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Automatic Tuners...any good?
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Subject: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: kerryguy7 Date: 24 Mar 07 - 08:48 AM Here's another question from someone who is just learning guitar: How good are those "electronic tuners" that I keep hearing about? Currently I am using the old fashioned tune by the guitar method (ie. tuning the 6th string to the E of a piano, 5th string to the sixth, fourth to the fifth, etc) It seems like these electronic tuners would make tuning my guitar a whole lot easier BUT I don't know if tit is worth the investment. I figured that you old pros could give me some advice! Thanks and pardon such a "basic" question!! |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: Declan Date: 24 Mar 07 - 08:58 AM Tuners are useful in a lot of circumstances, and they work well. The newer clip-on type tuners (intelli, Intellitouch) are quite reliable and can help you tune in noisy surroundings - also back lit for use in dark places as pubs can sometimes be. BUT - you should learn to tune by ear as well. It's not only handy for when the batteries run out, developing your ear will stand to you as a musician. Also if you play in sessions you will find it isn't always in concert pitch. And even if you are in perfect tune, that's not much use if no-one else is. |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: deadfrett Date: 24 Mar 07 - 09:15 AM kerryguy Korg CA-30 works well and the batteries last over a year. I still keep tuning forks in the case, no batteries required. Cheers Dave |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: Les in Chorlton Date: 24 Mar 07 - 10:42 AM I bought an Intelli Chromatic tunerIMT-500 after checking with guitarist friends. It clips on and picks up the vibrations through the wood of the instrument not through the air. It has a green and black illuminated screen that shows the note and a needle to indicate how close to pitch you are. This means you can tune up in a noisy room. I have used it on guitars, accoustic bass, mandola and banjos. Best tuner I have ever had. |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: GUEST Date: 24 Mar 07 - 10:58 AM You can calibrate many clip on tuners to those instruments that are not in concert pitch. If you use an electronic tuner yes you should learn to tune your instrument by ear. Using a good quality electronic tuner will help you do just that. Heat and cold affect not only you instrument but also yourself and your tuning fork. Those fortunate people who have perfect pitch were not born with perfect pitch they acquired it. If the piano, for instance, they acquired if from was in concert pitch listening to it taught them concert pitch. If it was flat or sharp then they would not have perfect pitch. I did once watched an experiment on television that demonstrated the in and outs of perfect pitch. By placing someone with perfect pitch in a warm bath and asking them to sing a note that note became (I can't remember which sorry) ether sharp or my guess is flat. When in they were then cold bath the opposite effect was made to their perfect pitch. However interesting having a bath of ether hot or cold water on call to place some singers, who sing sharp or flat, into at singer rounds it is just a little impractical. Logic tells me that if you left your tuning fork on a radiator or near a fire it would send it out of tune. If a singer musician is nervous it will affect their ability to tune up or sing in a key that is in concert, as your body temperature tends to rise. I use and would recommend the intellitouch Tuner it was not cheap but well worth the money. The read out is easy to see and it changes its brightness in different light levels. I bought it at my favourite folk festival Whitby Folk Week so I know to change the batteries just before or during Whitby FF each year. I have used several different electronic tuners over the years this one has been the best so far. Do not be put off by musical snobs over the years more and more people are now using electronic tuners. The nut and the bridge of your Guitar that your strings run through will benefit from an application of Graphite (rub a pencil in the groove). If a string or all your string is difficult to tune they need stretching if new if they old then it's a good bet that one of them is about to break. Have fun and don't practice singing in the bath too much thinking your in tune. |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: Tyke Date: 24 Mar 07 - 11:02 AM Sorry the last post was from myself forgot to login. |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 24 Mar 07 - 11:26 AM Yes, get one. It's a far more accurate way to tune than the "tune by the guitar method". The main problem with that method is that, since each string is tuned to the corresponding note on the string below it, intonation problems can result in compounded inaccuracy. If the 4th string is tuned to the D note at the 5th fret on the 5th string, and that note is not true because the guitar has