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Subject: Glencoe Massacre From: greg stephens Date: 12 Mar 02 - 10:28 AM For those contributors who enjoy re-fighting old battles ( and I've noticed a few)...anybody got any thoughts on the fact that the new manager of the Glencoe Visitors' Centre is called Roddy Campbell? Search for "glencoe" threadsGlencoe in the Digital Tradition. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Glencoe Massacre From: Maryrrf Date: 12 Mar 02 - 10:39 AM Well, it brought a chuckle to my day! I'll bet he takes a lot of kidding about that! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Glencoe Massacre From: greg stephens Date: 12 Mar 02 - 11:25 AM I sort of imagine that all vistors are asked to sign in the Guest Book, and anybody who writes McDonald is discreetly asked if they would like to go into the Special Room. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Glencoe Massacre From: BanjoRay Date: 12 Mar 02 - 11:49 AM I wonder if they'll let him in the Clachaig? Cheers |
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Subject: RE: BS: Glencoe Massacre From: The Walrus at work Date: 12 Mar 02 - 02:10 PM Apparently, the visitor centre was not popular, locally, in the first place. Giving the job of managing it to a Campbell is seen as adding insult to injury. Mr Campbell was on the radio trying to justify his ancestors' actions (I missed it - I had a bus to catch) but it seemed to take the form "They were only obeying orders" (sound familiar?) Walrus |
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Subject: RE: BS: Glencoe Massacre From: GUEST,BOAB Date: 13 Mar 02 - 02:05 AM The massacre was an unsavoury episode in Scotland's story---but no where near the bloodiest. The Campbells were NOT the main culprits involved--they were even a minority among the government troops who took part. The lion's share of blame belongs with the British government, and on the head of King William of Orange. Or, if you want to get right to the root---the Young Pretender, who brainwashed some [by no means all] of the calns into believing they were in a fight for Scotland's freedom, when in fact Charles Edward Stewart's ONLY interest was in the British throne, and "the Divine Right of Kings". Now there was a cause worth fighting AGAINST! In the words of an old miner poet of my acquaintance "Scotland's Heritage frae Stewart kings--the Graves amang the Heather". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Glencoe Massacre From: Cappuccino Date: 13 Mar 02 - 04:55 AM Was it Alastair McDonald who wrote the great song about it, 'cruel is the snow which sweeps Glencoe', and which includes the line 'the Campbell had orders King William had signed'? (And, before I hit 'submit message' on this, I realised I had written Alastair Campbell. Oh dear, that would really have screwed things up!) - Ian B |
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Subject: RE: BS: Glencoe Massacre From: Scabby Douglas Date: 13 Mar 02 - 08:01 AM Boab.. a lot of what you say has some validity - however - the Young Pretender could not be blamed for any of the Glencoe incidents - as he would not be born for another 28 years. Nor even could his father "The Old Pretender", as he was only 4 years old at the time. However, there's plenty of blame to go around... Cheers
Steven |
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Subject: RE: BS: Glencoe Massacre From: greg stephens Date: 13 Mar 02 - 08:14 AM We could certainly blame the Old Pretender's dad, James II(of England that is), probably the most serious nuisance of those serious serial nuisances the Stuart kings.They took a lot of getting rid of, we decapitated Charles I, kicked James II out, and still the basteards kept coming, Old Pretenders, Young Pretenders, the Great Pretender. isn't there still one of them lurking in Belgium somewhere trying to gather the clans. Sod off the lot of you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Glencoe Massacre From: kendall Date: 13 Mar 02 - 08:20 AM As I understand it, it was the King's representitive, My Dalrymple, who overstepped his authority and ordered the massacre. Also, how come no one ever mentions the time the McDonalds attacked the McCleods in church? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Glencoe Massacre From: kendall Date: 13 Mar 02 - 08:26 AM If you are not familiar with the song, THE PIPER'S REFRAIN, have a look. It is one of the best songs written in recent years. It's in the DT. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Glencoe Massacre From: The Walrus at work Date: 13 Mar 02 - 08:45 AM Kendall, Presumably the McDonalds hadn't been enjoying the Mcleods' hospitality up to the point of the attack. I think that was the point that rankled at the time, not that one side tried to massacre the other, but that the offenders were guests. Walrus |
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Subject: RE: BS: Glencoe Massacre From: sledge Date: 13 Mar 02 - 09:39 AM It all took place 300 years ago, time to get over it I think. How often do we sit and take in the world news and shake our heads over stories detailing massacres in the Balkans, the roots of which go back hundreds of years asking how does this happen. To keep going on about this Campbell/McDonald issue in this way keeps the animosity alive and well and the potential for violence is then just around the corner. Get over it, after all I don't hold any ill feelings against the descendants of William the first or the poeople of Normandy for conquering England. :) Sledge |
