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BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related
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Subject: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: GUEST,steve benbows protege off line Date: 21 Jun 06 - 12:24 PM Guys, I am trying to write a project for college and need info on "On-costs" and "Overheads" and how they are determined for an organisation. Any help will be really appreciated as I am struggling like hell!!! |
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Subject: RE: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: GUEST,TIA Date: 21 Jun 06 - 12:28 PM Hmmm. Not quite the usual BS, but definitely not musical. |
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Subject: RE: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: GUEST Date: 21 Jun 06 - 12:39 PM stop moaning. |
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Subject: RE: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: GUEST,steve benbows protege off line Date: 21 Jun 06 - 01:03 PM Guys, guys, Please i need a bit of help here not petty bickering between guests. |
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Subject: RE: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: Susan of DT Date: 21 Jun 06 - 01:04 PM Steve - This is a folk music web site |
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Subject: RE: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: MMario Date: 21 Jun 06 - 01:09 PM well - overhead would be everything *EXCEPT* the materials, labor and design cost of your project. Usually charged to a specific project based on a formulae based either on the amount of time a project would take OR how many projects are running OR some combination of the two. MMario - I don't live in the 21st century - but I play a character who does. |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: GUEST,steve benbows protege off line Date: 21 Jun 06 - 01:27 PM MMario any idea of on-costs? Many thanks for your response. That will start me off nicely. You are a saviour. As for it being a folk music site, usually it is full of interlectuals who are well educated and likely to contain a few civil engineers. (As for my last comment why the cat then puts up with me....) |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: MMario Date: 21 Jun 06 - 01:33 PM not familiar with the term. Usually Overhead + profit + (material costs, project specific labour costs, project spedcific costs (such as design, licensing, etc) ) = total costs. So I suspect on-costs would be the sum of the project specific stuff. |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: GUEST,steve benbows protege off line Date: 21 Jun 06 - 01:40 PM You sound like a genius sir. If i ever meet you i will certainly buy you a pint!! Are you an engineer or do you work with contracts - as a matter of interest |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: MMario Date: 21 Jun 06 - 01:48 PM some business courses many many years ago; practical experience; and accounting experience. *grin* according to my banking sister-in-law (her husband is an engineer) the *COSTS* are where engineers usually make their mistakes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: Amos Date: 21 Jun 06 - 02:16 PM Note that contracts vary in the way they are paid for. If you are billing costs to the customer (such as, for example, labor and materials) then those things are not overhead. In DoD there were several ways to construct the billing: a flat fee, cost plus fixed fee, or costs plus a per centage. A company can also undertake a development project "at risk" (meaning it pays for the whole thing itself in hopes of turning the resultant knowledge or product into a profit later). In that case the project gets internally charged to R&D, which could well be considered overhead. In a business that runs direct-billing projects "overhead" is limited to the buildings, office supplies, and line staff which keep the company in place, which is funded out of gross profits from the billings. In such a company a project person tries to avoid ending up "on overhead", preferring to stay on one or another or several direct-billing projects. That way he knows his salary is covered! A |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: John MacKenzie Date: 21 Jun 06 - 02:17 PM Slow down Susan, he just put it in the wrong end of the Cat. There are lots of less interesting threads than this below the line! Giok |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: AVFP Date: 21 Jun 06 - 02:58 PM PLEASE NOTEIf you have a thread that you believe needs reclassified, go to the HELP Forum and post about it, not on the thread in question. It takes a shorter time to find that way.Also do your best to have a little patience. This thread was reclassified less than an hour after it began and yet we already had others complaining. That's ridiculous. Would it be a mortal sin if this thread had remained above the line for a few hours or even a half a day? We try hard to watch this but some of you become irate immediately. Have a bit of patience please.