less than perfect intonation, the two strings aren't really in tune with each other. Then the G string tuned to the G at the 5th fret on the 4th string won't really be in tune either, etc. Learning to tune strictly by ear is definitely preferrable, but it takes a bit of ear training. I don't believe people naturally hear a 4th interval, upon which the basic tuning scheme of standard guitar tuning is based, as well as they hear a 5th interval, the interval upon which the tuning scheme of violin and mandolin family instruments is based. Tuning a 5th-tuned instrument is very intuitive. Just play the adjoining strings at the same time and the interval will "ring" if the strings are in tune with each other. A 4th interval doesn't have the same quality. It sounds a bit discordant and unharmonious, hence the reason why it's sometimes called "The Devil's Interval". |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 24 Mar 07 - 01:39 PM the best thing about it is that they cut out arguments in groups. back in the days of tuning forks and those little six note harmonica things - what tended to happen was that everybody had to tune to the biggest bully in the group. |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: GUEST,Scoville Date: 24 Mar 07 - 01:52 PM I like mine. The one I have doesn't allow for adjustment of pitch to tune to a specific instrument but it's great for getting everybody at least into ballpark range. You'll probably have to tweak the specific tunings on your strings a little bit but not much (assuming your instrument is set up OK). I can also tune by ear reasonably well. I think having the tuner actually helped me a bit with this since I could be more sure I was learning to tune to the right note rather than somebody else's alleged "A" or whatever. WLD is right; they do cut down on arguments. Everybody gets the same notes. Mine is fourteen years old and still works just fine, too. |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: Jim Lad Date: 24 Mar 07 - 03:36 PM Life Savers! Don't worry about your ears. They will evolve. Have fun with it. Jim |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: Jim Lad Date: 24 Mar 07 - 03:43 PM Just a wee point, to put tuners in perspective, kerryguy7.(if that's your real name) What do you suppose we all look at when we want to see how accurate our ears are?..... A chromatic tuner. I've never heard anyone say "My tuner's out". (probably will now, though) |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 24 Mar 07 - 06:03 PM Using an electronic tuner tends to make you more aware of accurate pitch. So when you are tuning without one you are less likely to get it wrong. When it comes to tuning without a tuner, rather than relying on "the old fashioned tune by the guitar method" on its own, it's best to check and adjust using harmonics and octaves. Electronic tuners are so cheap these days it's not worth not having one. |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: Jim Lad Date: 24 Mar 07 - 06:21 PM Electronic tuners are so cheap these days it's not worth not having one. I like that. |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: kerryguy7 Date: 24 Mar 07 - 06:50 PM Thanks folks! Sounds like one of these tuners is a good thing to use and to have on hand. I certainly appreciate the quick response to my question and to the advice offered! By the way, my name is Tom (kerryguy7). Peace |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: Jim Lad Date: 24 Mar 07 - 07:18 PM I knew that! |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: catspaw49 Date: 24 Mar 07 - 07:46 PM Also see THIS THREAD and the others at the top of it. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 24 Mar 07 - 08:06 PM Hi Tom, Try E-Bay for the Cherub Guitar Mate WST 550g tuner. Clips on to headstock, and is fully automatic. It tells you which string you are tuning, with a row of red lights. When the centre light turns green, your tuning is precise. It also has a switch which allows you to tune down one semitone, continental pitch, I suppose. Buy it now price is £6.50 + £1.50 P & P (UK) I have been using mine for two years, and it beats the £25 Intelli for accuracy and battery life. I wouldn't be without it. Hope this helps Don T. |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: GUEST,Scoville Date: 24 Mar 07 - 08:17 PM Of course, our mandolin guy always insisted his telephone dial tone was in A and we always used to tune to it. He would pick up the phone and hum the note and we'd all tune to him. Lord knows what not it really was. |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: Tyke Date: 25 Mar 07 - 06:59 AM So downloading some ring tones for your mobile phone that are just one constant note A or E or G or B or D etc. could be used to 1) teach perfect pitch 2) As a stand by when you have forgotten your tuner. 