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BS: Are audiences more accepting than booker

Phil Cooper 27 Jan 02 - 07:52 PM
Clinton Hammond 27 Jan 02 - 07:59 PM
Sorcha 27 Jan 02 - 08:09 PM
wysiwyg 27 Jan 02 - 08:15 PM
dick greenhaus 27 Jan 02 - 08:27 PM
Sorcha 27 Jan 02 - 08:38 PM
Phil Cooper 27 Jan 02 - 10:06 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 27 Jan 02 - 10:13 PM
Phil Cooper 27 Jan 02 - 11:34 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 28 Jan 02 - 02:51 AM
M.Ted 28 Jan 02 - 11:00 AM
Charlie Baum 28 Jan 02 - 02:44 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 28 Jan 02 - 03:16 PM
Phil Cooper 28 Jan 02 - 03:30 PM
M.Ted 28 Jan 02 - 05:42 PM

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Subject: Are audiences more accepting than booker
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 27 Jan 02 - 07:52 PM

Just a passing thought. But for folks who attend or perform at folk concerts, do you think, generally, that the audiences are more accepting of all types of folk music than the bookers? I've found over the years as a performer that we've generally gone over well with audiences of all sorts. So when told by potential bookers that they don't think our repertoire would go over, is generally a way of being told that we're not their cup of tea.

Shoe on the other foot, I found in years as a concert committee member that the audience we drew was generally very supportive of the performers we booked, even when they weren't, personally, my cup of tea. Not looking for right or wrong answers here, just wondering what other people thought. Thanks....


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Subject: RE: BS: Are audiences more accepting than booker
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 27 Jan 02 - 07:59 PM

some people just wanna be entertained eh...

.-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Are audiences more accepting than booker
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Jan 02 - 08:09 PM

Well, sort of Clinton. Some people just want to ESCAPE kids, husbands, dogs, etc. for one evening. Seriously, though, I have seen that to be true in this small town, Phil.


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Subject: RE: BS: Are audiences more accepting than booker
From: wysiwyg
Date: 27 Jan 02 - 08:15 PM

Phil,

Now ya got me thinkin'.

When I was going to the Barbarossa, the No Exit, and the David Adler Center's events, I went initially because they had booked someone I wanted to see, and then once I was there I liked the place and its standards of performance. I figured if I had liked one performer, I would probably like others they featured, and if it was go-out night, out I went to a spot I liked, to see who might be playing and what they were like. If I liked the music I stayed and paid a second cover for the second set (and often a third). If it was not, I left near the end of the first set and caught someone else somewhere else. But then in Chicago we had a fine appreciation for what is known as "voting with the feet." I always came back... I suppose if they had started hiring all one genre I didn't like, I'd have stopped going there. But I think as business people they would have seen the feet-vote and smartened up.

So I would go where I liked to go, not because I expected them to book all the same sorts of people (think: that would be pretty boring!), but because I figured they had good taste and high standards. So I depended on them to book diverse, interesting, quality performers. If the mix had not been so eclectic-- well shoot! How would I have learned to appreciate everything I love now??? And where would I have been inspired, to sing and play some of it myself????? Heck, there goes a whole ministry down the tubes!

IMO they should be asked to try out good quality folks even if it may not be the genre the regulars seem most used to-- maybe they would not get the first pick on set times and nights, but I'd think they'd want to try them out and see how they went over-- AND I'd want to see if they had a following that started coming to that venue!!

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Are audiences more accepting than booker
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 27 Jan 02 - 08:27 PM

Phil- Having been on both sides of the Performer/Booker business, I can only say that the Booker's job is to fill seats. If a sparse audience enjoys the show, it might get a full house for the next appearance (which will probably be booked by someone else, because the Booker will have gone out of business.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Are audiences more accepting than booker
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Jan 02 - 08:38 PM

Yes, Dick, too true. I have sort of been on both ends. I am an entertainer, and my mom was on the Arts Council in this small town of 5,000 souls (I still think they are counting the dogs......)

Some people would go to ANYthing, others were more choosy. There was a lady on the council at that time that had heard one song by Sweet Honey in the Rock and was determined to book them in this batistion of white conservatives..................I got her some entire albums to listen to and she changed her mind right quick! I and a (very) few others would have paid a lot to see them, but the hall would have been empty.

I am also the Booking Agent for our NotBand, and almost all the people who call know exactly what they are getting, but once in a while I have to explain and occasionally they back out. Had a call once for a wedding reception that wanted "Big Band Dance Music"----that's not us!