---AVFP |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: John MacKenzie Date: 21 Jun 06 - 03:02 PM Hear hear AV. G |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: Barry Finn Date: 21 Jun 06 - 03:02 PM In the process of drawing up your breakdowns & totals you may also want to start running a second sheet & record all costs & timelines & break it away in order to form a "Schedule of Values" which will make all aware of how, when & why the costs break down by percentage & how each value will be paid. This would also be the job of the engineer. To show how the money is disbursed. More on "Schedule of Values" if you need it, ask. Barry |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: gnu Date: 21 Jun 06 - 03:09 PM Oh my. You have come HERE looking for in depth analysis and research of overhead and job costing? Yes, there are some engineers here and I think most of them would agree with me: You are royally fucked. If you are attending a college and the college library does not have such supporting info, let alone the text books that surely must be issued in the course for which you are writing this paper (project, as you call it), I would advise you to withdraw and ask for your money back. Seriously, I would enjoy helping you, but I do not have a week of spare time. Please... while I may seem condescending, I think you need to pull up your socks and get to work. gnu, M.Sc.CE, P.Eng |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: Amos Date: 21 Jun 06 - 03:12 PM What the devil does AVFP stand for? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: MMario Date: 21 Jun 06 - 03:13 PM gnu - that's a given; but hey maybe something said here will jump sart the poor lad. |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: John MacKenzie Date: 21 Jun 06 - 03:21 PM A volunteer fellow poster Amos. Ring any bells?? G.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: MMario Date: 21 Jun 06 - 03:21 PM I thought it was "a very frustrated Person" |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: Stilly River Sage Date: 21 Jun 06 - 03:30 PM Why don't you try finding a librarian who specializes in Engineering and Business matters? They should be able to point you in the right direction pretty quickly. I don't know how many calls or emails they get from outside the university, but you can find some here at the university where I work: http://library.uta.edu/sel/. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: AVFP Date: 21 Jun 06 - 03:33 PM Anonymous Volunteer Fellow Poster I feel it to be better than Joe Clone since the phrase is a favourite of a Mudcat critic.---AVFP |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: Steve Benbows protege Date: 21 Jun 06 - 03:44 PM Guys don't bother. If i had had a tutor for the first two term then maybe i wouldn't be in this mess. I have slaved my bollocks off. You only have to ask my poor pregnant wife about how much work and time i have invested in this course. Keep your condescending comments. I only wanted a brief description of both not a thesis to help me on my way. Barry thank you for your answer. Least i can work from that. Gnu, i hope our path cross. Till then "Xa me pe tute." |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: gnu Date: 21 Jun 06 - 03:44 PM MMario said : "gnu - that's a given; but hey maybe something said here will jump sart the poor lad." I hope I did. But, sounds like he needs a kick start. Again, I'm sorry if that sounds rude, but, gee golly gosh, any decent college libray should have lots of info... in addition to course texts. Of course, one could write the following paper... "Overheads are costs which cannot be considered On-costs. For example, incorporation would be an overhead cost." Sounds like an A+ there to me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: gnu Date: 21 Jun 06 - 04:00 PM What? Slaved? Pregnant wife? Brief description? You said, "Gnu, i hope our path cross. Till then "Xa me pe tute."" I hope not. Because, after that set up, whine and dis... you wouldn't want to. I don't take your kind of trolling and trashing lightly. No way you are an engineering student. I shall not be back to this thread. Good luck with your studies, whatever they might be. |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: John MacKenzie Date: 21 Jun 06 - 04:20 PM As far as I know the originator of this post is genuine guy, and a regular poster on the Cat. I think he's been misunderstood here folkies. Giok |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: MMario Date: 21 Jun 06 - 04:24 PM My apologies have been extended via pm - and I acknowledge them here. Wish I could be of more help to him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: GUEST,steve benbows protege off line Date: 21 Jun 06 - 04:36 PM John, at least someone has a bit of sense. God bless you and your family mush. If you all want to, ask leadfingers me mate if i exsist. "I hope not. Because, after that set up, whine and dis... you wouldn't want to. I don't take your kind of trolling and trashing lightly. No way you are an engineering student. I shall not be back to this thread." - THANK HEAVENS - what a didlo!!!! My above comment above are genuine. Barry i will be contacting you. Regards. Pete. |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: Becca72 Date: 21 Jun 06 - 04:44 PM umm...'scuse me, but what's a 'didlo'? |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: John MacKenzie Date: 21 Jun 06 - 04:52 PM As a well brought up young lady, and the daughter of a much respected Mudcat Elder, we don't expect you to know about such common things Becca. G.