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BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose
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Subject: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Stilly River Sage Date: 17 Jun 06 - 08:12 PM This is from a Chinese online newspaper (which probably accounts for the geographical innacuracy for PEI, or it could have been found in the western side of this eastern province). Is anyone (Mudcatter) making any plans regarding this virus in North America? H5 avian virus found in dead goose in Canada A domestic goose that died in Canada's western Prince Edward Island province earlier this week tested positive for an H5 avian flu virus, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) confirmed Friday. The preliminary test result, made by the Atlantic Veterinary College in provincial capital Charlottetown, showed the goose had an H5 virus. But it is not yet clear whether the virus was the cause of death, Dr. Jim Clark, director of animal health for the CFIA, said in Ottawa. Samples are being flown to the National Microbiology Laboratory in Winnipeg where further testing will be done to confirm that the virus is of the H5 subtype and to type the neuraminidase or N of the virus, Clark said. The goose was part of a mixed backyard flock of chickens, ducks and geese that were being raised for personal consumption. Four geese died Monday, though the owner only submitted one for testing. Clark said all the birds in the flock have been destroyed as a precautionary measure. |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Peace Date: 17 Jun 06 - 08:21 PM "There are nine H5 subtypes, of which H5N1 is one. Only viruses of the H5 and H7 subtypes are known to cause the highly pathogenic form of the disease, the WHO said on its Web site. Not all viruses of the H5 and H7 subtypes are highly pathogenic and not all will cause severe disease in poultry." from the www. |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Ebbie Date: 17 Jun 06 - 08:44 PM Because of being a prime flyway for a great many birds, Alaska is considered a likely location for a flu outbreak, if one is to happen. "They've" been testing at random since before the migration season and they have so far reported no incidence of the virus. |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: GUEST Date: 17 Jun 06 - 09:27 PM Ahem... when I was a boy, we use to burn the dead birds... not exault them to international news media status. Perhaps this is different? Perhaps. But, let us not run amok. The sky, nor the birds, are falling just yet. Give it time, eh? |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Rapparee Date: 17 Jun 06 - 09:38 PM ...there are already clues this avian flu virus isn't likely the highly pathogenic H5N1 virus that has decimated chicken flocks in parts of Asia. That's because the goose was part of a small, free-range flock of chickens, geese and ducks. And while four of 11 geese in the flock died, none of the chickens fell ill. The whole story is here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: SINSULL Date: 18 Jun 06 - 08:17 AM Plans in the US? It is interesting but every time something horrible happens in Iraq or one of Bush's buddies gets caught with his fingers in the cookie jar or worse, up pops BIRD FLU on the news. In addition to duct tape and saran wrap,we are advised to stock up on bottled water, food staples, canned goods etc so that we can avoid contact with people. Guess no one is supposed to go to work either????? It has reached the point that whenever BIRD FLU scares appear on the news, many of us start looking more carefully at Washington. No vaccine available, no room in hospitals, no way out - so we will do what we did during the Swine Flu epidemic until BIRD FLU mutates out of existence. |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Rapparee Date: 18 Jun 06 - 10:10 AM You can't stop it, you can't hide from it, you can't do anything much about it except live with it. Therefore, why worry about it? Yeah, we're putting together a "72-hour kit" but it's because of blizzards, not bird flu. |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Peace Date: 18 Jun 06 - 02:19 PM You get hit with buzzards and bird flu at the same time and you'lllllll be sorrrrrrrry. |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: JohnInKansas Date: 18 Jun 06 - 03:58 PM I'm afraid I have to agree to some extent with Sinsull about the cross-mutating news stories, and also with the assessment that there's little useful that can be(?) done in preparation for the eventual development of a human-transmissible mutation of the bird flu. One thing I have NOT seen being done: The most likely scenario for appearance of a "bird flu" virulent in humans likely will happen when someone already infected with a common, transmissible flu becomes simultaneously infected with "bird flu." The ability of viruses, and even some bacteria, to undergo lateral inheritance of genetic change has been amply demonstrated. This is the expected route by which a species crossover probably will occur. So why do we not have a massive campaign to vaccinate, for common/current/expected flu varieties, all who come in contact with birds that might be carrying bird flu, to reduce the likelihood