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BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question
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Subject: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: MGM·Lion Date: 05 Nov 11 - 07:42 AM I read yet another article the other day about guests who steal from hotels. I was brought up in the hotel industry, and know this to be a serious and expensive problem to hoteliers. But, among the items listed, as well as the reusable imperishables like towels & bed-linen, I was taken aback to find included the toiletries now expected in the shower-room, those mini sachets or bottles of gel and shampoo. Now I would of course never dream of going off with a pair of pillowslips; but I always carry off the unused shower-gels & shampoos. As I see it, the fabric items are indispensable adjuncts to every hotel room, bought by the management and laundered between uses, and obviously remaining the establishment's property. But the toiletries are surely in the nature of a complimentary additional gift to the guest; so that they become my property, to use as I will, either immediately or later at home as suits me, on payment for the room & service. They furnish an agreeable variety of pongs in addition to my customary Lynx gel &c. Clearly I do not regard taking the unused ones with me when I leave as stealing in any way whatever. If I did, I should not take them; but as I don't, I do. What do others think about this? ~Michael~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: Newport Boy Date: 05 Nov 11 - 08:06 AM I agree completely, Michael, although I rarely take them if I'm on my own (since I don't use most of them). Phil |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: John MacKenzie Date: 05 Nov 11 - 08:12 AM Last hotel I stayed at,had wall mounted soap dispensers, over the bath, and the wash handbasin. They contained, dual purpose, soap/shampoo. They're on to you Mike ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: Bainbo Date: 05 Nov 11 - 08:41 AM According to the Clean The World campaign, American hotels discard millions of pounds of soap and shampoo every day, cloggging up landfills and contaminating water sources. Meanwhile, millions of lives around the world are lost to disease because of a lack of simple handwashing facilities. Seems like all you've got to do is stop throwing away the soap, and give it to the people who need it. Simple. That's what the campaign aims to do. It only seems to be active in North America at the moment. But you can do your bit by staying at hotels which support it; or by asking the hotel in which you're staying why it doesn't support it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: Jim Dixon Date: 05 Nov 11 - 08:43 AM Yeah, I've collected a bunch of those myself, but I don't take them any more, only because I already have too many of them. The little things never seem to get used, and they just add to the clutter. At home, it always seems more convenient to use the big bottle of shampoo than to open one of the little ones. I recall seeing the same issue raised in Dear Abby's column—or maybe it was Ann Landers. Someone asked the same question, and the columnist contacted a spokesman of the hotel industry. I don't recall who it was—maybe the CEO of one of the large chains. He said, please, go ahead, take them, with our compliments—just what I'd expect him to say. After all, they do bear the logo of the hotel chain (if it is a chain; I suppose the little independent hotels and motels use generic shampoo) and as such constitute advertising. I see no difference between a tiny shampoo bottle and the books of matches bearing advertising that used to be so common but are now disappearing. However, it has occurred to me, while passing the housekeeper's cart in the hallway, how easy it would be to grab a handful of the things. That would definitely be wrong, in my opinion. I wonder if that's what the writer had in mind. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: Rapparee Date: 05 Nov 11 - 08:47 AM Re-using the little bars of soap, etc. is in violation of the health laws in some places. I only take them with me if I might use them. We have a sufficiency for guests at the house. If only there was some way of getting around the health regulations and reusing the soap! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: Jeri Date: 05 Nov 11 - 09:26 AM I used to take them, but quit because I never seem to use them. I don't think it's legal for them to re-fill bottles. As far as bar soap, there's absolutely no reason why they can't leave the partially used soap if the same guest is staying in that room another night or two. They let people know the signals for whether they want fresh towels or don't mind using the same ones again. You either hang them up or throw them in the tub. I'll bet some places have signals for not tossing the soap. Soap signals. I wouldn't even mind marking a box on a brief cleaning checklist. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: JohnInKansas Date: 05 Nov 11 - 09:28 AM If they're sealed and the seal is unbroken, and the hotel/motel can leave them for the next person, I leave them. If I've opened them, or they're otherwise damaged and can't (or shouldn't) be used by the hotel, I'll often take them just to prevent them from going into the sewer. If I can't - or don't - use them, I usually can make a more environmentally friendly disposal than the hotel is likely to do. Most such stuff really isn't particularly useful except in a hotel/motel, although very rarely a bar of itty bitty cutesy soap might come in handy during a layover in the airport (although it likely will be in a bag that's already been checked when you think about using it). As to taking anything I haven't already "spoiled" by opening it, my attitude is "why should I be bothered with something useless." John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: VirginiaTam Date: 05 Nov 11 - 09:50 AM Technically I have paid for them so they are mine to take even if I don't use them. But I don't want the clutter of little bottles and soaps so if I have not opened them I leave them. Once upon a very long time ago, if the toilet roll was nearing the end, I used to take it to have tissues in the car for wiping kids snotty noses. But I don't have the little kids anymore so don't do that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: artbrooks Date: 05 Nov 11 - 10:21 AM I also see them as a perk of staying - and paying - for lodging. The Unitarian church where we folkdance has a drop-box for things like that (and the cheap toothbrushes you get from your dentist, etc.). They are distributed at homeless shelters. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: JohnInKansas Date: 05 Nov 11 - 10:38 AM take it to have tissues in the car I worked for several years in an office where the life expectancy of a box of tissues was about 11 minutes, before the whole box disappeared. (It was one guy, and we all knew who he was.) When I switched to keeping a roll of TP on the desk the problem disappeared. Of course reasonably decent brands of US tissues are the same paper for both. I'm told that reasonably good quality UK TP is more like UK sandpaper or scouring pads, but I haven't been there to check it out. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: jacqui.c Date: 05 Nov 11 - 10:40 AM I'm involved with the local women's shelter and those little toiletries are like gold there. I always collect them for that purpose and now my daughter, when she goes away on business. collects them for me. If any of you out there know me and have any that you want to get rid of I'm happy to take them. They will be used. On the moral point - unlike hotel linen, if you use them while staying in a hotel they've gone, so I can't see that taking them away can be considered to be stealing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: Howard Jones Date: 05 Nov 11 - 10:45 AM I do quite a bit of travelling where I won't be staying in hotels - I'll be camping or using a mountain hut. The little bottles and bars of soap from hotels are far more convenient to carry than the usual sizes. They're also allowable as hand luggage on flights (although since I still can't get my contact-lens solution in 100 ml bottles I still have to check in my luggage). As I see it, they're consumables which I've paid for. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: katlaughing Date: 05 Nov 11 - 11:24 AM I don't usually take them as I cannot use them due to allergies, BUT I do have a really neat collection of small soaps from the 50s and 60s which my dad brought home to me from his travels in the oilfields of the West. Each one is different and, now, historical. Most from non-chain hotels, so even more unique as well as having old-fashioned packaging. I am picky about pillows. I have actually asked to buy a pillow a time or two, when I've found one I like. One place did let me purchase one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: Murray MacLeod Date: 05 Nov 11 - 01:12 PM I know this is thread creep, and forgive me, but since the subject line contains "hotels", "gifts", and "moral questions", I feel justified in raising the issue. In the UK, the amount lost to hotels through purloining of toiletries pales in comparison with the amount that hotels rake in through misappropriating (with the full blessing of the law) the tips and gratuities which unwitting guests intend to go direct to the staff, but which are universally diverted into the owners' pockets when the guests make these gratuities by credit or debit card. The law states that the employer may use these gratuities to make up the basic wage of his staff, he is not compelled to make any payments over and above. No doubt some employers (probably a very small minority) do in fact pay the staff the gratuities as intended by the guest, but in the vast majority of cases, they don't. The solution of course is simple. When you stay in a hotel, or eat in a restaurant in the UK (or for that matter in any EEC country) make sure that when you tip the staff, you do so directly and tip them in cash, and refuse to pay any bogus "service charge". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: Jean(eanjay) Date: 05 Nov 11 - 01:40 PM I always consider that the amount paid by me to stay in the hotel includes the price of the toiletries provided and since only enough are provided for a stay then, if unused, it is not stealing to take them. However, I do not ever use or take them because they are usually highly perfumed and I have to use toiletries that are not perfumed and for sensitive skins. I always take and use my own toiletries. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: SINSULL Date: 05 Nov 11 - 02:36 PM I used to, in my travelling days, take them home and give them to to the family kids. Something very speocial about a personal bottle of shampoo to a little one. Last year my sister in law who travels for business gave me garbage bags filled with expensive brand miniatures. Jacqui delivered them to the local homeless shelter where they were warmly received. I too believe that the cost of the room includes the soap. M |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: GUEST Date: 05 Nov 11 - 02:56 PM "Re-using the little bars of soap, etc. is in violation of the health laws in some places." (posted by Rapparee) The service mentioned by Bainbo, Clean the World, uses a special process to sanitize the used bars of soap to make them reusable. Their process has been independently tested and proven to completely eliminate all pathogens. They then distribute the sanitized soap to people in impoverished countries to fight diseases that are easily spread in areas with poor sanitation. Clean the World collects used soap from hotels, but they also accept unused soap donations. They have instructions on their website for how your group can host a soap drive. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: Noreen Date: 05 Nov 11 - 04:25 PM JiK- exactly when were you told that... reasonably good quality UK TP is more like UK sandpaper or scouring pads ? 40 years ago perhaps? I remember Izal toilet paper (which was rather hard and unpleasant- but good for playing tunes with a comb!)) in public toilets when I was a child, but we have had nice soft toilet paper at home for a very long time, thank you very much! :) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: Richard Bridge Date: 05 Nov 11 - 08:01 PM Cue Startrek jokes... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: JohnInKansas Date: 05 Nov 11 - 08:30 PM Noreen - It has been quite a while since I've had a good discussion of TP. Some years ago I worked with a fellow who was a "former TP scientist" who provided elaborate reminiscences of "technical group discussions" of samples collected by reps from his former company from around the world. At the time, there was a distinct difference in the expectations of users in the US vs those in the UK. I would presume that those in the UK now consider their development of more tender asses to be another "invasion of US culture" despoiling British tradition, but things do change, of course. And the topic here was getting a little stale. I was tempted to ask if some always take all the little sugar and creamer packets placed on their table at a restaurant when they leave. After all "they put them on my table so they must be mine." Seems a lot like the unusable/non-useful soaps and stuff in the hotel rooms. But I was afraid someone might think I was actually accusing them of such puerile behavio(u)r so I won't ask. I don't see a particular problem with the "disposables" in the hotels; but most people realize that they're not worth bothering with after about their third trip in a hotel room. Some don't seem able to get over how "cute" they are - even if they can't really be used very effectively; and good hotel managers should recognize the costs for the percentage of "guests" who will think they want the stuff, and charge us all appropriately. I guess the real question is why one should/would feel guilty enough to ask if it's okay. I usually assume if you have to think about it, it's not worth doing if it's not necessary for some clear reason. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 05 Nov 11 - 10:47 PM As I type this, I'm staying at a budget motel that doesn't provide shampoo. I'm glad I grabbed the unused comps from a recent stay at another motel and tossed them in my bag. They saved me from having to either get dressed and go buy shampoo or wash my hair with bar soap. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: GUEST,marks(on the road) Date: 05 Nov 11 - 10:56 PM Got to agree with Jacqui and Art. Food banks and shelters really appreciate donations of soap and shampoo. Please - Take and donate them. Mark |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: katlaughing Date: 06 Nov 11 - 01:32 AM WOW! Thanks for the link. I've got to get to bed,but will finish watching this tomorrow.This is great!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: ChanteyLass Date: 06 Nov 11 - 03:27 AM My policy: if I've used them but some is left, I take them, and I don't open them unless I'm going to use them. I carry my own products in case none are available but use the motel's products if they are in my room. If I haven't opened them, I leave them. The opened products are great when I'm showering at the Y because they are light in my backpack. Unopened products: it's tempting to take them, but because I stay in budget motels I hope that my leaving them keeps costs down. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: VirginiaTam Date: 06 Nov 11 - 08:50 AM Some budget hotels are now using wall dispensers of soap and shampoo in the rooms. I think this is sensible. I like that they ask you to consider the environment by reusing your towels. I don't take the sachets of sugar etc. from either hotel or restaurant. My ex used to take ketchup sachets for the sports teams he worked with. He claimed it was a great to quickly combat cramps on the field was to have victim suck down a couple of packets of ketchup. I am with Noreen on the TP thing. I have experienced bad TP in the US especially in Virginia schools mid 60s to late 70s. At my current work TP isn't very effective and with 38 (more than 3/4 are women of menstruating age) people in the building it gets used quickly. We have now been rationed to one roll per toilet per day, because the building manager is certain we are stealing it. It really isn't worth stealing and seems only to disappear out of the ladies and disabled access toilets and really goes fast when there is a cold making the rounds. I am trying to find a study that shows how much TP is used by women of childbearing age so I can prove to the misogynist downstairs that he is not supplying TP to thieves. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: Nigel Parsons Date: 06 Nov 11 - 01:28 PM I'm not a great one for the 'smellies' (soaps/shampoos) I take my own preference. But ... I am glad of an opportunity to top up on single service sachets of coffee (I always leave the de-caf) or tea bags. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: Penny S. Date: 06 Nov 11 - 02:28 PM I have on occasion asked about the toiletries, to be told, in an amused way, that they are complimentary, and it's up to me. I cannot understand people who think that applies to towels, bathrobes, ash trays, or anything like that. Penny |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: GUEST,Patsy Date: 07 Nov 11 - 06:22 AM I have no quibbles about taking unused shower gels or shampoo or the individual sachets of coffee and remaining tea bags. A budget hotel I stayed at recently though had a solution to this and provided 1 shower gel and 1 conditioning shampoo to share between two people which I thought was really stingey but then again people and businesses are tightening their belts any way they can. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: EBarnacle Date: 07 Nov 11 - 09:19 AM My union regularly meets at a hotel in the Albany, ny, area. Our most recent meeting was shortly after Hurricane Irene. With the knowledge of the hotel we were all asked to bring unused consumables to a collection box in the assembly room. They collected several large boxesful. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 07 Nov 11 - 09:38 AM Hotel freebies are great for use in bath houses at festivals. No hassling with transporting wet full-size soap bars. No worrying about leaving your shampoo or shower gel behind. Just use the freebies and leave 'em there for the next person. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: open mike Date: 07 Nov 11 - 09:55 AM I keep and re-fill these little containers for when I need a supply of shampoo etc. while travelling. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: Jim Dixon Date: 07 Nov 11 - 10:20 AM How about the Bic pens and notepaper? I have taken them, too, even when I had no need for them while staying at the hotel. But I feel slightly uneasy about it. How about all the freebies that salesmen give away at trade shows? Pens, pads of Post-it notes, calendars, rulers, refrigerator magnets (which I suppose in an office setting should be called file-cabinet magnets), letter openers, tote bags, golf tees, little bottles of hand sanitizer, coffee mugs, mouse pads—I've taken them all (except the golf tees, because I don't play golf). Then there are the gauges, charts, maps, and gadgets that are peculiar to whatever industry you're in. I know these things are designed to be given away, but I feel uneasy about taking things from a salesman if I'm quite sure that my company would never buy anything from his company. In that case, it does the salesman no good to have his advertising in my office, so I'd feel I was taking unfair advantage of him. I know some of my colleagues don't share the same compunctions, and they come away with everything they can carry. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: BTNG Date: 07 Nov 11 - 10:23 AM Thou shalt not nick that which is not yours |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: GUEST,Patsy Date: 07 Nov 11 - 11:08 AM On the other hand if I leave too many complimentary toiletries I worry that hotel staff will think that I am not terribly clean so I am more inclined to take it than leave it unused. But that's about all. If there is note paper with the hotel logo and number I would assume they know you would take it possibly to show people and spread the word about the hotel. Last Autumn I stayed in a really nice hotel in the Cotswolds and it was one of those that had the main hotel for breakfast, meals etc. but had individual private lodges. The only room that was available this day was a plush luxury one with a King Size bed that you could lose yourself in, but half the price only because the ceiling had not been painted they were in the process but hadn't quite finished it. On the complimentary table was the usual tea, coffee, drinking chocolate and biscuits but in the middle was a decanter of sherry 3 quarters full. It would have been tempting to down it all or pour it into something else and take it but good manners prevailed and we left some in the decanter for the next guest. If it is a good place it is nice to give a good impression in case you ever want to return to stay again. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: Stilly River Sage Date: 07 Nov 11 - 11:24 AM If you take the stationary pad they probably write that off as advertising. If you use that in another context you're saying to whoever receives the note that you use that hotel. They have to throw away anything that has been used; I wouldn't be surprised if they also have to change out the toiletries with every customer in case of tampering. You're paying for it. My ex picks up all of those and every so often sends them out to another friend who donates them to a homeless shelter where she volunteers. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 07 Nov 11 - 12:51 PM This reminds me of when I was teaching. Some of the staff used to half-inch almost anything useful, pens, paper, card, PVC glue. I don't want to sound goody-goody, but I never did. I'm sorry, but it's greedy and it's stealing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: BTNG Date: 07 Nov 11 - 01:14 PM and when they were in fashion, I knew of people what half-inched the three and half inch "floppies"...now they were bloody expensive to begin with....as Eliza states, it's greedy and it's stealing, and there's no justication for it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: Becca72 Date: 07 Nov 11 - 02:01 PM I actually bring my own towels and toiletries as I have pretty serious allergies. HOWEVER, from this point forward I will be taking them and giving them to my wicked step-monster to bring to her ladies. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: Ed T Date: 07 Nov 11 - 02:32 PM To me, most are inferior to the products I normally prefer to use. So, I bring my own, and leave the ones they offer to guests. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: Jim Dixon Date: 07 Nov 11 - 02:41 PM "Half-inched"? That's a new verb to me. I assume it means "steal." Can anyone explain where it comes from? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: gnu Date: 07 Nov 11 - 02:43 PM Becca... "wicked step-monster" Hahahahahahaa. I like it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: fat B****rd Date: 07 Nov 11 - 03:05 PM JIm, 'halfinch' is rhyming slang for 'pinch' |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: Charmion Date: 07 Nov 11 - 03:06 PM Half-inched = pinched = swiped (stolen) I always leave them; Edmund always takes them. Since I rarely (i.e., never if I can help it) stay in a hotel without Edmund, I guess that means we take them. The wee bottles of shampoo, lotion, conditioner, soap etc accumulate until Edmund has enough to fill a shopping bag, at which point they go to the church for delivery to the innercity ministries' drop-in centre for homeless people. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 08 Nov 11 - 07:31 AM Additional rhyming slang:- a tealeaf = a thief! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hotel gifts: a moral question From: Bonzo3legs Date: 08 Nov 11 - 07:47 AM We rarely use English hotels, but in hotels used in Spain and Argentina, customers are expected to use/take shampoo/shower gel/comb/razor etc provided - and of course they are all covered by the price of the room. |
