 sj |
||
|
||
BS: Teaching Latin, Using Latin
|
|
|
Subject: Teaching Latin, Using Latin From: Haruo Date: 13 Jun 02 - 03:59 AM Deda introduced me to the Joys of Latinteach.com the other day (sure enough, they were able to identify the source of "Malo, I would rather be", which turns out to be from Benjamin Britten's opera Turn of the Screw) and I've put some serious minutes into it since then. I posted an essay on my experiences studying and teaching Latin, and also a letter in Latin about the masculinity of me and my name. As Deda said, if you like Latin it's a fun place and you should try it. Lelandico Bryante Rosse (ablative of Lelandicus Bryans Rox) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Teaching Latin, Using Latin From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 13 Jun 02 - 05:53 AM Brutus centurio Lelandi salutem eheu me tandem certiorem factum te virum esse! ceterum puto nomen tuum Leland "Lelans, Lelandis" in linguam nostram transferendum, exemplum glandis (quia vir es) sequentem. raptim Gissae Hassorum Wilfried
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Teaching Latin, Using Latin From: GUEST Date: 13 Jun 02 - 08:48 AM Experto Credite...plaudere |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Teaching Latin, Using Latin From: CapriUni Date: 13 Jun 02 - 10:42 AM I love LAtin! Though I had a hard time learning it, and what fluency I did have has faded since High school, I still had fun in my Latin classes. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Teaching Latin, Using Latin From: GUEST Date: 13 Jun 02 - 12:00 PM Our district (36 schools) has a profound history of less than stellar academic rigor. For example, currently in our district office is a "Professional Development Academy" where there is a large wall with 18 inch high letters proclaiming, WE Cogentia Differentius and in smaller letters, "Latin for we think different."
This sort of illiteracy, by an institution of literacy, is a deplorable statement regarding the state of education in the state of California. Latin has not been taught in this district for 25 years. It appears some administrator ran to BableFish and created this display that hundreds of "educated" adults pass every day. None of us that studied Latin dare tell the emperor "he has no clothes." |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Teaching Latin, Using Latin From: JohnInKansas Date: 13 Jun 02 - 12:21 PM Guest - I wonder how they would say "we think differently? The gratuitous "WE" is bad enough, but come-on..., how about English??? John |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Teaching Latin, Using Latin From: Amos Date: 13 Jun 02 - 12:25 PM They should at least make the verb agree with the wrongly included subject!! Actually I think what their sign says is "We are thought about as different" or, more colloquially, People Think We're Weird. LOL! A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Teaching Latin, Using Latin From: Haruo Date: 13 Jun 02 - 12:33 PM At the very least the word before "Think" should be "NOS". ;) Or maybe, to be a bit more consistent, NOBIS (wouldn't want the subject to stick out by its grammaticality!) Liland |
|
Subject: RE: Teaching Latin, Using Latin From: Haruo Date: 13 Jun 02 - 12:42 PM Lelandicus civis Bruto centurione idem But "Lelandicus" is what people actual call me when they try to address me in what they think is Latin. And it has the advantage of being more clearly masculine than Lelans, ndis. Tamen gratiam tibi ago! Lelandico |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Teaching Latin, Using Latin From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 13 Jun 02 - 12:58 PM "It appears some administrator ran to BableFish and created this display " - Babelfish doesn't do Latin yet does it, not even dodgy Latin? It'd be fun if it did. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Teaching Latin, Using Latin From: John Hardly Date: 13 Jun 02 - 01:02 PM impresticus sum |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Teaching Latin, Using Latin From: SINSULL Date: 13 Jun 02 - 01:04 PM Does anyone here teach Latin? It was my major in college and I have many, many books in Latin Greek gathering dust. If someone can use them, I would be happy to donate them to a school or your private library. Be forewarned: I shamelessly wrote translations between the lines in many of them. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Teaching Latin, Using Latin From: Deda Date: 13 Jun 02 - 01:32 PM Lilans, I'm delighted that you're enjoying Latinteach.com. I'm not on it any more except as a rare lurker. What books do you have, Sinsulle? I also have shelves and shelves of Latin books, and a few of Greek. I have had to give up teaching Latin as a day job, to my deep and heartfelt regret (more like a broken heart), because I couldn't make a decent living at it, not having the necessary credentials. However, I keep it up as a hobby, I tutor local university students and homeschool kids. I might be interested in some of your books if you can tell me what you have. I'd pay shipping on any I want. Gratias tibi ago. Cogentia is more meaningless than I'd thought. When I check it on "Whitakers Words" (a fabulous on-line Latin-English dictionary: http://lysy2.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/words.exe) its only meaning is from the verb cogo, to force or compelling -- so it means those (neuter plural, i.e. things) which are forcing more excellently (differentius)! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Teaching Latin, Using Latin From: DonD Date: 13 Jun 02 - 01:32 PM Quo usque tandem abutere, Lelandicus Brutusque, patientia nostra? Mentioning no names, but we've got secret messages in Gaelic passing back and forth already, not to mention quaint barely intelligible Scots dialect and the occasional Cumbrian, are we now to be tormented by Latin, and without translation, to boot? Are Manx, Basque, Quebecoise and Magyar to be next? Soon ther'll be misspellings and typos. Seriously, I'm no "official language" zealot, but I was taught it's poor manners to communicate in general company in a language that not everyone can understand, unless you provide a running interpretation. So ... Who can identify and cap the parapraphased quote above? Salve et vale! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Teaching Latin, Using Latin From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 13 Jun 02 - 01:45 PM "Who can identify and cap the parapraphased quote above?"
