 sj |
||
|
||
Choruses that give the game away
|
|
|
Subject: Choruses that give the game away From: Waddon Pete Date: 14 Jun 07 - 07:28 AM Hello, I was wondering how many songs there were 'out there' in which the chorus gives the game away! I'm thinking of some-one listening to the song for the first time, waiting for the story or theme to unfold only to find that the plot has been revealed on the first page! I must admit to enjoying Columbo...we know who commits the crime right at the start and the fun is in how the felon is caught out, but does this work for songs? Two examples to start the brain cells working....."Casey Jones" (where we know he's copped it after the 1st verse) and "Three score and ten" where we know what's going to happen before it does! Best wishes, Peter |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: Grab Date: 14 Jun 07 - 07:52 AM Clementine My grandfather's clock Mary Ellen Carter And to be honest, with most folk songs you can see it coming a hundred miles away anyway, whether or not the chorus spells it out explicitly. Graham. |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: MartinRyan Date: 14 Jun 07 - 08:36 AM "The False, False Fly" Regards |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: greg stephens Date: 14 Jun 07 - 08:39 AM Makes you wish for rifol rifol folderiddleido, doesn't it? |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: oldhippie Date: 14 Jun 07 - 08:47 AM "Beam Me Up, Scotty" (Tom Rush) comes to mind. |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: DMcG Date: 14 Jun 07 - 08:50 AM To take the question a little too seriously, I think: for many songs the pleasure often lies in the retelling of a familiar tale, not really in sudden twists or revelations. So a chorus giving away the plot isn't the problem it might seem. |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: greg stephens Date: 14 Jun 07 - 08:58 AM The chorus of the Titanic song, the one that goes "It was sad when that great ship went down" spoils the suspense a bit doesn't it? |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: stallion Date: 14 Jun 07 - 09:04 AM Ha Greg, the brownies sang that once at a camp, all the parents jaws dropped with amazement as their little darlings sang it with beaming smiles on their faces.....it was saaaaaad, it was saaaaad......quite a jaunty little number from what I remember |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: GUEST Date: 14 Jun 07 - 09:26 AM "Makes you wish for rifol rifol folderiddleido, doesn't it?" No, it doesn't!
Thanks. -Joe Offer- |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: Snuffy Date: 14 Jun 07 - 10:12 AM The versions of Marrowbones with "... and the blind man he could see" in the chorus do tend to give it away, whereas something like "tiggery tiggery toorum" is a bit more suspense-maintaining. |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: GUEST,Bardan Date: 14 Jun 07 - 10:19 AM A massive number of folk songs follow the similar story lines anyway. I mean you kind of know if someone 'spies a pretty maid' or some variation in the first verse they'll turn out to be the long lost lover who went to sea/the wars. If it's slow and involves love the probability is someone dies, if there are sisters involved in any way they'll get jealous and kill each other etc... It's like all the songs that start 'as I walked/roved out' or 'come all ye'. Folk is just full of clichés. (Still love it mind and it's often nice to see just exactly how the story is told even if you can guess roughly what's going to happen.) |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: Surreysinger Date: 14 Jun 07 - 10:23 AM Snuffy - can't say that I've ever felt that a chorus like "tiggery tiggery toorum" did much to create or maintain suspense [grins]!! |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: Mo the caller Date: 14 Jun 07 - 10:32 AM "it was saaaaaad, it was saaaaad......quite a jaunty little number from what I remember" I always feel that way when someone sings "3 score and ten" and everyone joins in the chorus with gusto. |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: Splott Man Date: 14 Jun 07 - 10:38 AM I think that sometimes it's worth keeping the chorus back until it fits the story to sing it. In Mr Bojangles, for instance, if you sing the chorus after every verse it spoils the narrative. It's better to sing it after the 3rd and last verses in my opinion. |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: Waddon Pete Date: 14 Jun 07 - 10:52 AM Thanks for the interesting posts and ideas..."tiggery tiggery toorum"....I'm not sure I know that one, but I do know many similar and I think there's a thread that explores them somewhere! Cliches in Folk