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BS: ANSAR: al-Qaida/Iraqi Connection?
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BS: ANSAR: al-Qaida/Iraqi Connection? |
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Subject: BS: ANSAR: al-Qaida/Iraqi Connection? From: Charley Noble Date: 01 Apr 03 - 10:14 AM Well, I'm tracking how this story plays through the media. One of the key rationales for the Bush Administration's invasion of Iraq was to put an end to Saddam's support for world wide terrorist groups such as al-Qaida. A base for one such group was identified earlier this year by the Bush Administration as being in northeastern Iraq close to the Iranian border, cut off geographically from Saddam-controlled Iraq by Kurdish rebel groups. It seemed unlikely to me when the Ansar militants were identified as al-Qaida connected that there was any way that Saddam could support them; they were cut off from territory he controlled and the air above was within the northern no-fly zone; at best (or worst) he may have had a spy or two infiltrated to keep track of what they were doing. Now that the Ansar compound has been overrun by a coalition of U.S. special forces and Kurdish soldiers, we may find evidence documenting the manufacturing of poisonous gas and other terrorist planning. But I'd be very surprised if they find a connection to Saddam. Much more likely, it seems to me, they will find evidence of strong support coming from Islamic fundamentalists in adjacent Iran. Reports indicate that the major Ansar leaders had fled to Iran before their compound was assaulted, along with many of their 150 non-Iraqi supporters. Unfortunately, most of the abbreviated news reports of this successful raid simply state that the compound was in Iraq and connected to al-Qaida. Thus, the Bush Administration's claims that there was such a connection appear to be fully justified, but there is no indication of any evidence so far tying the Ansar militants to Saddam and that part of the story is not being adequately reported. If no evidence is turned up linking Saddam to Ansar, I would expect that story to be buried next to the obituaries. Charley Noble P.S. Having problems getting this message to post! |
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Subject: RE: BS: ANSAR: al-Qaida/Iraqi Connection? From: Amos Date: 01 Apr 03 - 10:22 AM One report described the Ansar/Al-Qaeda training camp as "purpose-built" (shudder). I'd think it unlikely such a project could go on without the complicity of local, if not national bureaucrats given the authoritarian character of the government involved. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: ANSAR: al-Qaida/Iraqi Connection? From: Charley Noble Date: 01 Apr 03 - 10:30 AM Amos- Find a good map to look at. I believe that part of Iraq has been isolated from Iraqi central authority by Kurdish rebels for years. However, there's a clear territorial connection with adjacent Iran. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: ANSAR: al-Qaida/Iraqi Connection? From: Charley Noble Date: 01 Apr 03 - 10:33 AM The Ansar militants are reported to have controlled 18 villages in the vicinity of Halabja, about 180 miles northeast of Baghdad. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: ANSAR: al-Qaida/Iraqi Connection? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 01 Apr 03 - 12:35 PM It's all pretty academic now really. Whatever may have been the case previously - and there is precious little indication of any link between Saddam's regime and Al Qaida - the invasion has ensure that from now on there will be such a link, and links between Al Qaida and a lot more people. Bush and company have created what the nightmare they claimed to be trying to prevent. If Bin Laden has been in direct control of the White House he couldn't have done anything more effective to further his goals of a holy war between the USA and Islam. |
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Subject: RE: BS: ANSAR: al-Qaida/Iraqi Connection? From: Charley Noble Date: 02 Apr 03 - 11:05 AM Well, the "clean-up crew" is reporting evidence of nasty chemicals and nasty chemical cookbooks. But so far nothing which even suggests that there was support from Saddam's Iraq. My understanding is that the Ansar al Islam militants held their small area of northern Iraq's autonomous Kurdish enclave for a little over two years. They were bitter rivals to the two other Kurdish groups. The main base was located near the mountain hamlet of Sargat. It may be "academic" to follow up reports of what is "found" at this al-Qaida supported camp but I think this will be a crucial case study. There are other reports surfacing now that Saddam's chemical weapons of mass destruction were trucked into Syria. Maybe, maybe not. Peace, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: ANSAR: al-Qaida/Iraqi Connection? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 02 Apr 03 - 11:54 AM Pretty ominous reports, insofar as they tie in with indications that there are people in Washington who might well want to move in to a war against Syria next. If that happens I predict that, even if Blair wanted to, he wouldn't be able to get the UK into that one. And I doubt if he'd even try. |
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Subject: RE: BS: ANSAR: al-Qaida/Iraqi Connection? From: GUEST Date: 02 Apr 03 - 01:53 PM well they can always manufacture links...just like I would not be surprised if they manufactured evidence of his having "WMD" |
