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Help - LOUD fiddle--mute? earplugs?
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Help - LOUD fiddle--mute? earplugs? |
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Subject: Tech: Help: LOUD fiddle--mute? earplugs? From: Scoville Date: 09 Jul 06 - 05:44 PM I'm learning fiddle. I don't think I draw particularly hard against the strings (at least, I'm much less squeaky than I used to be), but my fiddle is going to make me deaf if I don't either get a mute for it or plug my left ear. I try to turn my face a bit toward the bridge when I play so it's not blasting directly into the side of my head but it still makes me pretty numb after a few tunes. I can't play with it against my arm like a lot of old-time fiddlers do--my arms and hands aren't long enough and I already have some problems with my left hand and wrist and can't bend them that much for long. An Irish-style fiddler I knew once told me this was an asset but if that were true, all fiddlers would be deaf by the time they were forty, which seems sort of counterproductive. Worse, it seems to be getting louder the more I play it. I don't think my hearing is particularly sensitive, so is it normal for a fiddle to be so damned loud? (Also, since I mostly learn by ear these days, will a mute mess up the sound too much? Or does it really just take the edge off?) |
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Subject: RE: Help - LOUD fiddle--mute? earplugs? From: wysiwyg Date: 09 Jul 06 - 06:02 PM You might have ugly-sounding strings. There are a number of really good threads about string combinations. In brief-- avoid the Super-Sensitives a lot of fiddles get set up with, for beginners. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: Help - LOUD fiddle--mute? earplugs? From: Scoville Date: 09 Jul 06 - 06:08 PM I'll probably change the strings soon, anyway, but I was warned by the previous owner that it was a loud SOB and, although it didn't seem to bad when I was even more of a novice, it's getting to be unbearable now that I'm not so timid. It doesn't sound bad (and I suspect that what does sound bad has to do with the incompetent holding the bow). It's actually a pretty good-sounding fiddle, I think, for a totally nondescript instrument. It's just loud. |
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Subject: RE: Help - LOUD fiddle--mute? earplugs? From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 09 Jul 06 - 06:14 PM Lighter, slacker strings may help, but you'll need to experiment. Meanwhile, buy a practice mute; all they do is dampen the vibrations. Intonation shouldn't be affected. |
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Subject: RE: Help - LOUD fiddle--mute? earplugs? From: GUEST,PennyRoyal Date: 09 Jul 06 - 07:17 PM When I first learned how to play a few tunes on the fiddle, anything I played on the E string seemed particularly loud and painful to my ears. It wasn't that I was out of tune, it was just LOUD and that pitch, well, OUCH. It didn't take long before that didn't bother me anymore at all. New strings may be helpful and the mute works wonders. Good luck to you. Your ears will get used to it. PR |
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Subject: RE: Help - LOUD fiddle--mute? earplugs? From: Stewart Date: 09 Jul 06 - 07:17 PM This is an occupational hazzard of playing the fiddle - that is, going deaf in the left ear. Some fiddlers develop this problem after playing for many years. So some sort of an ear plug might be a good thing. Then you mention playing with the fiddle against your arm or chest as many old-time fiddlers do. That's not a good idea, since you are holding the fiddle with your left hand and in the process, bending the wrist back which can lead to carpal tunnel syndrome and other wrist problems. You should be able to hold the fiddle with your chin, and a shoulder rest if need be, without using your hand. Proper posture is very important, so your wrist does not take on the whole weight load of the fiddle. I know, because I'm recovering from some wrist problems, and I've tried to hold the fiddle in a proper manner. But there's a lot of repetitive motion going on with the fingers and the muscles can be over stressed without proper attention. As to strings, try some perlon core strings such as Thomastik Dominants or Infields. They're a little softer sounding. Cheers, S. in Seattle |
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Subject: RE: Help - LOUD fiddle--mute? earplugs? From: open mike Date: 09 Jul 06 - 07:28 PM you might try clipping a clothes pin on the bridge as a temporary mute. mutes that slip on are often made of ebony, and they slide on the bridge preventing it from vibrating some day you will be glad you can play louder than the accompanimant |
