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BS: Thank you my foolish friends in the West
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BS: Thank you my foolish friends in the West |
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Subject: BS: Thank you my foolish friends in the West From: Wolfgang Date: 24 Jul 06 - 01:37 PM Thank you, my foolish friends in the West (opinion article in THE TIMES) The common element of radical Third Worldism is an obsession with American power, as though the US were so intrinsically evil that any enemy of the US must be our friend... The left has a proud tradition of defending political freedoms, at home and abroad. But this tradition is in danger of being lost when western intellectuals indulge in power worship. Applause for autocrats undermines the morale of people who insist on fighting for their freedoms... I do like and agree with (much of) this article. You don't like it? It may be you who is meant. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Thank you my foolish friends in the West From: GUEST Date: 24 Jul 06 - 02:58 PM Thank you my foolish friends in the West |
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Subject: RE: BS: Thank you my foolish friends in the West From: Jack the Sailor Date: 24 Jul 06 - 03:05 PM I don't like it. Its boring and I couldn't care less what "the left" thinks. Its a waste of time, mental masturbation. The fact that they are using the article to sell Ann Coulter doesn't help. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Thank you my foolish friends in the West From: robomatic Date: 24 Jul 06 - 03:24 PM Very good article. I particularly like the wisdom of the anecdote about Reinaldo Arenas who left Cuba saying: "The difference between the communist and capitalist systems is that, although both give you a kick in the ass, in the communist system you have to applaud, while in the capitalist system you can scream. And I came here to scream." I would add that it is not purely a liberal fault to applaud left leaning dictators, those on the right have been equally guilty of making champions out of very nasty pieces of work. The truth is that when leaders are seen to be effective they gain admirers, even if they accumulate power by flouting law and convention. There have been Democratic movements in Germany, Japan and Russia which were overwhelmed by the politics of thuggery. The politics of thuggery have frequently been employed in the United States, against and for municipal governments, state governments, and labor unions. It shows up in the ancient histories of Greece and Rome. There are at least two cases where the institution of Democracy is credited as being a response to extreme misuse of public power made into personal power (rape, where the victimized man's wife did the honorable thing and killed herself) It is a never ending battle between legal methods and political objectives, the refrain being "does the end justify the means?" An excellent American literary response to the issue was the book "All The King's Men" by the poet Robert Penn Warren, loosely based on the life of Huey Long. A great British effort was the "I Claudius" series by the English poet Robert Graves. The BBC series had a great line in it where a historian says to a usurper: "You are the reason why mankind must not lose its sense of smell!" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Thank you my foolish friends in the West From: Ernest Date: 24 Jul 06 - 04:43 PM Interesting article, Wolfgang. Another proof that reputation as an artist isn`t necessarily combined with sound political judgement. Is it any wonder why people aren`t influenced by political songs? Best Ernest |
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Subject: RE: BS: Thank you my foolish friends in the West From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 24 Jul 06 - 06:45 PM " this tradition is in danger of being lost when western intellectuals indulge in power worship." Who could disagree with that? But it seems to me that the main object of such power worship still tends to be the people in the world who have the most power, and who use that power ruthlessly to preserve it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Thank you my foolish friends in the West From: GUEST Date: 24 Jul 06 - 07:08 PM Ernest, I've been very influenced by political songs thank you. Viva Phil Ochs! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Thank you my foolish friends in the West From: number 6 Date: 24 Jul 06 - 07:39 PM "Is it any wonder why people aren`t influenced by political songs?" .... oh yeah .... go back to your room Earnie. sIx |
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Subject: RE: BS: Thank you my foolish friends in the West From: Amos Date: 24 Jul 06 - 07:49 PM Is he talking about something current? I hadn't noticed liberals applauding any autocrats...did I miss something? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Thank you my foolish friends in the West From: katlaughing Date: 24 Jul 06 - 07:58 PM Well, Amos, I was disappointed a while back to see Cindy Sheehan on CSpan, I think it was, or heard on NPR, talking about Chavez in what I would call *glowing* terms. She sounded naive and spoon-fed, which made me sad because I do support her efforts, as you know. My Rog used to work in VZ. He doesn't think much of Chavez. If anyone would like to read the words of Venezuelans on this subject, look for a board at salon.com called the Devil's Excrement, which refers to oil. There are many Venezuelans on there who don't think much of Mr. Chavez. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Thank you my foolish friends in the West From: Peace Date: 24 Jul 06 - 08:12 PM "Capitalism is the exploitation of man by man, and communism is the reverse." John Gardner |
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Subject: RE: BS: Thank you my foolish friends in the West From: Peace Date: 24 Jul 06 - 08:24 PM It is a well-written article, IMO. And has more than enough truth in it to make a clear point: Support for bad guys regardless of where they fall on the 'political spectrum' is not a good thing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Thank you my foolish friends in the West From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 25 Jul 06 - 01:37 PM The fallacy is the old glib, and poisonous, assertion that "my enemy's enemy is my friend". But that has to be recognised as poisonous in both directions. In fact a good working assumption might often be "my enemy's enemy is probably also my enemy". All regimes are flawed in one way and another, some more deeply than others. It's important to recognise the flaws and not be taken in by the hype. But only too often attacks on the regimes in question are orchestrated by those who are every bit as bad or worse. The old regime under Tito in Yugoslavia had a lot wrong with it - but what succeeded it has made it seem like the good old days to many. It seems pretty clear that the same is true of the very much nastier Saddam regime in Iraq. Aristide in Haiti was a long way from perfect, but what in happening there today is unspeakable. |