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: GUEST Date: 21 Jun 06 - 04:52 PM The spelling is correct. It is an old Romany word. |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: GUEST,Becca72 @ work Date: 21 Jun 06 - 07:37 PM Drifting.... Asked my father one day what sodomy was (I'd heard it on the TV or something and wasn't familiar with the word)....the explanation took about 1/2 hour and I got the whole bible story...I love the man to death, but sheesh. Ask him what time it is and he'll tell you how to built a clock! :-) But at least my sisters and I were well-informed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: Fergie Date: 21 Jun 06 - 08:16 PM My father told me that sodomy was just a little slip backwards. Fergus |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: Barry Finn Date: 21 Jun 06 - 08:29 PM Hi Steve Sorry to see you got so much shit about your questions & only a few things helpful. With answering all the vacumn cleaners, how to install roofs, answers about venting, what to do here & there & how to do this & that, I didn't find Steve's question so far from what's expected here. If you want this part of this music site to be closed off to certain things only carry it across the board. Don't pick out one guy or one topic & toss that into the trash, toss them all or be respectful. Barry |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: gnu Date: 21 Jun 06 - 08:41 PM I have been duly chastised in two PM's and in chat and advised to come back to this thread to apologize. Well, I am here, and I do apologize to any I have offended except for the originator of this thread. As for being a dildo, as far as I know, a dildo is a useful prick. You, PETER, should look within and summon the strength to get it up on your own. I am told, by people I trust, you are not a troll. I am told, as well, that you are serious about this question. Okay... join up as a member and PM me with details of this "project" and I will try to help, short of doing your work for you. I am a Civil Engineer with over $500M of projects under my belt. I've seen a lot of dildos and a lot of pricks. Like I always say... I jack off all trades. Balls in your court. |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: Deckman Date: 21 Jun 06 - 09:23 PM Steve, I was 'gonna jump in here and try to help you, but then I see that your thread got trashed. What country, what kind of a project, what matkups, etc? I do this for a living, but I doubt I can help you now. CHEERS, Bob(deckman)Nelson (in the upper west corner of America) |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: JohnInKansas Date: 21 Jun 06 - 11:17 PM I would certainly offer to help, but as my experience was not in Civil Engineering projects, and methods there probably are at lot different than for my lines of experience, it would more likely confuse than help. My impression is that even within Civil Engineering, there are several kinds of projects with very different accounting and bidding processes, and it also makes a lot of difference who's paying. City/County administrations in my area seem to have no method at all. State purchasers are fairly "up-tight" but not overly consistent, and Federal customers have different paper trails for different sorts of construction. Private builders don't talk to the public much when they can avoid it so it's hard to say what methods would impress them. Methods may be more consistent if your concern is just with telling internally whether a given business is making a profit, but even there the organization structure may create different "language" for describing the same things. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: GUEST Date: 22 Jun 06 - 04:32 AM He said didlo. i wish you lot could read. Didlo is a fool in Romany. |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: John MacKenzie Date: 22 Jun 06 - 05:13 AM Well Becca at least he didn't put it off till Gomorrah. G.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: gnu Date: 22 Jun 06 - 05:57 AM Oh. Then I have two apologies to make. One for being a didlo and one for being a dildo. Pete has PM'd me and I feel rather poorly about... well, anyone who read my posts knows... in short, I don't expect Pete or anyone to accept my apologies. Reading back, I don't accept my apologies. Pete - I'll get back to you by PM soon. Oh yeah... Pete... thanks for the PM. You are a good guy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: Steve Benbows protege Date: 22 Jun 06 - 06:58 AM As sent gnu's appologies are accepted and he has accepted mine. Peace on the Cat!