves, much gets worse. WTF!!! |
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Subject: RE: Attawapiskat-Deplorable conditions (N. Canada) From: Ed T Date: 06 Dec 11 - 10:05 PM A Canadian radio talk show caller asked today how Canada could be building schools in Afganistan, while not going "all out" to ensure the basic needs of life, such as clean running water, are not provided in it own country, to many Aboriginal communities. And, to make matters worse,these conditions have been known to exist for very many years. If pet animals were exposed to such conditions, there would be a loud call for action, and donations rolling in. |
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Subject: RE: Attawapiskat-Deplorable conditions (N. Canada) From: GUEST,999 Date: 06 Dec 11 - 10:47 PM The problems have many causes: there is enough blame to go around--justifiable blame. http://www.attawapiskat.org/financial-statements/ Please note the item of special interest in this instance is the 2011 Management Letter. It's a four-page read that is worth the time, imo. |
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Subject: RE: Attawapiskat-Deplorable conditions (N. Canada) From: Sandy Mc Lean Date: 07 Dec 11 - 12:08 AM I read the management letter and was not surprised. The problem on so many reserves is how funds are distributed. Chiefs and council members earn six figure incomes, some higher than Canada's Prime Minister, while nothing is left to meet social needs. The council seems more concerned with maintaining control than accepting a goverment plan to manage the funds and see that they are directed where they are needed. One can not help feeling pain for the destitute victims and it should not happen in a country like Canada, but Attawapiska is one of many reserves needing help! |
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Subject: RE: Attawapiskat-Deplorable conditions (N. Canada) From: Rapparee Date: 07 Dec 11 - 09:46 AM Looking over the salaries statement, I noticed that there were several people filling two or more hats and collected salaries from each. The same surnames appear several times -- no problem unless it could be nepotism. |
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Subject: RE: Attawapiskat-Deplorable conditions (N. Canada) From: Ed T Date: 07 Dec 11 - 11:04 AM An observation of mine is that, quite often, where you find the poorest people you find alot of governing corruption and nepotism. I suspect some of the dollars divied out by the Canadian government could be gobbled up by a few governing and connected folks on some of the reserves. In those cases,this does little to benefit the poorest citizens. But, there seems also to be a lack of good logic in the Millions of dollars that is spent on non pressing infrastructure (sports facilities etc), while ignoring that the basic needs of life (clean running water, safe and healthy housing, septic systems, health care). But, is there an enabling element by the Canadian governmen? If corruption is that blatent,(and likely has been for years) what is being done by the funder to put an end to that and |
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Subject: RE: Attawapiskat-Deplorable conditions (N. Canada) From: Ed T Date: 15 Dec 11 - 06:29 AM How does one end such a cycle? history of abuse |
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Subject: RE: Attawapiskat-Deplorable conditions (N. Canada) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 15 Dec 11 - 03:45 PM The problem of poor conditions for ordinary reserve people also is a problem in Alberta. We hear rumors but can't find the facts. We hear that money received by the reserves is controlled by those connected with the administration and does not filter down. Certain families on the Tsu-tina "nation" adjacent to Calgary seem to have an upper class lifestyle while the majority seem to live marginally. This observation is just that, I have no real information. They have a large casino (run by an outside company) but I have no idea of the percentage that goes to the "nation" or how it is spent. They have a large sand and gravel operation but again I can't find anything on the money flow. We hear stories of misuse of funds in reserves in Alberta, but I honestly don't know the truth of the situation. I can't get at the figures. I tend to agree with Ed T's comments. Attawapiskat refuses government intervention. Is it, and the other reserves ("nations") incapable of properly using funds from the government and income from reserve businesses ? Were the reserves given too much freedom over control of their income? I believe both the reserves and the government are at fault, but without hard data, it is difficult to guess at solutions. |
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Subject: RE: Attawapiskat-Deplorable conditions (N. Canada) From: gnu Date: 15 Dec 11 - 04:01 PM Disgusting and disturbing on so many levels. Most of all, why can't the PM straighten this shit out and get the job done no matter WHO or how many are at fault, including himself, on so many levels? |
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Subject: RE: Attawapiskat-Deplorable conditions (N. Canada) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 15 Dec 11 - 04:19 PM The PM may recommend and try to institute measures, but the various government departments, treaties, provincial authority, etc., make corrective actions difficult. Moreover, the PM must be supported by the members in his party, and concurrence by others in a minority party situation. Only a dictator has the power to act simply and decisefully. The PM has little authority over the provinces and their actions on the matter. |
