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BS: Leeks vs Daffodils
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Subject: Leeks vs Daffodils From: JudeL Date: 01 Mar 02 - 04:59 AM Most countries have just one plant associated with their country ; England - rose, Ireland - shamrock, Scotland - thistle, Canada - maple-leaf. In Wales we have both the leek and the daffodil , does anyone know why? BTW Today is St. David's day, a date remembered by those who grew up in Wales, as a day the infant and primary schools dress up and all schools had a half day off. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Leeks vs Daffodils From: Nigel Parsons Date: 01 Mar 02 - 05:55 AM Half day for Dydd Gwyl Dewi (Festival Day of David) is long since gone. The leek (currently being re-standardised by the EU) was worn by Welshmen in battle, having been torn from the ground as a method of distinguishing two opposing (similarly dressed) armies. Shakespeare has Henry V wearing a leek upon the feast of St David "For a memorable honour, I am Welsh you know" Mostly today (and for the Rugby international tomorrow) you will see the Welsh flag (red dragon on Green field below white sky) being flown. But the flag of St David (flown by those who know,) is similar to the Cornish flag, and comprises a Gold (upright) cross on a black background. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Leeks vs Daffodils From: AllisonA(Animaterra) Date: 01 Mar 02 - 06:51 AM No help on daffodils, but this page tells a bit about St. David and shows the flag Nigel describes. My mother's coming over for leed soup today! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Leeks vs Daffodils From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 01 Mar 02 - 07:04 AM The Dragon is far better.
I'm very glad to see that on the pound coins, (which are made in different versions for the various countries in the United Kingdoms, though they can all be used interchangeably), they now have a dragon instead of the drooping oddity they used to have, which I think may have been a leek.
(They grow much bigger leeks I understand in the North of England.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Leeks vs Daffodils From: Nigel Parsons Date: 01 Mar 02 - 07:25 AM Slight correction for McG of H. The pound coins are not producedwith different designs for the various countries in U.K. Although this is the system the E.U. have adopted. Each year, one country is represented on the coins, so the system is cyclical. In each year, only one country (or the U.K./Royal coat of Arms) is represented. The Irish have also seen both the shamrock & a Celtic cross: England have seen the 3 Lions & the Crowned Oak. With regard to leek sizes, Is size important? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Leeks vs Daffodils From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 01 Mar 02 - 07:53 AM That's a crafty way of doing it - I wondfered how come any time you got a hgnadfil of cahnge you get some from all over.
There's an Isle of Man version too, and I dougt if that's produced on a cyclical version throughouit the UK, since the Isle of Man issn't actually in the UK, it's got a peculiar special status. I've only ever seen one of them in Harlow.
If and when the Euro comes in I imagine there'll be a battle royal between those Welsh who want the dragon on the other side, and the ones who want the Queen. Maybe they could come out with a version of the dragon with the Queen's head on it... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Leeks vs Daffodils From: The Walrus at work Date: 01 Mar 02 - 08:27 AM To all the Welsh out there - Happy St David's Day Walrus |
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Subject: RE: BS: Leeks vs Daffodils From: HuwG Date: 01 Mar 02 - 08:34 AM Isle of Man coins and notes are not legal tender in Britain; although, since the coins are the same size, they can (physically, though not lawfully) be used in vending machines, one-armed bandits, etc. I believe that Lloyd George (PM 1916 - 1922) forced the adoption of the daffodil as Wales's national flower. Why, I don't know. One might argue that a leek is not a flower but a vegetable; but by the same token, one could say that the shamrock is a weed, and the thistle a statutory nuisance. Leek soup for me too, and bara brith on the side plate. Dydd da |
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Subject: RE: BS: Leeks vs Daffodils From: Mrrzy Date: 01 Mar 02 - 09:01 AM Ah, I has always wondered why the British associate leeks with the Welsh. I don't think Americans do, at least the only reason I do is that I read a lot of British books as a kid (and still do, now that I think of it). Happy Leek Day! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Leeks vs Daffodils From: Skipper Jack Date: 01 Mar 02 - 09:03 AM There's a legend about the English army confronting the French army on the field of battle. As the both armies marched towards each other the front lines were singing the same battle song. It turned out that the Welshmen were actually facing their Celtic cousins, the Bretons! I presume that this took place during the 100 years war. Whether the battle got going after that I really don't know? The Breton national anthem so I understand is not all that different from the Welsh national anthem "Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau"
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Subject: RE: BS: Leeks vs Daffodils From: JudeL Date: 01 Mar 02 - 09:10 AM Nigel: you mean to tell me the powers that be have stopped the half day for St. David's day - that really sad, another part of our cultural heritage sacrificed to Whitehall we-know-best progressive standardisation bullshit! Sorry folks for the rant - but it upsets me when another part of the fun of being allowed to be a child gets ripped away, and often for no better reason than some obscure party political one-upmanship. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Leeks vs Daffodils From: sian, west wales Date: 01 Mar 02 - 10:45 AM It might as well be a half-day for schools here in Carmarthen. The kids all dress up in 'national costume' and parade through the town, and the schools take turns singing on the main square. Really a nice day, and we've got great weather for it today as well. Have to get making Welsh cakes this evening! Sian |
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Subject: RE: BS: Leeks vs Daffodils From: Jon Freeman Date: 01 Mar 02 - 10:54 AM I'm racking my brains over the 1/2 day. Maybe we had one but its certainly nothing that sticks out in my mind and I can be certain that we never dressed up in costume. I was in Glanwydden (a couple of miles from Llandudno) primary school roughly 1967 to 71 followed by 2 years of secondary school in Llandudno (before moving to Kent). mrrzzy, get some leeks and join in! I'd forgotten it was March 1st today but I quite fancy some leeks in cheese sauce for tea... Jon |
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Subject: RE: BS: Leeks vs Daffodils From: Long Firm Freddie Date: 01 Mar 02 - 10:54 AM The leek is the original emblem. The Welsh for leek is ceninen - which is also the Welsh for daffodil. The daffodil makes a better buttonhole, but it's something of a johnny-come-lately. LFF |
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Subject: RE: BS: Leeks vs Daffodils From: SharonA Date: 01 Mar 02 - 11:22 AM Nigel asks: "With regard to leek sizes, Is size important?" Bert doesn't seem to be around today, so I'll answer as I think he would: "Size doesn't matter – it's how you cook it, you see!" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Leeks vs Daffodils From: GUEST,Airto Date: 01 Mar 02 - 12:25 PM McGrath said, talking about coins: "Maybe they could come out with a version of the dragon with the Queen's head on it..." I thought she already was a bit of a dragon. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Leeks vs Daffodils From: Llanfair Date: 01 Mar 02 - 12:37 PM Not much evidence of celebration here, but the sun is shining, and the daffs are in flower, homage to Dewi sant. Cheers, Bron. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Leeks vs Daffodils From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 01 Mar 02 - 01:14 PM "The Welsh for leek is ceninen - which is also the Welsh for daffodil."
