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'As I walk'd forth' - which song family?
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'As I walk'd forth' - which song family? |
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Subject: 'As I walk'd forth' - which song family? From: Stower Date: 12 Feb 07 - 09:42 AM 'As I walk'd forth' is a lute song apparently by Robert Johnson (c.1583–before 1633). In common with some traditional songs, it first appeared in a play by Francis Beaumont and John Fletcher: The Captain, c.1612. It was later printed in John Playford's Select Musical Ayres and Dialogues (1652-59); in Treasury of Music (1669); in Thomas Durfey's Wit and Mirth; and later in other collections. Here's the point: it sounds very much to me like a traditional song. It seems possible that this was either an arrangement by Robert Johnson of a traditional song, or perhaps written in the traditional style. If an arrangement, it would still bear his name as, in the Renaissance and Baroque periods, there was no distinction between the author of an original work and the arranger of an existing work. So my question is: could Mudcatters identify a traditional song that is very much like this one in terms of theme - a few verses of female self-pity in a beautiful environment - or particular phrases? If you can identify other songs in this 'family' I'd be grateful if you could include words or a link to words. Cheers. Here's 'As I walk'd forth'. You can find the tune here As I walk'd forth one summer's day To view the meadows green and gay A pleasant bower I espied Standing fast by the river side, And in't a maiden I heard cry, Alas! alas! there's none e'er loved as I. Then round the meadow did she walk, Catching each flower by the stalk; Such flow'rs as in the meadow grew, The Dead Man's Thumb, and herb all blue; And as she pull'd them still cried she, Alas! alas! there's none e'er loved like me. The flowers of the sweetest scents She bound about with knotty bents, And as she bound them up in bands She wept, she sigh'd, she wrung her hands; Alas! alas! alas! cried she, Alas! alas! there's none e'er loved like me. When she had fill'd her apron full Of such green things as she could cull, The green things served her for her bed, The flow'rs were the pillows for her head. Then down she laid her, ne'er more did speak, Alas! alas! with love her heart did break. |
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Subject: RE: 'As I walk'd forth' - which song family? From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 12 Feb 07 - 10:29 AM I could, but the crack about self pity turned me off. Do it yourself. Apparently being named "Ian" you are male and have never had to worry about having your reputation shredded or being pregnant and abandoned. |
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Subject: RE: 'As I walk'd forth' - which song family? From: The Borchester Echo Date: 12 Feb 07 - 10:36 AM Quite. I could too. But won't for the same reasons cited by Jeeneia. |
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Subject: RE: 'As I walk'd forth' - which song family? From: Stower Date: 12 Feb 07 - 11:36 AM Leeneia and Countess: I'm sorry you feel that way and can now see that an innocent comment could be misunderstood. It was not in any way intended to be a "crack". She is a one-dimensional and made-up character in a song, which is what I intended to convey, I suppose. So here's the backdrop to my comment: "female" because the person in the song is female. "Self-pity" because the song tells us at length that she's picking flowers, wringing her hands and saying, in effect, 'woe is me', without giving us any context or reason why. In this way it reminds me slightly of some histrionic 19th century songs. Yes, I know that the life of the average woman in Renaissance (coming in 1612 into Baroque) England could be harsh, that she may have had good reason etc etc. I think maybe the problem you perceive is in my putting "female" and "self-pity" next to each other. No real or implied sexism was intended. I certainly did not say nor intend to suggest that this woman stands for all women who are all full of self-pity, for goodness sake (if that's what you are implying). If you actually knew me and the battles I have fought you would know that. But you do not and have still judged me based on two words, misunderstood. Geeeeeeeez, I really didn't expect to give all this explanation for an innocent comment. No offence was intended, though it seems one was taken. I am genuinely sorry for that. Now can we get back to the song? |
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Subject: RE: 'As I walk'd forth' - which song family? From: GUEST,Lazlo Date: 12 Feb 07 - 11:37 AM The Copper Family Banks of the Sweet Primroses http://www.thecopperfamily.com/songs/coppersongs/banks.html Laz |
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Subject: RE: 'As I walk'd forth' - which song family? From: Stower Date: 12 Feb 07 - 11:48 AM Thanks, Lazlo. (Are Lazlo as in Lazlo's Diary?) Leenia, still thinking after the last post I made: "you are male and have never had to worry about having your reputation shredded or being pregnant and abandoned." This is partly true. I have had to worry about having my reputation shredded, but I am not going to discuss such personal things here. The song does not say, suggest or imply shredded reputation, pregnancy or abandonment for the fictional character in the song. If it did, I would not have made the comment you took offence at. |
