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Tech: Dead Computer
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Subject: Tech: Dead Computer From: Ed. Date: 14 Jan 03 - 05:37 PM Major problem, I fear... I have been having a problem with a machine networking, so tonight I unplugged everything, stuck the machine on the dining room table so that I could easily access the back, and solved the problem. Pleased with myself, I put the machine back in place, reconnected everything, and tried to switch it on... Nothing... Well not quite nothing, the screen and speakers (powered via the same suppy) still work, so it's not that, but the machine won't even attempt to boot. A dead hard disk? Dead BIOS? Any ideas gratefully received. Ed What's worse is that it's 'her' machine... |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Dead Computer From: NicoleC Date: 14 Jan 03 - 06:17 PM Assuming you have NO power to the computer itself (no lights, no nithing)... Do the easy/obvious stuff first: Didja double check to make sure the power cable was seated snuggly in the back of the computer? Did you try the power cable in a different outlet on the power strip to one you know works? Did you swap the whole power cable out? (It's a standard cable, you can probably even swap with the monitor for testing purposes.) On the inside: Check the connections leading from the power supply (the one INSIDE the computer, not the power strip). One may have come loose while being moved around. Check the functioning of the button or switch *behind* the power switch. You may have a dead power supply. It happens, particularly on bargain computers like eMachines as they start to get to be a couple of years old. They're cheap, and not too hard to swap out even for a beginner. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Dead Computer From: CraigS Date: 14 Jan 03 - 08:14 PM Try disabling everthing in the BIOS and OS associated with advanced power management when running the machine stand-alone, then plug it back onto the network. If that doesn't work, try another hub port or even another hub. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Dead Computer From: JohnInKansas Date: 15 Jan 03 - 04:06 AM Ed Not much help here so far...(?) It might help to have a little more description of what kind of computer you have, and what you did to it while you had it on the table. You say that the display and sound are on the same power supply as the computer. Does this mean it's one of those "e-machines" or (horrors) a Even if the hard drive died, you would get a message to the effect of "no boot disk found;" so if it doesn't get that far you can be fairly confident that the HD is still okay. If you heard "beeps" when you turned it on, you can guess that the BIOS is doing the scan for connected components. On PCs, the number of beeps - if there are any - can tell you something about what's going on. If it doesn't even "beep," the most likely problem is a power supply gone bad. You didn't indicate whether you had power connected to the computer while you had it on the table. Connecting/disconnecting things with the computer turned on can (rarely, but sometimes) "fry" little things that connect thereto. In most cases, such failures are "open circuits," and only the circuit that failed goes out; but occasionally a solid state device can "fail shorted" and overload the power supply, stopping everything. Your description implies that you didn't have the case open. True??? If you have a separate monitor (the usual case), I'd guess that you disconnected it to move the computer. Some monitor connections have very fragile pins, and one may have been bent when you plugged back in. In this remotely possible circumstance, the computer may be running but just can't get a picture into the monitor. Without more specific info, there's not much to suggest except a conversation with a local expert. John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Dead Computer From: Dave Bryant Date: 15 Jan 03 - 06:18 AM Is the fan on the power supply running and any power-on light on the front of the case alight ? - if not then it's either the power supply or the lead to it that's at fault. In the UK, I'd suggest checking the fuse in the plug as well. If you have opened the case, check that you have not dislodged the power connector(s) to the motherboard or any of the other connections from the case. I know that it's been mentioned already, but do you get any beeps from the speaker in the case - the number of bleeps often specifies any error. CraigS - if Ed can't get any respose from the PC, he wouldn't be able to get into the BIOS settings. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Dead Computer From: winterchild Date: 15 Jan 03 - 06:29 AM I once had a beepless non-response like that; I'd jogged the ram chip just a tiny bit loose. Amazing how a little thing like that can muck things up! Hope you fix it! WinterC |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Dead Computer From: Rapparee Date: 15 Jan 03 - 06:31 AM On some PCs I've worked on -- mostly older models -- the power supply had a fuse. So have some of the monitors. The power supplies had the fuse internally (i.e., you had to remove the case); the monitors had an external plug with either a sideways S or the word "fuse" on it. If the pins are okay, try swapping out the monitor. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Dead Computer From: NicoleC Date: 15 Jan 03 - 12:13 PM Good thought, John, I hadn't thought it might be one of those all-in-one machines. Ed? Got any power at all? If all else fails, I have a laptop for sale :) |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Dead Computer From: GUEST Date: 15 Jan 03 - 12:32 PM I'm guessing but I think the type of power supply Ed has has a 240V hard wired outlet next to the 240V inlet and a lead would typically be run from there to the monitor. I like it - it saves an extra plug in the mains and am not convinced it is cheap. I "inherited" what was originally a £2K+ system (Viglen) with that type of PS. I did have a wierd one once - an Amstrad PC1512 - 8088 processor and one of the first affordable PC clones in the UK. That had the power supply in the monitor and the transformed voltage was passed to the main unit. I don't think Ed is talking about anything like that. My favourite option would be the possibility that something got dislodged in transit but that again is sheer guesswork. Jon |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Dead Computer From: Nemesis Date: 15 Jan 03 - 12:44 PM I've been "dead" for 3 days just got back on this minute .. and quite apart from other problems the keyboard had gone .. so it wouldn't boot or any thing.. Try just connected ing with mimimum power cables to PC and monitor and no peripherals whatsoever .. and then add them one by one . |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Dead Computer From: Dave the Gnome Date: 15 Jan 03 - 01:06 PM I'd go for the memory strips, Ed. I have seen the inside of that machine (Haven't I?). Can't remember where the strips are but they are the easiest thing in the world to disturb if you take the case off. If the worse comes to the worse you know where I am. Cheers Dave |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Dead Computer From: Ed. Date: 15 Jan 03 - 01:28 PM Thanks very much everyone. Problem solved. Embarrassingly simple, I'm afraid. When I had the initial networking problem, I thought that I might need to change the NIC, or at least check that it was seated properly, so I took the front panel of the tower off in anticipation (turned out that I just needed to reinstall the driver). Anyhow, the ON switch is connected to the outside of the front panel, via a thin plastic stalk. All I'd done was to snap that. *blush* Appreciate your concern anyway. Thanks Ed |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Dead Computer From: Jim McLean Date: 15 Jan 03 - 02:36 PM I'm glad your PC is OK now, Ed, but just for the record, I've had a PC which was totally dead and the motherboard was at fault. Newer ATX PSUs use an electronic gate type switch rather than the older push click on/off AT PSUs and a fault in the motherboard can cause an apparent total loss of power. Jim McLean |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Dead Computer From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 15 Jan 03 - 03:21 PM Now if you'd taken it along to PC World they'd probably have charge you £100 or so to sort that out... I'm not joking. When my son's computer died a cople of months ago, and I'd worked out it was the power supply box in the computer that had snuffed it, PC World said it'd cost about £160 to fix (it being out of warranty by a month or so). And they couldn't sell me a replacemnt Power Supply, because it wasn't the standard size. (Though they had sold us the machine in the first place.) Ringing round I was able to find a replacement unit for about £20, and it took all of five minutes to fit it, since I'm not very fast at that stuff, and I'd never done it before. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Dead Computer From: GUEST Date: 15 Jan 03 - 03:33 PM That is really poor McGrath. I have used PCWorld in Norwich but prefer to aviod them and use the likes of Dabs and Novatech (I've not dealt with Watford - the one I gave you in your thread) for bits. The last thing I replaced was a floppy drive. A moments inspiration of the part of Pip found a computer shop in North Walsham. Not only are they closer for me but their equivilant (a Sony rather than a Panasonic I think) was at least £3 cheaper (say £13 compared to £16) and the people knew thier subject. I don't spend much on computer bits over the year but if that experience is anything to go by, I will be delighted to give the local company any trade I have. Jon |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Dead Computer From: Amos Date: 16 Jan 03 - 03:40 PM Well, JIK, you can knee-jerk to your heart's content, but the kind of scrambling depicted in this thread hardly ever occurs in Macs. I suspect your invective is based on a plethora of misinformation, or a vacuum of any real information at all. Espcially with the advent of their current UNIX-based OS they are simply faster and better systems. A |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Dead Computer From: Ed. Date: 16 Jan 03 - 04:00 PM More Gloom for Apple Come on Amos, I doubt that any PC user considers Windows to be perfect. Linux isn't either. Your quasi-religious insistence that 'everything Mac' is wonderful is becoming quite tiresome. Every OS does some things well, and others less well. Sure, Apple make good machines. Hardly anyone uses them though. It's a shame that Apple needs to descend to the 'that looks cool' (which they undoubtedly do) market to sell machines |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Dead Computer From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 16 Jan 03 - 05:09 PM The best doesn't necessarily come out on top, either in machines or people. One of the lies about Capitalism is that it ensures that it does. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Dead Computer From: winterchild Date: 23 Jan 03 - 03:42 AM Ed; SO glad you fixed the problem! Amazing how simple it can seem - once you _find_ the problem - but don't underestimate yourself just because the solution was simple once you found it! NicoleC ... are you in the UK? if NOT, what kind of laptop d'you have for sale? Sounds like the folks in the UK have to scramble more to find parts, but they know what they're doing! Amos - sure, Apples are cool, but they just aren't _convenient_. It's like with cars that use gasoline vs cars that use ethanol; both would have been just as good, but once one came into common use, the other was just not worth the trouble. Plus you can't transfer skills learned on one easily to the other. As for Linux; imagine you had to learn Latin to operate your car - most of us would take the bus! It may be elegant and versatile, or so I have been told, but it involves too much learning. McGrath - apt grasp of capitolism! Winterchild |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Dead Computer From: Grab Date: 23 Jan 03 - 09:05 AM This problem would never happen with Apples, no. You *can't* upgrade a Mac, all you can do is throw away the old one and pay full-price for a new one... BTW, a comparison of Mac vs PC for Photoshop stuff... Graham. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Dead Computer From: Amos Date: 23 Jan 03 - 09:34 AM Can't up grade? Gimme a break. As for convenience, the box currently in my home office runs day and night, on and on, always ready, and it is fast and friendly. And Ed, if you're talking "tiresome" let me point out that JiK wanted to start a flame fight. I opened the thread to see if I could help. And you mischaracterize my point of view somewhat tiresomely yourself. I have no religion on this subject, but I appreciate good engineering. I even use W2K at work without a problem. But ya know what? I should never have even noticed JiK's gratutitous and unfounded negativity. You guys want to squabble, go for it. A |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Dead Computer From: Ed. Date: 23 Jan 03 - 01:47 PM Amos, I apologise if I mischaracterized your view. However, your comment in this message, that moving to from a PC to a Mac would be "like shifting from paganism to Christian enlightenment, wait and see!", informed my view. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Dead Computer From: JohnInKansas Date: 23 Jan 03 - 03:37 PM Amos – I am rather at a loss to comprehend your repeated personal attacks, I presume over what I considered an "off-hand" and joking question: Does this mean it's one of those "e-machines" or (horrors) a My only purpose here was to establish what kind of machine had the problem. There was a suggestion of an integrated display, which – so far as I've seen – is found only in a few "e-machines" and some Macs. Previous comments gave only random guesses – based apparently on the assumption of whatever machine the "posting authority" was using. Well, JIK, you can knee-jerk to your heart's content, but the kind of scrambling depicted in this thread hardly ever occurs in Macs. Precisely my reason for asking. If it was a Mac we could all go home, since we'd know he only imagined that he had a problem. Or, more seriously, those of us who use PCs could defer to participants who know something about Macs rather than posting more random guesses. I suspect your invective is based on a plethora of misinformation, or a vacuum of any real information at all. This is an unwarrented and unfounded personal attack. (But a very nice use of "strong but meaningless words" – majored in advertising?) … let me point out that JiK wanted to start a flame fight. I fail to see how you reached that conclusion. Wishful thinking? I opened the thread to see if I could help. I fail to see any content in any of your postings to this thread that address either the original question, or any subject that developed in the discussion, except posts in response to your own "flame war." I should never have even noticed JiK's gratutitous and unfounded negativity. You are absolutely correct that my comment was "gratutious," but it was meant as a mild jest, and I fail to see how it should have elicited your "personal flame attack" on me. I frankly do not see the "negativity" of the comment – but then I suppose I'm more accustomed to dealing with people who are not quite so single-minded about their Macs. If what is generally accepted "slang" is personally so offensive to you, I do apologize; but I'd suggest that your personal problem with it should be discussed in a thread about "political correctness/politeness," rather than in one on technical