I'm trying to imagine what happens to Wordsworth's poem when it is translated into Welsh.
I wander'd lonely as a cloud
It somehow doesn't feel the same. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Leeks vs Daffodils From: Mrrzy Date: 01 Mar 02 - 01:28 PM Right - or the AA Milne poem called Daffodowndilly - Leekodownlilly? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Leeks vs Daffodils From: dick greenhaus Date: 01 Mar 02 - 01:33 PM And then there's the famous Welch cookbook: "..Take a Leek..." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Leeks vs Daffodils From: wildlone Date: 01 Mar 02 - 03:24 PM Dick, at least you spell Welch properly, dave, pioneer 23rd foot RWF. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Leeks vs Daffodils From: sian, west wales Date: 01 Mar 02 - 03:37 PM Well, actually 'daffodil' is 'cenhinen Bedr'. sian |
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Subject: RE: BS: Leeks vs Daffodils From: Dave the Gnome Date: 01 Mar 02 - 03:48 PM Look you boyo Me da's just brought me a bunch of leeks, no, sorry, daffodils, for Drydd Gwyll Dewi. So if daffs is good enough for me da (he's Polish btw) they're good enough for anyone!!! And I know, coz I was there... Nos Da Dai the Gnome |
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Subject: RE: BS: Leeks vs Daffodils From: Gareth Date: 01 Mar 02 - 06:50 PM Ahh ! DTG, the 23rd of Foot. That well known Welch regiment, Recruited in Brumingham ! Gareth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Leeks vs Daffodils From: Nigel Parsons Date: 02 Mar 02 - 11:38 AM McG. There are also equal sized Pound coins produced by Guernsey & Jersey. (Just thought you'd like to know). They also fit in machines, so most people don't notice they've got them. People notice the I.O.M. ones because they only have a half milled edge (i.e. milled section, smooth section, etc. I think in 4 or 8 sections around the edge.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Leeks vs Daffodils From: pavane Date: 02 Mar 02 - 07:48 PM So is it Welch or Welsh? Either way, the Welsh must be one of the few people who call themselves foreigners - the word Welsh being derived from an (?Anglo-)Saxon word for foreign. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Leeks vs Daffodils From: Hrothgar Date: 02 Mar 02 - 08:01 PM I suppose that if Britain accepts the Euro, all these different coins will be im-pound-ed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Leeks vs Daffodils From: Long Firm Freddie Date: 03 Mar 02 - 03:22 AM A further search of the net shows that the full Welsh name for the leek is Cenhinen Pedr, which translates as Peter's leek. Unfortunately, I can't discover why it is so called. Anyone know? LFF |
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Subject: RE: BS: Leeks vs Daffodils From: sian, west wales Date: 03 Mar 02 - 09:49 AM Ah, but, Pavanne ... Welsh-speakers use "Cymry", not "Welsh" so we don't refer to ourselves as foreigners! No reason why non-Welsh-speakers can't use Cymry as well. Brings to mind the background to the name "Canada" ... sian |
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Subject: RE: BS: Leeks vs Daffodils From: Nigel Parsons Date: 03 Mar 02 - 11:29 AM It's Cymru, not Cymry. The letter "y" is the only example that stops Welsh (Cymraeg) as being described as a phonetic language. The pronunciation changes dependant upon the letter's position in a word. "Ty" = tee: Cymru = Come Ree Before anyone says there are double letters/dipthongs in Welsh which are not phonetic, these are separate letters "ch" "dd" "ll" "ff" etc. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Leeks vs Daffodils From: sian, west wales Date: 03 Mar 02 - 04:08 PM Cymru is the country. Cymry are the people (single masculine = Cymro, single feminine= Cymraes) sian, gorllewin Cymru, Cymraes |
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Subject: RE: BS: Leeks vs Daffodils From: Elf Date: 04 Mar 02 - 12:02 AM Hrothgar, somehow I can't see Britain adopting the Euro. At least not until the US does. We never do anything over here until America tries it first. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Leeks vs Daffodils From: HuwG Date: 04 Mar 02 - 04:40 AM Just found that I can use a Hungarian 10-Forint coin in a public telephone kiosk, in spite of it being very slightly lighter and smaller than a British 10-pence coin. Anyone know the rate of exchange ? Am I throwing away a fortune ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Leeks vs Daffodils From: Nigel Parsons Date: 04 Mar 02 - 07:55 AM HuwG: did you mention the 10 Forint for a purpose ? or was it just Forinterest's sake ? |