Music, Barden? I'm shocked...shocked I tell you! Joining in choruses with Gusto does rather depend on Gus. If you have a group that gels well and contains good chorus joiner-inners then choruses can raise the hairs on the back of your neck. If it is rent-a-crowd the results can be aweful! Best wishes, Peter |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: GUEST,Young Buchan Date: 14 Jun 07 - 10:57 AM Bit tough blaming Three Score and Ten for giving the game away. William Delf wrote it without a chorus - in fact without the Three Score and Ten verse at all! |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: JennyO Date: 14 Jun 07 - 10:58 AM Mo the caller, I have a lot of trouble keeping a straight face through "3 score and ten", ever since a session at the National when a number of wags decided to have fun with that line "our fishing smacks as well" by hitting their leg or clapping their hands every time the word "smacks" was sung :-) |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: Liz the Squeak Date: 14 Jun 07 - 11:08 AM Add a little holding of the nose on the last line and it goes completely down the pan... the result of a mondegreen where I thought they were singing 'battled with the smell'. LTS |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: Waddon Pete Date: 14 Jun 07 - 11:10 AM Hello Young Buchan, Thanks for reminding us of Willian Delf. He wrote it as a poem, not a song, to sell and raise money for the needy families left behind....but it still makes a brilliant song! Yes JennyO, it's been overdone and that's when the problems set in, but sing it to a group of people who have never heard it before..... Best wishes, Peter |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: JennyO Date: 14 Jun 07 - 11:12 AM Oh no Liz. Now it's completely ruined - along with my keyboard! As you say, KAKSOD! |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: gnomad Date: 14 Jun 07 - 11:20 AM To think I used to worry about the "poisoned men" bit not fitting. |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: JennyO Date: 14 Jun 07 - 11:30 AM Oh dear, it just gets worse - shame, cos it is a good song. |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: GUEST,meself Date: 14 Jun 07 - 11:40 AM 'The chorus of the Titanic song, the one that goes "It was sad when that great ship went down" spoils the suspense a bit doesn't it?' You mean - it went down? And to think - great-granddad was that THAT CLOSE to getting on board - |
|
Subject: Lyr Add: IT'S A SAD, SAD STORY From: Herga Kitty Date: 14 Jun 07 - 03:22 PM Sheila Steafel singing "It's a sad, sad story", and breaking down on the last line of the chorus until she reaches the third and final verse.... IT'S A SAD, SAD STORY We're all in dreadful trouble down in our house Such an awful state of things you never saw For Mother's gone and put us all in mourning And I can't imagine what she's done it for I know the baby's coughing rather badly And the parrot died of grief a week ago And so today I said to Mother sadly "Mother dear, why are you weeping so?" She raised her curly head Then took my hand and said "It's a sad, sad story, a terrible tale of woe And it breaks my heart to tell you what happened so long ago But it's just one year since your father was taken away So we've all put on our mourning ……………….. "Mother dear", I whispered, "tell me truly Our father's story, wipe away your tears. Was he taken from us unexpected Or had you known the awful truth for years? Dad must have had a decent situation He brought us lots of gifts from time to time And though it meant he spent long spells away, Ma To leave her for us can't have been a crime." But she wept all the more And whispered as before …… "Mother though I'm young I think in Heaven Angels will take pity on your pain, Dad's term in Purgatory will soon be over And they will send him back to us again." But though the words I said were meant to comfort They only seemed to add to poor Ma's grief And in a voice so low I scarce could hear her She murmured, "Time is not the only thief. I'll try to tell you why I'll try dear not to cry It's a sad, sad story, a terrible tale of woe And it breaks my heart to tell you what happened so long ago But it's just one year since your father was taken away So we've all put on our mourning, 'cos he comes out again today." Kitty |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: Waddon Pete Date: 17 Jun 07 - 04:08 PM This is a heartbreaking song, Kitty!....what tune does it go by? Thinking about it I'm not sure Grandfather's Clock gives the game away....:0) Best wishes, Peter |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away for free From: Severn Date: 17 Jun 07 - 04:53 PM The only thing that bothers me about the