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What does your band charge (in U.S)
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Subject: What does your band charge (in U.S) From: GutBucketeer Date: 15 Jun 06 - 11:58 AM My band members and I are in the middle of a debate on what are reasonable rates to charge to play. My band, The All New Genetically Altered Jug Band, has 4 members. We play anything from jug band music (obviously), to novelty tunes, to Jazz standards from the 20s and 30s. One member thinks that we should never ask for less than $600 for a 2 set gig (what he states as Union Scale). Other members will play as long as its FUN and our expenses are covered (i.e. gas, food, drink, tips). What does your band charge for a 2 45 minute set gig? Does it vary by the size or type of venue of the affair (i.e. more for 100+ people, or country clubs/ball rooms). Do they charge more for weddings? What is a reasonable rate to ask a bar or restaurant to pay? Do you usually get a drink/food tab? If so how much? Do you have set charges, or do you "negotiate" each time? JAB P.S. I tried to see if there had already been a discussion on this topic. I suspect there has been, but I couldn't figure out a query that would bring it up. |
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Subject: RE: What does your band charge (in U.S) From: Clinton Hammond Date: 15 Jun 06 - 12:30 PM "What does your band charge for a 2 45 minute set gig?" A gig like that is hardly worth loading the gear for... around here bands play from 9PM-1AM.... and the members get 150 each.... "Do they charge more for weddings?" Yes.... get what you can.... start at 3 grand and haggle from there.... "Do you usually get a drink/food tab? If so how much?" Yes... all of it.... |
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Subject: RE: What does your band charge (in U.S) From: open mike Date: 15 Jun 06 - 12:43 PM also--if you have recordings request the opportunity to sell them. some venues take a percentage of sales (I know a university that does) as a folk society that produces concerts we often negotiate prices factoring in the ticket sales....a guarnateed amount (from 300-600 usually) and if we get any more than that we arrage to give a percentage to the performer. we have expenses of advertising, hall rental, sound system rental (as some travelling bands would rather not haul equipment) and other expenses indirectly related to the band/event. This all may be limited by the population of the area where you are, the size of the potential audience and what other events are scheduled at that time. Unless you are dues-paying union members, the union rates are out of range. |
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Subject: RE: What does your band charge (in U.S) From: Ebbie Date: 15 Jun 06 - 12:54 PM Is that in Canadian money, Clinton? Timewise, I don't see a whole lot of difference between two 45-minute sets or one 4-hour set. If anything, it seems to me that the two 45 minute sets should pay a bit more, simply because they are on the premises longer for a split show. In Juneau it varies. I know one bluegrass gig that pays each member $150 plus all ingestibles. I know another one that runs a $150 cumulative drink limit (no food) on the band but pays a 5-piece band $600 for 9:00 to 1:00. Contra dances are different. I've played them for $50. And I've played them for a share of the gate. |
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Subject: RE: What does your band charge (in U.S) From: Clinton Hammond Date: 15 Jun 06 - 01:05 PM We'll take American money at par.... "two 45-minute sets" I find that a 45 minute set isn't worth getting on stage for..... by the time you get into the groove, it's over.... I often play from 9:30-11:30 straight through... break till 12.... play 12-1..... |
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Subject: RE: What does your band charge (in U.S) From: Dave Ruch Date: 15 Jun 06 - 01:17 PM Every situation is different, and it sounds like internally, you have some differences that will make it hard for you to get what some of you think you deserve. When you have some guys doing it for fun, and others who are sticklers about the pay, chances are you will settle somewhere in the middle, in my experience. Weddings are always more of a headache in terms of planning, phone calls from the bride, groom, aunts & uncles, mothers and fathers, last minute changes in plan, etc. Largely because of that, the rates tend to be at least double for just about every vendor (photographer, videographer, music,etc). You will earn it in most cases. One thing I have found out over the past 15 years of doing this for my living is that it is OK to say "no" if the money doesn't work for you (I'm talking about general public gigs such as community concerts, summertime outdoor events, etc). If you are good at what you do, and you are able to convey that to people either through your reputation or your marketing materials or hopefully both, the buyer will respect your price even if they can't meet it, and you may be surprised to find out 12-24 months later that they have found a way to pay you what you are asking. |
