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Subject: Tech: How to remember lyrics/words From: skarpi Date: 02 Jul 06 - 07:40 AM Hallo all , I am just wandering here again I think when I was a kid I remembered all I heard and all the words but now as I get older I cant remember anything I always have to ave the words on paper, so what to do??? some say sing in the shower write the lyric listen to it on cd on and on and try to remember!! So I have tryed most of thouse thing s and it won´t work ..... Any ides???? heheh I am having fun with this one I was just thinking I know all the words of Seven Drunken night how come ?? I have to think about that ........ |
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Subject: RE: Tech: How to remember lyrics/words From: John MacKenzie Date: 02 Jul 06 - 07:45 AM Some things get harder when you get older, and other things don't Skarpi. I have the remembering words problem too. I just write the words out, and play and sing the song over and over till I can do it without the paper. Giok |
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Subject: RE: How to remember lyrics/words From: skarpi Date: 02 Jul 06 - 07:59 AM thank you my old friend all the best Skarpi Iceland. |
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Subject: RE: How to remember lyrics/words From: *daylia* Date: 02 Jul 06 - 08:06 AM Even when I DO know the words, when I'm feeling pressured I sometimes pull a blank. Even if I've sung the song dozens of times aaarrrggghhhh ANd I agree - writing the words down is the best memory-booster I've found yet. |
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Subject: RE: How to remember lyrics/words From: webfolk Date: 02 Jul 06 - 08:19 AM I couldn't agree more, write them over and over, and sing them when walking the dog and in the shower and .... well you get the idea! Geoff |
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Subject: RE: How to remember lyrics/words From: Leadfingers Date: 02 Jul 06 - 08:20 AM They are called CRAFT moments !! Cant Remember A F*****g Thing ! |
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Subject: RE: How to remember lyrics/words From: Charley Noble Date: 02 Jul 06 - 08:27 AM Skarpi- I probably learn most of my new songs as I drive back and forth to music practice with my band; it's a 40-minute trip each way. There's something about the isolation of driving that allows me to concentrate on new songs, and because I am on automatic pilot I really don't need to worry about missing any turns. There are more distractions at home, but that's probably where I do the most polishing of a new song. I also use the local coffeehouse to try them out in public, and get over the public performance anxieties. Yes, practice, practice, practice in as many ways as you can imagine. It's kind of like falling in love! Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: How to remember lyrics/words From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 02 Jul 06 - 08:46 AM I do the driving thing too. If I have no recording, I record myself, then sing along as I drive. I find that much better than holding a script and trying not to read it. |
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Subject: RE: How to remember lyrics/words From: GUEST,Auldtimer Date: 02 Jul 06 - 10:15 AM Writing the words down is a definate starting point, but only after working out just why you want to learn the song. Rework the words to how you speak/talk/sing/think, your phrasing and breathing patterns more than likely will be different from the singer or writer of your chosen song. Make the song yours add or revove, if's, but's, and's. Don't coppy every grace note, inclination, mistake and hesitation as heard on Track 2 of whoever's CD you heard the song. Find other recordings or vairiants and any background or history to the song. It is true knoledge is power and the more you know about a song will add to the ease and confidence of your performance. Words can fail or get mixed up but lack of confidence is usualy the main reason for drying up. |
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Subject: RE: How to remember lyrics/words From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 02 Jul 06 - 10:33 AM I concentrate on the rhymes, for one thing. I sing a line, then think ahead to what rhymes with it. It seems easier to fill in the rest once I remember the rhyme that's coming. Another thing is to think about the story that the song tells. How do the rhyming lines get the story told? Sometimes word order has to be very unusual in order to make a rhyme. I really concentrate on lines like that, singing them over and over. For example: 'Twas just about a month ago unto this place she came And sent our hearts all blazing up in love's undying flame. And made OF every other lass about the place a foe because she took their sweethearts, did the Pride of Pimlico. In this verse, the word "of" in the third line, which is usually an unimportant word, is critical to making the 3rd & 4th lines rhyme and make sense. |
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Subject: RE: How to remember lyrics/words From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 02 Jul 06 - 02:55 PM A useful trick is to learn the song backward! If there is a chorus, learn it. From paper, sing it over and over until you are sick of it. Now the LAST verse. Sing it from paper, paying attention, to try to memorize it, thoroughly, just by itselt. Now sing that last verse, and add the chorus, which you learned earlier. Sing that set (last and chorus) over and over. Now sing the second-last verse multiple times from paper. Now from memory sing this second-last, followed by the previously-drilled-in-and-now-easy last verse and chorus (the previously learned, or PL). Do that set of new-verse-plus-PL, over and over. Proceed this way, adding at the beginning the new matter to be learned, and "reciting" what has been drilled in previously. Oh, and of course placing the well-learned chorus in at the junctures where it belongs. The point is that at any time you are only learning ONE verse at a time, and the PL is hooked onto it. This way, the Previously Learned, (as it now stands) which is easy now, is associated with the new bit. Learning a song this way, incrementally and backwards, makes it unlikely that you will come up empty in the middle of an inadequately learned song. The only uncertain part is the current addition, and you are conditioned to hook on all that follows. When you get to the beginning of the song, everything that follows has been built in as a solid stream; you should never get to a place where you have to ask, "Wattafock comes next?" Try it. It's useful. