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Mics and Sessions
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Subject: Mics and Sessions From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 26 Feb 03 - 12:55 PM The battle lines are drawn and blood may soon flow. No, I'm not talking about Iraq here. We have a weekly Irish music session at a local pub. There is no specific "session leader" as in some sessions. Nobody really wants the job, and creative anarchy has worked just fine.... until now. The pub at which we play has a small in-house PA system for paid giggers to use on weekend nights. A relative newcomer has taken it upon himself to use this PA to amplify his vocals. All other instruments and vocals have remained purely acoustic. His justification is, of course, that a single voice just won't carry over crowd noise and several instruments. For what it's worth, he has offered to pass the mic to others when it's their turn to sing, but everyone else seems to prefer going it unamplified. He also says that at sessions in the city that he recently moved from amplification was the norm instead of the exception. My personal opinion is that I don't give a rat's patooty one way or the other. I don't like most of the guy's choice of material anyway. I don't usually play along with him, and it's not much more difficult to endure his turn to sing with a little extra amplification added than it is to endure it unamplified. However, a majority of our dozen or so regulars do seem to have a problem with it. They feel that the session should remain purely acoustic. Words, both polite and impolite, have been said, but they have apparently had no effect. I'm expecting someone to issue an ultimatum or get the pub management involved soon (like asking them to remove the PA - which may be a non-solution as I suspect the guy would just bring his own). It could get nasty. Thoughts or comments from any of you Mudcattin' types would be greatly appreciated. (I'm already anticipating lots of "A session really needs a specific leader just to deal with things like this" type comments, and that's fine. I've about come to that conclusion myself.) Bruce |
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Subject: RE: Mics and Sessions From: Leadfingers Date: 26 Feb 03 - 01:25 PM As with all these things its all a matter of personal taste.I personally would not dream of using any form of amplification at a 'session',and would not be happy with any one else who did.A lot of session singers have little or no microphone experience, so the use of amplification by some and not all would only be divisive. The issue of session leaders is a different matter.A strong personality is an obvious requirement,but the leader must be supportive of less experienced performers.Bill Eddy who was one of the guiding lights of the Sidmouth sesion I attend was great for this.Failing that a small group might work to control things. Again it all depends on who is there on a regular basis. It would be a shame if your session fell apart because of intransigence on the part of one or two performers. |
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Subject: RE: Mics and Sessions From: GUEST,Jon Date: 26 Feb 03 - 01:35 PM In my not at all humble opinion on this issue, mics have no place in sessions period! Hope you can educate those who think otherwise. Jon |
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Subject: RE: Mics and Sessions From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 26 Feb 03 - 01:47 PM I can't see why there's a problem. I don't much like using mikes myself, but if someone feels it helps, fair enough. Noisy settings do tend to limit the type of songs you feel able to sing - it pushes you towards the familiar ones and the ones you can bellow, and leaving out the ones where people need to listen to the words to understand the song. On the other hand if people put down the instruments they wouldn't drown him out, so maybe he wouldn't need to use the mike. |
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Subject: RE: Mics and Sessions From: pattyClink Date: 26 Feb 03 - 02:06 PM I know a lot of voices have been wrecked by straining to be heard at a sufficient volume. Not everybody's got the lungpower to fill a noisy room, nor should they. I know I sound a truckload better if i'm not 'projecting' to beat the band. Why not make it a rule that 'we'd prefer nobody amplify, but if you REALLY feel you need it, set it up yourself and turn it off when you're done.' Ask the mob if they want to all chip in on the guys vocal nodes surgery or if they want to just CHILL OUT and let the guy wail his own way. |
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Subject: RE: Mics and Sessions From: Murray MacLeod Date: 26 Feb 03 - 02:12 PM BWL, why don't you suggest to all the other participants that they follow your example and remain silent when it is this guy's turn to sing? If he could make hoimself heard acoustically he wouldn't need the PA. I don't think I could ever be accused of being egotistic, but it really does piss me off when somebody joins in uninvited on my song during a singaround. Then again some people like it when others join in.... Murray |
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Subject: RE: Mics and Sessions From: Beccy Date: 26 Feb 03 - 02:20 PM I think you're darned if you do and darned if you don't. Sounds more like a battle of the egos than a battle of acoustic vs. amped. Honestly, it seems as though it's a pissing contest rather than a creative one. I think we can all admit that we artistic types seem to be prone to that... The best bet is to figure out with whom you want to throw in your lot, do so and stick to your guns. One other observation from me afore I fly. Why would a newcomer want to ruffle so many feathers? If I was new and trying to get in with a group, I'd fold if someone looked at me cross-eyed. Perhaps the guy's just a trouble maker. |