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Subject: RE: What does your band charge (in U.S) From: GUEST,DonMeixner Date: 15 Jun 06 - 01:25 PM I could copy Clinton's last post and change the name and it would be a perfect fit for my band. We do 4 hours with two breaks. First set is 2 hours. We grab thirty minutes and play out the night. Within 40 miles of Syracuse NY we get $100.00 per man and $50.00 for transport. WE drink mostly coffee and sodas, maybe a pint in the last set for two of us. Beyond 40 miles the price becomes negotiable but we usually add another $20.00 per man and $20.00 for transport. Weddings are another story. The same rules apply but we start at $125.00 per man. Out of state is even more of negotiation. We have some favorite short hour close to home gigs that are steady that we do for $300.00 and a nice meal afterwards. We sell our CDs and we donate tons of time and Discs for benefits. Charge what you want, when no one hires you, look at the fee and reconsider. Best advice I have. Don |
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Subject: RE: What does your band charge (in U.S) From: Clinton Hammond Date: 15 Jun 06 - 01:27 PM What Don said Charge what you want, when no one hires you, look at the fee and reconsider. |
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Subject: RE: What does your band charge (in U.S) From: GutBucketeer Date: 15 Jun 06 - 01:43 PM Thanks for all of the great advice - Keep it coming. The only reason I used "2 45 minute sets" is that it seemed to be a standard point of reference for parties, etc. It seems that we are in the right ball park for private parties. Last weekend we got $150 a person for 2 hours in the afternoon (The Marriot family in Potomac Maryland. It was a BIG house). However, I know we have lost at least 2 gigs when we quoted that rate. I think we scared them off. What we figured out is how to keep the door open for negotiation. :-) The only bar we have played regularly was on Sunday Afternoons. We got some food and what was put in the tip jar. It ended up costing us money after we tipped the waitress and the bar wouldn't give us an evening slot. So we quit playing there. JAB |
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Subject: RE: What does your band charge (in U.S) From: Clinton Hammond Date: 15 Jun 06 - 01:45 PM You tip the waitress?? SHE should be tipping YOU! |
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Subject: RE: What does your band charge (in U.S) From: open mike Date: 15 Jun 06 - 01:56 PM waitresses typically work for less than minimum wage and often walk the equivalent of miles (or kilometers) every day. why would you think she owes you any thing?! i remember one band that played a song "tip your waitress she walked miles for you" that's in the co-operative spirit |
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Subject: RE: What does your band charge (in U.S) From: Clinton Hammond Date: 15 Jun 06 - 02:04 PM "why would you think she owes you any thing?!" If, as an entertainer, you are doing YOUR job, keeping people in the bar, skulling pints and tossing HER tips, why oh why would YOU also need to tip her???? "walk the equivalent of miles every day" People should get tipped just for doing their job?????? |
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Subject: RE: What does your band charge (in U.S) From: GUEST,maryrrf Date: 15 Jun 06 - 02:12 PM When they ask your fee, you can quote a figure and say something like "We usually get "x" amount but we'll work with the client's budget if we can". Or, ask them "What is your budget" and then that gives you an idea. That lets them know you're open to reasonable negotiations. Re: Tipping the waitress - maybe tipping isn't the custom in Canada, but in the US if the waitress brings you drinks, food, etc. they should be tipped. Tips are considered part of a waiter/waitress' pay - they don't make much of a base salary. |
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Subject: RE: What does your band charge (in U.S) From: Clinton Hammond Date: 15 Jun 06 - 02:16 PM Tipping is absolutely a 'custom' in Canada.... But not by the 'band'..... "Tips are considered part of a waiter/waitress' pay" Sounds like you're endorsing professional begging..... whatever.... let's not derail this thread any further.... if anyone wants to keep talking about tipping, start a new thread...... I shan't..... |
