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BS: Paterno - Penn State Football Coach
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Subject: BS: Patero From: Jack the Sailor Date: 12 Nov 11 - 02:09 PM Anyone else disgusted by all the scandals in college football? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Patero From: bobad Date: 12 Nov 11 - 02:20 PM College football in the states is big, big business and as such is not exempt from it's share of scandals. BTW that should read Paterno. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: Jack the Sailor Date: 12 Nov 11 - 02:26 PM Yes it should. Please correct clones. But this is not a big business scandal. This is a treat the coach as a god scandal. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Patero From: Bettynh Date: 12 Nov 11 - 02:27 PM Jon Stewart got it about right. I'm not sure if that'll play everywhere. Anyway, it's the same-old/same-old. Replace the Church with football, and it's the same mentality. Disgusting but not surprising. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Patero From: gnu Date: 12 Nov 11 - 02:30 PM Well, I ain't surprised anymore. What I am really disgusted with is the recruiting of football players who have not completed their degrees. Then again, did those graduates actually qualify? That's just as big a scandal, if not worse. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Patero From: Jack the Sailor Date: 12 Nov 11 - 02:32 PM Yeah, I first heard it from Stewart. This vigil shows us that there are some functioning brains at the school. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Patero From: Jack the Sailor Date: 12 Nov 11 - 02:33 PM They are pro athletes in every way but pay. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: Greg F. Date: 12 Nov 11 - 04:04 PM Geez, all this tsoris - you'd think these childrens' games like football actually meant something. Imagine if they put all that time and effort into something worthwhile or productive. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: Jack the Sailor Date: 12 Nov 11 - 04:12 PM Like getting a degree? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: bobad Date: 12 Nov 11 - 04:28 PM It's entertainment and there's a place for that in life. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: Jack the Sailor Date: 12 Nov 11 - 04:31 PM Of course there is a place for entertainment. But there is no place for letting an assistant coach bugger little boys in the team shower. There is also no place for cheating against agreed upon rules and exploiting young players. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: Mooh Date: 12 Nov 11 - 05:55 PM http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/11/11/111111-news-penn-state-abuse-6-8/ This link has the chronology and the players. Peace, Mooh. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: Greg F. Date: 12 Nov 11 - 06:51 PM Like getting a degree? God forbid- what would they use THAT for? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: Jack Campin Date: 12 Nov 11 - 07:18 PM I haven't seen any of the news reports, just a few bits of internet editorializing about it (this stuff is not news outside the US). Given that the players are a bunch of musclebound morons buying mickey mouse qualifications by bashing their joints to pulp in gladiatorial contests, and the university administration is quite willing to lend its academic clout to any lump of steroid-fuelled male meat that can boost its ratings in the sports league tables, everybody in this system is a rent boy anyway. Taking the money and privilege and then whining about the unfairness of getting buggered by the coach - an entirely predictable part of the process - is just pathetic. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: Janie Date: 12 Nov 11 - 08:34 PM Scandals in college football don't much concern me because college football doesn't much concern me, and many of the college football scandals derive from the attempt of both colleges and the NCAA to pretend that college athletics are not about big business. The way the top administration of Penn State dealt with allegations that a powerful assistant coach was sexually abusing young boys is not a football scandal. It goes far beyond a sports program, and is illustrative of institutional problems permeating societies that go far beyond "institutions of higher learning." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: catspaw49 Date: 12 Nov 11 - 09:10 PM The lesson to be learned here has more to do with life than football. It speaks to the fact that no matter how many good things you have done and how you have lived, there is always the chance that you can wipe it all out in an instant with one bad decision. In this case there are so many people involved that its also easy to see how the institution becomes the prevailing entity. The litany of people both at Penn State and in the government that dropped the ball here is very long. How many kids were sodomized and otherwise molested even after the first time Sandusky was found out and how many more after Penn State knew the truth? The first problems were known in 1998 and the Penn State shower room rape was in 2002. Joe Paterno did what was legally correct by notifying his superiors at PSU in 2002. Could he and should he have done more? Most of us would like to think we would but Joe has been at Penn State for 61 years and perhaps he trusted too much for the university to do the right thing. Personally, I'd want to believe that most of us would have intervened in the shower room but that isn't what the grad assistant did. Instead he told his Dad.....who said the tell Joe Paterno. That alone shows just how much power Paterno had. That Paterno did not call the cops directly was the mistake of his life........and that's very sad. See, JoePa graduated his kids. Penn State players got real educations. The fact they have been so clean for so long makes all this much worse. Penn State has always stayed above the fray and represented what could be so great in college athletics. And while I detest what he did in this case and feel deeply for the children AND the parents of those so gruesomely assaulted, I also have to mourn a bit for fallen heroes. I never went there but everyone who follows college football knows about Joe Paterno and the great program and legacy he built. That's all gone now as it should be but for many years we all looked there for what could be.................... One mistake................... Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: Jack the Sailor Date: 12 Nov 11 - 09:11 PM It is a football scandal in that if it were the Dean of Science or the Head of maintenance covering for an assistant, that department head would have been replaced when the coverup was attempted and/or the assistant would have gone to jail. This was a case of a university employee somewhat openly committing a felony on University grounds. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: catspaw49 Date: 12 Nov 11 - 09:12 PM first sentence in 3rd paragraph should be "PSU" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: Jack the Sailor Date: 12 Nov 11 - 09:21 PM Well said Spaw. It is a shame to see a hero to so many fall. But yhis brings me to your first sentence. In the whole grand scheme of things, the ruined life of even one little boy outweighs every "great" thing Paterno did. Football is just a game. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: Bobert Date: 12 Nov 11 - 09:52 PM Man, we gotta lighten up... This guy did what he was supposed to do... Heck, what ya'll want??? Superman??? Ya' want the guy to be investigator, prosecutor, judge, jury and the henchman??? Lets get real here... The people making this guy the Devil have more skeletons rattlin' around in their closets than Carter has live pills... The least that Penn State could have done was let the man coach out the year (one friggin' game)... This thing has hypocrisy all over it... Shame on all these righteous sinners... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: Jeri Date: 12 Nov 11 - 10:26 PM He should have done more, but everybody who knew should have done more. Paterno simply equals Penn State to many people. So many people in the chain, but it's his name in the thread title, and the papers and on the TV. The thing is, I don't know how many of us would have done better. We would have told the right people, and let those ones responsible handle it. If we kept pushing, we might have lost our jobs, and for all we knew, the people we told HAD done the right thing, even if we didn't know about it. But the press is now the judge and jury, and we, the public, is executioner. This is also a first for me: knowing more about what the fuck is going on than Jack Campin. And he calls those Penn State students "morons"... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: Janie Date: 12 Nov 11 - 11:08 PM I had not thought about it in those terms, Jack. I agree. I also second your "well said" to 'Spaw. I'm not sure agree with 'Spaw that Paterno made a Bobert, Paterno is not to blame for either the alleged sexual abuse, nor for the apparent cover-up by senior administration. I don't think anyone is making Paterno "the devil." I think Paterno acted on the report he received appropriately, and that unless one has first hand knowledge, there are many legal and ethical issues involved that may place constraints on how one responds. I also think the Trustees took appropriate action because the institutional issue is much bigger than the career of one person. Paterno was not dismissed because he acted wrongly. He was dismissed because it was in the best interests of the University that he was dismissed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: GUEST,Jon Date: 13 Nov 11 - 12:57 AM I also think the Trustees took appropriate action because the institutional issue is much bigger than the career of one person. Paterno was not dismissed because he acted wrongly. He was dismissed because it was in the best interests of the University that he was dismissed. I'm not following you here. I don't think it can be meant this way but its reading to me like an approval of scapegoating. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: kendall Date: 13 Nov 11 - 06:55 AM I hope they put Sandusky in general population in prison. He'll find out what it's like to be the fuckee. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: GUEST,gillymor Date: 13 Nov 11 - 09:09 AM To me one issue here is not too complicated. Any responsible adult should have picked up a phone and dialed 911 immediately after learning of this abuse or suffer consequences for their inaction. This abuse apparently went on for at least 5 years after Paterno was made aware of it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: Greg F. Date: 13 Nov 11 - 09:45 AM It is a shame to see a hero to so many fall. Hero? Please. Just shows how the concept of a "hero" has been trivialized to the point of meaninglessness.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: Jack the Sailor Date: 13 Nov 11 - 11:07 AM Paterno was certainly a football hero, near the top of the coaching pantheon. There were a lot of folks in the USMC and in places like Kent state and Montgomery AL in the 1960s and Tahrir square recently who were real world heroes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: dick greenhaus Date: 13 Nov 11 - 11:25 AM Legal responsibility aside, how do you explain someone continuing to work closely (Sundusky was sttill actively scouting and recruiting for Paterno this year) when you know he's an unincarcerated pedophile? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: Greg F. Date: 13 Nov 11 - 11:40 AM "Football Hero" is an oxymoron. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: Bill D Date: 13 Nov 11 - 01:00 PM Wow, what a complex issue! It wasn't exactly a 'football scandal', but almost everyone involved closed their eyes after doing the minimum and hoped it would all go away and not become a football scandal....and it is amazing that they managed to get by for a dozen years. I suppose 'they' (meaning everyone who knew Sandusky was a problem) thought that his 'retirement' meant there was no more problem....and that eventually became the problem. He still had access to boys, and still had access to Penn State facilities...and if nothing had happened to out him, he might have been considered to replace the aging Paterno. Sheesh...even the police who knew the basic facts avoided doing anything! Everyone who knew saw that exactly this result would happen, and pretended that it was all 'taken care of. They wanted to believe that Sandusky was 'ok', and just tried not to see the deeper problem. I think the regents did what they needed to, even though Paterno and several others will probably avoid direct criminal prosecution. It's too bad that lying to one self is not a crime. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: Lighter Date: 13 Nov 11 - 02:13 PM If McQueary had caught a *stranger* raping a kid in the team shower, would he have called the cops? Would any of them? What makes this case any different? Oh, right: the perp was their pal. "Builders of Character." "Heroes." How do these guys sleep at night? ("Just fine, thanks! Now pass some of that football glory!") |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: Stringsinger Date: 13 Nov 11 - 03:21 PM So Paterno made a hail mary pass. What else is new? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: olddude Date: 13 Nov 11 - 06:43 PM Not defending him at all. But he was screwed the moment it happened. if he goes right to the police, the administration fires him for not going through the proper University channels first... If he goes through the University channels and lets them handle the police call ... he is screwed when they don't and try to cover it up .. a lose lose situation ... I can assure you if someone came to me , I go right to the cops and not worry about the administration ... but that is me .. and that is why Joe is gone |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: olddude Date: 13 Nov 11 - 06:46 PM He knew better, he knows about all the cover ups in the Catholic church. He was wrong and it is a shame that his career ended this way .. Me I feel sorry for the damage that other coach creep did to all the kids ... times like this I want to set aside my faith and ask to let me alone for five minutes with the creep ... I would have his nuts floating in a jar |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: olddude Date: 13 Nov 11 - 06:52 PM by the way, conservative estimates place the Penn State football program at 70-100 million per year. If the league wants to really make a difference, suspend the team for a year or more.. That would do far more for firing the coach and the administration will do nothing |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: Lighter Date: 13 Nov 11 - 07:47 PM > if he goes right to the police, the administration fires him for not going through the proper University channels first. You can't fire an employee for reporting a crime to the police. Particularly when it's nationally beloved Coach Joe Paterno. Had