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BS: Direct democracy
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BS: Direct democracy |
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Subject: BS: Direct democracy From: John on the Sunset Coast Date: 29 Jun 07 - 12:02 AM I believe that in the not to distant future, perhaps even in the lifetime of some of you younger ones reading this, that the United States will no longer be a representative republic, or a democratic republic, nor a representative democracy. With the advent of 'all news all the time,' the blogosphere, fora like Mudcat, talk radio, and technologies not quite invented, there may be no need for legislative bodies. We can have a direct democracy, a government by consensus. The web can be the equivalent of the bollas and ostrica of ancient Athens. The folks with the most outrageous (this term can mean good or ill) imaginations will be the ruling class. Any thoughts on this? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Direct democracy From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 29 Jun 07 - 12:15 AM What's wrong with the old-fashioned rule by the deserving? People who don't own property shouldn't be allowed to vote- they don't know how to take care of it and make it grow. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Direct democracy From: Gurney Date: 29 Jun 07 - 12:17 AM It would need an implementing body for administration. This body, let us call it a 'Government' for the sake of tradition, would do pretty much what it wanted "For the general good." It would also have secrets. Doesn't sound very different, really. Computer whizzes could also finagle votes to get their way. Hmmm. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Direct democracy From: mrdux Date: 29 Jun 07 - 12:27 AM Public opinion in democratic societies is indeed a pitiless dictatorship. -- Charles Baudelaire |
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Subject: RE: BS: Direct democracy From: Ebbie Date: 29 Jun 07 - 01:15 AM Doesn't sound too far removed from an SF story I once read. Don't remember the author or the title but the premise was that people isolated themselves in their own homes. Their social and political lives were conducted by means of life-size images on a wall. It really does seem to me that man has found himself (itself?) on a path of his own devising but one he never looked down before he picked up his pack. What I really expect will happen is that the unwieldy populations will be decimated by disease/catastrophe and that we will once more become careless/carefree/cynical/fatalistic or whatever else would explain it. Only to do it all again. Does anyone remember 'Future Shock'? I often remember it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Direct democracy From: Sorcha Date: 29 Jun 07 - 01:19 AM Wall screen.....maybe Orwell? 1984----sheesh, is it really almost 2008? No, I don't think this idea will really fly well. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Direct democracy From: mrdux Date: 29 Jun 07 - 01:24 AM i seem to remember wall-sized interactive TV screens in Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451, maybe? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Direct democracy From: Grab Date: 29 Jun 07 - 07:39 AM Ebbie, several sources for that. One is "The machine stops" by Forster. Also the Spacers in Asimov's "Robots" stories had the same setup. We can have a direct democracy, a government by consensus. How? So you want every decision in government to be made by a web vote? That means every voter has to check out the dozens of issues on a daily basis for their vote. Good luck getting that working. Remember that the Athenian form of democracy worked because the voters weren't doing anything else - only the rich, privileged minority were allowed to vote, and they had time on their hands. More likely with such a situation is that you get single-issue groups ruling the world. Most of the country might not feel strongly enough about an issue to make sure they're around to vote on it, but single-issue groups will make sure they get their vote in. The effect will be that extreme decisions predominate. In other words, you have mob rule. Nice one. Graham. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Direct democracy From: DMcG Date: 29 Jun 07 - 08:23 AM So you want every decision in government to be made by a web vote? That means every voter has to check out the dozens of issues on a daily basis for their vote. Good luck getting that working. I remember a play in which Peter Cook was PM and got elected on the promise to do run policies this way: everyone had a 'push-button' system to vote on policies. He got people to vote on lots of trivia for weeks or months on end, then announced a particularly important vote was coming up. He explained that he understood everyone was getting fed up with this approach and could they please vote on whether he should have absolute dictatorial powers. Naturally, he was given them overwhelmingly. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Direct democracy From: John on the Sunset Coast Date: 29 Jun 07 - 10:03 AM Ah, Graham, you mis-apprehend me. I brought up this subject because it is a possibility I see for the future, but not my future I hope. I did sort of have "1984" in mind as I wrote it, but more as an opposite exemplar. I must admit that except for "Fahreheit" and "Future Shock" I am not aware of the other works cited. Q, I certainly hope you've firmly inplanted you tongue in your cheek. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Direct democracy From: Don Firth Date: 29 Jun 07 - 02:07 PM For your enlightenment and edification: CLICKY. Woodruff acknowledges what the Athenians got wrong (pointing out that there were contemporaries who recognized the problems and were working to change them), but more importantly, what the Athenians got right, much of which, we are simply not doing. And why what we think of as democracy is not, and what we can do about it. What true democracy is may surprise you. And it's way better than what we are calling "democracy" these days. It's an easy and interesting read, and it's like a manual for anyone really interested in having a democratic government. A real eye-opener. Highly recommended. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Direct democracy From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 29 Jun 07 - 09:01 PM Hi, John. Nope, I mean every word of it. Indiscriminate democracy leads to mediocre government, without aim or direction. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Direct democracy From: Peace Date: 29 Jun 07 - 09:43 PM "... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy." NC |
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Subject: RE: BS: Direct democracy From: Peace Date: 29 Jun 07 - 09:45 PM "What's wrong with the old-fashioned rule by the deserving? People who don't own property shouldn't be allowed to vote- they don't know how to take care of it and make it grow." By virtue of having been born on this planet, every man, woman and child owns property. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Direct democracy From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 29 Jun 07 - 10:12 PM Every man, woman and child occupies property. Whether thay own it is another matter. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Direct democracy From: Peace Date: 29 Jun 07 - 10:14 PM For you, maybe. Not for me. |
