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BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie...
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Subject: BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie... From: Bobert Date: 23 May 07 - 07:57 PM Well, we'd been in Page County less than a month when I was asked by a local nutso politican to perform at a fundraiser for him so... ...I said, "Okay" and went off to perform and during the night I met Charlie von Overman who was at the fundraiser... Charlie, now, wasn't yer typical kinda guy... He was, first of all, very big, very strong, very opinionated, very loud but he was a sculptor and afetr a few minutes of talking with him discovered that we had something in common: we both were grads of the Virginia Commonwelath University Art School and that kinda gave me a pass with him... Charlie wasn't the kinda guy that just anyone could warm up to or could come right up to and give a hug to but he let me into his inner space and we did some stuff together... I guess the biggest thing we did was a sculpure that I designed and have here right outside in my yard... It's large and industrial and made from two large and heavy pieces of 3/4 inch semi-cylindrical metal pieces that Cherlie helped me cut and weld... Charlie's studio was out in the sticks and was and still is the most interesting place I've ever been in... Charlie worked large... I mean, LARGE... Some of his metal scultures are in the 35 feet range... That's large... Last Friday I had a lunch meeting with my business partner at the Artisan Grill in Luray and afterwards we came down from the 2nd floor and there was Charlie at the bar and I, as per usual, gave him a big hug, introduced him to my business partner and even siad to him. "I love you, you old coot..." Well, Charlie killed himself yesterday... Yeah, I knew he owed the steel company $6000 over in Broadway... I knew that he'd been having some mefical things going on... I knew he was going thru some stuff but... ...gol danged... danged you, Charlie... Why didn't ya just dial the friggin' phone??? Okay, I understand that folks do this... This ain't my first time with a friend commiting suicide... I'm sure that most of yus have gone thru this at one time or another but tonight I am both... ...saddened and pissed... Danged you, Charlie... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie... From: tarheel Date: 23 May 07 - 08:03 PM so sad bobert! my heart goes out to you too! tar... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie... From: Little Hawk Date: 23 May 07 - 08:06 PM It happens more than you'd think...but it's always a great shock to those who are left behind, wondering "Why?". And as to why...well, you'd have to be the person who did it to know the whole deal on that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie... From: katlaughing Date: 23 May 07 - 08:31 PM {{{{{{Bobert}}}} I've been helping a best girlfriend through this, just the end of April. Her partner of three years, a very kind, gentle man who spent most of his life trying to keep his mother, siblings,ex-wife and child appeased, apparently had had enough and shot himself, despite the fact he was learning to stand up to them with encouragement from my friend and others. And, he was a totally non-violent man, didn't even own a gun until that day from what we know. Lots of anger, disbelief, regret, wondering what one could have done to prevent it, but ultimately there is nothing anyone can do if someone is determined and it's the ones who don't talk about it who go through with it, seemingly out of the blue. It's really good he heard kind words and had a hug from you, Bobert. Take care of yourself and your big ol' heart. luvyakat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie... From: SINSULL Date: 23 May 07 - 08:49 PM Bobert, I have dealt with suicides and near-suicides. My first reaction is pure anger at the selfishness of the act. Then I remember the worst days of my depression when I felt nothing - no emotions, no physical pain, nothing. Death seemed a beautiful trouble free sleep. I am sorry you have lost a friend. I am sorry he didn't reach out to you. Mary |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie... From: Amos Date: 23 May 07 - 08:51 PM Bobert, I am very sorry to hear this. Keep your chin up, and all your loves alive. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie... From: GUEST Date: 23 May 07 - 09:15 PM Had a brother-in-law commit suicide a few years ago. He was a darn nice guy, and the whole family are really good people. Feeling for you, Bobert. Dean. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie... From: EBarnacle Date: 23 May 07 - 09:25 PM First, it is not your fault. There is nothing you could have done. There were a few times I have gotten close but have brought myself out. It is one of the most personal decisions someone can make and it is not necessarily a sudden decision. Unless he was willing to share his pain or reach out for help he could not be helped. Someone who is determined to die cannot be stopped. If he can be stopped, he is looking for help. Ultimately, we are only responsible for our own actions. Hang in there. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie... From: Bobert Date: 23 May 07 - 09:39 PM Thanks to all... And thanks for the PM's... Charlie wasn't the esiest person to get to know, let alone to get inside his "personal space" He was a tough guy who built 5 ton sculptures... He had things in his studio that would smash big metal stuff into flatness... He was a black belt in some type of karate... He din't like people gettin' into his space but... ...he was a big challenge to me and I spent my 1st year knowing him trying to get into this big man's space... He half heartedly threatened to hurt me and it took all my courage to not let him see fear in me... He was a big, big man.... But for the last year I have always been the one person in this county who could walk up to him, put my arm aroud him without fear of him hurting me... I made that investment... He had to have known that even with my martial arts training that he could have hurt me bad if he wanted to but he let me come inside his space... I mean, I had a lot invested here... This wasn't just any bum on the street but one tough nut... He had no right to do this... He owed me, as well as many others, more... I'm sorry but I am really bummed but I'l swaer to all within earshot that Charlie ain't heard the last from me... No more, for now... What else can I say??? Oh yeah, one more thing... You son-of-a-bitch, Charlie... You wanta fight??? Bring it on, Big Guy... Sniff... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie... From: Sorcha Date: 23 May 07 - 09:56 PM Bobert, I've been there too. Our Brent, he adopted himself as our daughters Other Daddy. Diamond earrings for her 5th birthday, summer vacations, she was as much his daughter as ours. Killed himself for her 16th birthday. We are finally over the anger after 6 years. We'll never get over the sorrow. Love you, Bobert. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie... From: Rapparee Date: 23 May 07 - 10:21 PM Hey, Bobert. I been there with friends too. Thought for a while I'd lose a brother as well, but he managed to get it together. Stay cool. And remember that you got people who, for some reason, actually LIKE you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie... From: Mrrzy Date: 23 May 07 - 11:04 PM Aw, man, that bites. No use reassuring you that you couldn't have stopped him... you wouldn't believe us anyway. So sorry, and please don't feel too guilty. PM if you want to talk more. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie... From: Janie Date: 23 May 07 - 11:38 PM Oh man, Bobert! Holy crap! ((((((((((hug))))))))))) Janie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie... From: Ebbie Date: 24 May 07 - 12:36 AM {{{{{Bobert}}}} |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie... From: GUEST,dianavan Date: 24 May 07 - 02:49 AM Oh Bobert, that is so sad and it scares me. I have a friend going through a very rough spot in her life. I have urged medication, counselling and moving in to my suite. I don't know what else to do. It always feels like you should do more but what??? You can't make them happy, they have to do it themselves. I am so sad this happened. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie... From: gnu Date: 24 May 07 - 06:42 AM Milfred and I met at school at the age of ten and immediately became best buddies. At the age of 48, seemingly "on top of the world", he checked out. No warning. No explanation. The only way I can deal with it is to tell myself that he must have had his reasons and leave it at that. I know that ain't much help, but it's all I have to offer besides my sincerest sympathies. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie... From: wysiwyg Date: 24 May 07 - 07:15 AM (((((Bobert)))) Call me if you want to talk. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie... From: Bobert Date: 24 May 07 - 07:42 AM Thanks all... The P-Vine and I were just talking (yet agian) this morning about Charlie... He has lived with a wealthy woman for the last 26 years... She has bank rolled him during this time which has allowed him to sculpt... She also spends a lot of time overseas as is the case now... She isn't due back for a onth or so... I'm not even sure that anyone, other than Charlie, knows how to contact her... I'm going to do some serious sniffin' around today to see if someone has contacted her and to see if someone is watching over his studio... There are at least 50 pieces of his sculpture out there and I'd hate to see them disappear now that the Big Dog ain't 'round to chase folks off... Thanks agina for all your kind words and thoughts... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie... From: GUEST,kathy Date: 25 May 07 - 06:38 PM Bobert. I knew Charlie too. I don't know a lot about what happened, I was out of town and found out only today. But I do know it was about a lot more than a $6,000 bill. I'm trying to decide how I feel, but I'm not mad at him. He had a lot of problems. Emphysema bad enough to have to haul around the oxygen container from time to time. Diabetes. And a series of strokes that put him in the hospital just before he died. He's been saying for months that he didn't have long to live. His health was deteriorating rapidly and he lost a lot of weight just recently. Obviously more was going on in his body than most of us knew. Maybe the diabetes was worse than anyone thought. He reportedly checked himself out of the hospital, against doctors wishes, after his strokes. I think what happened was: he went home after his hospital escape, he fell, an ambulance came, he knew he was dying and was afraid that the ambulance was going to bring him back to the hospital. And that was that. So, I'm not mad. I might have done the same thing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie... From: Bobert Date: 25 May 07 - 08:12 PM Maybe, maybe not... Hey, given what he put into his relationship with "Bitch" Julie over the last several months he owed her abetter "good bye"... I was with her today and she, like me, was angry that he had done this... But that's not the issue... Sure, Charlie had medical problems but he wasn't on death's bed... He had productive years ahead of him... He had a lot of folks who loved him... I still do... Mwanwhile, I reckon it's down to the reality that he is gone and that it's my hope that his art doesn't get stolen so I've offered my farm as a place to stash it away while decisions ar4e made by his live-in and, hopefully, the people who loved Charlie will pull off some wake/benefit/event (???) that would make him proud... PM me if you have any ideas 'cause there's a numbet of folks talkin' about it and a number of ideas floating... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie... From: Sorcha Date: 25 May 07 - 09:22 PM Well, I've no ideas, but I'd really like to see some photos of his work. Get it documented then it will be more difficult to steal it later. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie... From: Charley Noble Date: 25 May 07 - 09:33 PM Bobert- Sad to hear that, and you describe your friend so well. It seems as if he wasn't the type to share whatever was getting to him, or you would have known. It's hard not to be haunted in a situation like that but without a clue it makes no sense, if that helps, to beat yourself up over his suicide. Charley noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie... From: Little Hawk Date: 25 May 07 - 11:21 PM You know, Bobert, I figure the one thing in this world a person truly owns is his or her own life. So I'm not that inclined to get angry at someone for deciding to take their life if and when they do. Yeah, it really hurts. Yeah, you really miss them. But it's their decision, and you have to figure that a person must have been in a really terrible amount of emotional pain to have come to that decision. It must have seemed unbearable. At least, that's how I see it. I don't get angry, I just feel sad that they were in so much pain. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 26 May 07 - 04:27 PM ...the one thing in this world a person truly owns is his or her own life. That sounds true, but I don't think it is. I don't think this thread is a place to argue that one out, but as the old saying goes "silence presumes consent". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie... From: LadyJean Date: 26 May 07 - 04:31 PM It is sheer hell to lose a friend, especially like that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie... From: Little Hawk Date: 26 May 07 - 05:00 PM Well, McGrath, who do you think owns your life? Somebody else? It's not a hostile question, I'm just wondering, that's all. And what do you mean when you say that silence presumes consent? Whose silence? If I knew someone was thinking of committing suicide, and I had a chance to talk to them first, I would try to talk them out of it....depending on the specific circumstances. I can imagine some hypothetical situations where I might not try to talk them out of it, but those would be in a few rather rare and specific cases...those being no-way-out situations where they had nothing to look forward to except greater and greater suffering. In such a case, I might not presume to advise them what to do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie... From: Bobert Date: 26 May 07 - 05:15 PM Well, okay, I understand the concept of owning one's life... I learned ity when I was in my 20's and the artist who taught me to draw took his life... He had terminal cancer and probably would have died within a matter of days or weeks... I understand that... But Charlie??? Nah... This was a guy who had years left... GHe was a guy who had ideas left... Art to be made... Art in the process... Just last Friday he told me to come by his studio this week and get a piece of metal that I had had my eye on... Plus, he had taken on an aprentice in "Bitch" Julie and the two of them were moving forward as he taught her the in's and out's of metal sculting... I think when someone makes commitments to others then if they want to get those cmommitments handled, write some lettersw, say some good byes than, yeah, fine, gone one with ya, Babe... But this wasn't the case... This was like Roberto Duran's "Na Mas'"... Just my thoughts... So, yeah, the overwhleming feeling I have is sadness but there is no denying that I am angry with Charlie as well... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 26 May 07 - 05:19 PM Once again - "I don't think this thread is a place to argue that one out." But I felt I needed to indicate I didn't agree with the comment - that was what "silence presumes consent" meant in this context. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie... From: Ebbie Date: 26 May 07 - 05:27 PM Little Hawk, yes and no. I think there are a number of situations when checking out is permitted, maybe even called for, and certainly not blame worthy. But years ago when I contemplated doing it, it occurred to me that my leaving in that way would be giving permission to do the same to youngsters around me. I don't know the stats of in-family suicides but my guess is that there is a definite correlation. That's a lot of responsibility. Bobert, Catherine Marshall was a writer and a thinker I liked. She was religious (her husband for a number of years was Senate Chaplain) but she had common sense. At one seminar, she was asked by an audience member: What about suicide? What happens to people who take their own life, people who were not called home by God? Marshall thought for a minute then said, gently, Well, I don't think God calls them, but I think he'll welcome them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie... From: Sorcha Date: 26 May 07 - 06:29 PM Well, I do think other people 'own' big chunks of our lives, but only if we 'allow' them to. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie... From: Bobert Date: 26 May 07 - 08:52 PM Glad that you din't do it, Ebbie, 'cause, sniff, then I wouldn't know you... That, in itself, would be a loss... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie... From: Ebbie Date: 26 May 07 - 08:55 PM {{{{Bobert}}} |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie... From: Little Hawk Date: 26 May 07 - 09:16 PM McGrath - Oh, I see. Understood. No problem. Ebbie - I think that was a very good response by Catherine Marshall. It is true that committing suicide can often play a part in influencing others to do so as well (specially within a family), so you have a good point there. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Suicide 'n danged you, Charlie... From: Alba Date: 27 May 07 - 10:51 AM Bobert (((hugs))) Love and Light, Jude |