subjects. "I should never have noticed …" is also what I expected, and was most people's response to my single comment; just as probably noone else particularly noticed your repeated personal "smears" of me. I was, however, and am, offended. I considered a PM to express my objections, but if there is something that I've missed, I must owe an apology to the entire group of thread participants – and it is willingly offered if such is due. Ed – I would very mildly object to your link to "More Gloom for Apple" as an "un-news" item. Virtually all technical products manufacturers have published similar information, so it doesn't contribute much to know that Apple had a bad quarter. In news of similar kind, we're down to three US "consumer PC" manufacturers that can be considered truly viable (discounting the "consumer toys" that have come along recently). Dell, Compaq, and Gateway – with Micron barely hanging in there. Since there were several hundred a couple of years ago, looking at the "business reports" would lead one to think that Apple is winning. Grab – The article you linked is quite interesting, but I'd recommend against citing it in the general "Mac wars" context. While he prints a lot of numbers, they don't really support his enthusiasm for his conclusion that "the PC won" in his test. Most users will never see the kinds of files he was handling, or his categories of software – so it's not applicable to most of us; and none of the four machines he compared was actually set up for what he was doing – or even the same as the other test machines to the extent needed for such a comparison. I'll study it some more, because it has some good info (about the software he used), but it's a very weak "proof" of anything, and a knowledgeable user will demolish either side of the argument at will, if that's all you've got to offer for your side of it. John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Dead Computer From: Amos Date: 23 Jan 03 - 05:19 PM John: My error, please forgive -- I misinterpreted your mild jest. I have been more combative than is probably necessary about the Mac/Intel issue, but in my defense it is because I have seen so many, many reactionary remarks offered up by folks who have their heads up their asses, with no real information to work with, that it becomes tiresome. I do apologize for painting you with a brush you didn't deserve. A |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Dead Computer From: JohnInKansas Date: 23 Jan 03 - 05:51 PM Amos I hope that my previous posts (in other threads) re - the Mac/PC controversies, have been reasonably balanced; and I am a little surprised that you apparently aren't familiar with those prior discussions, and the "attitude" I try to apply to the subject. You probably missed my comments because of my characteristic concise, terse, brief writing style (another joke). I do understand how we all have our little "triggers," and sometimes shoot back before we're sure of the target. Lets let this one pass, and we'll both do better next time. John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Dead Computer From: GUEST,JTT Date: 24 Jan 03 - 01:06 PM Religious War Breaks Out Troops of competing crusaders and Saracens battled with hard drives yesterday at the beginning of what will be known as the Hundred Bytes War... |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Dead Computer From: Jim McLean Date: 24 Jan 03 - 06:27 PM What an interesting thread spoilt by the incompatible ignorance of PC V Mac. Jim Mclean |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Dead Computer From: Amos Date: 24 Jan 03 - 07:59 PM Ed: You really had to stretch the context of that post, which was directed to someone who was learning how to operate a new Mac, and who was a widely-professed Christian. It had nother contect in mind!! Anyway, onward and upward. Ten yeas from now we'll all be running some new species that will make us just laugh at the memory of these antiquated WIMP interfaces, the way we now do at life in the days of the 64K Osborne or learning COBOL on an old VAX. A |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Dead Computer From: Ed. Date: 24 Jan 03 - 08:18 PM Agreed, Amos We've managed to fall out over nothing, without even ever having met. Not the best way forward, I'm sure you'd agree. My apologies for my part in it. Ed |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Dead Computer From: GUEST Date: 24 Jan 03 - 08:31 PM COBOL???? Any fans here? It did a job and there are probably still a huge number of business programs around that were written in it but I think it looks the most horrible language I've ever seen. Jon |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Dead Computer From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 24 Jan 03 - 09:20 PM You know, we seem to be able to work up a squabble out of anything. "Oh no we can't" "Yes we can" "Who are you calling a liar?" "If the cap fits wear it..." |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Dead Computer From: Amos Date: 24 Jan 03 - 10:41 PM McGrath: Just when we made up ya gotta come along and stir things up again!! You some kind a commie pinko radical anarchist facilitator or sompn?? LOL!!! A |
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