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Subject: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: GUEST Date: 05 May 03 - 10:19 AM Here is the story from CNN http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/05/05/mccarthy.hearings.ap/ There doesn't seem to be much news online about it yet. Has anyone heard/read any news reports about this? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: catspaw49 Date: 05 May 03 - 10:32 AM I'd love to read them. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: Greg F. Date: 05 May 03 - 12:33 PM No need, 'Spaw!- you can experience it first hand! Same thing is happening right now with Rumsfeld, Ashcroft et.al. Who says history doesn't repeat on you (like hot peppers, perhaps?) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: Bobert Date: 05 May 03 - 06:04 PM Yeah, I'd like Tim Robbins take on this event. Oh yeah, he's blackballed. Or Susan Surandon's? Oh yeah, she's blackballed too. How about Sean Penn's? Blackballed. Jessica Lange?, etc, etc... Welcome to John Ashcroft's America... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: Bobert Date: 05 May 03 - 06:06 PM Almost forgot. Today is *Kent State Day*... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: GUEST Date: 05 May 03 - 06:07 PM OK, here is a link to NPR's report on the story, which has links to the actual transcripts, to the questioning of Langston Hughes and Aaron Copland. Story on release of McCarthy hearings transcripts They are also doing another story, as I type, on the 70th anniversary of the Nazi book burnings. A lot of relevance to what is going on today. Think Dixie Chick CD burnings, the death threats against them and other anti-war celebrities, and you can't escape the sense of deja vu. Nazi book burning story |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: DougR Date: 05 May 03 - 06:12 PM So? McCarthy was a screwball! DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: Greg F. Date: 05 May 03 - 06:17 PM And McCarthy did it all by himself? Idiotic. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: Big Mick Date: 05 May 03 - 06:23 PM So Doug......what does that say about all of those lovely conservatives that followed him? And what does it say about those folks, Democrats and Republicans, who ruined the lives of anyone, especially folk singers, actors, and other members of the artistic community? Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 05 May 03 - 06:37 PM No, Doug, McCarthy wasn't a screwball. Curly, Moe and Larry were screwballs. McCarthy was a megalomaniac who attained a position of considerable power and, then, blatantly abused it by wreaking havoc upon the lives of some of the most creative people in the U.S. All Curly, Moe and Larry ever did was squirt seltzer at each other. Bruce |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: Mark Clark Date: 05 May 03 - 06:39 PM Actually, McCarthy got the idea from another bunch of dangerous folks, The House Un-American Activities Committee whose membership included Richard Nixon, a guy who seems pretty tame these days compared to current regime. - Mark |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: Greg F. Date: 05 May 03 - 06:49 PM Nixon was just a toadie and an asslicker for McCarthy, Mark. Now Martin Dies, on the other hand, would be a worthy BuShite stalwart, were he still with us (which thankfully he is not). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: Bobert Date: 05 May 03 - 07:19 PM Okay, so John Ashcroft is a screwball. Anyone ever wonder ahhhh, why screwballs get their hands on power? Well, I do. Might of fact, I can't think of any US administartion with so many screwballs. Yeah, Polk was screwball but he didn't have a Donnis Rumsfeld. And Teddy Roosevelt was a total screwball but he didn't have Richard Perle. And Woodrow "War" Wilson was a screwball but didn't have John Ashcroft of Dick Cheney. Man, this is the *Screwball Dream Team*... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: GUEST Date: 05 May 03 - 08:04 PM Roy Cohn reminds me of Karl Rove. And it is crucial that we remember what else was happening at the same time. People paid an incredible price for these right wing excesses. Rosenberg Trial |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: GUEST Date: 05 May 03 - 08:18 PM And BTW, this June will mark the 50th anniversary of the Rosenbergs' execution. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: DougR Date: 06 May 03 - 01:47 AM Gee! Some of you liberals are getting mighty touchy. Is that a sign Winter is over? McCarthy did abuse his power. No doubt about it. He was also a drunkard I believe. He was also censored by the U. S. Senate. He was not a nice guy. He was also a conservative. Not all conservatives are nice guys I guess, as all liberals are! That better Mick? DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: GUEST,Clint Keller Date: 06 May 03 - 03:57 AM |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: GUEST,Clint Keller Date: 06 May 03 - 04:41 AM Sorry about that -- don't know what I hit. Anyway, DougR got me to thinking; are there liberals that would compare to McCarthy and/or the Un-American Activities Committee? This is a serious question. Huey Long, for instance was a rotten guy, but I don't know that he qualifies as either a liberal or a conservative; seems to have been more of a plain conman & crook to me. It seems to me that the real persecutors, the ones who want to put a crimp in the Bill of Rights are likely to be right wing conservatives. Like Hoover, who sent the army after the WWI veteran bonus marchers. Like whoever was responsible for the Ludlow Massacre. While lot of liberal legislators voted for the Patriot Act, I believe it was