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BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on....
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Subject: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: Bobert Date: 21 Nov 11 - 07:33 PM Obama has landed a wicked left hook on the Republicans today... After a year and a half of playing rope-a-dope he hit the Repubs so hard that they are in lala-land on their way to the canvas... Here's the deal... With the so-called "Super Committee" having failed (every predictable) the Repubs came out today saying that they now think that they should be able to remove the Defense cuts and leave the other intact... Obama said that he will veto any such legislation... Ya'll heard that, din't ya' Republicans??? I love it... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: Bill D Date: 21 Nov 11 - 07:37 PM I have been saying for months that Obama was not stupid about how to deal with all the complaints.... this is one example. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: Bobert Date: 21 Nov 11 - 07:46 PM We seem to see things the same, Bill... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: GUEST,999 Date: 21 Nov 11 - 07:47 PM Does anyone have the names of the members who make up the 'super committee'? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: catspaw49 Date: 21 Nov 11 - 08:10 PM And I for one am happy to see something out of him. I've respected BillD's opinion on this forum for years and I never felt Obama was stupid but I really did believe he lacked balls. In the past few months I have been encouraged to see him growing a pair. Where I disagree with Bill is that I don't think this has been some scheme of his but that he has finally come to the point where he is forced to do what has to be done. Did he know what to do all along? Sure. He couldn't seem to understand or was surprised to see it wouldn't work. The man has always known what he was up against and I'm sure he wanted to make it all a bit easier and friendlier. If anything I think he figured Americans would appreciate him for trying to satisfy all sides. Maybe in another time........ When he ran up against the true hatred he got from the Repub side of the place he tried even harder to be accomodating and that was a huge mistake. What he got for those efforts was a lack of respect and a backlash of the GOP resulting in the friggin' Teabaggers and Grover Norquist and his gawddamn pledge. Now he has gotten the right message going by putting it all on the table and showing the strength the office can have. He's shown more gumption on this than I thought was capable and I am beginning to believe he will stand by what he has pledged to the people of the country. If in the process he kicks Grover in the balls, nothing would make me happier.....unless he had Cantor, Boehner, and McConnell, bent over too. I salute Barack and his new balls!!!!! Congratulations Mister President. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 21 Nov 11 - 08:23 PM He promised change. It was clear that he meant a more grown up attitude in Washington, compromise and cooperation. He's tried it for three years. He's kept his promise. It is time to move on. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: Little Hawk Date: 21 Nov 11 - 11:41 PM To expect a more grown-up attitude to develop in Washington would be like expecting Dillinger to stop robbing banks because it "isn't nice"! Hopeless, in other words. The only way a president such as Obama can press his point effectively in Washington is by being tougher and more ruthless than the people in Congress who are trying to destroy him. If you have the power...for gosh sakes, use it! If you don't, no one will shake your hand for having been such a nice guy. They'll just laugh at you and call you a "loser" or something considerably worse. FDR knew that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: Janie Date: 22 Nov 11 - 12:04 AM Well said, Spaw. I wish he had stepped up to the plate a bit sooner than he has. He has my vote, that is not in question. But it strikes me as awfully cynical that he did not step up to the plate until it became time to start campaigning. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: dick greenhaus Date: 22 Nov 11 - 12:05 AM LH- Just what I've been saying about OWS. No one will be nice to you just because you're camping out and beating a drum. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: katlaughing Date: 22 Nov 11 - 12:09 AM I am really glad to hear this. Thanks Bill and Spaw, you too, Bobert. Always like to read your perspective on things. kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: JohnInKansas Date: 22 Nov 11 - 12:20 AM I've noted that in three separate interviews within the last couple of weeks Grover said he made his decision(s) when he was 12 years old, and quite obviously he hasn't learned anything since. Maybe that's consistent with "only Republicans pay attention to him?" John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: GUEST,TIA Date: 22 Nov 11 - 02:33 AM dicke greenhaus...I am confused. What exactly is it that you think OWS should be doing? Your response to LH seems to imply that you want OWS to be "ruthless". Please correct me or explain. Truly puzzled (not snarking). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: GUEST Date: 22 Nov 11 - 03:13 AM "I've noted that in three separate interviews within the last couple of weeks Grover said he made his decision(s) when he was 12 years old, and quite obviously he hasn't learned anything since." JohninKansas He probably read Fulgham's 'All I Really Need To Know I Learned In Kindergarten' and thinks that 12 years of age sounds more erudite. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: Richard Bridge Date: 22 Nov 11 - 03:54 AM Can someone stick one up Newt too? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: Little Hawk Date: 22 Nov 11 - 06:46 AM dick - I understand what you mean when you say, "No one will be nice to you just because you're camping out and beating a drum." That's true. However, it kind of depends on how many people decide to camp out and beat the drum (figuratively speaking). One has to mobilize such a large number of determined people in the streets that the confidence of a ruling system is shaken and it completely loses its nerve...and then changes...or falls. People all over Eastern Europe managed to do that in 1989. They brought down the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact. Only in Rumania did it turn to violence. People in India managed to do it with Gandhi's inspired leadership, and they ended British Imperial rule. People in South Africa managed to end Apartheid. Young people all over the USA managed to end segregation and the Vietnam War with mostly peaceful protest and civil disobedience. People in Egypt shook the confidence of the Mubarak government and brought Mr Mubarak down with...although it's turned out to be only a cosmetic change...so now they are again mobilizing and protesting. It CAN be done! You just need to get enough people involved, that's all, and you have to shame a corrupt ruling system to the point where its confidence in itself crumbles. OWS does not have enough people mobilized yet to shake down the present ruling system. Not nearly enough. But it IS a beginning. You have to begin somewhere. If you don't begin at all, you'll never change anything. Because we cannot win today does not mean it's not worth fighting for a victory somewhere farther down the line. **** You seem to feel that the most effective way of exercising change is at the ballot box. Well, I wish that were so...but how can it be so when behind-the-scenes lobbying by a wealthy elite is choreographing and controlling all the major political parties? In such circumstances, the effect of one's vote is nullified, because the legislators have been bought out. That's why I feel that nonpartisan political protest is a more effective tool to accomplish change at this time than traditional voting....but by all means, vote anyway, and pick the best choice you can. It can't hurt. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: kendall Date: 22 Nov 11 - 08:38 AM It's about time he showed some spunk. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: dick greenhaus Date: 22 Nov 11 - 09:33 AM Grover Norquist and the Tea Party had had an effect on the political scene with a relatively small number of people involved. Their technique is simple power politics---work like hell to defeat anyone who disagrees with them. If a populist movement has any significant support, they can do the same: Agree to work to defeat any candidate who votes "wrong" on a particular issue, regardless of party. One such issue could be raising high-income tax rates. Powe in politics is most effectively used in threatening to defeat "bad" candiates, rather than trying to create "good" ones. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: Bill D Date: 22 Nov 11 - 11:42 AM "Where I disagree with Bill is that I don't think this has been some scheme of his but that he has finally come to the point where he is forced to do what has to be done...." Well, my opinion is based on MY theory that, 1)Not bothering to combat every ongoing stupidity is hardly the same as 'not having balls'... and 2)When people are acting like the Republicans have been, their behavior soon begins to speak for itself and the rational pundits are better purveyors of sanity than 'getting down in the mud' personally. I really believe the Republicans would have LOVED to have Obama waste his time fighting with them every step of the way so they would have more detail to criticize...instead of the constant barrage of generalities they spew instead. Only the hard-core base is fooled by birtherism, accusations of being a socialist, being soft on terrorists, 'failure' to pass legislation...(who voted against all the ideas, including their own?)