Titanic song is when they talk of how "the iceberg hit the ship". Must've been written by the same guy that filed the safety report. Something jumped out and bit the Exxon Valdiz, too, I suppose. The humans always seem to Exxonerate themselves. I sing "the ship hit the iceberg even if it doesn't rhyme. I tend to change the "Nearer My God To Thee" part as well: "...And the band played 'Barrett's Privateers' (it was a request) And that was just a starter. Then came 'Mary Ellen Carter'! It was sad how that s**t all went down....." Whoever first said, "If it wasn't for ocean liners, all the water would leak out." was not on the Titanic. An Ocean One-Liner"? ....I'll grab my Mae West...... |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: Herga Kitty Date: 17 Jun 07 - 04:56 PM Peter - I've been looking at the notes for Sheila Steafel's "Victoria Plums" CD, and for "A sad, sad story" they say "Unknown, adapt. Steafel". The CD was released in 1998, so I don't know what the situation is about copyright! The whole CD comprises genuine Victorian Music Hall songs, though. Sheila Steafel is a national treasure! Kitty |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: Splott Man Date: 18 Jun 07 - 04:44 AM What's Sheila Steafel been doing these last 30 years? |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: treewind Date: 18 Jun 07 - 06:42 AM Never mind choruses: "The Maid Freed From The Gallows" gives the story away in the title! Anahata |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: Waddon Pete Date: 18 Jun 07 - 03:32 PM "The Maid Freed From The Gallows" gives the story away in the title! This is true! Could be a whole new piece of research here! Thanks for the info on the song Kitty....:0) I'm going to add "The Horn of the Hunter" to the list....there's also another mondegreen in this chorus..dark curlews roaring! Best wishes, Peter |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: jeffp Date: 18 Jun 07 - 04:07 PM I Am Stretched Upon Your Grave. |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 19 Jun 07 - 02:41 AM I'll Send Flowers. |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: GUEST,Young Buchan Date: 19 Jun 07 - 04:41 AM The title of Maid Freed From The Gallows doesn't give the game away - because the song has no title! I.e. no traditional singer would announce 'I am now going to sing The Maid Freed From The Gallows'. They did not generally speaking know songs by title. If they knew them by any 'title' it was usually the first line. Hence the early collectors who used to ask 'Do you know a song that starts As I Roved Out One May Morning?' Usually got at least half a dozen hits! Titles are a result of collectors and editors. Anyway, call it The Prickle Holly Bush and it gives nothing away! The chorus is a different kettle of quorn because that is integral to to the song. Just to show I can contribute something positive what about Sweet Fanny Adams? Shall I never see you more sweet Fanny Adams? You're the daughter I so dearly did love. You were killed and cut to pieces by a villain. But now you're in heaven up above. |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 19 Jun 07 - 07:00 AM I know Sweet Fanny Adams about quorn... |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: treewind Date: 19 Jun 07 - 07:10 AM I'd have to check, but you might well find "The Maid Freed from the Gallows" shown as a title on a printed broadsheet. That said, I applaud your pedantry, and acknowledge that it's well known by other titles too ("Hangman", we usually call it, but "Prickle-eye Bush" too) Anahata |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: Waddon Pete Date: 19 Jun 07 - 09:52 AM Completely by-the-by, but this ballad theme turns up in most of the western folk cultures in some form or other....are there any versions in which she fails to be released? (Another contender for the shortest folk song?) The young sailor cut down is his/her prime is a bit of a giveaway too! Best wishes, Peter |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: treewind Date: 19 Jun 07 - 11:25 AM "Another contender for the shortest folk song?" I heard it cited as such many years ago, before I'd even heard of the song itself: "Hangman, hold your <gasp><choke>"... Obviously works better when you can do the effects vocally. Anahata |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 19 Jun 07 - 05:35 PM A gallows song that concludes the other way, with the reprieve turning up too late, and which has a chorus that doesn't give the ending away, for anyone who hasn't heard it before, is MacPherson's Rant. Though if you introduced it as MacPherson's Farewell, the title the DT uses, that would rather let the cat out of the bag |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: Genie Date: 19 Jun 07 - 10:30 PM Severn, I don't see why an iceberg couldn't hit a ship. By their nature, bergs are floating freely in the ocean. So if both the ship and the berg were moving, I don't know if we could ever know exactly which one "ran into" the other -- possibly both. :) ------------ There are a couple of songs I think are kind of spoiled by singing the chorus too soon, even when we all already know the story. E.g., in The Long Black Veil, the chorus ("She visits my grave ... ") doesn't make sense until after the second verse, which explains that he will "have to die" and why. And some songs have verse sequences where the intrusion of a chorus seems to mess up the story. E.g., in Puff, The Magic Dragon, PP& M wisely chose to sing the last 2 verses without an inserted chorus. Sometimes when you stick a chorus between 2 narrative verses, the listener tends to "lose his place in the story" before it resumes in the next verse. I think it depends on whether each verse contains a rather complete thought (story segment) or not. There are some coupled verses in So Long, It's Been Good To Know You too, where you have to sing both verses to get to the line where someone delivers the title line. Yes, as McGrath illustrates, there are song titles that give away the ending (or punch line) to those hearing the song for the first time. The song known as "Sweet Joan" provides a surprise comic ending for the uninitiated, but if you introduce it by the title Claudia Schmidt uses, that effect is lost. |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 19 Jun 07 - 10:41 PM "songs ... spoiled by singing the chorus too soon" "some songs have verse sequences where the intrusion of a chorus seems to mess up the story. E.g., in Puff, The Magic Dragon, PP& M wisely chose to sing the last 2 verses without an inserted chorus. Sometimes when you stick a chorus between 2 narrative verses, the listener tends to "lose his place in the story" before it resumes in the next verse. I think it depends on whether each verse contains a rather complete thought (story segment) or not. There are some coupled verses in So Long, It's Been Good To Know You too, where you have to sing both verses to get to the line where someone delivers the title line." So there is a "Rule" that you always sing a chorus between every verse and the next? You are just elaborating the concept 'Rules are for the Guidance of the Wise, and Blind Obedience by Fools' :-) |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: GUEST,Kent Davis Date: 20 Jun 07 - 12:18 AM "...Poor boy, you're goin' to die" from "Tom Dula", aka "Tom Dooley". Kent Davis |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: Waddon Pete Date: 20 Jun 07 - 04:14 PM "....it was saaaaaad, it was saaaaad......quite a jaunty little number from what I remember" This may be going a little off task....but why do so many disaster songs have such jaunty tunes? "So there is a "Rule" that you always sing a chorus between every verse and the next?" Not that I know of...but some people think there is! And not just singers either....I know I've been button holed for not singing the chorus after every verse of certain songs. However....does Manure-a Man-ya fit the criteria? (My idiosyncratic spelling for which I apologise!) Best wishes, Peter |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: Waddon Pete Date: 26 Jun 07 - 05:16 AM Deep Blue sea, my love, deep blue sea (x3) It was Willie what got drownded in the deep blue sea. A definite contender...but a lovely song to sing harmony in! Best wishes, Peter |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: Cool Beans Date: 26 Jun 07 - 11:12 AM "The Letter Edged in Black" sort of gives it away in its title. We know someone has died, but we don't know who until until the second verse. |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: mrdux Date: 26 Jun 07 - 05:33 PM how about "Jesse James"? the chorus does seem to sum it up. "Poor Jesse had a wife to mourn for his life, Three children, and they were brave; But that dirty little coward that shot Mr. Howard Has laid poor Jesse in his grave." michael |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: Waddon Pete Date: 15 Jul 07 - 04:04 PM Hello, I guess we could add Calico Printer's clerk to the list! Best wishes, Peter |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: Herga Kitty Date: 15 Jul 07 - 05:16 PM She was always fond of dancing? Kitty |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: Waddon Pete Date: 16 Jul 07 - 11:05 AM ...but allow me to remark....! |
|
Subject: RE: Choruses that give the game away From: goatfell Date: 16 Jul 07 - 11:46 AM do not forske me oh my darling (theme to High Noon) |
| Share Thread: |