of this cross exposure? Our "disaster plans" seem to be concentrated on handling a lot of dead bodies, which might be really handy in almost any kind of disaster. If they're actually planning on some other kind of disaster, I suppose the flu thing is a good cover, but... ... (There I go again, suspecting ulterior motives from honest politicians.) John |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Peace Date: 18 Jun 06 - 04:30 PM I think the disaster they are planning is near the next election in 2006. Hope I am wrong. |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Peace Date: 18 Jun 06 - 04:32 PM However, since this is a Canadian Goose, does anyone think Canada will be quarantined? |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: JohnInKansas Date: 18 Jun 06 - 05:47 PM Peace - Obviously if Canada is found to be harboring birds with a dangerous form of bird flu, that will constitute a "germ warfare" (WMD) threat to the US, and an invasion will likely be forthcoming. It will have nothing, of course, to do with Canada being the largest single source of oil imports to the US, or being also the largest single source of refined nuclear fuel for the whole world (full of dangerous enemies of the US). If Canada would just clean up their immigration policies and stop those birds so that they can't infiltrate the lower regions of the continent, a major invasion may be forestalled; although we may still have to send all our stray cats up there as a "peace keeping" force. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Peace Date: 18 Jun 06 - 05:51 PM So nukes are not an option in your opinion, John? Like, I don't want to see Anne of Green Gables' home destroyed just because of Dobsie the Goose getting flu, then flung to fly through the air like an old cast-off sock in the wind. |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: bobad Date: 18 Jun 06 - 05:57 PM Canada is NOT harbouring birds of mass destruction, we have none, period, so don't invade us - please. |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Peace Date: 18 Jun 06 - 06:58 PM Fu#k with Canada and they all fly south. |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Peace Date: 18 Jun 06 - 07:00 PM We mean it! |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Peace Date: 18 Jun 06 - 07:06 PM . . . and then their cousins. |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Peace Date: 18 Jun 06 - 07:08 PM Soon, it will ALL look like this! |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Peace Date: 18 Jun 06 - 07:10 PM Canada's Secret Weapon from Wawa, Ontario: The Leader of the Pack |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Peace Date: 18 Jun 06 - 07:12 PM Five years after . . . . |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Peace Date: 18 Jun 06 - 07:17 PM THE END |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: bobad Date: 18 Jun 06 - 07:43 PM OK, so we might have a few birds of mass defecation, but hell, fertilizer does have it's peaceful purpose too you know. |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Peace Date: 18 Jun 06 - 07:50 PM Mix it with oil and what do ya get? Huh? Huh? That's right. Ya get THIS! |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 18 Jun 06 - 08:28 PM King Tut once tried to boil Batman's goose in oil (Early Batman series). More seriously, brown goose in oil on all sides till golden---. Olive oil is preferred to ---. |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: JohnInKansas Date: 19 Jun 06 - 01:11 AM At least bobad recognized that with respect to geese "WMD" means "Weapons of Mass Defecation"; but that won't stop the Pentagon. I'd suggest that concerned Canadians procure themselves battered hard hats (orange or yellow preferred) and practice carrying LARGE wrenches (spanners) and learn the lingo of the oil riggers so they can pass themselves off as someone useful when the troops arrive. (I can assume that wearing old flannel shirts and worn-out blue jeans comes naturally?) Those with appropriately wide bottoms can of course pretend to be oilfield truckers; but the tanker jockeys do have their own patois that must be learned for "passing" effectively. And Peace - all those photos you so kindly collected are probably all posted on the walls of the DoD planning rooms by now. All the evidence needed once they're leaked to the right media (with the correct spin, of course). Of course it will be inconvenient of all the geese fly south before an infected one is found, but the story about "they hid their WMDs" worked well enough once ... John |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Ebbie Date: 19 Jun 06 - 02:31 AM Well, *I* think the US should build a fence along the border by its own self if Canada won't help. That, plus some National Guardsmen would do the trick. Nah. Too simple. |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: JohnInKansas Date: 19 Jun 06 - 04:04 AM Good idea Ebbie, but Canada Geese have collided with airplanes at close to 30,000 feet altitude. That's a really tall fence to keep them illegal migrants out. Of course we had a local flock that wintered right here in town, estimated at close to 3,000 birds; and we'll have to I.D. and deport all them illegals to get any control of the situation. It may be