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BS: Where's the effort to rebuild Iraq?
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BS: Where's the effort to rebuild Iraq? |
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Subject: BS: Where's the effort to rebuild Iraq? From: dianavan Date: 31 Jan 07 - 11:19 AM I keep thinking that if the U.S. used more money to help re-build using Iraqi labour, there would be more good will and less "insurgency." From the BBC - "Since 2003, the way reconstruction aid is used has changed, with money originally destined for infrastructure programmes cut and more spent on areas like security and democracy projects. Electricity output remains below pre-war levels, while funds initially earmarked for water and sewerage have been cut by 50%, the audit says." I also wonder what a "democracy project" might be. Any ideas? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the effort to rebuild Iraq? From: TIA Date: 31 Jan 07 - 11:44 AM Reconstruction? Reconstruction can only begin when the war ends. War still on, therefore no reconstruction. The efforts that are made are completely derailed by: 1) Monstrous costs for security 2) Sabotage 3) Rampant corruption of Iraqi officials 4) Rampant fraud by US Contractors 5) Staffing of US government offices by inexperienced, often ridiculously young, former Bush campaign workers. 6) 7) 8) . . . . It's a "predictable, and predicted" f'ing mess. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the effort to rebuild Iraq? From: Peace Date: 31 Jan 07 - 11:46 AM When Halliburton can make a buck Iraq will be rebuilt. And not ONE damned minute before that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the effort to rebuild Iraq? From: Teribus Date: 31 Jan 07 - 12:09 PM Try looking here: http://www.rebuilding-iraq.net/pls/portal/docs/PAGE/PCO_CONTENT/HOME/DOWNLOADS/RECONSTRUCTION_UPDATE.PDF Page 7 all in green completed |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the effort to rebuild Iraq? From: Captain Ginger Date: 31 Jan 07 - 12:24 PM Terry, my love, have you lost all sense or irony? Look at the home page of the site hosting that document. It's an enterprise run by the US federal government, and only approved contractors may register. Are you really so uncritical, poppet? I presume the success in rebuilding the infrastructure of Iraq means that the queues for fuel oil are mere propaganda, and that people get their power from generators as a matter of choice. Mains electricity is so passe, eh dearie? However, the site to which you direct us does proudly boast that as of January 26, Baghdad enjoys four and a half hours of mains power a day. Gosh; thanks Uncle Sam! What was the amount pre war, Terry? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the effort to rebuild Iraq? From: GUEST,Crazyhorse Date: 31 Jan 07 - 02:00 PM For once I can agree, where is all the effort. Where's the effort from the EU. The invasion is over, if people really care for the iraqis they should stop shouting like kids in a playground and get on with it. Same goes for Afganistan. You're not going to brush away 30 years of a fascist state in a couple of months. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the effort to rebuild Iraq? From: artbrooks Date: 31 Jan 07 - 02:08 PM Not that I have any great fondness for the current morass in Iraq, but one of the problems is that reconstruction projects are regular targets of various "insurgent" groups. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the effort to rebuild Iraq? From: GUEST,Crazyhorse Date: 31 Jan 07 - 02:17 PM Well maybe the French and the Russians, who were by far the biggest supporters of Saddam, including arm sales, should chip in with a bit of cash and a few resources. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the effort to rebuild Iraq? From: GUEST, heric Date: 31 Jan 07 - 02:35 PM Must agree with the list generated by TIA, above. However, I also note that some syndicated columnist recently wrote, on the specific topic of "using Iraqi labour," that beheading, torturing, and bombing are not typical activities indicative of unemployment ennui. In other words, creating more efficient employment agencies will not be an instant cure-all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the effort to rebuild Iraq? From: dianavan Date: 31 Jan 07 - 03:53 PM artbrooks - Are you sure its not just pipeline reconstruction the insurgents are targetting? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the effort to rebuild Iraq? From: TIA Date: 31 Jan 07 - 05:04 PM They have struck electric plants and distribution lines as well. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the effort to rebuild Iraq? From: GUEST,282RA Date: 31 Jan 07 - 05:08 PM WASHINGTON - The U.S. government wasted tens of millions of dollars in Iraq reconstruction aid, including scores of unaccounted-for weapons and a never-used camp for housing police trainers with an Olympic-size swimming pool, investigators say. The quarterly audit by Stuart Bowen Jr., the special inspector general for Iraq reconstruction, is the latest to paint a grim picture of waste, fraud and frustration in an Iraq war and reconstruction effort that has cost taxpayers more than $300 billion and left the region near civil war. "The security situation in Iraq continues to deteriorate, hindering progress in all reconstruction sectors and threatening the overall reconstruction effort," according to the 579-page report, which was being released Wednesday. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the effort to rebuild Iraq? From: GUEST,282RA Date: 31 Jan 07 - 05:09 PM Sorry, tried to make a blue clicky for the link and it refuses to allow me to paste it in and I'm too lazy to hunt down the full article. It's on MSN, you can look for it yourselves. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the effort to rebuild Iraq? From: Teribus Date: 31 Jan 07 - 05:15 PM Well then Captain, as I assume that you are a big boy, you can go to page one of that iraq Reconstruction Report, go to international directory enquiries and get the telephone number of the Hospital that has just been opened in Najaf. Give them a call if you get an answer, and they tell you that they have just opened, then it ain't propaganda, is it? But well done Cap'n at least you took the trouble to look as opposed to the other fat hens that just ran around and clucked. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the effort to rebuild Iraq? From: Captain Ginger Date: 31 Jan 07 - 05:46 PM Terry, it reminds me of the upending of the old proverb about the man getting one ear of wheat to grow where 10 grew before. A hospital in Najaf. Topping! How many hospitals have been destroyed, and how many trained medical staff have left Iraq? I know it benefits the UK, as many of them have come here, but I do think it would be better for Iraq if they felt secure enough to worked there. And I do think the stats on power generation are rather telling. I recall the US military denying it had ever tried to interdict the Iraqi power system, until someone pointed out the tens of thousands of carbon fibre skeins dropped from aircraft across the power lines - and in the ensuing chaos nearly every tonne of copper in the system was looted. As Saddam wasn't flying any aircraft, it was a bit of a mystery! After all, the coalition powers would never be anything other than truthful, would they? Still, it's nice to know that, with trillions spent on wrecking the place, we're spending a few millions on patching up a small proportion of it (while lining the pockets of an awful lot of US companies). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the effort to rebuild Iraq? From: Teribus Date: 01 Feb 07 - 01:54 AM A yes Cap'n, but that was only one of the many little green dots wasn't it? But there again Cap'n, good news doesn't tend to get reported. Now I know that you believe for some reason that every other country, all NGO's, Aid Agencies and International Institutions are all fiscally responsible and manage all their affairs perfectly, but that does not happen to represent the real picture does it? The EU alone wastes billions every year (and has done ever since its inception), as do most if not all national governments. What was that old statistic regarding Oxfam? Out of every pound donated, how much actually went to the cause it was donated to? IIRC it was about 1 pence wasn't it Cap'n? Now you tell us all why, running completely counter to the norm, the US in Iraq should attain perfection, but not at home. As to the US military denial. Look up the meaning of the word interdict Cap'n. And not wishing to point out the obvious, carbon fibres may have caused outage, which removal of said carbon fibres would have restored. What caused the long term damage was the looting, now was that because all the looters were working for the US armed forces? Remember all those "Human Shield" folk Cap'n? All those brave souls who strapped themselves to power stations, water treatment plants, etc? How many of those were killed in this massive "Shock and Awe" campaign that was supposed to have taken place? - None. How many of those power stations and water treatment plants were attacked? - None. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the effort to rebuild Iraq? From: Barry Finn Date: 01 Feb 07 - 02:29 AM & the water's missing. Barry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the effort to rebuild Iraq? From: Barry Finn Date: 01 Feb 07 - 02:31 AM the missing 1 billion in oil revenues has been found, it's in the pool, they replaced the stolen water. Barry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the effort to rebuild Iraq? From: Barry Finn Date: 01 Feb 07 - 02:34 AM Rebuilding Iraq = installing a new super US Embassy (with swimming pool) Barry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the effort to rebuild Iraq? From: Barry Finn Date: 01 Feb 07 - 02:35 AM minus the water Barry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the effort to rebuild Iraq? From: Teribus Date: 01 Feb 07 - 03:23 AM On the subject of water Barry: "Water and Sanitation USAID has rehabilitated sewage treatment plants, expanding access to sewage treatment to over 5.1 million urban Iraqis, processing 315.3 million gallons daily. Over 2.3 million Iraqis who had no clean drinking water in 2002 now have access to safe, potable water following USAID efforts to refurbish and expand 19 water treatment plants in five cities. By 2006, water treatment service will be provided to an additional 600,000 Iraqis. Providing clean water and efficient sewage treatment has greatly improved sanitation and