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Tech: Special characters in MS Publisher?
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Subject: Tech: Special characters in MS Publisher? From: GUEST,Mike Ballantyne Date: 19 Jan 08 - 12:39 AM Does any one know how to create a Roman 'c' with a hachek (a little 'v' over the letter, found in transliteration from Cyrillic)in MS Publisher. When attempting to import a c hachek from WORD, Publisher translates it as an e grave. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Special characters in MS Publisher? From: JohnInKansas Date: 19 Jan 08 - 03:06 AM Question: when trying to import - - from what? If you use the Character Map (that should be on your machine if you have MS Publisher), it should paste correctly. (You do often have to resize when you paste from char map.) If it doesn't come across as what it should, it is likely that the font you're using in Publisher doesn't contain the character, so it's substituting "something close." You can also check what specific characters are in any font you have loaded in Char Map. Usually CharMap is at Start|Programs|Accessories|System Tools|Character Map with an icon that's supposed to look like a small key from a keyboard. You can also usually read either the ANSI or Unicode "character number" for a character from Char Map, by looking at the "information bars" at the bottom or the flyout when you hover on the char. In recent Word versions, if you type the Unicode number (the hex form) and immediately hit an Alt-X it should toggle to the glyph you want. I don't use Publisher enough to know if the same thing works there, but I would expect it to be a general thing throughout most Office programs of recent enough issue. For ANSI code characters, with NumLock on, typing the ANSI code number on the number pad with the Alt key held down should insert the character, but I believe the char you want is outside the ANSI range. John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Special characters in MS Publisher? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 19 Jan 08 - 04:00 AM Publisher should have some characters you can import into the text that includes this one. SRS |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Special characters in MS Publisher? From: Rasener Date: 19 Jan 08 - 04:32 AM Is it this character è If so, what you have to do is have Publisher open. Click on Start, Programs, Accessories, System Tools, Character Map In the character map dialogue box, select the font style you want. Having selected the font style you want, scroll down the characters until you find è or whatever it is that you want. Click on the character you want and then click on the Select button Click on the Copy button. Click into your text box in publisher and paste the character (Ctrl +V) I hope that helps |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Special characters in MS Publisher? From: Rasener Date: 19 Jan 08 - 04:36 AM Damn, Mudcat is displaying it as a different character than the one I copied. I pasted the c with a v over the top. Mudcat has made it an e. However follow the procedures in my previous post and find what you want. It will paste into Publisher correctly. At least it does in mine. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Special characters in MS Publisher? From: Rasener Date: 19 Jan 08 - 04:39 AM It prints correctly as well. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Special characters in MS Publisher? From: JohnInKansas Date: 19 Jan 08 - 05:27 AM I think the character wanted is ĉ. In case that doesn't show in the browser, it's a Unicode char # U+010D. The Unicode standard (brief look only) flip-flops between calling the little "over top v" a caron or a hacek (alt hachek), apparently depending on what it's used for or in which language. I can paste it correctly into a text box randomly inserted into a page in Publisher, directly from Char Map; but I've had so little use for Publisher that I can't guess what "conflicts" might occur. The program appears to impose rather rigid format/template strictures on what you create, especially if you use the "built-ins," and it might "force" a default font on a pasted character - to a font that doesn't include the particular char you want. John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Special characters in MS Publisher? From: Brendy Date: 19 Jan 08 - 05:35 AM Is it not this character....: Č - č Yer man said there was a 'V' over the c 'C with Caron': Capital letter = U+010C : Small Case = U+010D B. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Special characters in MS Publisher? From: JohnInKansas Date: 19 Jan 08 - 05:37 AM The c-hachek displays as expected in my browser but may not in yours. That's the nature of html. Vilan's displays as an acute c, (ć), U+0107 on my browser. (The acute c, in the parens, came across as something different in a preview, so I've used the html code there. My preview now shows it ok.) This is a tough subject to work easily, since both keyboard layouts and chars in a given font as it came with your computer may vary, depending on where you bought your computer. For computers "internationalised" to particular places, the same character code may map differently to the screen. (For the record, I'm using very ordinary US stuff. UK has differences that may not be obvious.) John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Special characters in MS Publisher? From: Rasener Date: 19 Jan 08 - 05:41 AM Yes Brendy, thats the one I pasted over into publisher, without any problems visually or printing wise. So that looks the way to go Mike. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Special characters in MS Publisher? From: Brendy Date: 19 Jan 08 - 05:46 AM No, fair enough lads.... John, your post just before mine shows your 'c' with a circumflex..., but as you say.., the nature of html. I find that when I use the Scandinavian æ ø å, etc., I sometimes have to make a small jpeg of the word, if I need it to display properly (on a page banner, for instance) B. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Special characters in MS Publisher? From: JohnInKansas Date: 19 Jan 08 - 05:56 AM Don't feel bad Brendy. When Microsoft published the definitive Developing International Software, 2d Edition that gives about 1100 pages of their version of how to do "all the characters" everything in the book that wasn't on a "standard US keyboard" was typeset as "images" created by the "graphic artist" on the project - - because Microsoft couldn't, (or wouldn't spend the money to) set up a computer for the production people so they could type (or even code) the characters. [But don't tell anyone I told you that.] John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Special characters in MS Publisher? From: Rasener Date: 19 Jan 08 - 05:58 AM I will :-) |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Special characters in MS Publisher? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 19 Jan 08 - 06:31 AM Bloody hell MS-Pub!!!! Hiss! Hiss! I got conned into wasting money on that pile of dog doodle years ago, cause the "We'll help you get a job" course I was sent on insisted that they used it to produce all their stuff including A6 size 'business cards'.... etc. Well it said it would 'make a web page from a Word document'. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha!!!!!!! Ah - 2 page Resume! Right then! Click! churn, churn, churn, churn, churn, churn, churn, ... 20 mins - pop up on screen goes teh 'web page'... hmmm, don;t seem to be able to naviga.... oh! it TOOK THE TEXT, TURNED IT INTO A BLOODY BIG GRAPHIC FILE!!!! (that's what took so long!) and the 'web page' just says (in computerese) "Display Image"!!!! I could have fooking done that by bloody hand!!!!! Ah! well not so bad really, I suppose, I did Oh! Ha! I see! the graphic is not quite WHAT I thought it was on first look - the bloody thing has given me an image of the first page ON TOP OF the other page - you can just see the outline of the second page at the bottom and right sides... maybe there is a second graphic .......................................... oooooooo, nope! S**T!!!!!!!!!! |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Special characters in MS Publisher? From: Mr Red Date: 19 Jan 08 - 11:39 AM surely the charcter map depends on the font. Arial has loads of special characters that can be displayed in browsers with hash codes. I experimented with hash codes and browsers behave differently so really you have to be very careful. Or run several browsers - and not the most modern either. I run IE5.5 Mozilla 1.7.8 and Opera 3.5 to test my websites. Does publisher embed the fonts in it's file? if not, only the print-out is guaranteed to be right when you give the content away. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Special characters in MS Publisher? From: GUEST,Mike Ballantyne Date: 19 Jan 08 - 12:00 PM Thanks Villan, you're a gem. And thanks very much to the rest of you for your input. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Special characters in MS Publisher? From: Rasener Date: 19 Jan 08 - 01:24 PM You are welcome MB |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Special characters in MS Publisher? From: JohnInKansas Date: 19 Jan 08 - 08:10 PM Mr Red especially, but as info for others - to read when you have nothing else (useful?) to do. Using a different browser will show whether the html interpreter that the browser follows a particular set of the "rules for html." There has been "more than one" version of the rules as published by the Standards Organisation. Using different browsers will also tell whether the "proprietary html methods" some browser publishers have used will "fail gracefully" in another browser with its own different deviations from the standards. The "blink" and "scrolling marquee" are among specific notorious non-standard things that work differently - cause problems - or are ignored - in different browsers. A font - the specific "graphical design" and the glyph shapes that correspond to specific codes - can not be patented or copyrighted. ONLY THE NAME of a font can have a copyright. This permits "designers" to steal freely and use any character glyph, from any "font" they can get, to correspond to any character code, as long as they give the "full set" their own new name. (A couple of decades ago, Corel Draw!