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Subject: RE: What does your band charge (in U.S) From: GUEST,Texas Guest Date: 15 Jun 06 - 02:17 PM Great thread here - let's keep it up. Folks down here like to guard any information about how much they charge as if you just asked them to give up the amount they quote you. Personally, I think they don't want to tell you because they're afraid you'll undercut them. The truth is that if everyone is up front about what they're getting out of a particular pub, festival or whatever - you can go in with an idea of the range and not under-bid yourself to a short pay or over bid yourself out of a slot; further, the pub owner won't then be able to keep coming back to the cheapest act because everyone's about the same. I think that when players are open with each other about such things then we all make out better in the long run. I know I'm not out to undercut anybody but if I go into a pub for two-hundred a night and find out that I could have just as easily been paid two-fifty or three hundred - well, that's a heart breaker, especially on the road. Cheers. |
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Subject: RE: What does your band charge (in U.S) From: jimmyt Date: 15 Jun 06 - 02:28 PM It may be a custom in Canada, but I can tell you the waitresses at the resturants along the interstate are not fighting for the Canadian cars that arrive on their way to Florida! grin. Seriously, I think waitresses must be paid better in Canada because the tipping seems to be dramatically different. I also see no reason why you would not tip the wiatress if you are in the band. If she brings you a drink, she brings you a drink. No matter if you are in the band or not. Again, you are not required to tip her if you are in the band, but it seems that you aren't ever required to tip, patron or band mamber. Tipping is an effort to say, " hey, I appreciate your efforts, I thank you for your service." If you don't feel that way, by all means don't tip. BUt if someone else feels like tipping, don't pass judgment on them. I have seen many a waitress put a buck or two in the tip jar as well. Bottom lone seems to be do what you feel like doing. |
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Subject: RE: What does your band charge (in U.S) From: Clinton Hammond Date: 15 Jun 06 - 02:30 PM if anyone wants to keep talking about tipping, start a new thread...... "That lets them know you're open to reasonable negotiations" A very important point! |
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Subject: RE: What does your band charge (in U.S) From: BuckMulligan Date: 15 Jun 06 - 03:15 PM I'm wondering why it takes Clinton 45 minutes to get in a groove... (only kidding, not serious). |
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Subject: RE: What does your band charge (in U.S) From: Clinton Hammond Date: 15 Jun 06 - 03:43 PM When it's this big, ya gotta work it in slow so you don't hurt nobody! :-P LOL |
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Subject: RE: What does your band charge (in U.S) From: Ebbie Date: 15 Jun 06 - 05:07 PM Whoa! :) |
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Subject: RE: What does your band charge (in U.S) From: Sorcha Date: 15 Jun 06 - 05:13 PM $45/hr for however many show up, but we are Non Profit. |
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Subject: RE: What does your band charge (in U.S) From: Barry Finn Date: 15 Jun 06 - 10:35 PM What would be an acceptable rate to charge when performing at an overnight festival? Barry |
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Subject: RE: What does your band charge (in U.S) From: GutBucketeer Date: 16 Jun 06 - 12:16 PM When I've gone more than 2 hours away, they have always provided some sort of lodging, then pretty much the same $ for the actual performance. |
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Subject: RE: What does your band charge (in U.S) From: tarheel Date: 16 Jun 06 - 01:09 PM 45 minute gigs are the Norm here...for festivals,theaters,u name it!...even when the big guys come in(grand ole opry folks) it's still a 45 minute gig! here around Mt.Airy,N.C., and Galax,Va., it's still a 45 minute gig and that's all the time you get or the man in charge starts waving you off or giving you 1 or 2 fingers ,meaning one more song or 2 more songs... even the gigs on saturday nights at the Andy Griffith Playhouse in Mt.Airy,are 45 minutes and it's put on by the Surry Arts Council, and the pay you a flat $100.00 ,no matter how many members in your band or how far you had to drive to get there! $100.00 is it! also,if you are playing for a dance somewhere...you take a break after 45 minutes and then one more 45 minute dance tunes and they roll up the floors and its time to go home! if two groups are performing for a dance,the limit is still 45 minutes for 2 sets each... the pay is...well,whatever yiou can get from them because most are trying to raise money for an organization or whatever... tar... |