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Subject: RE: Attawapiskat-Deplorable conditions (N. Canada) From: GUEST,mg Date: 15 Dec 11 - 05:10 PM One thing they could do immediately is ocntract with the nearest community colleges and insure that they offer courses in construction, plumbing, electricity, nursing, teacher assistant etc. so that the people there could improve their situations...many skills could be taughtin high school, and should be taught to every hgh school student regardless of wealth, high status etc. Everyone. We produce many incompetent people in our education "system". |
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Subject: RE: Attawapiskat-Deplorable conditions (N. Canada) From: GUEST,Wesley S Date: 15 Dec 11 - 05:45 PM "Yes the issues are complex." I'm going to disagree Crowhugger. It's simple. The Canadian government needs to honor their commitments - and provide the simple basics of life for the people under it's care and protection. And if that makes me a socialist - then I'm a flippin' socialist. |
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Subject: RE: Attawapiskat-Deplorable conditions (N. Canada) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 15 Dec 11 - 06:12 PM The band receives approx. 16 million / year for 2000 members. Subtracting 5 million for education, they receive 11 million for infrastructure, social welfare, administraion and federal stewardship (1 million). Ten million for 2000 band members / year is $5000/ person (excluding education), and for family groups (20,000 for a family of 4). http://www.cbc.ca/news/pdf/Atttawapiskat-Funding-Chart.pdf |
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Subject: RE: Attawapiskat-Deplorable conditions (N. Canada) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 15 Dec 11 - 06:22 PM A DeBeers diamond mine is on band land. The royalties, however, go to the province of Ontario. This illustrates one of the problems with reserves in Ontario. Some band members are employed by the mine, but operations royalties on band land do not go to the band. The Federal Government cannot re-direct these monies. |
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Subject: RE: Attawapiskat-Deplorable conditions (N. Canada) From: gnu Date: 15 Dec 11 - 06:24 PM Well, as far as it being complictaed for the PM, if he cannot cut through the shit and get the job done he should not be PM. THAT is his job. THAT is what he is elected to do. If he runs into opposition of any kind and doesn't have the balls to ensure our First Nations are treated well he's incompetent and should be replaced. That goes for everyone else too. All Canucks. Spend a billion on a summit or an unjust war or a gun registry but can't provide Canucks with the basics of life? Bullshit. And, yes, I know Harper didn't bring in the gun laws... when I say PM, I mean every one of them... since Trudeau it's been all downhill. But, we are gonna get a cash infusion from China buying oil sands and potash and... everything else, eh? |
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Subject: RE: Attawapiskat-Deplorable conditions (N. Canada) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 15 Dec 11 - 06:25 PM Forgot to link the article, in wikipedia, but very good. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attawapiskat_First_Nation |
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Subject: RE: Attawapiskat-Deplorable conditions (N. Canada) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 15 Dec 11 - 06:36 PM The PM in no way can overturn the treaties, provincial authority, band (Nation) structure and the Canadian Constitution. gnu, what you suggest is possible in Syria or Iran, but not Canada. He can persuade his members to authorize more money, and suggest stewardship. The feds would have to move in and take over to guarantee outcome, and that is not constitutionally possible. Unfortunate, but that's how it is. |
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Subject: RE: Attawapiskat-Deplorable conditions (N. Canada) From: gnu Date: 15 Dec 11 - 06:58 PM I do not accept, Q, that the PM is bound by any laws or treaties or anything else when it comes to providing leadership to get the job done. I am not talking about subverting any such... I am talking about leadership and common sense. These people (and not just the First Nations) are suffering while the PMsss live(d) in luxury and got rich doing so... it is a travesty. Maybe we are saying the same thing BUT, when I say it, I am blaming the PMsss for not getting the job(s) done. Simply shrugging off the duty to all peoples by way of details and protocol is simply bullshit. I'd link Pink's Dear Mr. President again but I've done that to death. Maybe we are not on the same page but I doubt if we more than one page apart. |
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Subject: RE: Attawapiskat-Deplorable conditions (N. Canada) From: Ed T Date: 15 Dec 11 - 10:03 PM Let's put aside problems of education, employment, economic development, governing, and social issues. It seems hard to believe that such basic human needs like good access to clean drinking water remains a broad problem in native reserves in many areas of Canada. Same goes for proper septic systems,and housing to survive the cold winter climates. The mix surely includes history, culture, different views on governance, bureauracy and inefficiency, corruption, greed, remote locations, land claims, and considerable mistrust. But, it's hard to believe basic needs could not be worked out, as they seem like something almost anyone could devise a plan and agreement for progress. Yet, there seems so little progress over so many years. Considering the monies spent, if only a fraction went to solve those issues, it seems hard to believe we would be where we are now. While the situation is bad accross Canada, there are success stories where native community have has good success. |
