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BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans?
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Subject: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: Songwronger Date: 05 Dec 11 - 11:58 PM Chris Anders of the ACLU Washington Legislative Office wrote The Senate is going to vote on whether Congress will give this president — and every future president — the power to order the military to pick up and imprison without charge or trail civilians anywhere in the world. The power is so broad that even U.S. citizens could be swept up by the military and the military could be used far from any battlefield, even within the United States itself. According to the ACLU, the NDAA in its current form (Relevant material begins on page 359) (1) Explicitly authorizes the federal government to indefinitely imprison without charge or trial American citizens and others picked up inside and outside the United States; (2) Mandates military detention of some civilians who would otherwise be outside of military control, including civilians picked up within the United States itself; and (3) Transfers to the Department of Defense core prosecutorial, investigative, law enforcement, penal, and custodial authority and responsibility now held by the Department of Justice. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: Songwronger Date: 06 Dec 11 - 12:02 AM Oops. Guess I pushed Enter. Senate Bill 1867 was just passed. The House passed it's version of the legislation a while back. Now the differences will be worked out in conference, and the bill will then be sent to Obama. He's said he would veto such legislation. The article referenced above is HERE. Do you think Obama will veto this as promised, or sign it? And bullshit "signing statements" don't count. He either puts his stamp on this turd or he doesn't. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 06 Dec 11 - 01:26 AM Yeah, I heard about it....Damned if he does..damned if he doesn't! Sticky wicket! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: kendall Date: 06 Dec 11 - 07:38 PM He asked for the job! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: ChanteyLass Date: 06 Dec 11 - 09:33 PM I've been following these developments and signed petitions and written letter.to my state senators and representative. This is going to make a mockery of people's right to a speedy trial. Soon we may have no right to a trial ever. Accuse us of terrorism, lock us up, and throw away the key.It's already happened to non-US citizens accused of terrorism. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: pdq Date: 06 Dec 11 - 09:35 PM I believe the bill was introduced by Democrat Carl Levin (MI) and was passed by a vote of 93-7. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: michaelr Date: 06 Dec 11 - 09:44 PM Bush/Cheney policies continued. The 1% are dismantling your rights - and our democracy - little by little. This is a lead-up to the austerity measures that are to come, and a pre-emptive strike against the public outcry that will be the reaction. Anyone - the Occupy folks will be first - can be called a terrorist sympathizer and held indefinitely without trial and without legal recourse. If that's not fascism, what is? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: GUEST,mark-s (on the road) Date: 06 Dec 11 - 11:23 PM If that's not fascism, what is? Oh, be quiet, take your Soma, and remember, "It's good to be a Beta." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Dec 11 - 01:33 AM It's definitely fascism, and it's exactly what I expect to happen whether the Republicans OR the Democrats get elected. That's what's so sad about it. Either party, once elected, will take away your rights, abrogate your Constitution, and shut down your right to do anything about it. They aren't working for you. They're working for a tiny elite that rules over you and owns them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 07 Dec 11 - 02:00 AM Listen to Little Hawk.....he is correct!....Once the Congress, and Administration, and Senate are bought off, they will do ANYTHING THEIR 'financiers' tell them to do...including enforcing treaties, written by and for them, even when they are unconstitutional, and illegal...at least by OUR laws. They will TELL you what to support, and NOT represent what WE tell them! They make TRILLIONS of our tax dollars disappear, and REFUSE to give any sort of accounting, and threaten US, if we should be so 'arrogant' to ask for an audit! Shit, they'll even sell weapons to drug dealers, and PRETEND not to know a thing about it, while the same drug cartels violate our borders, and kill our people....but, its OK!!..WE like it that way! Now they want to shred habeas corpus, the 10th amendment, the 2nd amendment, and virtually EVERYTHING they are supposed to BY LAW, uphold and support....but AGAIN, we have been convinced to just love it and lap it all up.....in the name, and for the sake of whichever 'party' you subscribe to......Shit!...they've even given some of those same advocates, of those party's treason's, a sense or pathetic righteousness! ...but, when it gets stormy out there, and the bleak looks bleaker....you can always 'vote' for the 'lesser of two EVILS'...and think its getting better! Here's a little tune to brighten your day....! Regards! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 07 Dec 11 - 02:39 AM Oh Shit..Here's the full concert..part one! ...and even part TWO! That'll keep you entertained a while! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Dec 11 - 01:16 PM Great blues jamming! We live in an extraordinary time. On the one hand, we're under these incredibly corrupt governmental and financial systems...that's the Dark Side. On the other hand, there is this amazing profusion of talent, brilliance, and creativity in the field of art and culture, and the sheer quality and variety of goods being manufactured and made available to the general public is staggering. That's the Light Side. I don't know whether we're on the threshold of a world disaster or another Renaissance, but it sure is an interesting time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 07 Dec 11 - 03:49 PM Elated that you liked it......I'd much rather hear great jams like that, than listen to another crappy speech from that jerk-off, that the idiots elected, as our president! Hey, did you find anyone to help you open those files, yet? Highest Regards To Ya'!! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 08 Dec 11 - 10:14 AM Just clicked on to this website, Mudcat, and my virus protection, blocked the page, saying it was blocking a threat, from this site. Joe, or Mick, you may wish to check it out! Regards GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: Bobert Date: 08 Dec 11 - 10:29 AM Not sure what the status is but Obama says he'll veto the bill and Obama rarely, if even, has threatened to veto anything... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 08 Dec 11 - 05:31 PM Yeah...and this time, as I said before, it's a sticky wicket. He will be blamed EITHER way. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't..(with all due respects, to Obama). It could be a gambit. Jeez, I hope he makes the right decision..for our country........this time. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: Songwronger Date: 08 Dec 11 - 07:28 PM Oh, he'll sign the bill, but it'll be with a "signing statement" that says he disagrees with the internment parts. Or so I'd wager. Signing statements are the biggest load of crap to pop up in politics in the last half century. They allow presidents to be "a little bit pregnant." This is a funding bill for the military. A president won't veto that. So what's a guy to do? He can say he strongly disapproves of congress giving him the authority to disappear American citizens. Obama's a freakin' narcissistic psychopath who's waging multiple international wars, so do any of you think he doesn't WANT the powers in this bill? Meanwhile, the FEMA camps that have been set up around the country are advertising for personnel. From the goarmy.com ad: Iinternment/Resettlement Specialist | GoArmy.com ... the same discipline. As an advanced level I/R Specialist, you may be involved in: ... back to top. Related Civilian Jobs. The skills you ... www.goarmy.com/reserve/jobs/browse/legal... - 48k Legal & Law Enforcement | GoArmy.com ... Look through the following jobs to see if ... Both; Enlisted; None. Iinternment/Resettlement Specialist (31E ... Internment/Resettlement (I/R) Specialists in the Army are ... www.goarmy.com/reserve/jobs/browse/legal... - 48k Internment / Resettlement Specialist | GoArmy.com ... the same discipline. As an advanced level I/R Specialist, you may be involved in: ... back to top. Related Civilian Jobs. The skills you ... www.goarmy.com/careers-and-jobs/browse-c... - 48k Here's a nice little youtube ad for concentration camp guards. And then there's this reassuring article called New KBR Document Confirms FEMA Camps Soon to be Activated Nationwide. Thank God we have a government that's willing to fight terrorists so aggressively on our behalf. I'm so TIRED of the bombs going off daily. And when things get really bad, they'll resettle me out of my home to somewhere nice and cozy. But Obama will be objecting the whole way, bless him. When they haul away the OWS people during the "spring offensive against the terrorists" he'll tell the protestors that he's one of the 99% and that will give them heart. What a guy. We're so fortunate to have him watching over America. By the way, our more enlightened British cousins have already placed the Occupy protestors on their "Terror" list. Lucky Brits. So fortunate to have their government taking care of them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: Richard Bridge Date: 09 Dec 11 - 01:27 PM refresh |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: gnu Date: 09 Dec 11 - 01:54 PM GfS... link (watched 12 minutes) minds am a Stevie Ray... thanks. And, as for the bill... WTF???? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 09 Dec 11 - 10:22 PM gnu: "GfS... link (watched 12 minutes) minds am a Stevie Ray... thanks." How about this guy? AND: Same guy, again I like 'em all...and have quite a few...Love to turn you onto any and all of 'em \ GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: Penny S. Date: 10 Dec 11 - 04:11 AM Do I understand that the USA government is enshrining in its law a right to abduct anyone from anywhere, whether subject to USA law or not, whether they have ever even visited the USA or not? Who died and made the USA emperor? Penny |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: DMcG Date: 10 Dec 11 - 05:00 AM My immediate reaction to the thread saying that even Americans could be affected is that it implies you think is not much of a problem if the person affected isn't American. Where's the self evidence that all men are created equal with inalienable rights in that attitude? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: Little Hawk Date: 10 Dec 11 - 10:07 AM Exactly. For Christ's sake, it is an outrage that the USA thinks it can treat anyone this way, let alone its own citizens. Countries that take that sort of an attitude will eventually end up at war with the entire rest of the world if they don't watch it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: GUEST,999 Date: 10 Dec 11 - 12:15 PM Interesting video to do with Iraq and issues that seem to be affecting the USA. Takes two minutes and twenty seconds to watch. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&list=PLE77758B5422783A2&v=-k99CFXaerM |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: Songwronger Date: 10 Dec 11 - 01:08 PM The issue that's brought up at the start of this thread is intended to make Americans aware of what's happening with regards to the "disappearing" bill. Americans are fed a steady diet of Tiger Woods and Michael Jackson's doctor on television "news." The news programs don't report anything substantive. So Americans are only vaguely aware of the torture, renditions and mass murderings being carried out in their names worldwide. But now those same practices will be visited upon them (us) when Obama signs this bill. By making Americans aware of this, maybe I can help put a stop to the abuses in other places. And they're hiring for concentration camps. Again, Americans aren't aware. I know we're all egocentric and tend to view things from a personal perspective, and that's fine. That can be good. Wherever you live, get your own house in order. If you're part of the old British colonial system, then you have a fascist government that supports the U.S. Quit it. Tell your prime ministers and such that you don't want to play ball with the U.S. anymore. Or with the Brits. They're worse than the U.S. They're going to hook mortuary crematoria into the power grid to help provide electricity for the country. Shades of Jews in Ovens. The Windsors are stone cold nazis, carrying on time honored traditions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: Little Hawk Date: 10 Dec 11 - 04:39 PM I tend to agree with you, Songwronger. The degree of surveillance of the ordinary public that is happening now in the UK is utterly extraordinay, and you are quite correct that everywhere that is a part of the former British Commonwealth has become part of a politically fascist alliance that is working with USA foreign policy. The Canadian government has been taken over from within in exactly that fashion since the election of the Stephen Harper government...which has the actual support of roughly 40% of the Canadian population, but is ruling as a majority government. Whether the Windsors are as bad as you say they are, I don't know...but I am willing to consider the possibility. The News Media are a joke. I don't watch that stuff anymore. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: gnu Date: 10 Dec 11 - 04:45 PM GfS... AMAZING kid! Thanks. Now, back to 9's link. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 10 Dec 11 - 05:09 PM Oh, you are MOST welcome!!!...I'll check out the link now... GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: Don Firth Date: 10 Dec 11 - 05:10 PM It depends on which news services you get your news from. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: gnu Date: 10 Dec 11 - 05:10 PM Songwronger... those are very strong and controversial words about The House Of Hapsburg. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: Songwronger Date: 11 Dec 11 - 06:12 PM U.S. Senator Carl Levin, a member of the Democratic Party, from Michigan, has something interesting to add to this issue. He is the Chairman of the Senate Committee on Armed Services. Look at him saying in THIS CLIP that the original version of this Senate bill did not have the language concerning the detention of Americans. But the Obama administration insisted it be added. This is one of the BIG CHEESE DEMOCRATS saying OBAMA HISSELF asked for the right to detain Americans. Repeat, this is DEMOCRATIC SENATOR CARL LEVIN saying that Obama asked for the wording of the bill to be changed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 11 Dec 11 - 11:40 PM gnu: "GfS... AMAZING kid! Thanks. Now, back to 9's link." OK..I watched it. Perhaps if we only KNEW, why we really went, in the first place...was it really WMD's? terrorists?? ..or because Saddam was making waves about trading oil in Euros??..or all of them??..or none of them?? What I DO know, is that going over there entailed some shady stretching of our Constitution.....and IF they were THAT concerned about our Constitution, they would have been protecting our borders, and not letting 'trade agreements, such as NAFTA, supersede it! So, something's rotten in Denmark....as the saying goes. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: GUEST,999 Date: 12 Dec 11 - 09:39 PM Effing right, and Shakespeare's got nothin' to do with it, save he used fairly-early modern English to point out that NAFTA was NOT supported by the Canadian people. Just the Conservative government of the time. (It's possible to have a majority of the popular vote in Canada and still not have your vote be instrumental in helping to form the new government.) The American government of the time (1994) was quite happy. The Canadian people mostly weren't, and basically still aren't. As a Canadian, I no longer see the USA as Canada's friend. Rather, I think we are tame enough that we'll listen to "nice doggie" until the USA is hungry enough, then we too will be eaten. Canadian banks were not bailed out. Under Paul Martin in the way-back, here was the guy who kept us out of the present mess speaking today: http://www.reuters.com/video/2011/11/18/attacking-the-deficit-canadian-vs-us-sty?videoId=225363005 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: Little Hawk Date: 13 Dec 11 - 12:04 AM Dead right, 999. Paul Martin saved our financial system, but he got no credit for it. If Stephen Harper had been in power then we'd have been fucked. I no longer see the USA as Canada's friend either...though that does not apply to individual Americans, I hasten to add! They ARE my friends, just not their imperial government/military/corporate structure and their bankers. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: Songwronger Date: 13 Dec 11 - 06:25 PM So is Senator Levin lying? Two minute clip. Watch it if you think Obama's against the bill. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: GUEST Date: 14 Dec 11 - 06:35 PM Florida Rep. Alcee Hastings spoke eloquently against the bill in the House yesterday followed by a GOP pro-bill speaker. "Either party, once elected, will take away your rights, abrogate your Constitution, and shut down your right to do anything about it. They aren't working for you. They're working for a tiny elite that rules over you and owns them. " LH Was it Andy Rooney who said that it's strange that the country is always going to hell in a handbasket but never quite gets there? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: Songwronger Date: 14 Dec 11 - 08:08 PM OBAMA TO APPROVE INDEFINITE DETENTION AND TORTURE OF AMERICANS Less than a month after he threatened to veto terrifying legislation that would cease constitutional rights as we know it, Obama has revoked his warning and plans to authorize a bill allowing indefinite detention and torture of Americans. http://rt.com/usa/news/obama-detention-veto-defense-853/ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: Little Hawk Date: 14 Dec 11 - 11:34 PM "it's strange that the country is always going to hell in a handbasket but never quite gets there?" Germany started going to hell in a handbasket after the 1933 election. They finally got there in April 1945. Italy started going to hell in a handbasket after Mussolini joined Hitler's war with France and the UK. They got there by 1943. Japan started going to hell in a handbasket when their Army generals took over the civilian government and invaded China in 1937. They finally got there by August 1945. Saddam Hussein and Iraq started going to hell in a handbasket when he foolishly decided to invade Kuwait. They got there in 2003 and have been there ever since. The USA started going to hell in a handbasket sometime in the post-WWII years, probably around the time they got involved in abrogating the scheduled national elections and preventing the re-unification of Vietnam, following the exit of the French colonial regime. When will the USA finally "get there" (to hell)? Well, that's hard to say, but "don't think it won't happen just because it hasn't happened yet". (Jackson Browne quote) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: Stringsinger Date: 15 Dec 11 - 06:49 PM The Constitution re: habeas corpus has just been trashed. Indefinite detention? Who's next? Define "terrorist" if you please. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: Little Hawk Date: 15 Dec 11 - 06:52 PM "terrorist" - Definition: anyone who stands in the way of the great imperial design. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: Stringsinger Date: 16 Dec 11 - 03:36 PM The only hope is solidarity with the Occupy Movement which is now all over the world. People are standing up for their rights in spite of being mowed down by police clubs, weapons and corrupt soldiers that defend economic and political tyranny. People in Egypt know what is going on in the US and have seen it before in their own country, as well as in Bahrain, Tunisia, Syria, Israel, Indonesia, Burma and the US. Democracy is not being fed by international oligarchs, transnational corporations, war contractors (now escalated in Iraq), big MIC such as Boeing and Martin Marietta and the hollow leadership emanating from Washington. Americans are starting to appear regardless of how the NDAA would make them disappear. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: Songwronger Date: 02 Jan 12 - 07:40 PM This article does a pretty good job explaining the double-speak behind the NDAA. Obama Crowned Himself on New Year's Eve President Barack Obama waited until New Year's Eve to take an action that I suspect he wanted his willfully deluded followers to have a good excuse not to notice. On that day, Obama issued an unconstitutional signing statement rewriting a law as he signed it into law... President Obama has claimed the power to imprison people without a trial since his earliest months in office. He spoke in front of the Constitution in the National Archives while gutting our founding document in 2009. President Obama has claimed the power to torture "if needed," issued an executive order claiming the power of imprisonment without trial, exercised that power on a massive scale at Bagram, and claimed and exercised the power to assassinate U.S. citizens. Obama routinely kills people with unmanned drones. http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=28442 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: gnu Date: 02 Jan 12 - 07:54 PM So... you don't trust the US government to do the right thing? Surely they will? If they don't, surely the people will take them to task? After all, the people have the right to bear arms? Oh, wait... seems to me that is under discussion, no? Ain't that a kettle of fish? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: GUEST,999 Date: 02 Jan 12 - 09:43 PM "So... you don't trust the US government to do the right thing?" And therein is the LIE, the BIG LIE. There IS no government. It is a group of rich people who have got themselves elected and found it's an easy way to get more cash by selling their votes in Congress to the highest bidders. Meanwhile, taxpayers pay the bills. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: artbrooks Date: 02 Jan 12 - 09:49 PM More than one confused person here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: Songwronger Date: 02 Jan 12 - 10:03 PM Well, Obama signed the bill. He said he wouldn't, then he issued some double-talk saying he didn't, but now he claims he has the right to kill you. Any of you. He just added Americans to the the list last. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: GUEST,999 Date: 02 Jan 12 - 11:27 PM I hope Art is right. Of course, I also want to know why half the American congress is made up of people who are millionaires. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: Little Hawk Date: 03 Jan 12 - 09:02 AM 999 - Because money follows money like a dog sniffing another dog's hind end. And it takes a lot of money to win an election, specially in the USA. People only vote for someone they've heard and seen a lot in the mass media. The mass media are owned by the rich. The rich decide who it is whom the people will hear and see a lot in the mass media. That's a closed circle. With a predictable result. Obama was by far the best funded candidate in the 2008 election, and he looked like "change", so he got elected. It was a cosmetic change, not a real change. This is really Imperial Rome, folks. We have a pretence of democracy through our charade of elections. We have a Senate of rich men. We have an empire. And we are its plebes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama 2 sign bill 2 Disappear Americans? From: GUEST, heric Date: 04 Jan 12 - 10:04 AM I'm certainly confused. Presumably the legislators expect that this provision as written can withstand Supreme Court scrutiny. But it looks like a posthumous honor being bestowed on Osama by all citizens of this country. The President himself criticizes it, saying, undoubtedly with internal shame, that his Administration will be nice when using it, and he promises to ask Congressional permission to change things that seem really unfair in the future. How can he shame himself, and all of us, in this way? And here we are, with no legitimate Presidential contenders on the horizon, stuck voting for him again. Talk about a national malaise. . . . |
