 sj |
||
|
||
BS: Marching for France
|
|
|
|||||||
|
BS: Marching for France |
Share Thread
|
||||||
|
Subject: BS: Marching for France, Against the War From: Peg Date: 30 Mar 03 - 12:14 PM (The "France" thread was getting a bit long and this seemed like a topic that went beyond that, so I have reposted my last thread there into this new one). peg I marched with over 25,000 people in an anti-war protest in Boston yesterday. The sign I chose to carry (made by frieds the night before) had a French flag and the Statue of Liberty and said "Vive la France!" as well as "Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite." Very interesting the sorts of responses I got. MOST of the time when people responded to it, they looked with interest and usually smiled, or gave some sign of encouragement (thumbs up, or saying they liked my sign). I also had a bit of silly patter to go with it; in an outrageously fake French accent, I said "Vive la France! Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite, cafe au lait, Vive La france!" When I got to "cafe au lait" people laughed. Some people carred baguettes and wore berets; one sign said "Make French Fries, Not War." When I ran into one of the other French supporters, a tall guy (also wearing a French sailor's shirt) we chanted together in call and response style: he said "Vive la France!" and I repeated the other four French words. Whe we parted he'd adopted the "cafe au lait" for his own. Along the route some people hung French flags out their windows (though the Boston police were telling people not to hang out of their windows and threatened to fine those who did), and some folks standing on balconies waving tiny French flags seemed delighted when I shouted up at them and showed my sign. During the march my friends and I, amidst other chants and a few harmonized choruses of "Dona Nobis Pacem" picked up by other marchers, also made up other pro-France chants, like "Baguettes Not Bombs" and "Brioche Not Bombs" and "Make French Toast not War." On the negative side, one student standing with some others (not sure what college but they seemed to be standing in front of one of it's buidings) challenged me with some sort of statement about breaking some contract with Saddam; it sounded like horse hockey so after suggesting he march with us and make his feelings known ("Why would I march with you?" he sneered) I told him to have a nice day and moved on. We passed several enclaves of pro-war protestors, most of them seeming to be working class men between their 20s and 40s. (Carrying clever signs that said things like "Hey Professional Protestors: Take a shower and get a real job!" or "Flag Burners Go Home!")Several of them saw my sign and said "go back to your own country!" I continued chanting in my ridiculously theatrical fake French accent and they STILL thought I was French! Which I found unbelievable. At one point some French students tried talking to me in French when they saw my sign and I had to admit "Ma francais est terrible." They laughed when I tried to converse with them in nonsense phrases like "cafe au lait" and "omelette du fromage." One older Veteran (must have been in his 70s at least) who stood along the route covered in buttons and medals, waving an American flag and a sign stating he opposed the war, said "Vive la France!" when I walked by. I went over and kissed him on the cheek, and thanked him for being there. All in all an amazing day, and even the weather cooperated. Sunny and windy but warm, with just a few momentary bouts of light drizzle. The numbers were just short of the expected 30-50,000 but I imagine these marches will just keep growing. The next one in Washington is expected to top a million. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Marching for France From: JennyO Date: 31 Mar 03 - 05:50 AM Good onya Peg. I can just imagine it! Actually, I have quite a soft spot for the French anyway. My brother and his French wife live in Paris. He hasn't lived in Australia since 1974, but I have visited them 3 times in the last 10 years. Brigitte and her family are just delightful, and I have found the people warm and welcoming. As for Paris........ If I could choose any other city in the world to live in, apart from Sydney where I am very happy, it would be Paris. The countryside is beautiful, too. It doesn't surprise me one bit that they would not go along with that maniac Bush. They have always struck me as strongly individual. Which is more than you can say for our pathetic excuse for a PM, little Johnny Howard. Jenny |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Marching for France From: GUEST Date: 31 Mar 03 - 07:03 AM Peg, Go out and find something usefull to do for a living. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Marching for France From: harvey andrews Date: 31 Mar 03 - 01:31 PM Nice one Peg.(From an "old" European) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Marching for France From: Amos Date: 31 Mar 03 - 01:44 PM Peg: Wow, what a day you had!! Mieux qu' lecher les vitrines, enfin! :>) A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Marching for France From: TIA Date: 31 Mar 03 - 01:46 PM "We passed several enclaves of pro-war protestors, most of them seeming to be working class men between their 20s and 40s. (Carrying clever signs that said things like "Hey Professional Protestors: Take a shower and get a real job!" or "Flag Burners Go Home!")" Hey Peg, one of 'em posted at 7:03 this morning! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Marching for France From: Gareth Date: 31 Mar 03 - 02:02 PM What a pity it is that the French have never supported "Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite." since day two of thier revolution. But then Iam only a working class male European, so what do I know about human rights. Gareth |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Marching for France From: jimmyt Date: 31 Mar 03 - 02:57 PM Gareth, are you between 20-40? I am too old and professional class, and I guess I would have just been out of luck with the "pro war" (read that anti terrism) rally. Oh, well, I guess I just miss out on all the stereotypes. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Marching for France From: GUEST Date: 31 Mar 03 - 03:17 PM "There is a minority of intellectual pacifists whose real though unadmitted motive appears to be hatred of Western democracy and admiration of totalitarianism. Pacifist propaganda usually boils down to saying that one side is as bad as the other but if one looks closely at the writings of younger intellectual pacifists, one finds that they do not by any means express impartial disapproval but are directed almost entirely against Britain and the US. Moreover they do not as a rule condemn violence as such, but only violence used in defense of Western countries." - George Orwell (in 1945), quoted in a letter to The Spectator |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Marching for France From: Troll Date: 31 Mar 03 - 04:23 PM Yeah, lets all go out and march in support of the French Government and Businesses who flouted the UN sanctions by trading with Iraq for 12 years. They went to Iraqs trade show in 2000 in droves and came away with many lucrative contracts including BILLIONS of dollars in oil contracts. Naturally, they don't want to see a regime change. It'll cost them their dirty shirts. I find it highly hypocritical of the French to scream about UN resolutions when thry blithly ignored the resolution that set up the sanctions. The real shocker is that they voted FOR 1441 which called for "serious consequences". I guess that when they finally realized that Bush and Blair were serious they had to do whatever they could to try to de-rail the war and protect their investments. And to think that there are those who are so naive as to think the French oppose the war for noble reasons. There are none so blind as those who will not see. troll |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Marching for France From: Little Hawk Date: 31 Mar 03 - 04:39 PM Terrorism is a threat or an action that deliberately terrorizes people...usually noncombatants...and kills them...in order to secure a political end, a material gain, or in order just to secure revenge. Such being the case, the following outfits are terrorists: Saddam Hussein's government and military. The USA's government and military and CIA. Israel's government and military and paramilitary forces. The Palestinians who have attacked people in Israel and elsewhere. The other Islamic warriors who have attacked people in Israel and elsewhere. The British government and armed forces. Osama Bin Laden and Al-Queda. Islamic Jihad. Hezbollah. And so on, and so on, and so on... They're all terrorists. When confronted with a very BIG terrorist, a medium sized terrorist, and a bunch of small terrorists, I worry first and foremost about the very big one. Which, right now, is the USA. End of story. - LH |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Marching for France From: Forum Lurker Date: 31 Mar 03 - 05:03 PM Troll-You consistently condemn the French for acting in their financial interest, but never condemn the American government for doing the same thing. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Marching for France From: Troll Date: 31 Mar 03 - 05:05 PM Oh if the world were only like dear peaceful Canada. We won't mention all those indians who were shoved off their land or the treatment of the Metis. By your definition, nobody's hands are clean LH. And just because YOU don't happen to agree with what my country is doing right now is no reason to label us terrorists. You see, you left off part of the definition. Terrorists ALWAYS strike without warning and I don't think even you could conjure up a scenario whereby Saddam and the people of Iraq weren't fully aware of what was coming AND why. So why don't you sit down, have a nice soothing cup of Tension Tamer tea, and stop talking such absoulte twaddle. troll |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Marching for France From: Troll Date: 31 Mar 03 - 05:12 PM We aren't so bloody pius about it. Of course we have a financial interest in what happens in Iraq. What we DIDN'T do was subvert the UN sanctions resolution and then try to hide behind other UN resolutions in an attempt to protect our shady deals. France did. If you find this admirable, that's your choice and your right. It's my choice to find it perfidious and my right to say so. troll |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Marching for France From: Forum Lurker Date: 31 Mar 03 - 06:46 PM Troll-No, we just perverted the sanctions resolution, and when no one bought it tried to get a new one so we'd have justification, in order to protect our ulterior motives. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Marching for France From: Peg Date: 31 Mar 03 - 07:17 PM thanks LH and others for pointing out what a hypocrite Troll is. Oh, and GUEST of 7:03? I am a teacher. Is that not useful enough for ya??? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Marching for France From: DougR Date: 01 Apr 03 - 12:31 AM Peg: I read your report on the France thread and thought it was "sick." A repeat on this thread didn't make the motives for the march any better in my opinion. You love France so much, I'm sure they would welcome you as a brand spanking new enthusiastic citizen. DougR |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Marching for France From: Peg Date: 01 Apr 03 - 09:21 AM Doug; go get a life. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Marching for France From: GUEST Date: 01 Apr 03 - 01:57 PM It's mrr, not some random guest. Vive la France indeed, I sing La Marseillaise at all antiwar rallies, to great acclaim. I only change the end to be a little less bloodthirsty... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Marching for France From: Troll Date: 02 Apr 03 - 01:23 AM Well, Peg, I'm happy to know that you think I'm a hypocrit. I certainly would not feel comfortable with your approval. The following story may interest you. Or not. This is, BTW, from The Times. April 02, 2003 One in three French backs Saddam By Charles Bremner and Alan Hamilton ILL-FEELING between Britain and France over the invasion of Iraq has plumbed new depths with the desecration of that most sacred of memorials, a war cemetery. The defilement of Commonwealth war graves in northern France coincided with a poll for The Times which found that 54 per cent of Britons no longer regarded France as a close ally because of its opposition to the war. Relations will be further rent by a second poll, in Le Monde, showing that only a third of the French felt that they were on the same side as the Americans and British, and that another third desired outright Iraqi victory over "les anglo-saxons". Eleven thousand Allied soldiers lie buried in well-tended peace at Etaples, on the Channel coast near Le Touquet, victims of the struggle by Anglo-Saxons to liberate the French from the German invaders during the First World War. Last week the obelisk raised in their memory was defiled by red-painted insults such as "Rosbeefs go home"; "May Saddam prevail and spill your blood"; and, in a reference to the long-dead casualties beneath the manicured turf, "They are soiling our land". Local gendarmerie have launched an inquiry, but have so far found no clues. They say there had been no significant demonstrations against the war in that area of France. The graffiti have been scrubbed off, but the incident has provoked outrage among British politicians, war graves staff and the few remaining relatives of those buried at Etaples. French politicians have joined the condemnation. Bruce George, Labour chairman of the Commons Defence Committee, said: "Remembering what sacrifice these men made for the liberation of France, I cannot believe any mature, sane person would be so stupid as that." David Uffold, 63, a Shropshire farmer, is the only surviving relative of Rifleman Frederick Uffold of the London Regiment, who is buried at Etaples. "I find it sickening that anyone would vandalise the cemetery," he said. "It is the last place they should be protesting about Iraq. These fellows were drafted in to fight for France. I can't see any connection between the men buried at Etaples and the war in Iraq." Peter Francis, of the Commonwealth War Graves Commission, said he was disgusted that a place remembering those who died defending freedom in world wars long ago should be dragged into a current political debate. French politicians did their best to portray the desecration as an isolated act, but it nonetheless underlined anti-American and anti-British emotions running through France over what is seen there as a bungled invasion rapidly turning into a humanitarian disaster. President Chirac's spokesman said: "We are indignant and shocked by the desecration of the graves of soldiers who fought for our liberty." Jean-Pierre Raffarin, the Prime Minister, said: "The Americans are not the enemy; just because we are against this war, it does not mean that we want the victory of dictatorship over democracy." So lets hear it for Pegs buddies, the French. troll |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Marching for France From: GUEST Date: 02 Apr 03 - 01:29 AM Lest We Forget... Subject: RE: Nat Hentoff on the war in Iraq From: GUEST Date: 02 Apr 03 - 01:19 AM "We can truly say that the whole circuit of the earth is girdled with the graves of our dead . . . and, in the course of my pilgrimage, I have many times asked myself whether there can be more potent advocates of peace upon earth through the years to come, than this massed multitude of silent witnesses to the desolation of war." King George V, Flanders, 1922 |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Marching for France From: DougR Date: 02 Apr 03 - 01:44 AM Hey, Peg, I've got one, and SURPRISE! It's a positive one, not a negative one! DougR |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Marching for France From: GUEST Date: 02 Apr 03 - 06:21 PM Peg, Look at this, and remember history. http://www.cwgc.org/news.htm |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Marching for France From: GUEST Date: 02 Apr 03 - 06:40 PM Sorry, this link should work. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Marching for France From: GUEST Date: 02 Apr 03 - 06:47 PM http://www.cwgc.org/news.htm |