Cicero's speech against Catiline. And here's what it sounds like. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Teaching Latin, Using Latin From: GUEST Date: 13 Jun 02 - 02:21 PM I loved "Junior Classical League" while a student in high school. The sectional conventions in California were wonderful weekend affairs. One of my favorite sayings, poor literal Latin but funny in the modern context of a pun was: |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Teaching Latin, Using Latin From: Mrrzy Date: 13 Jun 02 - 03:35 PM All I can remember is Illegitimi non carborundum (don't let the bastards wear you down), carpe diem (seize the day), and De gustibus disputandum non est (there's no arguing about taste); in Astérix the Romans say Ave Cesar, morituri te salutant (Hail Caesar, we who are about to die salute you) while Astérix and Obélix would say Salut, vieux Jules (hey, Julius you old man) instead. (Non, ils ne sont vraiment pas polis!) But in my "locutions latines et étrangères" in my Larousse was a phrase I'd like to start using, lessee if I can remember it... it translated as Maybe this too will be a pleasure to look back on some day. Forsan et haec olim meminisce juvabit? Something like that? But I never took Latin in school. Wish I had. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Teaching Latin, Using Latin From: SINSULL Date: 13 Jun 02 - 04:04 PM NO "Veni, Vidi, Vici", Mrrzy? Another high school witticism: "flunko, flunkere, faculti, fixit" |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Teaching Latin, Using Latin From: SINSULL Date: 13 Jun 02 - 04:12 PM Deda, I have a little of everything. Vergil, Catullus, Tacitus, Lucretius, Ovid, Pliny, Sappho, Euripides, Aeschylus, Plato, etc. About 50 - 100 volumes. Need anything specific? I read recently that Harry Potter has inspired an interest in Latin and Greek and some schools are offering courses in ancient languages in the lower grades. I would love to see someone get some use out of these. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Teaching Latin, Using Latin From: Deda Date: 13 Jun 02 - 05:21 PM Sinsull - I just PMed you. Guest's silly pun "semper ubi sub ubi", is a kid's joke. It pretends to mean "always wear underwear" (Ubi = where, semper always, and sub under). In fact the Latin term for underwear was only recently discovered in a wonderful dig along Hadrian's wall. They found a cache of letters to Roman soldiers from home, one from a Mom saying she had sent him some socks, sandals and "sublugeria" -- which comes from under plus the verb to hang, and which scholars translated as underwear. I guess the cold winters of northern England chilled their mediterranean toes and backsides. I love Latin. I love the process of translating it, using both (A) that careful analytical process of knowing the right endings and their uses & significance, and (B)the intuitive leap of getting what was really meant here. I love discovering that Julius Caesar or Cicero or Catullus made these amazing statements or sort of literary gestures that have such amazing new-ness, as though they just left the room five minutes ago. Rome is just America writ a little smaller. I also love conveying all of this to new people, to little kids or college students or adults. Language is a wonderful thing, and Latin is a wonderful entrance to it. It's a great gift to have. I don't know how many more generations will teach and learn Latin but I'm glad I was here for it. There's a cartoon where the teacher is asking "Can anyone tell me a language which no one now speaks, but which is the basis for so many other languages in constant use?" and a hand goes up in the back, and a timid voice says, "HTML?" |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Teaching Latin, Using Latin From: Haruo Date: 13 Jun 02 - 08:18 PM Deda, I have Seneca's tragedies and Ogden Nash, if you want, to add to SINSULL's offerings. But I would have to charge $5 apiece for them. They're dear to me! DonD, I would think in most threads Latin would be a poor choice for communication, but in this one it's quite appropriate. I chose the thread title deliberately. Did Cicero really say "Lelandicus"??!! ;-) Liland |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Teaching Latin, Using Latin From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 14 Jun 02 - 02:24 AM Mrrzy - Olim meminisse juvat.
