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Musical prostitute ?
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Subject: Musical prostitute ? From: GUEST,bit drunk Date: 01 Feb 03 - 08:00 PM I just saw U2 on the T.V, (Some song about being the roots of America). I got the feeling that the song was written to fit the song title, having been offered by some movie corp'.... The lyrics seem quite good, but is this prostitution? "I write a heart felt (feeling) song to your brief" kind of thing? People have asked me to do this kind of thing in the past (although for Any how, any constuctive thoughts would be interesting. (I am aware of the space shuttle event, and my thoughts go out to the families and the represented nations) Regular(ish) mudcatter |
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Subject: RE: Musical prostitute ? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 01 Feb 03 - 08:13 PM ????? |
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Subject: RE: Musical prostitute ? From: Richie Date: 01 Feb 03 - 08:21 PM I see nothing wrong about writing any song for any reason...as long as you believe in it or it isn't morally objectionable. If you are writing in favor of a topic that you do not agree with just for the money- it's a type of prostitution. If the Klu Klux Klan asked me to write a jingle for them, I would say no. No amount of money would sway me. If someone asked me to write a jingle on a subject was topical or something I did not disagree with, it would be fine. -Richie |
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Subject: RE: Musical prostitute ? From: GUEST,bit drunk Date: 01 Feb 03 - 08:28 PM Just interested, not wishing to argue... Richie... Where is the line drawn? To me this particular song felt plain commercial. I know there's a whole market out there for this kind of thing, but does that make it ok for musicians who have (do) use their music to promote a particular point of view to 'subsidise' it with commercial stuff? |
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Subject: RE: Musical prostitute ? From: Jeri Date: 01 Feb 03 - 09:05 PM We live in a capitalist society. (I'm assuming 'we'.) Most of us would love to earn a living doing music. If someone offers you money to write a song about a subject of their choosing, I don't see there's anything wrong with it. You can choose who and what you work for the same as with anything else, so if you find anything offensive, don't do it. Heck, Michelangelo painted the Sistine Chapel because someone paid him to. |
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Subject: RE: Musical prostitute ? From: Richie Date: 01 Feb 03 - 09:27 PM I agree with Jeri. I have been comissioned to write a variety of music, there's nothing wrong with getting paid to do it. I teach a lot of different types of songs, some songs I find somewhat objectionable because of language and sometimes content. I try not to judge what music my student learn, even thought I wouldn't listen to most of it. -Richie |
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Subject: RE: Musical prostitute ? From: NicoleC Date: 01 Feb 03 - 09:50 PM Why should a musician or any other artist be held to a different standard about his employment than, say, a janitor? |
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Subject: RE: Musical prostitute ? From: Sandy Mc Lean Date: 01 Feb 03 - 10:18 PM Sometimes great songs are written when the intention was to create a commercial ditty. Back in the 1960's Michael Stanury of The Townsmen wrote two songs , The Ballad of Nova Scotia and The Ballad of The Bluenose as advertisment soundtracks to promote his grandfathers brewery. Neither mentioned beer and were excellent ballads , becomming a part of our folksong heritage. These songs probably sold many gallons of Olands beer but it was done with class . I suppose it is not prostitution writing a song with the hope that it will become a hit without motivation other than payback. Any song that I have ever written was only because I had a story to tell and the only payback hoped for was audience appriciation. That being said I find it hard not to be judgemental of most of the songs that I hear on airplay. That opinion is best kept to myself! Slainte, Sandy |
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Subject: RE: Musical prostitute ? From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 01 Feb 03 - 10:27 PM My meager songwriting abilities will never land me in a situation where "musical prostitution" would be a concern. However, I do earn my living as a visual artist (potter) and there are certain parallels. I would rather produce nothing but what I feel like making and have an enlightened public with an advanced sense or artistic appreciation flock to my door ready to spend their money. But it ain't gonna happen. The most profitable projects that I do are commission jobs like custom tilework and sets of tableware. I usually have to work within the parameters the customer has delineated (certain colors, shapes etc.). I don't have the total freedom that I do in making truly original work, but commissioned pieces are still from my studio and they will be produced with the same level of craftsmanship as I would put into my most inspired original designs. Same thing with songs. A songwriter who writes a song "on spec" never knows how it's going to be received. It has to stand or fall based on its appeal to the listener. A song written for somebody else is, in a sense, a commodity to be produced and sold. It's money in the bank. But, a songwriter with any amount of talent and integrity will put as much of his or her art into it as any other song they might write. If they don't, then it is musical prostitution. Bruce |
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Subject: RE: Musical prostitute ? From: Matt_R Date: 01 Feb 03 - 10:39 PM Not to mention the Song Challenge!s are in the same vein. As long as you wrote it, it carries your own politik and no one elses. |