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: Bassic Date: 22 Jun 06 - 07:04 AM Ok, this got me thinking. I dont have any real experience of the costing side of contracts so its purely out of interest so no one need feel under pressure to respond. Is this the essence of it? Overheads. - The predictable resource costs of fulfilling a contact, eg, human, material, R&D. They come off the bottom line......i.e., the profit the contractor makes on the contract, unless they are specified in advance and paid for separately by the customer. (For example, a customer as a matter of company policy, may insist on certain environmental factors or employment practices being taken into account which incur additional cost, and is therefore prepared to pay for those costs specifically). On costs. - The unpredictable and unexpected additional costs that can occur with projects. For example. The need to do re-design work due to changes in needs of the customer or mistakes in the development of the project by the contractor. Changes due to "act of god" or unexpected legislation. Sudden unavailability of essential materials or unexpected skills shortages. Who pays for these on costs is where the small print in contracts comes in. Sometimes the reason and the responsibility is clear. If the customer changes what they want then they should pay, unless they already allowed for those costs because they anticipated the need for changes in the original contract. Likewise, a contractor should pay if they get the job wrong and have to put it right. The arguments start when it is due to factors over which neither party thinks it is reasonable to expect them to have control over. If everyone has done their job well over the original contract then this is the area where Contractors can find themselves loosing money on contracts they should be making a profit on, and where Customers can suddenly find their cost spiraling out of control. Not much detail here I know but I would be interested to know if I have the basic principals right. Thanks |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: Paco Rabanne Date: 22 Jun 06 - 07:22 AM Not a bad stab there Gordon. I've spent my working life up to my neck in Building and civil engineering contracts, but none of them have ever got as nasty as a mudcat thread. If you need RICS or RIBA definitons Steve, send me a PM. I'm gone!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: Bassic Date: 22 Jun 06 - 08:51 AM Ta Ted, glad I wasnt far off. Its amazing the things you have to know to be successful in the world of Flamenco! |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: JohnInKansas Date: 23 Jun 06 - 03:12 AM Wanna get thoroughly confused? Try DoD 5000.4-M, "Cost Analysis Guidance and Procedures," 12/1992. (A quick outline. Download the .pdf (485 KB) for study, or view the html version online.) If one can get into the entire DoD 5000, it actually does have a "system" that can (and occasionally does) work quite well. It seems to work as intended, however, only for those who have at least a half dozen audit agencies performing constant oversight, since ordinary humans do require persistent assistance and corrective instruction to follow all the rules - so they often don't. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: Bert Date: 18 Oct 06 - 12:42 AM Hi protege, I just found this thread while looking for something else. Everyone seems to have missed the most important thing in estimating job costs, which is feedback. Any estimate which is not based on knowledge of similar jobs is little more than a wild guess. Often feedback can be very specific and even personal. When I was estimating I used to find that my own PERSONAL oversight (Due to laziness perhaps) amounted to around five percent of the total job cost. Also local labor practices and costs have to be taken into account. A single man hour estimated for the USA gulf coast can take three hours or more in an undeveloped country. So local and personal feedback is absolutely essential if you want your estimate to be meaningful. |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: Steve Benbows protege Date: 29 Oct 06 - 12:14 PM Thank you for your response. man that was a painful project. I passed by the way but it took hours. |
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Subject: RE: BS: HELP NEEDED. Civil engineering related From: Ebbie Date: 29 Oct 06 - 01:56 PM It always amazes me how hurriedly people read, or at least, I guess that is the explanation. It never was Steve Benbow who asked the questions. It was, according to the thread-starter who later idenified himself as 'Pete', Steve Benbow's protege. I say this so that someday when Steve B does come back online he doesn't get attacked. :) |