contributed to a decrease in waterborne disease. USAID is also providing plant-level operations and maintenance (O&M) training at major water and wastewater plants nationwide to ensure that these plants remain functioning. In addition, USAID's rural water program will install over 70 small water treatment systems in rural communities of less than 5,000 people. As of May 2006, 51 sites have been completed with the rest coming online by August. Countrywide, the rural water program will help to supply clean water to almost 500,000 villagers each day." "Restoring Essential Services In 2003, Iraq's 140 major water treatment facilities were operating at about 35 percent of their design capacity (3 billion liters a day) due to inadequate maintenance, lack of plant operators, power shortages, and looting. USAID is helping improve the efficiency and reliability of existing treatment facilities, and is constructing several new facilities, especially in the south where water quality is particularly poor. Iraq has 13 major wastewater treatment facilities, operating at about a quarter of their design capacity. Baghdad's three sewage plants, comprising three quarters of the nation's total sewage treatment capacity, were not treating waste for more than six years before the conflict, allowing raw waste to flow into the Tigris River. In the rest of the country, most wastewater treatment facilities were only partly operational before the conflict, and a shortage of electricity, parts, and trained staff exacerbated the situation." "ACCOMPLISHMENTS Nationwide: Restored or provided new water treatment to over 2.3 million Iraqis and sewage treatment to over 5.1 million. Baghdad: Expanded Sharq Dijlah water plant by 50 MGD and rehabilitated three sewage plants, which serve 80 percent of Baghdad's population, thus eliminating dumping raw sewage into the Tigris. Kerkh wastewater treatment plant (WTP) began operating on May 19, 2004, the first major Iraqi plant to operate at full capacity in more than 12 years. Standby generators have been procured and installed at 27 Baghdad water facilities, ensuring continued supply of treated water in the event of power outages. Refurbished existing sewage lines and pump stations serving the Kadhamiya area of western Baghdad. South: Rehabilitated the Sweet Water Canal system: repairing breaches, cleaning and repairing the main water storage and settling reservoir and refurbishing 14 water treatment plants around Basrah city. Treated water production increased by over 100 percent, serving over 1.1 million additional people. South Central: Rehabilitated two water plants and four sewage plants. Najaf, Diwaniyah, Hillah, and Karbala sewage plants serve nearly 1 million people. Water treatment plants in Najaf and Karbala serve more than 375,000 residents and pilgrims near one of Iraq's holiest shrines. North: Provided major equipment for Mosul Water and Sewer Directorates. Refurbished the Kirkuk WTP." Again related to water Barry and what is missing: "Marshlands Since 2003, USAID has helped restore Iraq's marshlands and develop the local economy. Reflooding as much as 25 to 30 percent of the original marshlands has been directed by local tribes and MWR. USAID-funded activities include national level as well as local marshland level activities. From 1991 to 2003, the Ba'athist regime nearly destroyed the Mesopotamian Marshlands, one of the largest wetland systems in the world. Massive drainage structures diverted water from 8,000 square miles of marshes. The drainage targeted the unique, 5,000-year-old Marsh Arab society, seen as disloyal and unmanageable after the Shi'a insurrection of 1991. The Ba'athists raided settlements, killed tens of thousands, burned houses, and killed livestock. Already some of the poorest people in Iraq, the Marsh Arabs were exiled or internally displaced. Many escaped to cities, but the fewer than 100,000 that remained were forced to relocate, some as many as 18 times. Currently, water supply is diminishing due to dam construction and expanding irrigation schemes in the Tigris and Euphrates headwaters in Turkey and Syria. Restoration of the Mesopotamian Marshlands at the confluence of the Tigris and Euphrates in southeastern Iraq carries political, cultural, and economic significance beyond the ecology of the wetland areas. Evidence of the atrocities committed against the marsh dwellers is still apparent. As a consequence of the drainage and destruction, the largely displaced and widely persecuted marsh dwellers still suffer from economic loss, inadequate nutritional intake, and absence of primary health care and acceptable drinking water. In February 2004, an Iraqi and international team, mobilized by USAID's prime contractor, convened in Basra to design an action plan for the Marshlands Restoration Program. The program, led by the Ministry of Water Resources (MOWR) in cooperation with USAID and other donors, will restore the marshland ecosystem through improved management and strategic re-flooding in addition to providing social and economic assistance to Marsh Arabs including health, education, and rural development." "ACCOMPLISHMENTS Development of Hydrologic Model of Tigris and Euphrates River Basins. A reservoir simulation model for water allocation and flood control was completed by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers/ Hydrologic Engineering Center where MOWR engineers were trained and can train others in turn. Trainings have also been conducted on stream gauging equipment. Equipping Ministry of Water Resources Soil and Water Laboratory. Soil testing and water quality equipment is being installed; staff will receive training on operating the equipment. Monitoring and Development of an Integrated Marsh Management Plan. Rehabilitated the University of Basra laboratory, which monitors four marsh locations and collects data. Livestock Improvement. Established 30 alfalfa farms in the marshes to provide livestock feed. Established a veterinary service and supply of medicine to treat livestock diseases in marsh settlements. Surveyed animal diseases and treated more than 14,000 animals. Agriculture Development. Established 72 demonstration farms in the marshes, introducing new crops and improved management practices for sorghum, wheat, barley, and broad beans. Established eight date palm nurseries with 4,500 trees with a 90 percent survival rate. Fish Restocking. Rehabilitated the Marine Science Center hatchery facilities. Currently breeding high value fish (bunni) to produce native species for release into the marshes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the effort to rebuild Iraq? From: Captain Ginger Date: 01 Feb 07 - 04:59 AM And, while you're Googling away like a good little stoker, Terry, could you also tell us how many hours per day of mains power the Iraqis had in 2002 and how many now? And how many functioning hospitals they had in 2002 and how many now? And how many water treatment plants were functioning in 2002 and how many now? It's easy to look at the Iraqi infrastructure post-conflict and say "Look, we've made it better!" but it's more instructive to look at it pre-conflict (And remember, Terry love, that nearly all the infrastructure had been in decline since 1991 - and it was still better than it is now with those millions of dollars spent). No-one denies that money is being spent but much of it seems to be being siphoned off by corrupt individuals and organisations or simply wasted. And if we hadn't invaded the country in the first place and broken half the toys in the nursery we wouldn't have to replace them. You glibly say of the electricity situation "Oh, that was looting..." Do you imagine there would have been looting if there had been no air raids (raids the US flatly denied). And restoring a power system is not like picking off the decorations from a Christmas tree, poppet. When HT lines have arced and shorted they need to be replaced - hundreds of kilometres of them - to say nothing of concommitant damage to hundreds of substations and neighbourhood transformer points. You may be a first-rate forecourt attendant, Terry, but with your knowledge of the power industry I'd be wary of asking you to change a lightbulb. But, of course, you are more concerned with the broad sweep of propaganda than with annoying, untidy and messy reality, aren't you Terry. And a cut'n'paste of a six-month-old USAID "rah-rah, aren't we doing swell" report is really going to give us an objective picture, isn't it, dearie? More so than a report out yesterday from an all-party congressional investigations team. *Tsk* is gullibililty really measured in tars |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the effort to rebuild Iraq? From: Teribus Date: 01 Feb 07 - 08:07 AM Didn't find the dictionary to look up that there word then Cap'n?? One thing I did remember from my stokerin' Cap'n was, Gent said that outside of Baghdad, or wherever that thar Saddam Hussein chap was at any given time, the 'lectric was only on for some 3 - 6 hours a day, but that only depended if them people was bein' good in accordance with the dictat of that Hussein fella' Not like us on the "Black Pig" Cap'n, why under your command us lads can have 'lectric any time we wants - God Bless y' Cap'n. Seein' as how y've asked so nice like Cap'n, I'll look up the rest of that stuff - might even get the meanin'of that word for you - then y'll find out that those nice Yankee lads weren't lyin' after all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the effort to rebuild Iraq? From: dianavan Date: 01 Feb 07 - 05:34 PM Just found this in Rueters, "Since 2003, US officials shifted their priorities several times on how to use the reconstruction aid. They have spent more on implementing security programmes, supporting elections and developing an Iraqi government, than on reconstruction, according to the report." http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/IRIN/848cffd0d4d0d66de754cc536dcd83c6.htm |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the effort to rebuild Iraq? From: Big Phil Date: 01 Feb 07 - 11:06 PM Just admit it guys, we have @u@ked up big style......... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the effort to rebuild Iraq? From: Barry Finn Date: 01 Feb 07 - 11:47 PM It's ashame that we've spent so much putting the place back together again that the kids for the next couple of generations will be reciting nursery rhymes about where all the money didn't go before the civil war tore it all back down again. Will pay twice for nothing before this is over. Hell-a-burping can't hardly swallow with all the bucks & contracts that we'll be shoveling down their throats. Barry |