© included built in routines with default different "font names" to "convert" © fonts likely to be on any machine to "new fonts" to be used without licensing by anyone who had their program - basically by just renaming them.) Some fonts are available, with the same names, from the "legal" sources, with a standard set of characters or with an "extended set." A very few contain a "Full Unicode Set" of glyphs, but even these may require additional software and setup to actually use quite a few of the characters. There are a number of programs available, some good and some not so good, that people can use to "design their own fonts." A result of this is that a lot of "free-lance" designers copy (and post) fonts of varying quality, often using an existing font name for something entirely different. It is very difficult to tell whether a font you have is "genuine" except by getting it from the "parent source" via the "conventional manner." There is a very large number of different keyboard layouts available for Windows users and the default layout will depend on where you buy your computer. Windows Keyboard Layouts allows you to select a keyboard to see where the keys are, for approximately 108(?) different ones; but unfortunately it forces you to look at them one at a time, so getting an overall view is tedious. (Other "specialized" keyboards are not included here.) Note the link at the sidebar that offers "design your own layout." Since Win2K, and more completely in WinXP, the functional keyboard can be changed quite easily, with the most common change being to invoke the International Keyboard that corresponds to the default language for which your Windows was distributed. The International Keyboard that you get is specific to the default language for your Windows. Microsoft KB 306560 "How To Use the United States-International Keyboard Layout in Windows XP" tells how to install and use ONE of the many. Separate instructions may apply for differently "Internationalised" systems. Windows (also true for all other OS that I've heard of) does NOT USE the font you select directly. When you choose a font, keyboard layout, language, and a few other possible Back on topic: I did find a KB article that states specifically that Publish in Win95 and in Win98 does not support more than a few "special characters." This does indicate that at least "way back then" the char handling in Publish was in some way different than for other Office programs. Win95/98 lacks some "international capabilites" found in later versions, so full font use can't really be expected generally in either of them, but the article implied that Publish was even less capable than other Office programs. I would not expect that information to be applicable here(?). John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Special characters in MS Publisher? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 20 Jan 08 - 07:38 AM "the article implied that Publish was even less capable than other Office programs." Hahahahaha! You ARE referring to MY story? :-P :-) |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Special characters in MS Publisher? From: JohnInKansas Date: 20 Jan 08 - 07:57 AM Foolestroupe - We've heard your stories before. I actually was referring to a Microsoft Knowledge Base article, originally issued for Win95, and "reviewed for accuracy" about a year ago. I haven't found anything that says that current versions of Publish don't have full char capabilities, but it might be suspected that new versions still work a bit differently than other current Office programs. Note that I'm not arguing with your story ... but a few of yours remind me of a couple of fishermen I've known. The big fish they caught just kept getting bigger every year, even though we skun 'em an' cooked 'em the same day we caught 'em. John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Special characters in MS Publisher? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 20 Jan 08 - 08:17 AM "Foolestroupe - We've heard your stories before. " :-P I was NOT making that up you know... I also tried using WORD Aggghhh! to format the thing into a web page... did I ever tell you that I don't use WORD any more? ... and it had so much bloat and crap in it, that I just hacked it and hand coded it... now I type html in a plain ascii text editor - EditPlus - which also has plugin that colourize the elements and that helps catch errors real fast. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Special characters in MS Publisher? From: JohnInKansas Date: 20 Jan 08 - 02:37 PM Now don't get excited, Foolestroupe. Them fishin' buddies of mine caught every fish they bragged about. Never made up a single story. And I don't blame you a bit for complainin' about Word, 'cause as I recall you only recently got a new modern setup. With the old thing you had "Save" probably meant you needed a hammer an' a chisel to write it on a rock. I remember when Word went from DOS to the first Word for Windows, and they really messed up my hand-coding PostScript to make drawings in Word 'cause the new version put an EOF char on the end of the file when I did a .txt save, and the EOF choked the printer. It took me a long time - - maybe whole minutes - - to figure out that a DOS "type filename > filename" solved the whole problem 'cause DOS TYPE doesn't send an EOF at the end, so the file got writ back on itself without one. You can rest assured that nothing I've said was intended to question your technical prowess or your memory. Some pictures I think I've seen that you posted1 suggest that you might be reaching "grown up" now, and it's time for a decision as to whether you intend to try to become a "wizened elder" or just another senile old goat. (There are certain inititation rituals to be observed for either course.) 1 I'll check back to make sure. Maybe some of the pictures were somebody's pet goat. Some children are soo sensitive. John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Special characters in MS Publisher? From: GUEST,Mike Ballantyne Date: 20 Jan 08 - 05:15 PM Well that didn't work. What version of Publisher are you using Villan? We note that our version is 1997 and that the fonts are may be being offered in a very limited edition. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Special characters in MS Publisher? From: JohnInKansas Date: 20 Jan 08 - 07:16 PM On my Office 2002 SP3, (with Publisher 2002 SP3), I can insert the character in Word, using the Unicode value 010D and diplaying the glyph with the Alt-X switch, or by pasting from Char Map. Copied from Word and pasted into a text box in Publisher, it displays correctly on the monitor. I get the same result using Char Map, copying the character and pasting directly into Publisher. Both methods print the character correctly. I get the same results in Office 2007, Publisher 2007, in Vista (with quite a lot more clicking useless/redundant menu bars and attempting to read the baby-talk in verbose babbles about which menu I should use and why I picked the wrong ones.) Although I find Publisher exceedingly clumsy to use, to the point of being not worth the extra effort for any of my purposes, the font behaviour and character glyph display seems "perfectly normal" and is not particularly different than would be expected for an Office program about 20 years older than the Office suite in which the program appears. The most likely cause of a failure to present the correct glyph, if the character is inserted correctly would appear to be that the font you're using in Publisher does NOT CONTAIN the character you want - or that the version of Publisher you're using does not have extended font capabilities. I'd have to experiment a lot more to be sure, but it appears that when you paste isolated characters in Publish the font you copy may not be the font you get. (It may be, but it's hard to tell, since a highlighted text doesn't display what it is in the format box when you choose Format|Font.) Publish does appear to impose some rather bizarre conditions on where you can do certain things, and in order to paste text it's necessary to create a "text-compatible object" in which to do the paste. In most cases, I assume that would mean a text box. Reformating my pasted characters to a number of other fonts that I would expect to contain glyphs for extended characters doesn't affect the appearance of the correct glyphs for the fonts applied. The text format function in Publisher is too crude to tell exactly what it did with a couple of "short table" fonts that probably omit at least some of the characters with diacritical marks. If you happen to be using Publisher from an Office 97 (a common version with Win98SE and earlier) or an earlier version, see the note at the bottom of the previous "more than anybody wants to know" post. These older versions do not normally have the ability to use "extended character set" fonts in the ways we've learned to expect in later versions. For Win95/Publisher see Multi-Language in Publisher. Functionality was progressively improved from there forwared - probably. If you're using one of the very old versions of Publish, your only options may be to find a font "localized" to a language that uses the characters you want, or find one of the old (now mostly obsolete) fonts that map "special characters" to the ANSI char numbers normally used for "standard text" characters. (The substitution here is about like what you'd get if you change the format of ordinary text to something like Webdings or Wingdings font, except that you'd choose a "special" font that contains the char glyphs you want.) Click on Help|About Publisher in your version of Publisher and let us know what version you're using, so that we know if we're all talking about the same