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Help: Fiddle/Violin question

dorareever 16 Sep 02 - 07:16 PM
dorareever 16 Sep 02 - 07:18 PM
McGrath of Harlow 16 Sep 02 - 07:19 PM
Jeri 16 Sep 02 - 07:22 PM
Donuel 16 Sep 02 - 07:53 PM
Sorcha 16 Sep 02 - 07:57 PM
greg stephens 16 Sep 02 - 09:00 PM
greg stephens 16 Sep 02 - 09:02 PM
NicoleC 16 Sep 02 - 09:49 PM
GUEST,Bassic 16 Sep 02 - 10:38 PM
NicoleC 16 Sep 02 - 10:51 PM
Catherine Jayne 17 Sep 02 - 04:24 AM
GUEST,Sarah 17 Sep 02 - 04:48 AM
dorareever 17 Sep 02 - 05:50 PM
dorareever 17 Sep 02 - 05:54 PM
greg stephens 17 Sep 02 - 05:59 PM
dorareever 17 Sep 02 - 06:07 PM
Kim C 17 Sep 02 - 06:25 PM
NicoleC 17 Sep 02 - 06:36 PM
greg stephens 17 Sep 02 - 06:52 PM
GUEST,leeneia 17 Sep 02 - 10:52 PM
Sorcha 17 Sep 02 - 11:28 PM
Kim C 18 Sep 02 - 09:50 AM
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Subject: Fiddle/Violin question
From: dorareever
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 07:16 PM

I was inspired to ask this question from the recent fiddle thread.As I told you I don't really want to learn to play fiddle (and folky style fiddle is the only think I can see myself doing,because I don't have money/time for classical lessons...so classical violin really wouldn't be the thing),I don't think I have enough interest and commitment-But just for fun I tried to pick this damn thing 25 or 30 times maybe,and I can't make a sound.Is only me? Is it common when you don't know how to play?Well sometimes I can do it,if I try hard 3 or 4 times,never at first attempt,and if I use an inhuman (well for a 94lbs girl)strenght and use the bow as a dangerous weapon.It looks clumsy,it's fatiguting but it does make a violin sound.But I suppose that's not the right way.You would be exhausted after 15 minutes other than blinding and seriously hurting those who listen.What's the RIGHT way? As I said I don't plan to study,but it would be nice to make some sort of SOUND.I can't play piano,but if I hit a key it makes a sound.I would like all the instruments I try to use to make a sound.With the violin it looks like they turned off the volume.And with my herculean style I break the strings too.


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Subject: RE: Help: Fiddle/Violin question
From: dorareever
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 07:18 PM

"Fatiguting??" what kind of word is that?? I meant fatiguing I guess. Don't we have a spellchecker here?


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Subject: RE: Help: Fiddle/Violin question
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 07:19 PM

Resin


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Subject: RE: Help: Fiddle/Violin question
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 07:22 PM

Got rosin?
If you don't have enough on the bow, it just sort of skates across the strings and you have to press really hard.

Sometimes you get gunk on the bow and the rosin won't stick. The only thing to do is clean the bow. Oil from your hands can do it, either on the bow or on the strings in the place the bow touches. Really, if it's working right, you should need hardly any pressure at all.


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Subject: RE: Help: Fiddle/Violin question
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 07:53 PM

It is the most difficult instrument to play. I can intuitively play many instruments right at the beginning but a bowed instrument requires mimicing breathing with your right hand while the left has only 4 (5 for cello) digits to reproduce all the notes.

Intonation is a matter of micro millimeters while on the piano you have nearly an inch of leeway.

With a music background I have seen people progress in one year what a normal child would accomplish in 5.


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Subject: RE: Help: Fiddle/Violin question
From: Sorcha
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 07:57 PM

I would second the rosin thing, and get a video. Proper postion is really important, esp. where the bow is on the strings.


