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BS: the origin of Taig/Taigh
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Subject: the origin of Taig/Taigh From: tremodt Date: 14 Apr 02 - 05:09 PM Taig/Taigh is a northern Ireland word refering to Catholic What is its origing how did it get started Thanks Ron |
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Subject: RE: BS: the origin of Taig/Taigh From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 14 Apr 02 - 05:34 PM Well it means "poet" in the Irish. I realise that's not an answer, but it makes it rather a grand insult to have thrown at you.
I'd imagine it's very possibly from the first line of Lillibulero. - "Ho brother Teague, dost hear de decree?" But that's just a guess. |
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Subject: RE: BS: the origin of Taig/Taigh From: GUEST,Philippa Date: 14 Apr 02 - 06:09 PM Tadhg is a first name, but I never heard it meant poet. It's like Mick, Paddy, Jock, Taffy - also names. There are some sayings in Irish such as "Tadhg an mhargaidh" -the man in the street, "Tadhg Ó Rodaí" Mr so-and-so and "Tadhg an dá thaobh" - a two-faced person. The latter is the only one I'm really familiar with, the others I got from a dictionary ... probably Tadhg was a more common name in the past than it is now. Words for a poet are "file" (almost rhymes with Cilla) and "bard" |
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Subject: RE: BS: the origin of Taig/Taigh From: MartinRyan Date: 14 Apr 02 - 06:39 PM A dictionary of historical slang dates it to 17 Cent. in the general sense of a nickname for an Irish man. It dates the Ulster sense of "Roman Catholic" to about 1900. Regards |
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Subject: RE: BS: the origin of Taig/Taigh From: MartinRyan Date: 14 Apr 02 - 06:52 PM Incidentally, McGrathofHarlow, I see a web reference to the "poet/philosopher" meaning, in both Scots and Irish Gaelic. I've never seen the word used in that sense and would guess that, if it existed, it was as a very early root for the name itself - which variously becomes Thaddeus, Thady and even Tim! Regards |
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Subject: RE: BS: the origin of Taig/Taigh From: Seamus Kennedy Date: 15 Apr 02 - 03:14 AM I always was told that it was a variant of "Timothy." Hence the Scots/Rangers song: "I'm No' A Proddy, I'm A Tim." Any takers? Seamus |
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Subject: RE: BS: the origin of Taig/Taigh From: GUEST,Crazy Eddie Date: 15 Apr 02 - 04:52 AM Seamus, Yes, Tadhg (pronounced approx. Taig) Corresponds to Timothy or Tim, as Seamus does to James. The word "Tim" as used in Glasgow, meaning "a Celtic Supporter/ A Catholic/ An Irish [descended] person" certainly matches closely with the meaning of "Taig" as used Northern Ireland. |
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Subject: RE: BS: the origin of Taig/Taigh From: Fiolar Date: 15 Apr 02 - 05:19 AM According to "Slanguage - A Dictionary of Irish Slang" there is a mention in a play by John Durant Breval in his 1718 play "The Play is the Plot" with the following dialogue: 'CARBINE: Thou hast the brogue a little sure. JEREMY: As well as any Teague of 'em all Sir, if that can do your honour any kindness.' |
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Subject: RE: BS: the origin of Taig/Taigh From: GUEST,Martin Ryan Date: 15 Apr 02 - 07:42 AM Fiolar In fact it seems to have been quite common in England at that stage - and earlier. No religious connotation. The "poet" meaning is in Dineen's dictionary of Irish, incidentally. Mind you, the only reference he gives is to an old scholarly glossary of Irish - which again sugests that it was not current. Regards p.s "Teagueland" was used as slang for Ireland! |
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Subject: RE: BS: the origin of Taig/Taigh From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 15 Apr 02 - 08:23 AM The 1718 quote would tie in with Lillibulero as the start of it, since that was current at the time of the coup that overthrew James II in 1688.
I don't know if there's any evidence of it being used as as a general term for Irish (equivalent to the way Paddy or Mick are used) earlier than that, or if it was just a random name used by whoever wrote the song.