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: How to remember lyrics/words From: 8_Pints Date: 02 Jul 06 - 04:39 PM I agree with AuldTimer that performance goes beyond learning the words : many other elements need to be worked on particularly the rythm of the words as well as the rhyme and meaning. I find I'm just as bad memorising words now as I was twenty years ago! For me 'learning songs' in the car was not a viable option as the office was less than a mile from where I live. Writing out the text as you want to deliver it with appropriate highlighting for emphasis is essential, particularly if the emphasis changes from verse to verse. Once the words have been learnt I found it useful to draft a prompt sheet containing no more three words of each line that can act as a trigger to each new phrase. This can be scanned at a glance allowing more time for interaction with the audience, etc. One person we chatted to last week claimed he could learn 5 songs in a week: he couldn't have put much effort into doing the songs much justice!!! Good luck, Bob |
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Subject: RE: How to remember lyrics/words From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 02 Jul 06 - 05:35 PM Dave wrote what I was going to write. Learn from the end backwards. And sing while you are driving - only please don't go checking the printed words while you are doing so! In songs where there is no chorus make a point of learning the first line of a verse along with the last line of the verse that precedes it, so that they run into each other in your head, and one naturally leads into the other. Also, if you can't think of the next line or the next verse, sing the one you've just done over again. People will likely think it's intentional if you don't look embarassed about it. And if you miss out a verse or two, or adjust the lines as you go, it's not a mistake, it's a variant. The folk process in action. Vocal Darwinism. |
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Subject: RE: How to remember lyrics/words From: Les from Hull Date: 02 Jul 06 - 05:55 PM I don't drive so I can't advise on learning while your driving. But cycling is much more rhythmical, and you can change gear if you're not in the right rhythm! More seriously, songs that tell are a story are much easier to learn than songs that you can take any two lines from one verse and replace them anywhere else in the song. I find it much easier to keep something like 'Lord Bateman' in my head (though thankfully for others, it doesn't come out very often!), because you can picture the story in your mind (or is that just me?). Whichever way you do it (and there's some excellent advice here) I find it's best to do it a bit at a time. Learn one verse and do it over and over until it's fixed in long-term memory. And then learn another bit. People sometimes say 'I don't know how you remember all those words'. Well it comes from doing it a lot. The more you do it the easier it gets. It's never easy. Only when you've learnt the words can you put some effort into performing them. Mind you by then I've sometimes forgotten the accompaniment! Best of luck Les Oh and my spellcheck wanted to change Lord Bateman to Lord Batman! That's going to stay with me now! |
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Subject: RE: How to remember lyrics/words From: Barry Finn Date: 02 Jul 06 - 06:24 PM Hi Sharpi I'd have to agree with Charlie about the driving. It seems to fit in with me anyway. Now I just need to get my drivers license back. Are you asking about songs that you already new & did or learning new songs. I know after metting & hearing you at the Getaway that you do know a good number of songs, that why I ask. From trying to remember songs that once knew, it's a little different for me than tryng to learn a new one. The old ones sometimes I can bring back, no problem, others I have to do a bit of recalling before I'm able to sing them though again, which is simply trash though them & building them back up again. Then there are the others, the one I have to go back to the paper & start from the begining, but it's not as hard as it was to learn them. It is a pain to try to sing one that one has known so well for so long & you (or at least me) can't make it through. Hope it all goes well with you & your sing Barry |
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Subject: RE: How to remember lyrics/words From: JohnInKansas Date: 02 Jul 06 - 06:43 PM A recent article in American Scientist magazine, July-August 2006 issue, titled "Sleep to Remember" explores some interesting research on memory. The article is online, but one must be a Sigma Xi member, or have a paid subscription to be able to log in to see it there. It might be in some libraries. The premise is that what you study is placed in a "short-term memory" part of the brain that is good at absorbing new input, but that doesn't retain things well. The brain must do some additional processing before the memory becomes "permanent" and learning other things - i.e. experiencing other input - before the other processing takes place, will "crowd out" what you've studied. Some rather simple experiments, using horridly expensive equipment, indicate that what you learn is "gelled" into more permanent form by being moved to another