....etc.. Obama can now assert, rightfully, that he TRIED bipartisan compromise on many issues and got only irrational bickering as they blocked even bills they had once supported. Oh...and point #3...people have short memories-- if he had used all his ammo and shown his hand too soon, it would have been lost in waves of rhetoric. Now, as the Republicans are conducting debates like a circular firing squad and trying to dismantle the EPA and mess up Medicare and defund teachers and police & firefighters and Gerrymander all the voting districts, much of what Obama needed to explain is becoming quite clear to voters who weren't already committed to anything Rush & Newt said. All Obama needs to do is say, "See? I told you so!" and do stuff like he just did about the super-committee failure. It's hard to tell just how successful it will be, but "showing he has balls" is not his basic style, and may have been useless in the climate of the last couple years. Now...when it matters, he IS making it clear that HE is the rational one and is shaming those who created the mess. Anyway, that's MY take.... we shall see. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 22 Nov 11 - 12:43 PM Bill, Is correct! and I am not just saying that because his stance agrees with mine. Assuming the public in 2008 wanted the country to be governed by grown ups, then the best long term strategy would be to behave as a grownup and not to wade through the Republican muck. Not only has Obama had to deal with Mitch McConnell and his ilk, along with Eric Cantor and his "just say no." policies, he has had to deal with idiots like Chris Matthews. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: GUEST,999 Date: 22 Nov 11 - 02:18 PM "Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on...." Obama has landed the promise of a wicked left hook. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: Bill D Date: 22 Nov 11 - 03:35 PM *grin* Chris Matthews is a good example of the rule: "No matter what your politics, religion, club membership, or family composition, there is always someone on YOUR side that you wish were on the other side." Chris means well..(I think).. and I usually agree with his basic position, but he sure does blather a lot as he spends 5 minutes asking a question with HIS preferred answer embedded. He also is so extremely condescending to opponents that I wonder that they agree to appear on his show. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 22 Nov 11 - 04:05 PM At first I wondered why Bobert specified "left" hook. I'm a little slow today. Good one Bob! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: GUEST,TIA Date: 22 Nov 11 - 04:11 PM oops... dick greenhaus says; " Power in politics is most effectively used in threatening to defeat "bad" candiates, rather than trying to create "good" ones" I totally agree. But the power in politics is now money. The Tea Party has lots and lots of money (from Koch, Scaife, etc.) OWS does not have money, it just has people. And OWS is in fact all about getting the money *out* of politics. So any analogy between the two falls apart fast. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: gnu Date: 22 Nov 11 - 04:13 PM Kick em in the nuts B! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: Bobert Date: 22 Nov 11 - 05:44 PM Unfortunately, TIA is all over this... In 90% of elections the candidate who spends the most money wins... It's sad but true... And with psychologists working for PR firms and using control and test groups to tap every conceivable emotion a good PR company could get a favorable rating for Charles Manson of Adolf Hitler... BTW, the Koch money is evident here in NC where the attack ads against Obama have been airing for some time now... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: catspaw49 Date: 22 Nov 11 - 06:04 PM All points well taken Bill but ......... In the current situation Obama is doing it right and you have laid out why. I still believe that from Day One in office he started down a road which would inevitably bring on the problem he now faces. What his opponents saw was that he preferred being understanding and expecting the rest of America was going to be happy about it. Healthcare was an unpopular issue and when the poor guy was saddled with the economic meltdown, I think he felt he could and should do it all right away. He was going to be in trouble on the economy no matter what but it still required a full frontal effort. He felt he had to get into Healthcare right away and his advisors told him that was the way to go. The result was less than the economy needed and he was getting the blame. His healthcare efforts began "in the middle" by giving up on a majority of it and negotiating the rest giving up more and more until the final result was close to nothing at all. Why he did this I don't know. Small balls? Bad advice? The best thing he has going now is the Republican yahoos in Congress and the ones who are running for the Presidency. Romney has just put out an ad that tries to show Obama has shifted from "his own words." The fact is they are not his own words and the last guy to call someone else out like that should be Romney who has expressed 5 opinions on every issue. Obama's current set of advisors are doing a far better job than the first batch. With a stronger group of Repubs I would be worried a lot more than I am. "We've refused to quit." I like that. In it is the room to control a negotiation and still hold your ground. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: Bill D Date: 22 Nov 11 - 06:27 PM Yeah.. I see the point(s), but Obama is no Lyndon Johnson. Lyndon would take a Republican into his office and 'explain' why they should vote for something. But.... Lyndon didn't face THIS band of Republicans either. They have a **slogan**... "Deny Obama everything, then fault him for not producing!" I know that the small health care bit he got thru has already saved US a bunch, and will do more as the donut hole shrinks. Obama, IMHO, has done wonders with the cards he was dealt....and yes, this clown parade may yet give him 4 more years. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: akenaton Date: 22 Nov 11 - 06:35 PM Still fighting partisan politics?.....the hatred is palpable. I think we deserve what is about to happen to us, there is no real excuse for stupidity in this forum. Do you really think the re-election of Mr Obama, or even the election of Mr Kucinich is going to affect the real problem in our society?....The wheel is in spin and gathering momentum. Get into the wagons and head for the hills! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 22 Nov 11 - 07:28 PM "Still fighting partisan politics?.....the hatred is palpable." Really, seems to me that everyone on this thread is pretty much in agreement except for you. Tell us more about that "palpable" hatred please. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: Bobert Date: 22 Nov 11 - 07:42 PM No, Bill, Obama isn't a Lyndon Johnson but Lyndon had been in Congress for a long, long time and had established hundreds of personal relationships at a time when that was possible... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 22 Nov 11 - 08:03 PM Could Johnson even have been elected President without Kennedy breaking the way for him? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: Bobert Date: 22 Nov 11 - 08:15 PM No... Johnson was just a back slqappin' Southern bigot in 1960... Boy, did he ever take a ride over the following years... All on Kennedy's coat tails but ended up doing a lot of good stuff... I have a love/hate thing with LBJ... He was a redneck that much is fir sure... But he also put his and his party's balls on the line with the Civil Rights Act... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: Bill D Date: 22 Nov 11 - 08:16 PM Probably not... but Johnson made a judgment that he MUST carry on JFKs agenda... to the dismay of the Dixiecrats. Obama is what he is, and he has many pluses. It will be a gangbusters of a race in 2016. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 22 Nov 11 - 08:19 PM Lets see how 2012 goes first. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: catspaw49 Date: 22 Nov 11 - 09:22 PM I know all about the love/hate for LBJ but in the end many good things came out of his time in the White House. One certain advantage Lyndon had was his time in Congress and his passion for politics. He knew where the bodies were buried and he bullied much through. But LBJ counted on all those folks wanting to be reelected whereas this new bunch would rather serve a single term than get off the Teabagger train and Grover's pledge. I am amazed at the power a lobbyist like Grover seems to hold over them. Boehner got damn little from the "we have nothing to lose" group of newbs. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 22 Nov 11 - 11:03 PM To be fair to the Newbies, they are dancing with the ones that brung 'em, Bigotry, hatred, intransigence and Koch money |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Nov 11 - 12:31 PM Yup. And you can add Fear to that list. Fear is a very powerful political motivator. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: Bill D Date: 23 Nov 11 - 12:59 PM I fear bigotry, hatred, intransigence and Koch money... and ignorance... and all those who USE fear and scare tactics of all sorts to get their way. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: Bobert Date: 23 Nov 11 - 01:07 PM The saddest part about the 8 year long PR campaign to make people fearful is that as fear sets into the cu7lture it makes people less willing to pro-act for their own benefit because they are afraid that they might fail... We need to call the fear-mongering at every corner and get out from under it... It is debilitating and is now costing our nation the competitiveness we need in an ever globalized economy... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama Lands Wicked Left Hook on.... From: dick greenhaus Date: 23 Nov 11 - 02:40 PM What money does in elections is buy votes. If a sizeable bloc of people vote for what they believe strongly in, the money will be defeated. (See Ohio and Wisconsin recall elections). And If I didn't believe that, I'd move to Canada. |