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Subject: RE: Attawapiskat-Deplorable conditions (N. Canada) From: Crowhugger Date: 16 Dec 11 - 01:47 PM "provide the simple basics of life" By which you mean what, exactly? Provide what, provide it exactly how? What, exactly, would you say counts as a "simple basic of life" in remote communities and for urban native folk in this day and age? |
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Subject: RE: Attawapiskat-Deplorable conditions (N. Canada) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 16 Dec 11 - 02:05 PM Saw that a house (type unspecified) costs $250,000 in Attawapiskat. There is no permanent road into the area, only the "ice road" in winter. As a result, materials and food are expensive. Perishables are seldom seen- flown in and very expensive. Water is a problem in the NWT. A purification system is necessary. Surface water is contaminated, and, with the shield close to the surface, toxic mineral substances are a problem. Not cheap. Disposal of waste in the Arctic also is expensive. Plumbing must be heated and above ground in permafrost regions. The First Nations are mistrustful of government personel, they refuse outside administrators and advisors. Attawapiskat has refused third parties as an insult. Of course charging the band $1300 per day for the service was wrong. Government personnel do not understand the needs or customs of the people, and vice versa. At Attawapiskat, the Cree-speaking elders determine policy. Twelve bands are currently under third party management. I have not checked their locations, but most are probably outside the road net. The isolated northern reserves are a difficult problem. I can't offer any easy solutions. |
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Subject: RE: Attawapiskat-Deplorable conditions (N. Canada) From: Ed T Date: 16 Dec 11 - 05:16 PM ""The First Nations are mistrustful of government personel, they refuse outside administrators and advisors."" I suspect there is a good reason for mistrust of government of government appointed administrators and advisors? |
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Subject: RE: Attawapiskat-Deplorable conditions (N. Canada) From: Ed T Date: 16 Dec 11 - 05:29 PM Canada, a kind nation, is known around the world for it's stellar efforts to bring clean and accessible drinking water, and proper shelter and septic systems to remote locations, most often breaking through signicficant challenges. But, when we speak of doing the same with Canadian aboriginal citizens, it is comfortable to raise the many complexities and challenges and shrug it off as if there is no answer to this challenge. It makes one wonder, why the difference? |
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Subject: RE: Attawapiskat-Deplorable conditions (N. Canada) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 16 Dec 11 - 06:36 PM This CBC report says 15 modular homes were ordered for $1.2 million by the federal government; the report says 22 are needed and 22 being built. Just how the contract was revised is not stated. Costs about $100,000 each. Sewer and water connections will be the responsibility of the band council. The government says $90 million given to the tribe since 2006, including $4.3 million for housing. The government has ordered an audit of how the money was spent. The company says it will have the houses built by late December, and is providing a crew of expert installers. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/story/2011/12/14/nb-modular-homes-attawapiskat-508.html I coudn't find any sewer and water information more recent than 2005, and not very satisfactory. This report from the Mennonite Central Committee says 122 families in condemmed housing and 22 families in tents or shacks. To the right of the article are links to other articles about conditions, and First Nations comments, one of which says gov't- imposed solutions won't work. I haven't read these yet. http://ontario.mcc.org/aboriginal Up-to-date independent reports are few and skeletal. |
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Subject: RE: Attawapiskat-Deplorable conditions (N. Canada) From: gnu Date: 16 Dec 11 - 07:03 PM In any case, it is simply unacceptable. And it is unacceptable to me that the PM cannot step up and get the job done. He is supposed to be a leader and not hide behind "red tape". HE is supposed to represent and care for ALL Canucks and be a LEADER. I know I am gonna take flack for this, but, if HE can build hospitals and schools in Afghanistan why the fuck can't he get clean water to Canucks that have needed it for years?... long before the immoral religious "war" in Afghanistan. Fight the Taliban? Fuck the Taliban. Leave them the fuck alone and get some clean water to YOUR OWN PEOPLE YOU IGNORANT FUCK! Is that naieve? OTT? I stand corrected if you can correct me and show me the errors of my comments. |
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Subject: RE: Attawapiskat-Deplorable conditions (N. Canada) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 16 Dec 11 - 07:18 PM Our Father, who art in Ottawa, sole guide of all our destinies, care for us poor sinners, ...... |
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Subject: RE: Attawapiskat-Deplorable conditions (N. Canada) From: gnu Date: 16 Dec 11 - 07:23 PM ...as you would care for yourself. Yeah, right. |
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Subject: RE: Attawapiskat-Deplorable conditions (N. Canada) From: Ed T Date: 31 Dec 11 - 03:51 PM from 1979 |
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Subject: RE: Attawapiskat-Deplorable conditions (N. Canada) From: gnu Date: 31 Dec 11 - 06:38 PM Unreal. |
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