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Anyone still collecting in Ireland?
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Subject: Anyone still collecting in Ireland? From: GUEST Date: 05 Aug 06 - 02:27 PM There must still be a host of uncollected songs and unrecorded traditional singers in Ireland. Is anyone still active in the field? |
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Subject: RE: Anyone still collecting in Ireland? From: Folkiedave Date: 05 Aug 06 - 02:39 PM As far as I am aware Tom Munnelly is. (It can also be spelt with 1 "n" so Google for both). Last I heard he was due to speak at Cecil Sharp House on September 2nd as part of the Tradsong Meeting along with Jim Carroll - contributor on here, and Pat Mackenzie) Again as far as I know he was the only person still paid for collecting anywhere in the British Isles. There are of course probably dozens of amateurs I would suspect. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone still collecting in Ireland? From: GUEST Date: 05 Aug 06 - 03:12 PM Not many, Tom MUNNELLY is still collecting and Pat Mackenzie and I still do a bit, but not much now that the big singers and storytellers are dead. Some work being done by Folklore department and Joe (???) - my memory for names is shot produced a nice tape of a singer /storyteller from Roscommon a few years ago. Plenty of music around that needs to be recorded but don't know that it's being done systematically. Jim Carroll Am tempted to say Comhaltas should be and isn't but I won't in view of postings on other threads. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone still collecting in Ireland? From: The Sandman Date: 05 Aug 06 - 05:14 PM Well JIM they should be,I did some recording of a local fiddler who I used to play with some fifteen years ago Jamesie Kingston, who at the time was the last fiddle player left who was indigineous to the area . Bantry.His repertoire was interesting.I made a note of his bowing style for one reel, but he was stimulated into playing by english blow ins.at that time country and western was very popular around here and unlike now, there werent many irish children playing traditional music in this area, it was stimulated by english and to a lesser extent dublin blow ins,.when he was a young man 19201930 there were manymore irish fiddlers 30 to 40 but most emigrated to the states or england, and it was only a small minority that were interested in traditional music. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone still collecting in Ireland? From: GUEST Date: 06 Aug 06 - 03:27 AM Still a few source musicians around - we're starting work with a local piper here in Clare later this year, but as much for his information as his piping. We are more concerned at setting up a local archive of recordings - there are literally hundreds of them lying around peoples' attics, some going back nearly fifty years. Joe Byrne was the collector I was trying to remember, done some nice work on the Roscommon, Sligo, Mayo borders. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Anyone still collecting in Ireland? From: GUEST Date: 06 Aug 06 - 01:28 PM Good to hear that work is continuing, but I don't get the impression from any of these messages that anybody is still seeking out sean-nos singers. If I'm wrong, then please post a reply. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone still collecting in Ireland? From: GUEST,Diggadidoo Date: 06 Aug 06 - 01:44 PM Is that the Jim Carroll who collects sonsgs in Claire? If so people might want to look at this link be4 judging wheter hes an authority. http://www.mustrad.org.uk/reviews/clare.htm |
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Subject: RE: Anyone still collecting in Ireland? From: The Sandman Date: 06 Aug 06 - 01:47 PM what are you trying to say Diggadidoo, that link doesnt seem to work. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone still collecting in Ireland? From: GUEST,Diggadidoo Date: 06 Aug 06 - 01:52 PM Not sure what you mean, frozen food man, http://www.mustrad.org.uk/reviews/clare.htm works perfetly for me. The Digga |
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Subject: RE: Anyone still collecting in Ireland? From: The Borchester Echo Date: 06 Aug 06 - 01:58 PM Troll alert. It's the 'let's give Mr Carroll a kicking' gang of thugs on the prowl again. How tedious. btw where's Claire anyway? |
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Subject: RE: Anyone still collecting in Ireland? From: Folkiedave Date: 06 Aug 06 - 02:09 PM To Guest Digadoo Subject: RE: Anyone still collecting in Ireland? From: GUEST,Diggadidoo - PM Date: 06 Aug 06 - 01:44 PM The thread was a question about collecting. I answered more or less the same as Jim Carroll. Have you a link to something of mine in the hopes of starting a load of vituperative postings? Dave Eyre AKA folkiedave |
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Subject: RE: Anyone still collecting in Ireland? From: GUEST,Phelim Date: 06 Aug 06 - 02:20 PM Ignore whoever's writing this stuff - diggery whatever his name is. I asked a genuine question to start this thread and thanks to Jim and Dave for their answers, though I should have signed it - sorry, not familiar with Mudcat etiquette. I remain particularly interested in current work regarding sean-nos singers. Thanks, Phelim |
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Subject: RE: Anyone still collecting in Ireland? From: The Sandman Date: 06 Aug 06 - 03:39 PM and who is diggaddidoo and what authority does he have, is he a collector himself. he sounds like someone with a grudge against jim, |