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Subject: RE: Help - LOUD fiddle--mute? earplugs? From: Leadfingers Date: 09 Jul 06 - 08:54 PM I am NOT a Violin player , but did wonder wether the Bow affects the volume ! Or is it to do with the HANDLING of the bow ?? A (now dead) friend was a GOOD clear and LOUD fiddler , but another friend (also a good fiiddler) played his fiddle and it wasnt anything like as loud ! Is that down to technique ? or Bow ? or Both ?? |
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Subject: RE: Help - LOUD fiddle--mute? earplugs? From: Sorcha Date: 09 Jul 06 - 09:37 PM Both, Lead. Strings WILL make a difference, and another reason you don't want to play 'old time' style against your chest is that your intonation will suffer big time. I would also suggest Thomastik Dominants, and my Maggie fiddle is a brassy bitch too. If I ask her to, she can walk on 2 5 string banjos and a piano accordian. A LOT of it is due to bow pressure on the strings. |
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Subject: RE: Help - LOUD fiddle--mute? earplugs? From: wysiwyg Date: 09 Jul 06 - 10:03 PM ... with a Pirastro E. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: Help - LOUD fiddle--mute? earplugs? From: Sorcha Date: 09 Jul 06 - 10:06 PM Yes..I use a Pirastro or Helicore wound E. |
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Subject: RE: Help - LOUD fiddle--mute? earplugs? From: fiddler Date: 10 Jul 06 - 07:25 AM I agree with the concensus sort of! Pirastro Strings - I use obligato's 36 squids a set (gold plated Estring sound very gentle) Bow Tension (but that can vary between old time irish and English and Scottish Cape Breton techniques) and how hard you press on with the bow. Rosin amount and type (Cello Rosin sounds a lot softer on a fiddle but can be squeky) Alos play well away form the bridge softer and more mellow by the finger board and harsher and brasher by the bridge. I use an Ebony mute at times too - make sit quieter and more mellow but I am having a new mahogony one made soon as this gives a totally different sound. Fiddle is not just a matter of playing it is a matter of living with a fiddle. Mine (Like Sorchas) can dominate very easily without amplification if I want it too! Don't we fiddlers talk Bollox - we should take up melodeon and forget music :-) Andy |
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Subject: RE: Help - LOUD fiddle--mute? earplugs? From: JohnInKansas Date: 10 Jul 06 - 09:16 AM If it hurts, it's probably doing some damage to your hearing. It seems to be an occupational hazard, although perhaps less so for the solo or small group player than for one who sits in the middle of a concert orchestra. (Anyone who sits immediately in front of the percussion section eventially becomes deaf(?)) For practice, you should be able to find a "practice mute" that's a really heavy, usually hard rubber, lump that slips on the bridge and straddles the strings. The usual use is to avoid irritating the "rest of the family" but one of these will really tame the volume while still giving pretty good intonation. A heavy mute of this sort may cut some of the higher harmonics, which can even be helpful while you're trying to learn to get the basic pitch control right. You will, of course, need to do some practice at normal volume, but note there that a single long exposure to loud noise can do a lot more damage to hearing than shorter exposures of the same cumulative duration, so try to keep the painful sessions in shorter segments and rest the ear for a while before going back. And if you need them to be comfortable with the sound, don't be afraid to use an earplug. Sevaral kinds are available, and some are intended to block only "impulse" noise (as for shooters) while others reduce high/low frequencies or block all. Comfortable fit is also a problem for some. If you lack a sufficiently "meaty" jawbone, you may also be getting significant "bone conduction" that sometimes is more objectionable than the airborne sound. A thin softer pad on the chin rest, even just a "hankie" draped over, may help, although you'll have to be careful that it doesn't interfere with a proper "grip" on the fiddle. John |
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Subject: RE: Help - LOUD fiddle--mute? earplugs? From: Clinton Hammond Date: 10 Jul 06 - 09:25 AM Go to Ebay... search for Musican Earplugs.... Get a set before your hearing is too damaged.... wear at least the left one every time you play.... When you're old and grey, and still able to hear out of your left ear, you'll be happy you did |
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Subject: RE: Help - LOUD fiddle--mute? earplugs? From: Sorcha Date: 10 Jul 06 - 10:03 AM Well, since I've been deaf since birth..... :) But, if you are going to wear an ear plug (never heard of this) you need to learn to feel the sympathetic vibrations, mostly in the mastoid bone behind the ear, but also all over your body. |