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Subject: RE: BS: ANSAR: al-Qaida/Iraqi Connection? From: Teribus Date: 03 Apr 03 - 04:46 AM Classic MGOH: "Whatever may have been the case previously - and there is precious little indication of any link between Saddam's regime and Al Qaida - the invasion has ensure that from now on there will be such a link, and links between Al Qaida and a lot more people." And in response to Charley Noble's: "There are other reports surfacing now that Saddam's chemical weapons of mass destruction were trucked into Syria. Maybe, maybe not." Kevin's response is - "Pretty ominous reports, insofar as they tie in with indications that there are people in Washington who might well want to move in to a war against Syria next." Oh Kevin!!! - You old cynic you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: ANSAR: al-Qaida/Iraqi Connection? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 03 Apr 03 - 05:35 AM Link to news story about this: Straw distances UK from threats to Syria and Iran: Britain distanced itself from US sabre rattling yesterday, insisting it would have "nothing to do" with threats from Washington against Iran and Syria and announcing a relaxation of export controls on dual-use civilian and military equipment for Iran. Jack Straw, the foreign secretary, defended Tehran and Damascus after warnings from the US to both regimes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: ANSAR: al-Qaida/Iraqi Connection? From: Troll Date: 03 Apr 03 - 06:06 AM Latest reports indicate strong evidence of ANSAR/al-Qaida connection but no connection to Iraq. But the war is still young so we can always hope. I honestly hope that the Administration doesn't try to manufacture the evidence because, sure as hell, they'll get the wrong people to do the job and get caught out. troll |
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Subject: RE: BS: ANSAR: al-Qaida/Iraqi Connection? From: Teribus Date: 03 Apr 03 - 06:16 AM By the by, looking at where this crowd had their base, it would appear to be outside the Northern No-Fly Zone. |
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Subject: RE: BS: ANSAR: al-Qaida/Iraqi Connection? From: GUEST,Peace Date: 03 Apr 03 - 06:20 AM "I honestly hope that the Administration doesn't try to manufacture the evidence because, sure as hell, they'll get the wrong people to do the job and get caught out." Troll - is that the only reason you hope they don't try to manafacture evidence? |
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Subject: RE: BS: ANSAR: al-Qaida/Iraqi Connection? From: Charley Noble Date: 03 Apr 03 - 11:34 AM Teribus et al- The main base of the Ansar militants, located near the mountain hamlet of Sargat, appears to me to be some fifty miles from territory controled by Saddam's forces over the last two years. It's been cut off on three sides by Patriotic Union of Kurdistan forces for that entire period; the remaining side provided access to the nearby Iranian border. I'm not sure whether this territory was included within the "No Fly Zone." The maps I've looked at are pretty general. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: ANSAR: al-Qaida/Iraqi Connection? From: Teribus Date: 03 Apr 03 - 12:40 PM Charley, The northern no-fly zone boundary was the 36th parallel, the Ansar camp at Sargat is close to Halabja, close to the Iranian border, this lies outside the Northern No-Fly Zone. |
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Subject: RE: BS: ANSAR: al-Qaida/Iraqi Connection? From: Frankham Date: 03 Apr 03 - 06:00 PM What's not being taken into consideration is the antipathy between the Shi'ite and Sunni populations. It would seem that perhaps bin Laden would be closer in ideology to the Shi'ites of Islam (Iran) rather than Iraq. I take him at his word that he feels that Saddam is an infidel. At least that's what he said on one of his previous Al Jazeera tape messages. The question is this in my mind. How much would it take for a united Islam to take a stand against American agression and overcome their religious divisions? Do you think the Bush Administration has thought of this? bin Laden and Saddam are one of many dictators that are prevalent in the Middle East. The focus on them begs the question of how united a faction is opposed to the Bush war. Frank Hamilton |
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Subject: RE: BS: ANSAR: al-Qaida/Iraqi Connection? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 03 Apr 03 - 06:39 PM "It would seem that perhaps bin Laden would be closer in ideology to the Shi'ites of Islam (Iran) rather than Iraq." I'd doubt that very much. Bin Laden is very much from the Wahabi Sunni tradition of the Arabian peninsula. That's a bit like saying Ian Paisley is closer in ideology to some bunch of radical Catholics than he is to secular Loyalists. However it's worth noting that senior Sh'ite clerics in Iraq have denounced the invasion, and have called on Shi'ites to fight against them. The effect of Bush's "crusade" appears to be building the kind of coming together among many disparate Muslims against a common foe that Bin Laden must have dreamed of. On September 11th America's peace technology was hijacked to ignite a war; these last two weeks America's war technology has been hijacked to widen it. It's the same trick, but on a larger scale. |