DonD - Glad to see that you know your Cicero well. Since you are addressing Liland and me together, (fine to see you using the enclitical -que instead of et) let me tell you Cicero would have use the plural "abutemini". Deda - Thanks for your edifying words about Latin. I never taught it except to improve some children when they had difficulties with Latin because of the usual idleness. There I used your approach (A) and drilled them in morphology first, then syntax and forced them to learn a lot of words. Best success: All their marks climbed up 2 to 3 levels; one girl even presented to me a gift of her home made Xmas cookies. Wilfried |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Teaching Latin, Using Latin From: Bert Date: 14 Jun 02 - 02:34 AM They tried to teach us Latin in school, at least Mr Ives did. He was a wonderful person and all the kids loved him dearly (a rare thing in those days when all teachers were THE ENEMY). But unfortunately he was a bloody useless teacher. Everyone could recite... sum es est sumus estis sunt But I don't recall even one student who finished school who could converse in Latin. Bert (amo, amas, amattress) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Teaching Latin, Using Latin From: GUEST,Crazy Eddie Date: 14 Jun 02 - 03:47 AM Ceasr ad sum jam forte, passus sum sed Antonii. And can anyone translate this (seemingly Latin) inscription from a bowl my brother recently dug up in a field? Itis apiss potanda tinone |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Teaching Latin, Using Latin From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 14 Jun 02 - 06:25 AM bert
Learning Latin does not mean that you are able to converse in Latin any more, alas. When my Latin school was founded in 1543, the pupils were not allowed to speak German, not even when playing on the street, but they had to use Latin. That's an awfully good training. Wilfried |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Teaching Latin, Using Latin From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 14 Jun 02 - 06:33 AM We were in Venice on holiday last year and we noticed these people walking along carrying cats. Our first idea was it must be some Venetian thing, to stop them falling in the canals maybe, but coming round a corner we found ourselves in the middle of a blessing service for cats. It was being carried out by a 96 year old priest, standing on the steps outside the church.
Why it's relevant here is because he kept on switching from Venetian Italian into Latin and back - and we found it much easier to follow the Latin.
I'm hoping at some stage the Latin internet takes off, as an alternative to the English language version. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Teaching Latin, Using Latin From: Deda Date: 14 Jun 02 - 05:07 PM There's a very gifted Latin teacher who is actually a Latinist for the Vatican and who gives summer seminars in the US on spoken Latin; he's a big believer that Latin should be taught as a living language. I've never been able to attend any of his seminars but those who have are wildly enthusiastic. His name has slipped my mind but it's hovering just out of reach. There is also a web site, based in Finland, where world news is published in latin--the only thing is, it's only updated every few weeks so it's usually stale news. There are various Latin chat rooms and threads, where you can discuss anything your heart desires as long as you do it in Latin. Some Elvis songs have been translated, performed, and put out on cassette in Latin. A guy named Henry Beard wrote a very popular book a few years ago translating a lot of modern expressions, pickuplines, etc., into Latin (see below). Several Dr. Seuss books are available in Latin, including How the Grinch stole Xmas, The Cat in the Hat, and Oh, The Places You'll Go (the last one a rather lame, weak translation, imho, but the others are outstanding). All the links you could want to all of this are probably available at www.latinteach.com, and if not you can find any Latin information or reference or web connection you want by posting a query on their chat group. If anyone really wants them, I have the words to "Bye bye Miss American Pie" in Latin, but they're at home. They don't scan.
Important Latin Phrases
Visne saltare? Viam Latam Fungosam scio. Do you want to dance? I know the Funky Broadway.
Radix lecti Couch potato
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Teaching Latin, Using Latin From: GUEST,Gin Date: 14 Jun 02 - 06:54 PM Frightening, to find, one day, when in a French cathedral, that I had been walking round a monument translating it to myself and couldn't remember whether it was in Latin or French...not that I'm very expert in either language! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Teaching Latin, Using Latin From: Haruo Date: 15 Jun 02 - 01:16 AM Crazy Eddie, the ostracon reads "Ecce urna camerae e stanno facta", but in English. McGrath: This thread is the Latin Internet, and I'm told in the Vatican City State the ATMs speak Latin, too. Liland |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Teaching Latin, Using Latin From: wysiwyg Date: 15 Jun 02 - 01:27 AM In an international forum, IMO any language goes; and was there someone who confused Mudcat with a polite place??????? ~S~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Teaching Latin, Using Latin From: GUEST Date: 16 Jun 02 - 01:39 AM Ah yes, a first phrase in our Latin I book, in an attempt to make it modern in the 60's. Picum Nicum (picknic) |