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Subject: RE: Help - LOUD fiddle--mute? earplugs? From: Scoville Date: 10 Jul 06 - 10:53 AM I have to hold it under my chin or a) I can't hold it securely, and b) my left wrist gives out (another occupational hazard, I guess, of a near-lifetime of playing music . . .), which isn't an issue if I don't have to bend it sharply for prolonged periods. I've never heard of bone conduction but I supposed I'd be a candidate since I'm in no danger of developing a double chin any time soon. I think I'll start with a left ear plug. It doesn't seem to be bothering my right ear and I'm still struggling a little bit with hitting the notes straight on, so I need to ear them clearly. Thanks! Glad to know I wasn't just crazy. Most of my fiddle friends bitch about their wrists and hands but I hadn't heard them complain about ears before. (Maybe they're all already partly deaf??) |
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Subject: RE: Help - LOUD fiddle--mute? earplugs? From: leeneia Date: 10 Jul 06 - 01:53 PM Hi, Scoville. A long time ago I read an article in Smithsonian magazine about a clinic in New York that specializes in musicians. One of the doctors said that the vioin in an instrument "designed to destroy the human right arm." Now you seem to be facing possible hearing damage, possible carpal tunnel and a threat to your right arm. I really think you should find a skilled and knowledgeable (sp) teacher and make sure you are playing the vioin in a way which will not injure you down the line. |
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Subject: RE: Help - LOUD fiddle--mute? earplugs? From: Scoville Date: 10 Jul 06 - 02:31 PM Arms are doing OK and I've got three other instruments and several jobs I can blame for carpal tunnel, which was there before I started fiddle (which actually bothers me less than some other things as long as keep my old hand rules in mind; I took lessons briefly when I was a kid). It's just the ear thing now. I'll pay attention to the other body parts, though. |
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Subject: RE: Help - LOUD fiddle--mute? earplugs? From: The Sandman Date: 10 Jul 06 - 07:03 PM A very cheap and available mute is a wooden clothes peg.I put mine half way up the bridge, in from the top e side. This mutes the top three strings.I like to practice with a metrognome, this way with the fiddle muted I can hear the click . |
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Subject: RE: Help - LOUD fiddle--mute? earplugs? From: Scoville Date: 11 Jul 06 - 10:24 AM Got lots of clothes pegs at home. I got a box of ear-plugs yesterday and it will take a bit of practice hearing from the right (off-side) ear, but it helped a whole lot. I'm not thrilled about ear-plugs but I'll get used to it, and it's worth not being deafened by my own fiddle. I'll try some other things, too, though, in case the ear-plugs get too annoying. Thanks! |
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Subject: RE: Help - LOUD fiddle--mute? earplugs? From: Clinton Hammond Date: 11 Jul 06 - 11:40 AM A box of earplugs? Are they MUSICIAN ear plugs? Like some of the ones listed here http://earplugstore.stores.yahoo.net/nasopl.html Especially these http://earplugstore.stores.yahoo.net/honobr.html |
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Subject: RE: Help - LOUD fiddle--mute? earplugs? From: Pauline L Date: 12 Jul 06 - 05:34 AM One of my students had a similar problem when he started learning to play violin. He used to practice in his walk-in closet so that his neighbors and girlfriend wouldn't suffer too much. Actually, the problem was that the sound was harsh/screechy, rather than loud. The quickest, easiest thing you can do to alleviate the problem is to buy and use better strings. That will make your sound a lot more mellow. As you learn to use the bow better, you will also get a warmer, more pleasant sound. I suspect that's your problem, rather than loudness per se. |
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Subject: RE: Help - LOUD fiddle--mute? earplugs? From: Bunnahabhain Date: 12 Jul 06 - 09:13 AM I second CH above. For a musician, the disposable ear plugs are not sensible. They tend to be more uncomfortable, less effective and distort the sound, as they ( Well all the disposables I've met anyway) tend to reduce lower frequencies more than higher ones. They're fine in a 3 hour parade with 60 drummers around you (been there, done that, got the body paint...), but if you want to wear them more than once in a while, get a set of proper musicians ones. They're not that expensive, and are well worth it. |
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Subject: RE: Help - LOUD fiddle--mute? earplugs? From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 12 Jul 06 - 07:28 PM And don't use a clothespag as a mute except in an emergency. The resulting sound is nasty. Rubber practice mutes are cheap enough and don't buzz as clothespegs tend to, so you can still work on tone production while using them. |
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