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Subject: RE: Musical prostitute ? From: C-flat Date: 02 Feb 03 - 03:53 AM "To me this particular song felt plain commercial. I know there's a whole market out there for this kind of thing, but does that make it ok" I've always regarded U2 as a commercial band, that is to say, appealing to a mass market and selling millions of records. Every thing they do is commercial, even when Bono "apologised" to his wife for missing her birthday, with the video "The sweetest thing" it made a fortune. If they've wrote a song for "Gangs of New York", I wouldn't exactly regard it as U2 prostituting themselves. |
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Subject: RE: Musical prostitute ? From: Susanl Date: 02 Feb 03 - 04:07 AM I was going to use the Michaelangelo example but it's been taken. I think the point is that if a person is able to write a song that addresses someone else's point of view, then that person is doing their job... being a writer. Unless that person writes a song that they're disappointed in. Then, that means they haven't done their job. A good writer should be able to write about anything effectively. If they haven't, then they just haven't done their job. Not that that justifies writing tripe that passes brilliantly as a commercial song. They must write something GOOD that passes as a commercial song. It's all very simple. (yeah... right.... ) |
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Subject: RE: Musical prostitute ? From: smallpiper Date: 02 Feb 03 - 05:22 AM To make a living from your talent is not prostitution - just bloody good luck! U2 are just a band that makes its living doing what it does and that is to make and sell music, as do many others, as do/did many "great" folkies - O'Carolan the blind Irish Harpist to name but one... I'm sure that people can think up loads more. But I cn't be arsed. Anyway the point is that there is nowt wrong with making a living and people should not be chastised for doing so (the word commercial have the connotation of having sold out some how). |
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Subject: RE: Musical prostitute ? From: Broadside Johnnie Date: 02 Feb 03 - 05:32 AM If we are talking about The Hands that Built America from Gangs of New York: The song was written specifcally for a film about working class Irish immigrants in New York. The narrative voice in the lyric resonates with the perspective of the Irish and Irish-Americans (as I have observed it): affection for, pride in, and ownership of the land that promises liberty. This is not patriotic pandering or corporate kowtowing. It's consistent with the theme and subject matter of the film. On the other hand, the film company could be called on the carpet for failing to commission a song from Shane McGowan. U2's lyrics cannot approach the personal intensity and precision imagery Shane penned into Thousands Are Sailing and Fairy Tale of New York. Judge for yourself: which of these descriptions of New York evokes a stronger personal involvement with its author? U2: steel and glass canyons Shane: Manhattan's desert twilight in the dead of afternoon If U2 is guilty of anything here, it's lyrical laziness, or concession to the cliche' |
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Subject: RE: Musical prostitute ? From: GUEST,van lingle Date: 02 Feb 03 - 08:38 AM An informative post, Broadside Johnny, but the Pogue's song titled "Thousands are Sailing" was written by Phillip Chevron, their guitar player, and sung by MacGowan. vl |
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Subject: RE: Musical prostitute ? From: Deckman Date: 02 Feb 03 - 10:31 AM I am finding this thread quite interesting. This subject has always caused me serious thought. In the late fifties and early sixties, up in Seattle, I was performing a great deal. Once I learned my craft, I pretty well had my pick of singing opportunites. Then I married and my wife and I moved to the California Bay area for five years. During those five years, I was working two jobs, going to College, raising children and I would sing for anyone/anywhere, as we needed the money. (ever notice what a great leveler money is?) Finally I had enough with singing for anyone. I was feeling burned out (musically) as well as a prostitute to my music. I hung up my guitar for the next five years, and then when I did go back to it, it was quite wonderful. But, as been well expressed here, you do what you have to do to survive. I now know that my feelings of artistic prostitution had much more to do with my afluence than integrity! CHEERS, Bob(deckman)Nelson |
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Subject: RE: Musical prostitute ? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 02 Feb 03 - 12:55 PM The reason prostitution counts as an insult is that its an accusation that someone is doing something for money that they should only do for love. I don't think writing to order is fairly described that way. Making music is for some lucky people a way of makig a living. If they don't put their best effort into it, they are letting themselves down, but that's something else. |
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Subject: RE: Musical prostitute ? From: Ivan Date: 02 Feb 03 - 03:38 PM Woodie Guthrie wrote loads of songs to order. Does that make him a musical prostitute. I assume that the use of the word prostitute is implying that a song is written for money just to satisfy the "client". If the writer of the song also gets something from the experience (other than money) is he/she still a prostitute? Now, if you write something that is against your own principles just for money then I think that is wrong - but I'd say "hypocrite" is the right word in that case. |
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Subject: RE: Musical prostitute ? From: GUEST,Just Curious Date: 02 Feb 03 - 04:03 PM If I wrote a song for a girl I had sex with,would I be a musical prostitute? Just curious. |
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