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Subject: RE: What does your band charge (in U.S) From: BuckMulligan Date: 16 Jun 06 - 08:25 PM Apparently there are nearly as many notions of "gig" as there are of "folk" I used to have a hard time covering up my "holy shit you're gonna let me play and sing and pay me TOO????" attitude. |
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Subject: RE: What does your band charge (in U.S) From: M.Ted Date: 17 Jun 06 - 01:09 AM To a great degree, people believe that the more they have pay you, the better you are. You do have to be aware of what the market will bear, but around here, at least, the market will bear quite a lot. I attended a Bar Mitzvah in Rockville where the DJ charged the lucky parents 10k, and they felt like they were lucky to get him. He did have his own sound system, and did a lot of amazingly tacky things with the celebrants-but then, most performers have their own act-- |
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Subject: RE: What does your band charge (in U.S) From: GUEST,Will Date: 17 Jun 06 - 04:48 AM I played for a band here in Phoenix and the gigs were your standard bar gig. We played seven nights a week and sometimes twelve shows a week. Unless it was a festival or something out of the ordinary I got 50 bucks a show. There were three of us in the band. We would play three 45 minute sets and it was pretty rough going but, I got a lot better at drums. I don't do it any more but still am sort of hoping to again soon. The festivals paid a lot more to the leader of the band, but i don't think i ever got away with more than 150 in a night. free food and drinks(non-alcoholic) were standard. the cd's is where the money comes from, starting at 12 bucks and working down for the people who can't/won''t pay it. as you can see, i didn't make a lot. the band leader, however, drove a bmw and had a 5 bedroom house. some nights i know, if there was no crowd he would walk with maybe 25 bucks. but on a slamming night, he could walk with 3,4,5 hundred. we got 50, always and maybe some tips. |
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Subject: RE: What does your band charge (in U.S) From: tarheel Date: 17 Jun 06 - 01:04 PM then,there are the festivals where you performed and then afterwards,had to track down the promoter to get your money,,, we've played big festivals and then told afterwards that the promoter takes a vacation for a week and then comes back,counts up the monies,takes out his or her share and gives the sponsoring folks their share and,,,if there is any left, you might get a few bucks out of it!!! honest folks..we performed at the LEXINGTON BARBECUE FESTIVAL here a few years ago(and it draws some of the largest crowds around anywhere) and that's the hassle we went through trying to collect our fee! another time we tracked down the promoter after the gig and found her hiding in a closet in the town hall...needless to say,i took the money from her hand and ran... nuff said! tarheel |
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Subject: RE: What does your band charge (in U.S) From: Suffet Date: 17 Jun 06 - 01:31 PM Greetings: Let me turn that around and tell you how much we pay. And by "we" I mean the Peoples' Voice Cafe, a collectively run performance space in New York City. The PVC is not strictly a folk club, although most of our acts would probably fall under the category of folk music in a broad sense. Let me cut to the chase. We split the gate 60:40, with the performers getting the 60 and the house getting the 40. We usually present two acts per show (nearly every Saturday night from September through May), each doing a one-hour set. So each act typically gets 30 percent of the gate. When we have only one act, usually a better known performer such as Eric Andersen or Carolyn Hester, that person gets the entire 60 percent share. Our admission is a suggested contribution: $9 for PVC members and $12 for non-members, but people can pay more or less if they so choose. We turn no one away for lack of money, although we strongly urge everyone to contribute something. Anyone performing at the Peoples' Voice Cafe understands this policy, and most people attending our shows do in fact pay the $9 or $12. We also accept Theater Development Fund vouchers, for which we receive $8.50 each. Our performers keep everything they take in from selling CDs, songbooks, T-shirts, etc. The PVC does not take a cut, although we do sell some items of our own, including items donated by past performers, for which we keep whatever we get. We also keep whatever we get from selling snacks (mostly baked goods) and beverages (coffee, tea, fruit juice). --- Steve |