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Subject: RE: 'As I walk'd forth' - which song family? From: The Borchester Echo Date: 12 Feb 07 - 11:50 AM Apart from the fact that the opning lines of The Sweet Primroses bear some similarity, there is precious little connection between the two. The former ends, unusually, happily in a 'sunshiney day'. The ditty on question has far more in common with those about sprigs of thyme and rue. Like life really, with men the arbiter of moral values. |
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Subject: RE: 'As I walk'd forth' - which song family? From: The Borchester Echo Date: 12 Feb 07 - 11:57 AM shredded reputation, pregnancy or abandonment This is EXACTLY the explicit theme of several floating verse songs in this category, e.g. When Fishes Fly (No, My Love Not I) which is a highly unsentimental Victorian take on what happened to women who stepped outside the strict moral bounds of society: WHEN FISHES FLY (NO, MY LOVE, NOT I) As I roved out one morning it was in the month of May Oh there I spied a fair young maid a-gathering of sweet may I asked of her to bed with me - I'd marry her by and by But the answer that she gave me was: O no my love,not I CHORUS: When fishes fly and swallows die - young men will prove true There's a herb in my father's garden and some do call it rue So we walked and we talked together til at length we did agree To sit down on a mossy bank beneath the shady trees The blackbirds and the sweet song thrush flew in and out the bush and the song they sang in chorus was O no my love,not I. Now twenty weeks being over,she grew thick around the waist This poor girl she grew pale and wan, her stays they would not lace Her gown it would not pin my boys her apron strings won't tie and she rued the day she said to him No my love,not I So she wrote a letter to her true love to come immediately. The answer he that sent to her was No my love not I Supposing I should come to you, on me they'd put the blame My parents would be angry and friends would me disdain And all the very best thing I can advise you for to do Go take your baby on your back - begging you should go And when that you grow weary you can sit you down and cry And think on the day you said to me: No my love, not I |
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Subject: RE: 'As I walk'd forth' - which song family? From: Stower Date: 12 Feb 07 - 02:28 PM Countess Richard, I agree that 'The Sweet Primroses' isn't really part of the 'As I walk'd forth' family. Now this may be me being thick, but I can't spot any floating verses or even floating lines in 'As I walk'd forth', though the opening lines, "As I walk'd forth one summer's day / To view the meadows green and gay" comes pretty close. I think what I have in the back of my mind for the family is a song in which an observer watches and the observations appear in the song, but nothing much happens, perhaps in a pretty landscape. I think 'The Willow Song' (a.k.a. 'Willow Willow') falls into this category, which to my eyes and ears is pretty much the same song thematically as 'As I walk'd forth', though it is a man wrapped in self-pity over lost love this time. (The earliest copy of this song is in a lute book dated 1583 - British Library MS Add. 15117). Perhaps I should clarify self-pity: I mean when someone sees their experience, not as a part of the whole of all human experience, but something which the whole world should stop and take note of because no one has ever felt that that before and no one else could possibly understand. It is self-imposed isolation. Self-pity is not about what happens to someone - it is a particular personal response to what happens, a particular mode of experiencing life, such as "No one has ever suffered like me", or "No one will ever understand what I have been through", or, in 'As I walk'd forth', "Alas! alas! there's none e'er loved like me". Another example, but this time with an actual story rather than just a series of picturesque verses, is 'Blackbirds and Thrushes' (not to be confused with the traditional song of the same title in the 'Hares on the Mountain' family of songs). The tune for this is the same as 'The Unfortunate Lass', part of the family songs about contracting venereal disease. It also shares some of the same words, so it seems reasonable to assume that one song grew from the other. Still, this is certainly not a venereal song. No self-pity here but genuine forboding and tragedy; and the garden, the observer and the breaking heart are, I think, reminiscent of 'As I walk'd forth': As I was a-walking for my recreation A-down by the gardens I silently strayed I heard a fair maid making great lamentation Crying, 'Jimmy will be slain in the wars I'm afraid The blackbirds and thrushes sang in the green bushes The wood doves and larks seemed to mourn for this maid And the song that she sang was concerning her lover 'O Jimmy will be slain in the wars I'm afraid Her cheeks blushed like roses, her arms full of posies She strayed in the meadows and, weeping, she said 'My heart it is aching, my poor heart is breaking For Jimmy will be slain in the wars I'm afraid When Jimmy returned with his heart full of burning He found his dear Nancy all dead in her grave He cried, 'I'm forsaken, my poor heart is breaking, O would that I never had left this fair maid |
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