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Subject: RE: BS: Glencoe Massacre From: kendall Date: 13 Mar 02 - 01:31 PM History is history. Get over that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Glencoe Massacre From: kendall Date: 13 Mar 02 - 01:37 PM That sounded kinda snotty. Sorry. I majored in history in college because I have a deep seated interest in what happened, and why it happened. I have no intention of perpetuating the animosity of that incident,(I married a Campbell)it's just that I am intrigued by the thought processes of other people. If everyone thought like me, there would be no Glen Coe massacre, hallocaust, slavery, Taliban etc. BORING! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Glencoe Massacre From: John Routledge Date: 13 Mar 02 - 01:48 PM Glencoe itself is forbidding even without the massacre. I have to say though that Glencoe's history adds a very magical quality to the area. Experience it if you can. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Glencoe Massacre From: GUEST,Hamshank Date: 13 Mar 02 - 01:58 PM I come from MacDonald stock, and my mother-in-law's maiden name was MacDonald. I have nothing against present-day Campbells because of what their ancestors did 300 years ago at Glencoe, so long as they don't try to excuse it. Byegones. HS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Glencoe Massacre From: GUEST,Jim Stewart Date: 13 Mar 02 - 02:51 PM The song was written by Scotsman Jim McLean. And leave the Stewarts alone or I'll start picking on the Kennedys. Or the Clintons. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Glencoe Massacre From: Leeder Date: 13 Mar 02 - 04:05 PM Last evening the CBC radio program "As It Happens" did a phone interview with a Mr. McDonald who was deploring, somewhat tongue-in-cheek, the fact that a Campbell was running the centre. He said he went into the restaurant and asked, "Do you serve Campbells?" When they said "Yes", he said, "Give me two on toast." An amusing interview. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Glencoe Massacre From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 13 Mar 02 - 07:07 PM Meself I'd prefer James II to his successors. That is not saying a great deal. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Glencoe Massacre From: kendall Date: 13 Mar 02 - 07:38 PM Is this Guest Stewart THE Jim Stewart? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Glencoe Massacre From: Troll Date: 14 Mar 02 - 12:20 AM John Campbell of Glenlyon commanded the troops that committed the Glencoe Massacre. The son of Alistair MacIain (The chief of the Glencoe MacDonalds) John of Achtriatan had married the widdow of one of Glenlyons relatives and he used this "kinship" to persuade the MacDonalds to quarter his troops. He had a grudge against Alistair since a raid by the MacDonalds had so ruined him that he had to seek a commission in the English army. But the orders were signed by William II at the connivance of Mr. Dalrymple, the Master of Stair and -some say-Campbell of Breadalbane. During the uprising in 1715, Achtiratan and Glenlyons grandson met, made peace, and the two clans fought side by side. My family name is Johnson. It was changed during the American Revolution from "McKeen" according to my great-grandmother. McKeen is a variant spelling for MacIain. troll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Glencoe Massacre From: paddymac Date: 14 Mar 02 - 02:26 AM Jim Stewart - Why doncha pick an easy target? Just be sure to sweep up when your done with the lot of 'em. :>) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Glencoe Massacre From: GUEST,Boab Date: 14 Mar 02 - 02:48 AM OOPS!!Scabby Doug---you're dead right!---I got my sixteens and seventeens in a twist, didn't I?!? I still stick by the over-emphasis on the part the Campbells played, though---- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Glencoe Massacre From: kendall Date: 14 Mar 02 - 07:00 AM I know a Scot whiose mother is fond of saying about the Campbells, "Aye, they come from a dirty nest"! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Glencoe Massacre From: Scabby Douglas Date: 14 Mar 02 - 07:23 AM Hmmmm Just so I've nailed my colours (as it were) to the mast.. My middle name (from my maternal grandmother's family) is Campbell.. Cheers Steven |
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Subject: RE: BS: Glencoe Massacre From: PeteBoom Date: 14 Mar 02 - 08:14 AM ScabbyDoug - we won't blame you personally for that. We'll blame your parents! ;-) (And we won't turn our backs after granting you hospitality...) Pete |
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Subject: RE: BS: Glencoe Massacre From: Teribus Date: 14 Mar 02 - 09:50 AM Scabby Doug, Be proud of it!! The major source of animosity directed at the Campbells stemmed from nothing other than jealousy - History bears out the fact that they were a damn sight more astute at picking which side was going to win in any conflict situation. Others did it in a different way by splitting what different members of the family did - father/eldest son supporting one side while the younger supported the other. That way no matter what side prevailed the family lands remained intact, the losers heading off to exile for a while. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Glencoe Massacre From: greg stephens Date: 14 Mar 02 - 10:02 AM Yes, and their loyal followers got six feet of peat. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Glencoe Massacre From: GUEST,Jim Stewart Date: 14 Mar 02 - 04:01 PM Kendall wonders if I'm THE Jim Stewart. Of course, old buddy! You mean there's more than one of me?? There's a frightening thought!! I look forward to the pleasure of your company once again, good sir. May it be soon. All of us that know you are damn proud that we do. -Jim