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Subject: RE: Mics and Sessions From: fiddler Date: 26 Feb 03 - 02:32 PM I like beccys comments - Personally I see sessions as impromtu and therefore a mic is not needed but I can see the others positions too! Well said Beccy |
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Subject: RE: Mics and Sessions From: NicoleC Date: 26 Feb 03 - 04:26 PM If you can find out WHY he wants to use a mic, you may be able to reach a compromise that makes him (her?) feel welcome at the session without annoying everyone else with the PA. But they may not be able to express it. In my experience, there's a certain type of person who feels loudness makes up for inexperience or just insecurity. (The opposite type is deathly quiet, even when they are quite good.) It may not be an ego question as much as it is a crutch. Holding something in front of their face or just holding a prop makes them feel like they are hiding -- counterintuitive when dealing with a mic, I know, but remember the first time you tried to sing without a guitar in your lap or give a speech without a podium to lean on? Someone who is used to using a mic has a much trouble without one as someone might have trouble getting used to a mic for the first time. |
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Subject: RE: Mics and Sessions From: GUEST,Claymore Date: 26 Feb 03 - 04:59 PM Last year when I was in Ireland, I noticed that some of the pubs used small choral mics suspended from the ceiling to enhance the sounds from the small groups who played there. Perhaps the club owner would see fit to suspend the mics over your location, and the new guy could just aim his voice up to the mics, which would not otherwise be in anybodies way. But I do agree that mics otherwise can spoil the general tenor of the jam. I have friend who started a bluegrass jam at a local garage several years ago. Sometime after the begining of the jam, a guy walked in with a small bass amp, so that he could jam with his electric bass. When I went by a couple of months ago the whole place was electric and loud; kinda like going to hell with Merle Haggard. 'Nuff said. |
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Subject: RE: Mics and Sessions From: wilco Date: 26 Feb 03 - 05:15 PM This can be a real mess. There is some justification for an electric bass, since the upright acoustic is so large and cumbersome. I agree with Beccy's observation that this person shows real insensitivity, which might be a harbinger of things to come. If it were me, I would tell the offender privately of your concern, and then see what he (or she) did. If they persisted with amplification, I would start another, seperate non-amplified jam. |
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Subject: RE: Mics and Sessions From: curmudgeon Date: 26 Feb 03 - 05:42 PM In the nearly twenty years I've been riding herd on a trad Anglo-Celtic session no one's ever tried to amp anything. We've talked about it. It is sometimes very difficult for the audience to hear the songs. However, we have found that the mere presence of a microphone alters the dynamics. My suggestion is for you or a like minded member to arrive early, unplug all the mikes and stow them behind the bar. When the twit makes an enquiry, tell them that they were stolen by a roving band of music lovers -- Tom |
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Subject: RE: Mics and Sessions From: alison Date: 27 Feb 03 - 12:42 AM we have a local session which they decided to amplify... I think it stinks!!.... why????... becasue it isn't fair to all the people there..... originally it started off with the session leaders (fiddle guitar and vocals) being amplified..... then people started to bring their own... amps. mics. leads etc... everywhere then it went to one big mixing desk with whoever wants to plug in... plugging in... and a mic being passed around to whoever is trying to do the "lead" on a song or tune....... but my real problem is that in a circle of about 15 players..... quite often all you can hear is a few people..... sure the others are playing but you can't hear them over the PA amplified ones... and I don't think that is fair to the majority of the people attending...... it needs to be all or nothing.... not somewhere in the middle slainte alison |
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Subject: RE: Mics and Sessions From: Declan Date: 27 Feb 03 - 11:24 AM If the session has always been acoustic and the majority of the people want to keep it that way then tell this person that that is the case and give him the option of joining in on that basis or not joining in. There's no need to feel bad about this, this person is trying to impose his will on you and change the nature of your session. If you don't want that to happen then you have to take a stand - even if the guy kicks up a fuss about it - it won't be you that's out of order. My guess is that if one person starts using the mic, then others will follow, people will start bringing practice amps etc and before you know it the whole thing will be electrified, and people who want to play acoustically won't be able to be heard. I don't think you have to appoint yourself leader of the session to do this, just make yourself a "spokesperson" for the night on this particular issue. I think you have every right to assert yourself on this. BUT, make sure that enough others feel the same way as you do and are prepared to back you up if things turn nasty before you climb out on the limb. |