easier to call them "fertilizer specialists" and give 'em all green cards. (They'd likely not be interested in citizenship, bein' Canadians and all?) John |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Stilly River Sage Date: 19 Jun 06 - 11:22 AM I think it's likely that the West Nile is what we (here in Fort Worth, TX) need to look out for (we live on a creek and have lots of mosquitoes). I do see a Google ad promoting "avian flu kits" at the bottom of this thread. Personally I agree with Sinsull--it looks like we're more in danger of the "Wag the Dog" flu than the avian flu right now. But it isn't fiction, so keeping an eye on reports isn't a bad idea. I just wish the politics didn't pollute the message to such an extent that we could hear what we actually NEED to hear regarding this health threat. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Peace Date: 19 Jun 06 - 11:39 AM Stilly: I didn't mean to denigrate what you posted. Either of the bad flus that can transmit to people are no joke at all. Like most Canadians, I am waiting for the results because they will have repercussions (remember Mad Cow Disease, SAR). Both resulted in terrible damage to Canada's economy, and unfortunately, the damage was done in part by the US's response to us because we hadn't joined the "Let's All Invade Iraq" coalition this time 'round. However, we'll know Tuesday or so. |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Metchosin Date: 19 Jun 06 - 12:06 PM This is not particularly big news to Canadians on the west coast. In February 2004, a strain of avian influenza, H7N3 was found in poulty and ducks in the Fraser Valley. This area is on the major migration route and free range poultry is generally considered more at risk, because the virus in endemic in most wild geese and ducks, sharing the same farmland as the poultry industry. The province ordered more than 17 million birds killed. It took about six months for the province's poultry to be declared free of avian flu. The outbreak was devastating to the industry here. There were also two documented cases in people, who showed mild influenza illness and eye infections who worked on the clean up at the time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Metchosin Date: 19 Jun 06 - 12:09 PM ......guess some of the news has trouble getting over the Rockies at times to the rest of Canada. Just where are them damned passenger pigeons when you need them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Metchosin Date: 19 Jun 06 - 12:30 PM And if anyone is interested, the source of these WMDs is Alaska and.....horrors! even Russia. The Fraser River estuary is a vital point on the bird migration route known as the Pacific Flyway. It provides a rest and stopover between California and Alaska and a wintering ground for at least 100,000 waterfowl. At the peak of migration, up to 180,000 ducks and geese fly into the Fraser delta in a single day. The Fraser estuary and Boundary Bay together form the largest winter waterfowl resting area on the west coast of North America. And it is also BC's major poutry producing area. |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Metchosin Date: 19 Jun 06 - 12:47 PM and speaking of home grown WMDs, in 2004, Mexico banned poultry from Texas when H5N2 was discovered in commercial birds in that state. |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: gnu Date: 19 Jun 06 - 04:17 PM There are no GMD in Canada. They are kind, lovable and as gentle as kittens. Trust me... pet one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: JohnInKansas Date: 19 Jun 06 - 05:20 PM gnu - GMD = Goats of Mellow Disposition? (hard to tell from here) or GMD = Geese of Moderate Defecation? (never heard of one, so you probably ain't got 'em.) ??? "gnu" starts with a "G" too, but I was purty shur there was at least one of 'em up there. I think most in the US still consider Canada a "friendly nation" but they can be danged hard for some of us to understand at times. The most recent find appears to be isolated, and probably not one of the dangerous flu strains. It is reassuring that the report appeared promptly, and the indication that there is an attitude of "watchfulness" is a good thing. One of the arguments for the likelihood of a crossover and widespread infection by a bird flu mutant dangerous to humans is the rather large number of cases of the "previously rare(?)" infection in birds, reported in a few places; and of course the several human infections that have been reported. A problem is that we don't seem to really know how rare the infection in birds has been, since it wasn't closely monitored until human infections (and deaths) were identified. We also don't have much information on human infections before any such could be linked to the birds. Some of our experts are probably working on these questions, and better understanding may (or not) help to refine the odds on the crossover. Even if the statistics are improved, it's still a "chance event" so no specific date when it will happen can be predicted. There is no question that a couple of viral strains exist for which most humans would have no prior immunity, and the probability that those forms will eventually cross with similar ones that are easily transmissible can be easily, and apparently accurately, calculated. It does not seem to be an exaggeration to say that it WILL HAPPEN. Does anyone know how the 180,000 per day1 big bird movement compares to daily international airline traffic? 