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Subject: RE: Help: Fiddle/Violin question
From: greg stephens
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 09:00 PM

The problem with learning the fiddle is the noise you make to start with.Do you live with someone? This is where the difficulty can arise.An extraordinary number of beginner fiddlers have been found battered to death with a broken fiddle on the floor beside them.


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Subject: RE: Help: Fiddle/Violin question
From: greg stephens
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 09:02 PM

BUT it is the most exciting, most beautiful instrument in the world.


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Subject: RE: Help: Fiddle/Violin question
From: NicoleC
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 09:49 PM

Yep, sounds like rosin. New bows usually don't have any; and it does wear off. Rosin is cheap and lasts forever.

I doubt that you'll be able to just pick up the violin and noodle around with it. Getting ANY sound out of a violin is easy... getting something that doesn't make the cat hide under the bed and howl is another story :)

SOME study, I would venture to say, is going to be a requirement. Maybe a video tape and a few books will do it for you, but you'll have to practice. If not, a dozen lessons with a teacher or a class will get you to the point where you'll have an idea of what you're doing wrong and the basics of the notes and playing and holding the instrument, etc. Then maybe you can noodle occassionally.


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Subject: RE: Help: Fiddle/Violin question
From: GUEST,Bassic
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 10:38 PM

Typically a new bow, as comes supplied with a Chinese "outfit", will never have had Rosin applied, so no friction between the bow and the strings, so little or no sound! Video is a good idea if you have no other fiddlers in you circle of friends but hours of frustration can be spared with a few lessons or advice from an experienced player. Dont give up, I returned to the violin 35 years after trying it as a child and love it now. Aim for a start, to draw the bow across the strings, just beyond the end of the fingerboard (the long black thing). That should produce an even and controlable tone, also try to keep the bow at 90 degrees to the strings, its difficult when you start `cos the perspective distorts everything. The weight of the bow alone will give a steady sound but applying correct preasure with the right hand fingers is a lesson for annother day!


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Subject: RE: Help: Fiddle/Violin question
From: NicoleC
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 10:51 PM

Uh, I meant that a chunk of rosin will last "practically" forever -- it sure doesn't last forever on the bow!


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Subject: RE: Help: Fiddle/Violin question
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 04:24 AM

Im with greg on this one!!!

Just persevere with it....and relax. Get a video and a good book which shows positioning of bow hand and fingers. When I first started my teacher put little tiny stickers on the finger board where my first and third finger go so I could get used to the position and the sound. Find someone to practice with!

Good luck

Cat


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Subject: RE: Help: Fiddle/Violin question
From: GUEST,Sarah
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 04:48 AM

Don't give up - it sounds great when you've cracked it.

Make sure the bow is taut and well-rosined (don't think there is such a thing as too much rosin).

Position the bow on the strings close to the bridge - try to keep it aimed somewhere towards your left ear.

Try playing in front of a large mirror and continually check your position.

Don't hunch your shoulders (using a Wolf rest under your fiddle will help). The wrist on your bow hand should remain flexible.

Try to relax your body as you play - any tenseness will sound through your playing.

Good luck Sarah


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Subject: RE: Help: Fiddle/Violin question
From: dorareever
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 05:50 PM

Thanks.When I said I didn't want to study I meant I didn't want to go to school or pay a teacher.That's because everything I learnt to do I learnt by myslef,if someone tries to teach me I can't progress. But I don't think I could just pick the violin and playing it without training.That's why I asked,because while I want to do by myself I want to do what is right.


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Subject: RE: Help: Fiddle/Violin question
From: dorareever
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 05:54 PM

I want to practice,study and all.I just don't want a teacher.I can't study with a teacher.


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Subject: RE: Help: Fiddle/Violin question
From: greg stephens
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 05:59 PM

I think youve had bad luck with teachers. There will be a teacher out there for you, believe me.But how to do you find the right one? That's the problem!! if you dont want a rteacher, do talk to other fiddlers as much as possible, not particularly about music but about posture, rests, bows etc etc. You can damage yourself playing the fiddle, because its addictive and you may play too long with a bad posture.