Penn State been stupid enough to try (inconceivable), Paterno would have filed a multi-million dollar lawsuit, which he would easily have won through settlement. Not to mention that the board of trustees would have instantly quashed any such firing. Arguably the most influential person on campus, Paterno had a colleague's eyewitness account of a heinous crime committed on campus, within spitting distance of his office, and he chose either to cover it up or to acquiesce in a cover-up. Not only that, he kept working with the alleged perpetrator on a daily basis. Something's very wrong with that picture. It's an interesting question whether all those concerned might not be liable - civilly at least - for enabling a pedophile to commit further assaults. If anybody thinks that McQueary is off the hook because he was afraid of losing his own job, he couldn't have been fired either. Not that his graduate assistant job could begin to compare with the safety of a child - or children. (McQueary's father apparently didn't urge his 28-year-old son to call the police either. What a bunch!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: bobad Date: 13 Nov 11 - 07:54 PM Someone should file a Paternoty suit against him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: GUEST,gillymor Date: 13 Nov 11 - 07:58 PM Dan I believe he had a third option. He could have gone to the administration and said you call the cops or I will in order to protect our children. Apparently his interests lay elsewhere. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: Lighter Date: 13 Nov 11 - 08:16 PM Exactly. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: olddude Date: 13 Nov 11 - 08:19 PM I am in agreement with you my friends. He dropped the ball big time ... no excuse and he is where he belongs ... fired ... I do think banning the University from football for x number of years would be appropriate also. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: catspaw49 Date: 13 Nov 11 - 08:42 PM I know what I would hope I would have done but I wasn't there.........I can't forgive the police who knew all about it in 1998 nor the D.A. that could have prosecuted him then. Its hard to find much forgiveness for anyone involved and yet, more than once in some "right choice" situations I remember an old bit from Lenny................. "Yeah man, I'd never sell out my country! I wouldn't do it, no way man. I would NEVER sell my country out........uh,say...What are they doing with that other guy?..............They got his pants down............Why are they heating up that lead for over there?..............Aw, it doesn't matter, I would never sell out, no way man..........uh, why are they putting that funnel in his ass for?.........That's OK, I would never......Hey, they're not going to pour that hot lead in the funnel in his ass are they?..............WOOOOOOOWWWEEEEEE!!! THEY DID IT!!! GEEZIZ MAN...........I'll tell you all the secrets....I'll MAKE UP secrets man.........Just don't give me the hot lead enema......... Yeah, so that's it ain't it? If you can take the hot lead enema, you can cast the first stone............" What is unforgiveable is seeing that nothing was happening and still doing nothing. For that, I have no understanding at all. And the dude who saw it happening has no standing anywhere as a human being. I cant think of any excuse for him at all. Saw a former player the other day who said he would have called 9-1-1 and said, "You need to send an ambulance to the football shower room. Coach Sandusky is laying on the floor unconscious and bleeding." Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: GUEST,Jon Date: 13 Nov 11 - 09:49 PM For that, I have no understanding at all. Understand is perhaps the wrong word and perhaps I'm wrong in this but I'd guess it was kept quiet "for the good of the college" as I'd guess "for the good of the church" was a factor in the catholic business. Institutions that become (let's say) "too holy" to be able to admit to or face up to the problem and (perhaps to be kind) very misguided loyalties. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: Bobert Date: 13 Nov 11 - 10:05 PM Ya' know what happens to "whistle blowers" in the US??? That are shunned... They are fired... They are demonized... That is fucked up... Change it around so that good people can step forward when they shee bad stuff happening and guess what??? You have changed our culture... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: GUEST,mg Date: 13 Nov 11 - 11:37 PM I tell you what I would do, and trust me, I would do it if I saw someone raping..that is the word that has been used..raping..a young boy..I would pick up a baseball bat or a chair or whatever was handy and I would bash the daylights out of him or die trying. Then I would call 911 and they would probably put me in jail instead of the creep, but that is what we as adults have to do at times. I can not understand the young coach going home and only telling his father..if he could not do something on the spot..and if you have seen pictuers of the man..a big strong guy.. it is hard to think he could not have...he could have at least called the police and then his lawyers and then his father. What kind of people are we producing in these universities? mg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: GUEST,mg Date: 14 Nov 11 - 02:13 AM I am very confused...especially by McCreary's father...if his son was in a state of shock or disbelief or in awe of the football cult..how could the father stand by knowing a boy needed immediate medical attention..and frankly needed to be found to make sure he was still alive. The father and the son are a disgrace..and if they are as Irish-American as their names sound..a disgrace to their ancestors..those that inherit their names and their spirit..a name that a shame never has been connected with etc...how could the father not have even picked up the phone and called the police himself? And told his son to get in the car.(I think they were in same town but not sure).we are going to go find this boy and take him to the hospital or make sure the police do.....there is a larger story here and that is what kind of men..no offense to fine men everywhere....are we raising..when supposedly the manliest of them in the manliest sport witness a child being raped and do nothing for a while..at least retroactively..and don't let women off the hook either. mg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: Richard Bridge Date: 14 Nov 11 - 04:07 AM It seems to me that the college was in loco parentis and so had a duty to report to the police - so I can imagine LARGE lawsuit from victim. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: GUEST,kendall Date: 14 Nov 11 - 09:51 AM If I should catch a pedophile in the act, I would hope that I was not armed because I would want to blow his goddamn brains all over the room. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: GUEST,kendall Date: 14 Nov 11 - 10:21 AM Notice that I said I would want to, not that I would. A good hard kick to his ribs would do until the cops got there. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: BTNG Date: 14 Nov 11 - 11:00 AM I should be disgusted, but I'm not. I should be surprised, but I'm no There will be law suits, but for all the wrong reasons, and, of course, the lynch mob mentality is alive and well |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: olddude Date: 14 Nov 11 - 11:06 AM The only thing that would make a statement would be to ban the team from competition. That would cost the University 100 million a year. That would work |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: Ebbie Date: 14 Nov 11 - 12:04 PM The adults involved thought only of the impact upon the school and its reputation, with no thought whatever of the 10-year-old. Rather like coming upon a scene of consensual sex between adults, they averted their eyes and attention. If they had seen the assistant coach and, say, a woman staff member engaged in sex in the shower room, they would probably have reacted in precisely the same way: it would have been reported- and then hushed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: olddude Date: 14 Nov 11 - 12:36 PM Ebbie that is why I said ban the team .. if all they care about is the school then thump the school really hard ... what is worse is how many other kids got abused because of their lack of action ... horrifying I think |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: GUEST,mg Date: 14 Nov 11 - 12:43 PM Why would they report a presumably consensual act with an adult staff member in a presumably empty locker room? They should tell them to get a motel room and not let it happen again but this is in no way comparable..this coach and this boy were not engaged in sex..the boy was allegedly being raped, as reported to the grand jury by McQueary. I suspect there was more than protecting the idiotic university..there could have been fear or knowlege of organized crime..and there is a suspiciously missing DA who was working on the case and has a missing hard drive in his computer...oops forgot to ssay allegedly. The cults surrounding some of these sports...especially at the high school level..are beyond troublesome and affect the whole atmosphere of schools. I say give them all a soccer ball..at least in high school..and call it good. mg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: GUEST,mg Date: 14 Nov 11 - 12:45 PM THere are also talk or rumors of the boys being pimped out to donors..and maybe girls it sounds like. I do not know. ANd yes, I think we should ask about these rumors whether they are confirmed or not. Follow every lead..there is more to this than what we have heard. mg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: Jack the Sailor Date: 14 Nov 11 - 12:49 PM I saw an estimate that the Penn State football program brings 70 million to the team and 60 million to the "local economy". It seems that many more than the players would be hurt. They have fired the University President and Paterno. The perp has been arrested. I say that it would be enough for Penn state to set up a 10 million dollar fund for the victims and that they melt down "JoePa's" statue on campus and make anti-child abuse pins from the scrap metal. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: BTNG Date: 14 Nov 11 - 12:58 PM "there is more to this than what we have heard" You have concrete evidence to support this statement? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: GUEST,mg Date: 14 Nov 11 - 02:04 PM Of course I don't. But I think it is our duty as citizens and as adults in child abuse situations to root around for answers as much as we can. I agree about the statue. I had no idea there was a statue of him. At least put a shroud over it until his innocence..total confirmed innocence of any knowledge..is absolute. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: olddude Date: 14 Nov 11 - 02:12 PM The thing is the guy setup a non profit foundation for disabled kids like those with global delays or autism. How many of them did he rape and they cannot tell anyone because of their disability ... I am beyond speechless |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: GUEST Date: 14 Nov 11 - 03:07 PM "I haven't seen any of the news reports, just a few bits of internet editorializing about it (this stuff is not news outside the US." -Jack Campin The Guardian has several pieces (including this morning [14th November]) CBC News (Canada) CTV News (Canada) Global News (Canada) print media in Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------- and this: The president of the children's charity, founded by the former Penn State coach who allegedly sexually abused children, has stepped down, CNN reported. Jack Raykovitz, CEO for the last 28 years, resigned from the Second Mile on Sunday as allegations that Jerry Sandusky abused young boys connected to the charity were revealed by charges brought to a Pennsylvania grand jury. "I hope that my resignation brings with it the beginning of that restoration of faith in the community of volunteers and staff that, along with the children and families we serve, are The Second Mile," said Raykovitz in a statement on the Second Mile's homepage |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: BTNG Date: 14 Nov 11 - 03:12 PM sorry previous GUEST was me... oh and of course the British rag the daily stale is having a heyday with the scandal (no surprise there) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: GUEST,mg Date: 14 Nov 11 - 03:12 PM re need for federal investigations from a former prosecuter http://www.huffingtonpost.com/linda-kenney-baden/penn-state-federal-prosecution_b_1089365.html?ref=sports http://www.huffingtonpost.com/linda-kenney-baden/penn-state-federal- Texas is investigating stories of a child or children being brought across state lines to their game..for what purpose? I repeat..we have not even seen the tip of the iceberg... And I know how some of these things work..I worked for the University of Washington (thankfully no more) and was personally involved in an abuse situation (nothing of this nature)..which I guarantee the president of the university knew about, which personnel department was involved in and participated in the abuse..shameful people...mg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: GUEST,kendall Date: 15 Nov 11 - 10:02 AM Fame and money over morality is disgusting. How many of us have read The Decline and fall of Rome? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: SINSULL Date: 15 Nov 11 - 10:32 AM S. said in an interview that what was seen as sex was innocent horseplay. Apparently, showering with the kids was the norm - just like the grown up players. I would not have allowed my son to shower with a grown man. What am I missing? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: Jack the Sailor Date: 15 Nov 11 - 12:22 PM I saw the interview between Sandusky and Bob Costas last night on Brian Williams' new show. Costas brought up some damning things which weren't well denied. I was most disturbed by Sandusky saying, "I wish I had not showered with those boys." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: BTNG Date: 15 Nov 11 - 02:36 PM "I wish I had not showered with those boys." The only thing Sandusky wishes is he hadn't been caught. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno From: dick greenhaus Date: 15 Nov 11 - 02:44 PM It's not about football--it all about how protecting the image of an organization becomes more important than the rights of victims. Not much different from the recent Catholic Church scandals. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno - Penn State Football Coach From: kendall Date: 16 Nov 11 - 08:06 AM Well said, Dick. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno - Penn State Football Coach From: Jack the Sailor Date: 16 Nov 11 - 12:46 PM Lets be real here and say that the Catholic Church's sins on these matters, were (and probably are still) broader, deeper and much more numerous. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno - Penn State Football Coach From: BTNG Date: 16 Nov 11 - 12:47 PM That's a given |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno - Penn State Football Coach From: GUEST,mg Date: 16 Nov 11 - 04:13 PM I just found out there is a football team..Nashville?? called the Predators. It doesn't sound right, even pre this scandal. mg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno - Penn State Football Coach From: Greg B Date: 16 Nov 11 - 04:48 PM Having had the fortune and mis-fortune of personally knowing quite a few Catholic clergy predators and even more of their victims, I can say that the accounts of Sandusky's behavior ring very familiar. Join / create an organization catering to kids at risk, who are already vulnerable, give them special positive attention, then move in for the "kill." What also rings true is the organizational response: "Let's see if we can keep this quiet." "Will handle it within the family." "Trust the higher-ups to do the right thing (even when it's obvious they didn't)." "Don't make waves." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno - Penn State Football Coach From: BTNG Date: 16 Nov 11 - 04:56 PM No...it's a hockey team!!! Nashville Predators and the word predator has been around far longer that it's current usage. predator: (noun) 1. (Life Sciences & Allied Applications / Zoology) any carnivorous animal 2. a predatory person or thing |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno - Penn State Football Coach From: Jack the Sailor Date: 16 Nov 11 - 05:23 PM I think "predator" is a very poor name for a paedophile. For one think I is an insult to dragonflies and shrews. For another, it implies not only cunning but courage. I think they should be called what they are, "babyfuckers." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno - Penn State Football Coach From: Greg B Date: 16 Nov 11 - 05:48 PM But don't let's forget, Jack, that we're not talking about just paedophiles. We're talking about ephebophiles (those who prey on pubescent or post-pubescent boys and girls) and those who prey upon vulnerable adults. College students at a Campus Ministry Centers can be, and have been, exploited by a charming priest, brother, or nun, who tells him or her, for the first time, that "you are a beautiful person and you are loved and needed." (And that latter is a direct quote from an abuser whom I know, who laid waste to the lives of a dozen or more young men, and who made an attempt on me when I was 19, and in the 3rd year of his being my spiritual director / mentor. ) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno - Penn State Football Coach From: michaelr Date: 16 Nov 11 - 09:27 PM How about a folk song for Sandusky: "Go shag sheep you creepy homo..." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno - Penn State Football Coach From: Janie Date: 17 Nov 11 - 12:56 AM One positive (making lemonade out of lemons) aspect of this is that many people, if and when they encounter a similar situation, may be more likely now to act. Let us hold institutions and the culture of institutions accountable for cultures, practices and attitudes that result in protection and cover-up of abusers. As a society, that means we have to also hold individuals accountable within those institutions even if those individuals took the legally designated actions. However, never let the failure of individuals to act obscure the role of institutional culture in those individual failures. I'd be willing to bet that every single person on this forum, whether they are aware of it or not, knows at least one child who is being sexually abused, knows at least one adult who was sexually abused as a child, and knows at least one person of whom they have a good opinion, based on their own interactions with that person, who either has or is sexually abusing a child. I'll risk going a bit further and say it is likely that there are parents on this forum whose children are being, or have been sexually abused, people on this forum who were sexually abused as children, and people on this forum who are or have sexually abused children. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno - Penn State Football Coach From: GUEST,mg Date: 17 Nov 11 - 07:01 PM I am not at all surprised about the university officials. I know how some are. I keep being surprised by McQueary...even if initially frozen or paniced, not to go back and look for the boy or call the police..I don't get it. But I do not think, like some have speculated, that he made some decision to essentially blackmail the university in return for a good job...I just can't imagine where his instincts were at the time...and I think most men, and I think perhaps more than most women, have the instinct to fight someone destroying the life of a child. Have we made men into beaurocrats and taken away their natural protective instincts? I think quite likely. mg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Paterno - Penn State Football Coach From: Jack the Sailor Date: 17 Nov 11 - 08:06 PM I saw an item today saying that the police do not believe that he reported the incident to the authorities as hr claims he did. |