1 An arbitrary number from above, just to suggest the comparison. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Metchosin Date: 19 Jun 06 - 06:09 PM JohnInKansas, it would appear that the presence of influenza virus in wild birds has been known since 1961. "The first isolation of influenza virus from feral birds was in 1961 from common terns (Sterna hirundo) in South Africa (4), but it was not until the mid-1970s that any systematic investigation of influenza in feral birds was undertaken. These revealed the enormous pools of influenza viruses now known to be present in the wild bird population." Further studies were done in the 80's. "Virus isolations from other wild birds have been completely overshadowed by the number, variety and widespread distribution of influenza viruses in waterfowl, Order Anseriformes. In the surveys listed by Stallknecht and Shane (5) a total of 21,318 samples from all species resulted in the isolation of 2,317 (10.9%) viruses. Of these samples 14,303 were from birds of the Order Anseriformes and yielded 2,173 (15.2%) isolates. The next highest isolation rates were 2.9% and 2.2% from the Passeriformes and Charadriiformes and the overall isolation rate from all birds other than ducks and geese was 2.1%" |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: JohnInKansas Date: 19 Jun 06 - 08:26 PM Metchosin - The critical thing is that it's one or two particular virus strains that have been found capable of infecting humans, and that are sometimes deadly when they do. (See Peace's post at 17 Jun 06 - 08:21 PM.) The presence of viruses, and even of flu viruses, in birds has been well established; but the records don't indicate whether the particular varieties of recent concern were always common, or have increased their presence recently. In most cases with older surveys the methods were not available to make detailed determination of subtypes of the viruses found. In the latest case the virus found is probably an H5(?) but the N-type hasn't been determined yet. Surveillance of migrating bird populations hasn't found very many affected with the H5 and H7 varieties of concern, which some take to mean that those particular kinds have not been widespread. This may (or may not) mean that the migratory birds have some immunity, and don't get infected easily(?) Or it could mean they haven't been exposed, have little immunity, and it could spread rapidly within wild flocks once picked up in one of them. The assumption has been that the infection can spread rapidly within domestic flocks, and "whole flock extermination" has been used. Large numbers of birds killed doesn't necessarily mean large numbers infected, so the published reports of huge numbers of dead birds don't really tell one very much. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Rapparee Date: 20 Jun 06 - 12:01 AM The answer is in song! Nuke 'em all, Nuke 'em all, Nuke the long and the short and the tall, Nuke the birds and nuke the wolves, Nuke the whales and nuke the snails, Nuke 'em all, Nuke 'em all.... I learned that from a guy named George. |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: gnu Date: 20 Jun 06 - 12:11 AM GMD.... Geese of Mass Destruction... I thought we were talking about geese. Sorry for the confusion. Honk if you gotta honk. Or Tonk if you gotta song. |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Rapparee Date: 20 Jun 06 - 12:21 AM Hey, our secret plan to bring Canada to its knees is to send all of them Canada geese back!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: JohnInKansas Date: 20 Jun 06 - 01:43 AM Rap - We (or some of us at least) have been trying to discourage people from feeding the d#$%! things so they will go back north, at least for the summer. But people (who don't hang around to clean up after them) think they're just so cute!. We need a few more black bears in the neighborhood, to let 'em feed them cute little buggers... (Gene pool improvement?) Unfortunately when wild critters mix with populations of idiots, the critters are always the ones to get messed up. As when people put out bird feeders in the fall, 'cause "everybody's doing it;" but then they neglect putting out the feed when it gets cold enough to kill the birds that postponed migration. .... (insert interminable series of mumbles ... and #@$!) John |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Metchosin Date: 20 Jun 06 - 03:14 AM JohnInKansas, I'm well aware that H5 and H7 are the ones that are of concern, in particular H5N1. There has been some previous discussion on other threads including this one. The outbreaks here in BC and Texas I believe were H5N2 and you are correct, large numbers of birds slaughtered, does not mean large numbers infected. It is usually a case of government overkill with the mind that it is better to be safe than sorry on a number of levels. The article I quoted from in one of my previous posts was A Review of Avian Influenza which includes reported HPAI isolates from poultry since1959. It is interesting to note that H5N1 was reported in the UK in 1959 and again in 1991 