3) To remind you to turn your bleeping phone off phone off during a session. :-) |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: guitar Date: 25 Mar 07 - 07:06 AM I like them and they work for me, I just can't and i've tried to do it but I can't tune by ear, some people can and others like me can't so tuners are for me |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 25 Mar 07 - 07:14 AM if god had meant us to tune by ear, he would have made them work better. |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 25 Mar 07 - 08:14 AM 'ear! 'ear! |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: GUEST,Shimrod Date: 25 Mar 07 - 05:42 PM I'm not even confident that I sing in tune - but people tell me that I do so I don't worry about it too much. Tuning stringed instruments has always been a complete mystery to me; the sound that the string makes sounds nothing like the sound made by a pitch pipe or tuning fork, and which ever way I turn the peg it never sounds right. To me it's like being tied to a chair in a pitch black room and being asked to estimate the dimensions of the room ... Perhaps I should try one of these electronic thingys? |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: Singing Referee Date: 25 Mar 07 - 06:47 PM Cherub thingy looks quite good if you play in standard tuning and is cheap, but not much good if you play in anything else. I use an intellitouch which works well, but I've seen a smaller diamond shaped thing which I believe works on the same principle and is cheaper. |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: GUEST,Mally Date: 25 Mar 07 - 07:20 PM I have one of the little Intelli 'diamond-shaped' (deceptively it's actually square) tuners, and since I took up performing live just over a year ago I find it indispensible. Although I can and do tune my guitar long-hand (for want of a better expression), occasionally my brain gets swamped during a tuning session and I can no longer find the note despite the fact that I'm generally very good with pitch. Having that happen onstage would be embarrassing, but also there's no way I want to be plugging my ear to the body of the guitar trying to tune it by ear when someone else is playing. With the tuner, I can tune up with confidence in almost total silence - only the gentlest pluck is needed, and the whole thing can be done visually. One advantage of the cheap model that I have is that it appears to be happy to make a best guess and instead of the needles flickering here there and everywhere as with some tuners, it just settles down really quickly and only changes if you make perceptible changes to the tuning. Whether that would be a disadvantage to some who might want more detail in what's happening in the tuning I don't know, but it makes getting a decent-sounding working tuning a lot quicker for me at least. It recognises any note too, so it's good for tuning with capos in place. One minor observation: you need to find a good spot to clip it on the guitar otherwise it might struggle to pick up the bottom E. Mally |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: GUEST,Greycap Date: 25 Mar 07 - 07:20 PM I'd go with Lesinchorlton - Intellis are great, small, workable, even usable last night by a French lady with a full size harp in a ceilidh band( I lent her mine)and everyone in my area uses and swears by them - they are about £14.99 and worth every penny. |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: mandotim Date: 26 Mar 07 - 03:56 AM Scoville; never trust the mandolin guy on matters tuning! Everyone knows that 'mandolin' is Old Italian for 'out of tune'! Agree with the comments about intelli tuners; I had a very early Intellitouch tuner, but I don't use it anymore;I have one of the confusingly named intellis, which are smaller, lighter and much, much cheaper. Tim 'Mandolin players spend half their time tuning up, and the rest of the time playing out of tune'. |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: Scoville Date: 26 Mar 07 - 09:12 AM Well, at least we were all out of tune together, I suppose. |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: kerryguy7 Date: 26 Mar 07 - 10:08 AM When the famous US Civil War General Ulysses S. Grant was asked if he knew any tunes he answered: I only know two. One is Yankee Doodle... and the other one isn't! Now...there was someone who really could have used an electronic tuner!! :) |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: guitar Date: 26 Mar 07 - 11:30 AM if it sound like it is tune then who cares it close enough for folk/jazz |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: Big Mick Date: 26 Mar 07 - 12:05 PM Tom, sorry I got to this one late. The short answer is, you bet they are good. And I believe they are very necessary for new players. They help you get in tune from the jump, and your ears soon begin to "see" the correct tuning. And when you are playing with others, a critical part of learning, you do so in tune from the start. Tom, the new tuners are the Intellitouch tuners. I have had one for 6 or 7 years now. I am completely satisfied with their performance, and the service on these units is first rate. The knuckle on them eventually wears out. Send it back to them and they will repair free of charge with the exception of shipping. I use three different tuners, depending on