The only other song I can think of with a version of the name is the bold Thady Quill , though I'm sure there must be others. (That's leaving aside the ones with Tim or Timothy.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: the origin of Taig/Taigh From: GUEST,Martin Ryan Date: 15 Apr 02 - 08:43 AM Mind you, it seems unlikely Lord Wharton invented the term! I think my Historical Slang dictionary gives one earlier reference - I'll check it later. The word's appearance in 18/19 C. collections of criminal/underworld English slang suggests widespread use. |
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Subject: RE: BS: the origin of Taig/Taigh From: tremodt Date: 15 Apr 02 - 01:35 PM you catters are great you always come through thank you all for your input ron |
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Subject: RE: BS: the origin of Taig/Taigh From: Seamus Kennedy Date: 16 Apr 02 - 01:48 AM Kevin, I suspect that Thady is a diminutive of Thaddeus, and not related to Tadhg/Taig/Teague/Timothy at all. Funny - up in the North we pronounce it "Taig." whereas down South it's more "Tige" with a hard "g". All the best. Seamus |
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Subject: RE: BS: the origin of Taig/Taigh From: MartinRyan Date: 16 Apr 02 - 03:26 AM Tadhg/Thaddeus/Thady is plausible enough - its how Tim got in on the act that fascinates me! Regards |
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Subject: RE: BS: the origin of Taig/Taigh From: GUEST,Martin Ryan Date: 16 Apr 02 - 05:00 AM Here's an interesting item by a genuine Tadgh. He balmes it on the English, basically. Regards |
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Subject: RE: BS: the origin of Taig/Taigh From: GUEST Date: 16 Apr 02 - 05:06 AM Another possible explanation for the Glaswegian use of "Tim" originates from the Glasgow Razor gangs of the 60s. There were 2 gang leaders - Tim Malloy & Billy Fullerton. Tim Malloy was the leader of a "catholic" gang and Billy Fullerton a "protestant" gang. Celtic fans have since been referred to as Tims and Rangers fans as Billy Boys (this term is often mistakenly thought as coming from King Billy). |
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Subject: RE: BS: the origin of Taig/Taigh From: Moleskin Joe Date: 16 Apr 02 - 08:05 AM Guest's explanation of "Tim" is correct. |
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Subject: RE: BS: the origin of Taig/Taigh From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 16 Apr 02 - 08:21 AM But Tim's a puzzler. I'd have thought that the logical way to English it would have been to turn it into Edward, with its abbreviation Teddy. That is after all pretty close to Thady.
That site Martin gave the link to is murder on the eyes, and the voice coming in without warning pronouncing the name is a bit of a shock. But it seems to have the stuff. Except I've never heard it mispronounced to rhyme with "league" even by people who might use it as an insult. But then I suppose it'd depend how you pronounce league as well, whether it rhymes or not. |
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Subject: RE: BS: the origin of Taig/Taigh From: Fiolar Date: 16 Apr 02 - 09:22 AM Apparently the word migrated to Australia in the 1940s where it got further corrupted to "Tyke." |
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Subject: RE: BS: the origin of Taig/Taigh From: IanC Date: 16 Apr 02 - 09:46 AM Fiolar Far as I know, "Tyke" relates to a Yorkshireman. Is it also used of the Irish in Australia?
:-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: the origin of Taig/Taigh From: GUEST,Martin Ryan Date: 16 Apr 02 - 09:50 AM McGrathofHarlow Should have warned you of that! I've no sound card in this machine, so I missed out on the ghostly voice! Regards Martin |
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Subject: RE: BS: the origin of Taig/Taigh From: Big Tim Date: 16 Apr 02 - 04:01 PM From "Irish Names" by Donnchadh O'Corrain and Fidelma Maguire. Lilliput Press, 1981. "TADC; TADHG 'teig' m, 'a poet'. This name was relatively common in the early period and became extremely popular later. Brian Boru has a son, Tadc, who died in 1023. Among the kings of Connacht of the name are Tadc mac Cathail, who died in 925, and Tadc an Eich Gil ('of the bright steed'), who died in 1030. One of the greatest of the later bardic poets was Tadc Dall o hUiginn [1550-1591, dall = 'blind'] . In modern Irish Tadc, one of the commonest of names, is used as Jack in English. Tadhg an mhargaidh or Tadgh na sraide means 'the man in the street'; Tadgh na scuab means 'the man in the moon'. In the 19th century it was generally anglicised as Thady but it was also rendered Thaddaeus, Theophilus and Theodosius. In the north it was generally anglicised Teague, a name applied to all Catholics. Timothy, Tim and Ted are now the most commonly used equivalents. All these later substitutions are of courses totally different names of biblical or classical origin. Timothy was already borrowed as Tiamdae in the Old Irish period". |
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Subject: RE: BS: the origin of Taig/Taigh From: GUEST,Marie in the US Date: 11 Oct 02 - 12:21 PM Hello, I live in the US I am going to have a baby boy in a month and would like to name him "Teague" which I thought rhymes with "league". I love this name and this pronunciation-but now have a feeling that I should not pronounce it this way-but like "tiger" without the r. Anyone know if it is ok to pronounce it the first way? |
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Subject: RE: BS: the origin of Taig/Taigh From: Big Tim Date: 11 Oct 02 - 12:59 PM Rhymes with plague! Good luck. |
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Subject: RE: BS: the origin of Taig/Taigh From: Nerd Date: 11 Oct 02 - 01:20 PM No one has yet mentioned the great Cork songwriter Tadhg Jordan, who wrote or adapted some great Cork songs such as "Johnny Jump Up." Surely a great musical Tadhg! |
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Subject: RE: BS: the origin of Taig/Taigh From: Fiolar Date: 12 Oct 02 - 05:20 AM Actually the Irish pronounciation rhymes with "tie-ag." |
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Subject: RE: BS: the origin of Taig/Taigh From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 12 Oct 02 - 06:39 AM The trouble with rhyming words as a guide to pronunciation is that the rhymes get pronounced differently in different places. For example "glass" and "pass" rhyme both in Yorkshire or London, but they don't sound the same in the two places. |