thing. John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Special characters in MS Publisher? From: JohnInKansas Date: 20 Jan 08 - 07:22 PM Either a cross-post or a cross-thinking glitch: I see a reference to Publisher 1997. This version does not have full international character capabilities, but I don't have anything handy on where it sits between Office 95 (with almost none) and later versions with "pretty good" capabilities. It is fairly likely that "your lawnmower won't cut grass because it's a cultivator" - i.e. it doesn't have necessary features. John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Special characters in MS Publisher? From: GUEST,Mike Ballantyne Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:23 AM Thanks John. Yes, it looks like we need a newer version: I'll check on that tomorrow. Keep well, Mike |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Special characters in MS Publisher? From: Rasener Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:51 AM I am using Pub 2000 with Vista and that works. It would seem that 1997 version can't do it. They finally got you. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Special characters in MS Publisher? From: JohnInKansas Date: 21 Jan 08 - 02:47 AM There were two separate limitations with early versions. Win95 had limited extended character ability. The article linked above indicates that Publisher 95 could not use all the capabilities that Win95 could use in some other programs. Win98 offered very little more in the way of extended char ability than what was in Win95. There was some improvement, but not much. Office 97, including Publisher 97, was the "Win98" Office most used, so far as I know. Using Win98 or earlier with any version of Publisher is likely to fail to produce extended characters as you'd like to do. Using Publisher 97 or earlier with any Windows version is likely also to fail in the same ways. Since WinME was essentially Win98SE with a new chrome stripe on it, I would not expect much additional performance from it in this particular area, but I never ran WinME. Win2K was essentially "NT4 with Plug-N-Play" and had the ability to handle extended characters generally, with the appropriate setup and programs. Office 2000, and Publisher 2000, probably both were "international character set capable." WinXP with Office 2002 had pretty good capabilities, with "slightly more graceful" handling in my experience than Office 2000 on Win2K; but my observations are based mainly on using Word when I had both of these configurations running. I don't recall ever even opening Publisher on either our Win2K or WinXP machines. (In fact, I didn't realize I had it on my WinXP/Office 2002 setup until yesterday, and I've been running the same setup for about 5 years.) Vista advertising says that it's improved, but there is no useful information on how to actually use any "advanced capabilities," so I can't really say what's there. I'm still trying to get Office 2007 on Vista to type a letter. Help file searches, and searches at Microsoft for support articles just return more advertisements with no information in them. Office 2000 or later (if a version earlier than Office 2007 runs on Vista) should have the capabilities needed. I can't offer any opinion on what the "Works" that comes with may Vista machines can do, or even if contains a "Publisher" component. John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Special characters in MS Publisher? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 21 Jan 08 - 06:35 AM "whether you intend to try to become a "wizened elder" or just another senile old goat." Too late. I've already reached "Granpa Simpson" status by my reckoning, but certain friends assure me that I'm not 'an old man' but an 'old woman'... |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Special characters in MS Publisher? From: GUEST,Edthefolkie Date: 21 Jan 08 - 07:12 AM Thanks chaps especially JohnInKansas for untangling this horrible can of worms. For years I've thought it's increasing age which causes me to mess up special characters in letters, e-mails etc. and now I find it's large corporations failing to adhere to common standards. What a surprise. Oh well....back to my reading my Burroughs B5500 manual - WOW, it's got 32kb of memory! |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Special characters in MS Publisher? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 22 Jan 08 - 06:13 AM Hmm, I've got a collection of Burroughs manuals somewhere - um... B800?! can't remember or find it now.. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Special characters in MS Publisher? From: Mr Red Date: 22 Jan 08 - 01:12 PM Word - HTML - bloat Dreamweaver has a special menu entry just to strip-out Word crap. ingnoring Microsoft's wish to be able to display Office inside a Browswer I am sure there are clues for MS if they wanted so they could count the illeagal copies if they wanted - and I am sure they sample that. |
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