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Subject: RE: BS: Glencoe Massacre From: kendall Date: 14 Mar 02 - 05:18 PM May I tell what I know about you Jim? I mean, other than being one hell of a song writer? How you got the nick name?? huh? huh? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Glencoe Massacre From: The Walrus Date: 14 Mar 02 - 06:09 PM Troll, "....But the orders were signed by William II at the connivance of Mr. Dalrymple, ..." I trust that you are referring to the Scottish succession there, otherwise the orders might have been a little out of date by the 1690s (William II of England died in the 12th Century). Walrus |
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Subject: RE: BS: Glencoe Massacre From: Jon Bartlett Date: 15 Mar 02 - 01:54 AM FYI: A medal commemorating (?) this event is just now being auctioned on eBay. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Glencoe Massacre From: Troll Date: 15 Mar 02 - 02:18 AM Walrus. Right you are. William the Conqueror, William Rufus, and William of Orange. It was William the Threeth and not the Tooth. I stand abashed and covered with rue. troll |
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Subject: RE: History & Present: Glencoe Massacre From: GUEST,Legs Date: 25 Nov 03 - 11:13 AM Dear Trol I need to know how many people were killed in the glencoe massacre, 2 facts about it, when and where it happened. Please! Legs |
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Subject: RE: History & Present: Glencoe Massacre From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 25 Nov 03 - 11:43 AM 13 February, 1692. "Over thirty" killed. |
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Subject: RE: History & Present: Glencoe Massacre From: GUEST Date: 25 Nov 03 - 11:46 AM Feb.13, 1692. 38 men, women & children. More here: http://www.electricscotland.com/books/paterson/glencoe.htm |
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Subject: RE: History & Present: Glencoe Massacre From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 25 Nov 03 - 11:48 AM It, of course, happened at Glencoe, a glen in northern Argylshire, seat of the Macdonald of Glencoe. |
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Subject: RE: History & Present: Glencoe Massacre From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 25 Nov 03 - 11:55 AM The exact number killed is open to conjecture. Most of the Macdonalds escaped. No one was ever prosecuted, but the master of Stair and Breadalbane, who is believed to be the instigator, lost his position as secretary of state after an inquiry held three years after the massacre. The Macdonald and his followers were six days late to swear allegiance to the crown (King William), and his sept was punished in this manner by Campbell of Glenlyon. |
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Subject: RE: History & Present: Glencoe Massacre From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 25 Nov 03 - 12:29 PM If anything this kind of thing seems routine practice in modern wars. |
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Subject: RE: History & Present: Glencoe Massacre From: GUEST Date: 25 Nov 03 - 12:50 PM Too true McGrath! Even at the time this happened it was only too common. The infamy of the event itself, was overshadowed by the violation of the hospitality. |
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Subject: RE: History & Present: Glencoe Massacre From: akenaton Date: 25 Nov 03 - 09:45 PM My old grandfather used to talk of the three "scourges" of Scotland... "The midges, the bracken, and the Campbells"....Ake |
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Subject: RE: History & Present: Glencoe Massacre From: LadyJean Date: 26 Nov 03 - 12:53 AM If I remember John Prebble's book on the massacre correctly, the S.O.B. in charge was heard to say, "I'd dirk any man in the kingdom if the king but gave the word." People like that should not be encouraged. |
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Subject: RE: History & Present: Glencoe Massacre From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 26 Nov 03 - 01:47 PM Gee, LadyJean- just a loyal royalist doing his duty! |
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Subject: RE: History & Present: Glencoe Massacre From: Melani Date: 26 Nov 03 - 02:30 PM I'm a Russell--did they do anything terrible? (or good, for that matter?) Jim Stewart--by all accounts, the Stewarts tended to be handsome, charming folks--just not real good at being monarchs. Feel free to light into the Kennedys and the Clintons--nobody's perfect. |
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Subject: RE: History & Present: Glencoe Massacre From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 26 Nov 03 - 03:05 PM The massacre- the beginnings of Campbell's tomato soup. |
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