where I am and what the conditions are. Onstage with my band (The Conklin Ceili Band)I use the Boss TU-2 stomp tuner. I have one set up for my bouzouki, and one for the trusty old Larrivee. When I am playing solo acoustic, or in a session setting, I use my Intellitouch PT1. This is my workhorse tuner. At home, I also have a Boss TU-12H, which I use when I am in a quiet environment. I also use this one when I am tuning my Uilleann pipes as it has a needle monitor. If I had to pick just one, it would be the Intellitouch. It is easy to use, and works in noisy environments. Once in a while, when a bass player is noodling at very high decibel rates, it will affect the Intellitouch, but that is rare. All the best, Mick |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: kerryguy7 Date: 26 Mar 07 - 12:47 PM Thanks Mick! I'll check them out! Best to you!! Tom |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser) Date: 26 Mar 07 - 12:55 PM Little known fact. In the years before Europeans arrived in Polynesia the natives used play a stringed instrument fashioned from the body of a sea turtle with a neck made from the upper reaches of a palm tree and strung with fish intestines. It was tuned by catching a (sadly now-extinct) relative of the herring similar in shape to the alewife so beloved of residents of the US great lakes region. The difference was that this particular species sported large, bony scales across its abdomen. When the fish was landed and placed in the open air these scales would vibrate at a constant 440 hz, providing, of course, a perfect concert A. They called it the tuner fish.... |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: Jim Lad Date: 26 Mar 07 - 01:50 PM Then there's the Hoop Snake. (also extinct) Had an awful habit of swallowing their own tails. Cheers Jim |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: catspaw49 Date: 26 Mar 07 - 03:35 PM Tom, the variant here on Grant's famous line is that Accordion Players only know two tunes......One is "Lady of Spain" and the other isn't. Welcome to the 'Cat. If you go nuts around here, it's natural and we jointly (with the CIA) have free access to an excellent treatment facilty, the NYCFTTS in Montana. Nose Flute is the instrument of choice there and a remarkable aid in healing. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: Fidjit Date: 26 Mar 07 - 05:51 PM The Intelli is the right size to fall into a glass of beer. Happened to me. They sent me a new one though a bit cheaper. They said I wasn't the first. Chas |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: Les from Hull Date: 26 Mar 07 - 06:05 PM The Intellitouch type are a blessing in a number of ways if you play with other people. You can tune up in a noisy session without disturbing others, in poor lighting if backlit. And everyone tunes to a standard. If you tune one string to another you still need to get the first string right. They might be cheaper through the Internet than at your local music shop. |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: PoppaGator Date: 26 Mar 07 - 06:08 PM I resisted buying an electronic tuner for many years. Now I'm glad to have one. Years ago, I was playing long hours every day, and gradually got better and better at tuning by ear, until it was almost automatic, and consistently near-perfect. After a long period of playing less often and less constantly, my ability to tune up suffered proportionally. Starting up again several years back, I gradually got better at tuning the old-fashioned way, but still, some days are better than others for tuning "by ear," and even for trying to match the tone of a pitchpipe. The electronic gizmo makes it all so much quicker and easier. There's no ambiguity, and even if your ears are playing tricks on you, you can't go wrong referring to the foolproof visual readout. Most importantly, you are forced to be absolutely accurate, not just "close enough" ~ and of course, you're ABLE to be absolultey accurate... |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: GUEST,ib48 Date: 27 Mar 07 - 03:44 PM Ihave got very good natural pitch,but a tuner saves the audiance from the racket of tuning up.It is an essential part of my kit. |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: kerryguy7 Date: 27 Mar 07 - 04:01 PM From everything I'm hearing electronic tuners seem to be more than a worthwhile investment. Thanks once again to all of you for the advice and for your opinions. It's good to have a bunch of seasoned pros around to "bounce" these questions of off. Keep on keepin on as they say... |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: GUEST,Greycap Date: 27 Mar 07 - 07:39 PM I'm tickled that our opinions and experience have been of help. I think that's what Mudcat is all about. |
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Subject: RE: Automatic Tuners...any good? From: Jim Lad Date: 27 Mar 07 - 09:39 PM "The Intelli is the right size to fall into a glass of beer. Happened to me. They sent me a new one though a bit cheaper." A new Beer? |
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