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Subject: RE: What does your band charge (in U.S) From: Willie-O Date: 17 Jun 06 - 01:52 PM "another time we tracked down the promoter after the gig and found her hiding in a closet in the town hall..." very enterprising tarheel, I applaud your initiative. Depressing how dodgy otherwise decent people can get after the show if you have to bring up the tacky subject of payment. Just for the record, we're in Canada and if we're getting served by a waitress we make sure to tip her. (or him). He's welcome to hold it but Clinton's describing a Clinton viewpoint, not a Canadian one. Why? Cause it's polite to do so and we want the staff to like us! As to what we charge, first, we DON'T charge by the hour, the set, or specifically by the number of players. Whether we're playing one set or four, that's our gig for that evening, travel and equipment expenses are the same, and all that practice, organizational and promotion time...you know the story. Plus, loading, setup and teardown are the same jobs no matter how long you have played for in between. We have a four-piece pub & party-style Celtic folk-rock band that just started (officially) this year, so we don't have much of a name to point to yet. We charge $400-600 (usually towards the lower end of that unless the venue looks particularly generous), plus add a flat $75 if we are providing the PA and running it ourselves. If we happened to be a three-piece band on a given evening, the rate wouldn't change. We don't charge more for 3 or 4 sets in a pub, because they have budgets and scheduled hours for live entertainment. If you want the gig you have to play along. When we get a one-or-two-set gig, that's bonus. Bottom lines: pubs are businesses, are trying to make a profit. Speical events are trying to make something happen just this once, or once a year, so are more generous. You have to accommodate both to gig regularly. As I mentioned, we are just starting out so likely after a couple of years and more local exposure we will be charging higher rates when feasible. We generally ask for and receive some comp beverages and food--2 beers per player and a couple trays of whatever's good to eat. (I have no idea how a bluegrass band can drink a $150 tab and still be able to play. I can hardly play bluegrass stone sober.) W-O |
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Subject: RE: What does your band charge (in U.S) From: GUEST,DonMeixner Date: 18 Jun 06 - 12:20 AM I didn't mention that we view the real work is the travel, the set up, and the tear down. The time on task is not a part of the equation until we go past four hours. Prices may go up or down based on the venue, purpose and place for the job. But generally we are in Willie's ball park price wise. I'm with Willie here. A budget busting bar tab should be something out of "The Bluesbrothers". Anyone who drinks enough to swap a pay for a bar bill is unprofessional and not long for the business. And they make work tough on us who enjoy a pint or even a small beer in the last set. Worse they give all working musicians a bad name. And yes you do tip the waitresses. They bring you a roll with butter on it when your voice is cracking, make sure the Roast Beef samich has horse radish instead of mustard, and sneak the extra shrimp in cocktail because you do leave a fiver per man. And also because they become friends over time and they work as hard as you do trying to please the same group of Duffs as are you. Don |
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Subject: RE: What does your band charge (in U.S) From: GutBucketeer Date: 18 Jun 06 - 09:25 PM A lot of good advice here. Thanks everyone. It's funny, but the more I'm around "serious" musicians I find that they rarely drink much before, or during their perforances, and afterwards, usually very lightly. I'm also surprised how many have given up drinking all together. Our bar tab therefore usually consists of cokes, a beer or two, and FOOD (our bellies are well supported) :-) JAB |
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Subject: RE: What does your band charge (in U.S) From: M.Ted Date: 18 Jun 06 - 10:49 PM Serious performers concentrate on doing the best job that they can--whatever it takes--irrespective of what they are getting paid--Doing a good job is what gets you good jobs. I been hanging with some rarified theatrical talent lately, and finally realized what I was doing wrong all those years--I left too much to chance--it takes a lot more preparation than I learned how to do-- |
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Subject: RE: What does your band charge (in U.S) From: Greg B Date: 19 Jun 06 - 11:18 AM Barry...on fees for overnight festivals...doesn't it depend on how friendly the waiteresses are? |
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