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Subject: RE: Anyone still collecting in Ireland? From: GUEST Date: 06 Aug 06 - 03:50 PM Don't worry lads, we're in good hands. It's the big league again. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Anyone still collecting in Ireland? From: GUEST Date: 07 Aug 06 - 03:52 AM Phelim, Don't know if there is any systematic work being done on Sean Nos singers (I presume you mean Irish language) but I have noticed that there seems to have been some locally produced produced material released over the last few years. Lillis Ó Laoire has been working on Tory Island and has published a book on his work there. I have no idea of its merits as I don't speak Irish, but he is an extremely sound and dedicated researcher. There were rumours of an English translation, but I haven't seen one. I'm sure you are aware of Pádraigín Ní Uallacháin's magnificent 'The Hidden Ulster' - if not, it's well worth looking out for. Both of these are printed works, don't know if there are any recordings to go with them. There were plans to publish in some form the O Cróinín family (Cork)recordings and manuscripts, but that project has been successfully scuppered. Bo Almquist of the Folklore Department has been working on the Peig Sayers Blasket Islands collection with a view to publication - I understand this has run to 7 or 8 volumes so far - don't know how near completion it is. I'm sure John Moulden would know of anything being produced commercially. I'll be seeing him at the beginning of next month and will ask him and pass anything on I find out. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Anyone still collecting in Ireland? From: GUEST,Phelim Date: 07 Aug 06 - 02:44 PM Thanks for your message Jim. My family comes from Armagh and then we moved to Ballyconnell and I bought the hidden ulster very informative about the area called Oriel. However I got the feeling that all the songs in Irish that could have been collected from the 6 counties hadn't been. I know few people speak Irish there any more so Im very interested in songs that are being collected in toher parts of Ireland. Im not aware of the O Cronin family so dont understand your point. I had to read Peg Sayers book at national school and hated it as most of us did at the time. What is the folklore department and who is john moulden? More information would be very useful. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone still collecting in Ireland? From: Folkiedave Date: 07 Aug 06 - 02:50 PM Try Google for John Moulden. Takes you to Ulster Songs. Follow the links. There is also http://www.fermanaghmusic.com/ |
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Subject: RE: Anyone still collecting in Ireland? From: Folkiedave Date: 07 Aug 06 - 03:05 PM And Robbie Hannan presents a programme mainly in Gaelic about traditional Irish music on BBC Radio Ulster. This is available on play it again. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone still collecting in Ireland? From: Brían Date: 07 Aug 06 - 07:32 PM Irish-Language singers like Johnny Mháirtín Learaí and Meaití Jó Shéamuis Ó Fátharta are still researching and collecting songs, though probably independent of any affiliation. The bad news is that many traditional singers are dying off, possibly without passing on much of their store. The good news is that enough informal collecting with portable recording devices is going on to carry whole repetoires forward to the present time without the need for recording contracts. I have done some informal collecting myself of Irish-Language songs that have ended up in Boston College archives. Brían |
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Subject: RE: Anyone still collecting in Ireland? From: GUEST Date: 07 Aug 06 - 08:52 PM You might like to contact the Tunneys up in Inishowen as well. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone still collecting in Ireland? From: GUEST,8:52 Date: 07 Aug 06 - 09:23 PM Just realised there probably aren't too many around Mudcat who would be that knowledgeable. This is one of those questions better posed at the Ir-trad list (Tom Munnelly posts there). You never said if you were interested in the collection of tunes, songs, or both. Serious enquires could, and likely should be directed to the ITMA in Dublin, though they are in the process of moving this year, so I don't know if they are open for business. You could ring them up. Someone mentioned Lilis (and others) who can be found at the Irish World Music Centre at University of Limerick. Or Liz Doherty at the Arts Council. Or the ladies at Glor Irish Music Centre for collecting in their area. An Goilin Singers Club is still going strong in Dublin, so I don't think we need concern ourselves with running out of great songs and tunes just yet. The song tradition isn't nearly as thriving as the dance music, but there is still a healthy living tradition on the ground. Don't forget--a tradition doesn't remain living for long without people adding new stuff and adapting the old! |
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Subject: RE: Anyone still collecting in Ireland? From: GUEST Date: 08 Aug 06 - 03:48 AM John Moulden is a national treasure of knowledge of Irish song. From Portstewart (I think) but attending Galway Univ. John runs a book-record selling business - if he can't get it (or let you know where to) - it can't be got. He can probably let you know what's happening in the field. Dáibhí O Cróinín, grandson of Ireland's foremost traditional singer Elizabeth Cronin, having published a book of her songs 'The Songs of Elizabeth Cronin' along with 2 CDs - (excellent but now sadly out of print), was working on a further collection from other family members and local people recorded by his father in West Cork. For reasons which don't bear re-visiting, but are not unconnected with the troll we keep finding under our bridge, Dáibhí abandoned the project so the material will probably never see light of day. From what I know of the Peig Sayers collection, the schoolbook you mention did not nearly do her justice and there is a wealth of songs and stories to be had when it is completed. Don't know about Irish songs in Ulster; I think Pádraigín Ní Uallacháin's web-site (if she has one) might have more information; if not, try the Ulster Folk Museum. Jimmy McBride in Inishowen was doing a great deal of work with local singers there but I don't think there are too many around nowadays. Folklore Department is based at UCD in Dublin. ITMA, (another National treasure) as somebody mentioned, is moving but plans to re-open in September. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Anyone still collecting in Ireland? From: GUEST,Fred McCormick Date: 08 Aug 06 - 04:50 AM Jim, I have no idea who the troll is that you keep finding under your bridge, or why any self respecting troll would consider lurking anywhere near you. However, you are the one who has persisted in making veiled snide attacks on Geoff Wallis and I, after your abitrarily calling a truce on the grounds that the argument was damaging the music. And the music is what we're all in this for. Well, isn't it ? I can't speak for Geoff, but I have consistently honoured that truce ever since you arbitrarily introduced it. What's more, to satisfy any lingering doubts you may have, I have never attacked you under anything but my own name and am not interested in doing so. Now we can see who's damaging the music. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone still collecting in Ireland? From: GUEST Date: 08 Aug 06 - 08:11 AM Fred, I didn't mention either you or your friend. I was passing on facts about what was and wasn't being done in Ireland. If you disagree with those facts, please feel free to correct me. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Anyone still collecting in Ireland? From: GUEST,Fred McCormick Date: 08 Aug 06 - 08:31 AM If these two statements don't refer to me, perhaps you could say just who they do refer to. "For reasons which don't bear re-visiting, but are not unconnected with the troll we keep finding under our bridge, Dáibhí abandoned the project so the material will probably never see light of day." "There were plans to publish in some form the O Cróinín family (Cork)recordings and manuscripts, but that project has been successfully scuppered." |
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Subject: RE: Anyone still collecting in Ireland? From: Big Mick Date: 08 Aug 06 - 09:05 AM I can't speak to what is going on between Carroll and McCormick, but find it interesting. Please keep on entertaining us poor ignorant folks from the other side of the pond. But I can say this. One of the most valuable additions to my collection of Music was the "Songs of Elizabeth Cronin" with the accompanying CD's. There is a family of Cronins in my area. Their exposure to being Irish consisted of wearing pointed ears and drinking green beer on St. Pat's. One of the girls is friend of my daughter and heard me singing an old ballad one day. She seemed interested so I sat her down, hauled out the book and showed her pictures of her famous name kin, and played her some of the CD's. It sparked an interest, and she borrowed the book. Before I could get it back, her da wanted to read it. Now I see them at all of our concerts, and other events. Nice to see folks wanting to know what our shared heritage is really about, instead of the cooked up bullcrap that commercial interests want us to see. There are so many bright young Uilleann pipers on the scene today that I hope someone is collecting examples of their music. One day they will be the Rowsomme's of the world. Mick |
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Subject: RE: Anyone still collecting in Ireland? From: GUEST Date: 08 Aug 06 - 01:50 PM Sorry Mick, As I said, I was trying to pass information. Agree with you entirely about teh book and suggest you read Musical Traditions review. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Anyone still collecting in Ireland? From: GUEST,Eddie McMullan Date: 09 Aug 06 - 09:44 AM There is also Maurice Leydon from Belfast (already has two books out and working on a third) and Jackie Boyce, Co Down. had a book published last year on songs from Co Down (and I believe is working on another, might not be of Co Down) Hope this is of help. Sad to say the BIG FISH of collecting has passed away, Frank Harte. (I wonder what happened to his collection, I heard it was the biggest in Ireland) Eddie |
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Subject: RE: Anyone still collecting in Ireland? From: GUEST Date: 10 Aug 06 - 01:04 AM Some gems from Frank They'll be honoring him in Dublin this fall. Dropping a note to his wife Stella would likely tell you what, if anything, has happened with his collection. Wikipedia has a page on Irish music collecting |
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Subject: RE: Anyone still collecting in Ireland? From: Fibula Mattock Date: 10 Aug 06 - 05:27 AM Jackie's Songs of the County Down. He posts on here sometimes. John Moulden used to post on Mudcat from time to time too, but haven't seen any sight of him for a while. |
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Subject: RE: Anyone still collecting in Ireland? From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh Date: 10 Aug 06 - 11:58 AM One GUEST mentions "the Ir-trad list". Where is this/how can it be accessed/? Thanks to GUEST or to anyone who knows. An Buachaill Caol Dubh (R.G.) |
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Subject: RE: Anyone still collecting in Ireland? From: GUEST Date: 10 Aug 06 - 01:20 PM IRTRAD-L@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE You have to sign up to participate but not to visit the postings archive. Come in, the water's lovely. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Anyone still collecting in Ireland? From: GUEST Date: 10 Aug 06 - 02:24 PM Sorry - that was an e-mail address - too long in the west Clare sun. Try https://listserv.heanet.ie Or just Google Irtrad Jim Carroll |
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