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Subject: RE: Mics and Sessions From: smallpiper Date: 27 Feb 03 - 11:33 AM Ever heard of a volume control? If this guy/gal needs to use a mic then get someone to turn it down low so it is only just above accoustic volume - they then have the support they feel that they need and it wont interfere too much with what's going on else where. I personnally think that applification should be banned from sessions anyway because a session is just that and not a performance - which aplification turns it into. (the exception to the rule being electric bass guitars and then only at a very sensible volume). Ho Hum there's my tuppence worth |
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Subject: RE: Mics and Sessions From: GUEST,Les B. Date: 27 Feb 03 - 11:46 AM These things can get nasty and touchy at the same time. We had a guy who used to show up at acoustic jams - held in bars with a practice amp and electric guitar and proceed to get louder as he got drunker. And he couldn't play worth sour owl shit! Trouble was, his wife was a long-time member of the musical community and an excellent fiddler. If we were lucky he got drunk quickly and then couldn't play, but then his wife would have to cart him home and we'd lose her fine playing. We couldn't decide whether to chip in for an alcohol rehab program or a divorce! Last I heard they'd drifted away from those jams and were making a mint doing karaoke. |
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Subject: RE: Mics and Sessions From: GUEST,Russ Date: 27 Feb 03 - 12:37 PM What Declan said. This is not a moral or ethical issue. It is about personal tastes. As such, what other musicians in other sessions do is irrelevant. What "everybody" does is irrelevant. What is relevant is what the majority of the specific individuals are your specific session want to do. If most of you don't like amplification, then you are not required to explain, defend, or feel guilty about that personal preference. Your only (minimal) obligation is to make that preference clear to newcomers. |
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Subject: RE: Mics and Sessions From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 27 Feb 03 - 01:48 PM Thanks for everybody's comments and suggestions. Certainly does not appear to be an easy answer to this one. Well, tonight is session night so we'll see what happens. Maybe the guy will get a gig someplace else on Thursday nights. I know he'd rather be playing for money than hangin' out with us playin' for free. Bruce |
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Subject: RE: Mics and Sessions From: Beccy Date: 27 Feb 03 - 01:52 PM Let us know how it all shakes out, BDL. |
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Subject: RE: Mics and Sessions From: PeteBoom Date: 27 Feb 03 - 02:33 PM If I'm in a session in a pub or after-hours at a festival, I'm playing for the fun of playing. That is, I'm playing music with other musicians who simply love playing music. Of one of them drops a recorder in the middle to learn a new tune or song, that's great - no problem. Somebody hooks up a PA and sticks a mic in there - the meter just kicked on. We're now "performing". That means, it just became work - not play. I know I'm pretty hard-nosed about it, but that's the way I see it. True story: I played a festival in Michigan last year - had a fantastic time there. The band I was playing with was the last act on the last stage going - scheduled that way. Had a great time - scads of people under the tent finishing off the adult beverages that were available and generally relaxing after a very long day (about half the folks there at the end were festival volunteers or workers). We finished our set and tore down our gear and loaded up the van and cars. 'bout the time that we finished, a session started up out in the middle of the festival grounds. We heard this music coming (literally) from the middle of a pitch dark field. Being music types, we grabbed our instruments and headed that way - and found a bunch of folks from other bands playing for the sake of playing. We joined in and all had a great time. One of the festival guys told us that the stage was still lit and we could play there - we all just looked at each other and thanked him - we'd rather play in the dark, playing the tunes we wanted to play, then go back and play tunes on a lighted stage. It was time for US to "play" after having "worked" for 14 hours that day. Ah well - Cheers - Pete |
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Subject: RE: Mics and Sessions From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 28 Feb 03 - 01:24 AM Well folks, this story has a happy ending! The same pub has decided to host an amplified mixed bag session on Monday nights and keep the Thursday night session strictly acoustic and Irish. I think the decision has made everybody happy. This way the purists can have their strictly acoustic session and the folks who just have to plug in can have theirs and those of us who like it either way get to have two sessions a week. Heck, I'm sure no purist. I'll be at both of 'em. Have Marshall, will travel. Yipee! Bruce |
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