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Subject: RE: Help: Fiddle/Violin question
From: dorareever
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 06:07 PM

Yes,the problem is I don't know fiddlers!! I can write,read,sing and play guitar.all these things,which are basically the 4 things I can do,I learn it without teachers.It would be good to have someone to exchange with,but a teacher who just will sneer at because I don't aim at a classical career scares me. A friend would be better,but I don't think...well I had a friend at school who played violin,but I don't think I have her number anymore. This violin I have is my aunts',she studied (alone) for a year or so,got to the point she could make it sound good and stopped before getting into playing something (tunes I mean.She played something...;))-see I'm still not sure I want to be serious,because I know there's lot of work to do...I'm not sure yet.


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Subject: RE: Help: Fiddle/Violin question
From: Kim C
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 06:25 PM

Get some rosin - and get a teacher. Or at least a video. There are some things about the violin you won't get properly unless you have someone show you. There is a RIGHT way to hold the bow, a RIGHT way to position your hands, your elbows, etc.

I must disagree with Donuel about it being difficult to play. I started at age 31 and was playing well enough to be seen in public within a few months - however I had about 20 years of other instruments behind me at that point. It's challenging, yes, but I find the guitar a lot more difficult. The beauty of the fiddle is, you can play something extremely simple as a beginner, and have it still sound good.

Good luck!


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Subject: RE: Help: Fiddle/Violin question
From: NicoleC
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 06:36 PM

It does sound like you've been burned by bad teachers. If a teacher sneers at you or belittles you, take your money and go home! Nor are all violin teachers stuck on classical. If you've got a folkie music shop in town, they can probably recommend one.

If you do videos, though, I recommend at least one beginner's classical video. They are more likely to cover good position, the proper way to draw the bow, etc.

They aren't cheap, but a fiddle camp might be a fun way to get the basics down.


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Subject: RE: Help: Fiddle/Violin question
From: greg stephens
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 06:52 PM

I was around when that very fine fiddler Kate Barfield was learning to play. I reckon she went from scratch(in both senses) to busking with her first couple of tunes in less than a fortnight. Nothings that difficult. Of course, to play like Kevin Burke will take...as long as he took.


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Subject: RE: Help: Fiddle/Violin question
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 10:52 PM

Smithsonian Magazine once quoted a medical doctor who said "The violin is an instrument designed to destroy the human right arm."

So don't try playing until you have learned the right way to hold it and the right way to move.


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Subject: RE: Help: Fiddle/Violin question
From: Sorcha
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 11:28 PM

Just a question and I don't mean to be rude or impertinent, but I think you need to decide whether you are "serious" about learning fiddle because why do something half-assed? If you decide you are serious, do it right. I understand about the teacher thing because I had one of those in high school and eventually left classical because of her. Took me years to sound like a fiddler instead of a classical violinist playing fiddle tunes but now I have found that the classical training stands me in good stead. I can bounce the bow, use vibrato on slow stuff and don't get tired as quickly as the self taught fiddlers because I have proper form. I also don't get repetitive motion syndrome anywhere from fiddling.


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Subject: RE: Help: Fiddle/Violin question
From: Kim C
Date: 18 Sep 02 - 09:50 AM

I agree with Sorcha... playing an instrument well is a commitment. And there are good teachers out there - you may find one who doesn't charge much. Some folks teach just because they like it - these are the ones who won't wreck your wallet, or your resolve.

I had a lousy voice teacher when I was in college. I asked the dean to switch me to another teacher, which he did; and at the end of the semester, when student evaluations were collected, the teacher in question was gone, and never came back.

But yeah, if it's something you REALLY want to do, take the time to do it right. You'll be much happier, and a lot more confident in your playing.


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