before it was reported in Hong Kong in 1997. It would seem that H5N1 has been reported in our domestic birds for almost 50 years. By the article, I would assume that saved samples probably were reprocessed to determine subtype at a later date. I believe that is what was hoped for with the unearthing of human bodies buried in Iceland who were victims of the Spanish Flu. Before Worrying Over Avian Flu Know Your Viruses has some good information. And lets hope the good people of Ohio don't find any H5N1 in something such as whooping cranes instead of ducks and chickens or it may be bye bye birdie and not by natural causes. Here is more than one would ever care to know about Bird Flu. |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Donuel Date: 20 Jun 06 - 08:51 AM no the sky is not not falling. the birds are falling from the sky. The CDC issued a preparedness report months ago to stock non perishable foods and water to last a minimum of two weeks and a maximum of 6 months. |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: SINSULL Date: 20 Jun 06 - 09:10 AM From what I can gather, this six month figure is based on an expectation that sick workers will not be able to pack and ship critical food supplies. There will be shortages. I too keep a week's supply of critical items - mainly cat food - on hand in case of a lizzard, hurricane, ice storm, whatever. |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: gnu Date: 20 Jun 06 - 09:19 AM b yw |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Peace Date: 07 Jul 06 - 08:01 PM This was on the www July 5, 2006, FYI. OTTAWA (Reuters) - Final tests on a backyard flock suspected of having bird flu found no evidence of the H5 virus, Canada's food inspection agency said on Wednesday, lifting a quarantine placed on the noncommercial farm last month. "All birds tested negative on serological and virological tests ... The testing is now complete," the Canadian Food Inspection Agency said in a statement. Fears of an outbreak of the highly pathogenic strain of bird flu began in mid-June when preliminary tests on a dead gosling from the flock in tiny Prince Edward Island found evidence of the potentially highly-pathogenic H5 subtype. However, a second round of tests on the flock found no additional evidence of the H5 virus. The final tests attempted to grow the virus from samples from the affected gosling to gather more information about the strain, but those tests also turned up "no further evidence of the virus," the CFIA said. The H5N1 avian flu virus has killed 131 people in 9 countries but not all H5 viruses are highly pathogenic. Canada has had low pathogenic bird flu outbreaks in the past. |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Peace Date: 07 Jul 06 - 08:22 PM I hope word of this gets to Washington. It means we don't have to be nuked. |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Peace Date: 07 Jul 06 - 08:23 PM Well, I think it's good news. |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: number 6 Date: 07 Jul 06 - 10:22 PM I hope they don't nuke us before I get my backyard bombshelter completed Peace. Ordered a hell of a lot of concrete and rebar today for it. Start digging the foundation tomorrow. Decided to go with my own design and order the components a la carte rather than go with the Haliburton package. sIx |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Peace Date: 07 Jul 06 - 10:36 PM Cheapskate. What will you save? Halliburton probably coulda done it--bare bones (no pun intended) for what...well, at Iraq prices, maybe $71,000,000? What's it gonna cost you? $3,429.16? BUT, Halliburton probably coulda save you GST at an additional 6%. See? Try to cut corners and where's it getcha? |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: number 6 Date: 07 Jul 06 - 10:43 PM It all comes down to the import duty taxes Peace ..... it certainly would have been a lot simpler going the Haliburton route ... you know, just ordering the model of your choice off their glossy brochure ... but, here I am spending my afternoons piecemealing parts and material over at the contracter's booth at my local Home Depot. sIx |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Peace Date: 07 Jul 06 - 10:50 PM Oh. BUT, you aren't going to get the Housekeeping Seal of Approval from Home Depot. |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Peace Date: 07 Jul 06 - 10:52 PM Just the link for you! |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: number 6 Date: 07 Jul 06 - 11:00 PM Thanks Peace ... that link was inofrmative ... I would have completely forgotten about the ventilation and filtered air intake pipes if you hadn't posted it. sIx |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Peace Date: 07 Jul 06 - 11:31 PM Don't forget to take beer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: gnu Date: 08 Jul 06 - 08:07 PM TAKE beer? If one is paranoid, one should start drinking immediately. |
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Subject: RE: BS: H5 avian virus found in Canadian goose From: Peace Date: 08 Jul 06 - 08:17 PM That's true. But if he does that he'll really screw up his bomb shelter and maybe end up with something that looks like this. Too much beer can do that. Before beer. After beer. Y'understan'? |