originated by conservatives. It seems to me that the liberal bad guys commit different kinds of villainy than the conservative bad guys. Liberal rotters get illicit sex in the oval office, conservative rotters imprison US citizens without trial. But I'm not an expert on American history, & am open to correction. And please don't ask me to define "liberal" & "conservative." We all know whether Wellstone or Gingrich was the liberal. clint |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: ard mhacha Date: 06 May 03 - 06:46 AM Senate historian Donald Ritchie who assembled the volumes said " Anybody who stood up to McCarthy in closed session and did so articulately, tended not to get called up into public session, McCarthy was only interested in the people he could browbeat publicly". Now wouldn`t any of the above, Martin Sheene, Tim Robbins, etc, have a field day if Bush was the inquisitor. Ard Mhacha. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: GUEST Date: 06 May 03 - 08:22 AM I wish Martin Sheen would run for president as a Democrat. After watching the debate last weekend, which was just depressing, I'd vote for him in an instant. Why do you suppose it is that the right wing can have a pompous idiot Hollywood president, but for some reason, the Hollywood Democrats are evil incarnate, and supposed to shut their mouths? No double standard there, eh? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: katlaughing Date: 06 May 03 - 08:58 AM Ard, that's one I'd love to see! **BG** No contest for the pea-brain...he'd be plumb pitiful! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: DougR Date: 06 May 03 - 04:14 PM I'd love to see Martin Sheen run for president too! If not him, how about Tim Robbins? Susan Sarandan? Mike Farrell? If all of you Bush haters would band together and back just one of them, you might get a candidate! Certainly the current band of Democrat candidates don't have a prayer against Bush next election. Just my opinion of course. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: Charley Noble Date: 06 May 03 - 05:51 PM I'll be interested to see what Burl Ives actually said in closed session that did so much damage to his fellow singers: Pete Seeger, Richard Dyer-Bennet, Tony Kraber, to name a few. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: MarkS Date: 06 May 03 - 08:58 PM I suspect the current differences between liberal and conservative were quite a lot different in the McCarthy era. Evidenced by the curiosity that both Roy Cohn and Bobby Kennedy were on the McCarthy staff. You would be hard pressed, I think, to find viewpoints more different, but they made common cause with McCarthy at the time. And, correct me if I am wrong, wasn't it Eisenhower who finally convinced the Republican leadership to pull the rug out from under this guy? Mark |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: catspaw49 Date: 06 May 03 - 09:04 PM The Senate bailed him out on several occasions to maintain their "good name" but the Army hearings did him in. Cohn and Kennedy did have a single goal in mind and that was advancing their own careers. Note that both managed to keep clean when Tail Gunner Joe went down. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: SINSULL Date: 06 May 03 - 09:09 PM A real picture of true courage under fire - listen to Pete Seeger's interview at the McCarthy hearings. Pure inspiration. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: catspaw49 Date: 06 May 03 - 09:55 PM LOL Sins....Karen still kids me about it, but that was the first thing I looked up on the internet! great reading Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: Peg Date: 06 May 03 - 11:48 PM Martin Sheen, Susan Sarandon, Tim Robbins and Mike Farrell are very intelligent, articulate, passionate, and talented people. George W. Bush is a moron who has failed at pretty much every professional endeavor of his adult life. I cannot even fathom why anyone would hesitate to elect the first four people listed for any office; except that they aren't professional politicians. Interesting, Doug that you would suggest *actors* should run for president; what qualifies them to do such a thing? Then again, in what way is the shrub qualified? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: DougR Date: 07 May 03 - 12:38 AM Well, Peg, you seem to find umbrage that I suggested what many of you on the Mudcat would love to see happen...a true leftwing liberal like those mentioned in your post running for president! Why shouldn't they? They have every right to do so, but I don't think (based on current polls) they would stand much chance of winning. Which leads me to one of my favorite topics! Why don't you Lefties get together and decide to back a SINGLE candidate? The trouble with many of you is you can't decide on a single person. Why? Because NO ONE SINGLE PERSON represents your individual ideologies! That's one of the reasons Bush will win again in the next election. The folks like me, who are uneducated, unsophisticated, a bit crass, and think he is doing a good job, will vote for him! There are just more of us than there are of the lefties! DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: Metchosin Date: 07 May 03 - 12:48 AM well as PT Barnum said, nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: Peg Date: 07 May 03 - 01:13 AM Christ, Doug why don't you throw a few more sweeping generalizations into your posts?? I'm beginning to think you're as big an idiot as that president you idolize. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: DougR Date: 07 May 03 - 01:41 AM Ohhh! Personal attack alert! Watch out, folks, Peg is aloose! (only conservative thinkers need to be alerted however.) Shudder, Peg, you frighten me almost as much as Big Mick! DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: Peg Date: 07 May 03 - 01:47 AM Doug, you're an ass. You engage in personal attacks all the time, so don't go pointing fingers. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: DougR Date: 07 May 03 - 01:58 AM Peg; as a matter of pride, I NEVER point more than one finger! And, if you would point out any personal attacks I have made, such as those you mount regularly against anyone who does not agree with you, I will apologize to that person. Fair enough? DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: Mark Clark Date: 07 May 03 - 12:22 PM Doug, As I recall, you spent most of your career managing symphony orchestras and still maintained an interest in Western and folk music. That doesn't sound to me like someone who is “uneducated, unsophisticated and a bit crass.” It sounds like someone with diverse tastes and sensibilities and an ability to get along with people. I think that may be why folks here continue to engage you—and pull your chain. Because we simply can't believe that you really buy into all that neo-conservative bile. You seem so nice, otherwise. <g> The celebrities you mention might make good presidents—surely as good as Bonzo's buddy, Ronnie Ray-gun—but it's because their politics are centrist not left-wing. It's been so long since any actual left-wing opinions circulated in the U.S. you've forgotten what left-wing really is. To paraphrase from Beyond the Fringe, we have the Republican Party—which is the equivalent of the Brittish Conservative Party—and we have the Democratic Party—which is the equivalent of the Brittish Conservative Party. The people you malign as “lefties” merely want a country in which everyone has the same opportunity and no one has to fall through the cracks. A country that reaches out to help the struggling peoples of the world instead of ignoring their plight or bombing their countries. A country that treats other nations as members of a world community that must have an equal hand in solving the world's problems. What they don't want is a country that uses its might merely to increase the wealth and power of its corporations. A country in which wealth and power are the only arbiters of human value. Poker players will tell you that every game has a sucker and if, after a few hands, you can't figure out who the sucker is, it's you. The neo-con agenda is like that. Ask yourself, if the neo-con agenda was entirely implemented right now, how would you benefit? Are you all set to receive a huge financial windfall if it happened? If not, you are the sucker because everything else in your life will be worse. If you already know where the money is and how you'll get your hands on it, then you aren't the sucker, you're a true neo-con. But if, as I suspect, what you really care about is family, church, the arts, security and the freedom to enjoy those things then you're probably not a neo-con at all, you're a centrist like Martin Sheen, Susan Sarandon, Tim Robbins and Mike Farrell. - Mark |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: Peg Date: 07 May 03 - 12:57 PM Doug; you just asked me to point out your personal attacks in the midst of a personal attack against me! right HERE: "And, if you would point out any personal attacks I have made, such as those you mount regularly against anyone who does not agree with you," Try once just speaking for yourself, accepting responsibility, and not blaming others for what you have done. This thread alone is full of your snide comments against "you lefties" and "you liberals" and "all you Bush-haters on the Mudcat." Those ARE personal attacks directed at peopole in this thread and it is quite obvious who you're aiming the barbs at. Don't try to wiggle away from it just because you don't have the balls to actually mention people by name. Your method of personal attack is an irritatingly passive-aggressive one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: DougR Date: 07 May 03 - 04:51 PM Nope, Mark, I ain't no centrist! Neither am I neo-cons either (how did that word get into the vocabulary anyway?) Peg: and we conservatives do not come under personal attacks, right? DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: Amos Date: 07 May 03 - 08:57 PM Actually, arch-republican Harry Luce had a lot to do with pulling the rug out from under Joe McCarthy. He probably wouldn't have done it without a sense that Eisenhower was up for it, though. But the public end to McCarthyism was signaled, among other things, by Time Life editorials directed by Luce, saying "Enough!". A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: Peg Date: 08 May 03 - 12:00 AM Doug, like I said, try owning up to YOUR actions, and quit whining about how persecuted you are. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: DougR Date: 08 May 03 - 02:16 AM Peg: "Persicuted." Your word not mine. I have never felt persicuted on the mudcat. Most people are very civil. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: M.Ted Date: 08 May 03 - 04:40 PM If it wasn't for DougR and a couple of others, Mudcat "political" discussion threads wouldn't be discussions at all. Without them, there would be no one to inspire indignation, no one to react angrily to, no one to rail against, and, no one to say "I'm beginning to think you're as big an idiot as that president you idolize." to--Mudcat Conservatives are an endangered species that is vital to the ecosystem, so treat them as you would a Snail Darter-- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Senate unseals McCarthy transcripts From: DougR Date: 08 May 03 - 05:19 PM Thank you, MTed. Next time somebody picks on me, I'm going to refer them to you! :>) DougR |