part of the brain during "REM" sleep. After the REM step, the memory of what you studied is more securely retained, but recalling it may still be a problem until a third step is accomplished during a phase of sleep that normally follows the REM session. The researchers postulate that this other phase is when the memory gets "associated" with other things in your head to provide the triggers that allow you to recall it when you want the information. While the researchers found the best results when subjects got a normal full night of sleep soon after a study session, they found that a "nap" of one or two hours, within up to about four hours of the study session, appeared to accomplish enough of the REM processing to permit the rest of the consolidating to happen at the next extended sleep. Without at least the nap, the learning in temporary memory appeared to be discarded as other sensory inputs came in. The results are consistent with other reports on memory, although the "explanations" will need more testing before they should be taken as proven; but even if the details are still fuzzy: Rehearsing the songs you're working on shortly before bedtime, and then "sleeping on it" may help. (Other observers have commented that older people (over about 30) tend to have shorter and less frequent REM sleep, so good comfortable (and intentional) sleep sessions become more important to us as elders. Maybe it does have something to do with memory.) John |
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Subject: RE: How to remember lyrics/words From: JohnInKansas Date: 02 Jul 06 - 06:56 PM An serious oversight. I failed to name the author of the article above. By way of apology: Matthew P. Walker, Ph.D. Medical Reserch Council in London 1999. Postdoctoral fellow and instructor, psychiatry and psychology, Harvard Medical School Assistant Professor of Psychology, Harvard Medical School 2004. Currently Director of the Sleep and Neuroimaging Laboratory, Department of Psychiatry, Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, Harvard Medical School. John |
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Subject: RE: How to remember lyrics/words From: Mudlark Date: 02 Jul 06 - 09:37 PM All good suggestions. And...if all else fails...use the paper crutch. The joy of singing a song you love is the main thing. |
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Subject: RE: How to remember lyrics/words From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 02 Jul 06 - 11:21 PM Ok John - I found this thread - so what did the research say about 'repetition'? Or is that just a case that if you do it enough times, some of it 'sticks' eventually, due to eventually getting the right sort of sleep at the right time? :-) What were we talking about? |
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Subject: RE: How to remember lyrics/words From: Tannywheeler Date: 03 Jul 06 - 12:07 AM Skarp, if you want to know about "ides" ask Julius Caesar and Will Shakespeare. Looks like there are lots of IDEAS here for you. And(in re age), yes, memory's the second thing to go. The first is...um...er...........Tw |
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Subject: RE: How to remember lyrics/words From: Fergie Date: 03 Jul 06 - 08:12 PM I learn to see the song in my imagination, mental pictures that go with the words. I cut a CD with the song repeated over and over and I listen to it as I fall asleep. I singing it over and over, I have the words written down and when I miss a line I look at the written words. Connect with the emotions expresses, become the people and their feelings, their thoughts and their actions. I practice constantly as I ride to work and home on my bicycle. Eventually the words become imprinted in many places in the memory and this makes retrieval easier. Fergus |
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Subject: RE: How to remember lyrics/words From: Charley Noble Date: 03 Jul 06 - 10:09 PM When I'm really working on a song, I'm often aware that I'm still working on it while I'm sleeping, that it's being automatically rehearsed on some level. Then there's always the trick of writing the lyrics onto your arm or sleeve... Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: How to remember lyrics/words From: skarpi Date: 04 Jul 06 - 02:34 AM Hallo all, since I have short time until friday I think I ´ll use the old way but there are many interesting ideas here and I will try some of them out . I am playing in TV show tomorrowmorning thats on Wednsday at 08:40 on channel 2 in Iceland its called the " Stöð 2 " and the show is called " Ísland í bítið " also broadcast on radio called Bylgjan its also on the Internet so if you are interested please listen and tell us how we did. On friday night we are playing on an Irish Festival All the best Skarpi ICeland. |
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Subject: RE: How to remember lyrics/words From: GUEST Date: 04 Jul 06 - 06:53 AM Skarpi, any chance of a link? and a time? Zulu time (GMT) would help but local Rekyjavik time would be OK too, Good Luck mate, if it goes as good as the Getaway performance you will be Fine!! I still chuckle at your Icelandic " She'll be coming round the Mountain" at the Sunday night concert!! |
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Subject: RE: How to remember lyrics/words From: Scrump Date: 04 Jul 06 - 07:33 AM Interesting thread, and skarpi beat me to it. I have the same problem remembering lyrics. Until now I've just written the words down or typed them in and printed them out, then I try to remember what I can and refer to the sheet when I get stuck. The idea suggested above of learning the verses in reverse order is interesting - I'll give that a go. As I travel to work by train, I can't sing them out loud so I just think the words to myself, i.e. sing it in my head. I've printed the words in a small font on a small piece of paper (a sort of crib sheet) so I can pull it out of my pocket when I need to, if the train's crowded and I can't easily use the full size sheet. Then I play/sing it several times at home until I reckon I've cracked it. But however well I think I've learned the words, I sometimes come unstuck the first time I sing it in front of an audience. I guess that's to do with nerves. One song I had (or thought I had) learned well, I recently tried to sing in public, got stuck in the first verse, tried again and got stuck, so I just abandoned that and moved on to another song - nobody seemed to mind. Got me a bit flustered though. However, once I've gone through the first time nerves bit, I find the next time easier because I guess part of the nervousness is not knowing how it'll be received, and once you've done it (albeit made a bit of a mess of it) and got through it, I get more confident the next time. I now have a rule that I start off with something I know really well - then after the first one you know the audience and feel better about trying one you're maybe not so familiar with. Strangely I sometimes find I can (perhaps with a little thought) remember something I learned in my youth even though I haven't sung it for years - I guess my memory was better then and they imprinted themselves on my brain more deeply, whereas learning new songs now seems a difficult task. I have loads of songs I'd like to do but I just don't have the time to learn them (day job, family etc.) - I wish I could somehow magically get the words into my head but I know I just have to keep plugging away. I also fine if I have the words to hand, I tend to be lazy and look at them. My crib sheets come in handy - I have even got stuck in mid song and pulled the crib sheet out of my pocket. Luckily it was a humorous song and I was able to make a joke out of it, but I guess it would spoil a 'serious' song. As others have said, songs with a definite storyline are easier IMO. More abstract lyrics are more difficult to remamber, although if you get the verses in the wrong order it doesn't matter so much ;-) Oops, sorry about the message length, rambling on again... |
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Subject: RE: How to remember lyrics/words From: GUEST Date: 04 Jul 06 - 07:40 AM One important thing - when you write (or better still, type/print) the sords out, NUMBER THE VERSES !!! This provides a very strong visual clue in your mind's eye. |
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Subject: RE: How to remember lyrics/words From: GUEST Date: 04 Jul 06 - 08:07 AM Sorry, words not sords. |
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Subject: RE: How to remember lyrics/words From: Artful Codger Date: 04 Jul 06 - 08:17 AM Les, you cruel man: now we'll ALL be thinking "Lord Batman", just as we praise our most highly flavoured gravy. This bears repeating: Learn songs from back to front. It really helps counter the natural tendency to overpractice the beginning and underpractice the end. Visualize! Exaggerate your mental pictures, adding outlandish details. Also picture how the words appear on the page. Indulge in alliterative word play to cement particular words in your mind. If a person is "placid", dress him in plaid. Another way to exaggerate: Speak the words aloud, and emote like Master Thespian. To remember the order of verses or things, mentally pin them to parts of your body, top to bottom. Involve that body part in your visualization. Don't repeat couplets or verses like a broken record; this establishes a mental habit of returning/blanking rather than moving on. Instead, start at the end of the preceding line, continue through the first words of the verse or couplet following, and wipe your mental slate before repeating. At a minimum, start with a mental picture of where you're coming from and end with a mental picture of where you're going. Use your memorization time effectively. Mark the parts that give you the most trouble and focus on them. While doing this, avoid the usual tendency to sing whole verses rather than just the troublesome part and the bits around it. Spread your memorization time throughout the day: 5 minutes here, 5 minutes there. Use autosuggestion, like "Though I may have doubts, every day I learn and recall songs more easily." Practice this frequently and consistently. Be patient for results; anything short of a quick and dramatic change you're unlikely to recognize. |
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Subject: RE: How to remember lyrics/words From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 04 Jul 06 - 09:18 AM "mentally pin them to parts of your body, top to bottom. Involve that body part in your visualization." Hmmmmmmmm, remembering that verse will be a right p.... |
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Subject: RE: How to remember lyrics/words From: skarpi Date: 04 Jul 06 - 03:48 PM HAlló all here is a thread to listen to Bylgjan.is a radio station http://www.bylgjan.is/ or stöð 2.is when you get there go to the right and click to listen , although you might have to download a bit. it´s on a about 08:40 at Icelandic time so If us time is about 5 or 6 hours diffrent ?? all the best Skarpi Iceland. |
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Subject: RE: How to remember lyrics/words From: Fergie Date: 04 Jul 06 - 08:08 PM Reading through this thread I realize how hard performers work for their art. Many listeners comment on how 'you seem so natural and how easy it comes to you', oh if only they knew the hours and hours of rehearsing and work it takes. Good on you Skarpi hope it went well Fergus |
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Subject: RE: How to remember lyrics/words From: Willie-O Date: 04 Jul 06 - 10:25 PM Write down in large type the first couple of words of each line...just to keep you on track. (Also where instrumental breaks or bridges are.) Write it large enough to be able to read it on the floor. Then use it as little as possible! Um, what were we talking about again? W-O |
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