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Subject: RE: BS: Are audiences more accepting than booker
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 27 Jan 02 - 10:06 PM

Thanks for the responses. Yes, it's a complicated question. I agree, if I'm performing for an audience, it's my obligation to make sure they have a good time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Are audiences more accepting than booker
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 27 Jan 02 - 10:13 PM

Another voice from both sides of the fence. I ran a folk concert series in Stamford, Conn. for 27 years, along with many years of string band series and summer folk festivals. I've been performing much moe than that. Maybe it was my years of booking performers, but I never tried to pressure someone else to book me. I fugured that they knew their audience better than I did. There were occasions when I though that it was a real mistake to have booked me... especially on split evenings. I also had plenty of God-awful musicians who sent tapes and called who said "I can entertain anyone, just let me in front of the audience!" People who said that were for the most part only entertaining to themselves. Every once in a while, I'd try to stretch the taste of my maudience by booking someone I really liked, and because people came to trust my taste, they usually went over well. In the long run, it's hard work to keep a series going, and that was always my first priority. I had (and still have) some good friends I didn't book, because I thought that they wouldn't go over well. The series finally died because the audience got older and was not comfortable going out at night. No kidding. As far as I'm concerned, when someone said, that I wouldn't really fit their audience, I thanked them. I sure as Hell didn't want to drive 200 miles to get paid $75 to play for a handful of people.
Jerry


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Subject: RE: BS: Are audiences more accepting than booker
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 27 Jan 02 - 11:34 PM

Dear Jerry,

You are absolutely right about not wanting to play for a venue that didn't want you. The few times Margaret and I played for places where the booker had been coerced into having us was a disaster. The enthusiasm of a place to have you can really make a difference in attendance. By the way, Margaret and I really enjoyed doing the double show with you at the Cafe Carpe in Fort Atkinson, Wisconsin years ago. First time I heard "Handfull of Songs" and loved it ever since.

Art sang that song to open a special concert to honor volunteers for the Fox Valley Folklore Society the day after one of out board members had been murdered. There wasn't a dry eye in the house.


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Subject: RE: BS: Are audiences more accepting than booker
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 02:51 AM

Hi, Phil:
Ah yes, the Cafe Carpe! I too have good memories of the night that I split with you and Margaret.... a case of the two halves complimenting each other. I'm glad that you are out there in the Midwest to lend a hand to Art once in awhile. I know how much he appreciates it. My favorite mismatches of musicians are a concert I heard at the Village Gate in the 60's with The Modern Jazz Quartet, Sabicas (a great flamenco guitarist) and Lightning Hopkins.) My only disappointment was that they didn't all come on stage together at the end to do a song together.

Jerry


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Subject: RE: BS: Are audiences more accepting than booker
From: M.Ted
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 11:00 AM

As both a performer and a concert promoter, I would say that the booker generally knows best--

Given that, I must admit that when I wasn't booked, I tended to have a lot of negative feelings about the booker, the booker's taste, and some generally biased thoughts about the aspects of the booker's intimate life, that honestly, I had no real knowledge of--

But as a promoter of mostly folk concerts, I generally did not have a lot margin for error--and even after I managed to fill an theater, it wasn't necessarily a guarantee of success(as mentioned above,audiences can and do walk, and sometimes they don't just walk), so I couldn't take on any one that I wasn't sure about--The up and coming act, eager for bookings, would say,"Just give us a chance!", but as the promoter, you can't afford to take a chance--


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Subject: RE: BS: Are audiences more accepting than booker
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 02:44 PM

Yet another person on both sides of the divide. I' ve been a performer, and I've managed and got bookings for a folk-chorus. This year, my role as a booker is predominating.

My desire with any performer is to get them to a place where they can get the best audience, and presumably also maximize their profits, even if its not sponsored by my own series.

My energies, and the energies of my society's volunteers, allow me to book only a finite number of concerts a year, and I want some diversity among my offerings. I will consider a good performer even in a genre that I'm not personally into, but that falls within the purview of my society (traditional music). I consult with acquaintances who have expertise in that specific genre, and solicit their advice. (It's great having access to a stable of experts.) I like to tell members of my society, "If I haven't booked somebody YOU don't want to hear, then I'm not programming broadly enough."

I generally won't book someone I've never heard, at least via recordings, unless they come with sterling recommendations from someone I trust. But I will gladly book a performer whose talents excite me but who does not yet have a reputation, and enthusiastically promote them to help them develop a name. And one of the peculiarities of my core audience is that I can sometimes book someone whose scholarship or research makes up for a lack of performance savvy, but that luxury is, as I said, an idiosyncrasy of a part of my constituency.

I get a lot more requests from performers than I can book. I'm fortunate to live in a city with many other venues, and I often tell performers that they should contact such-and-such a venue or series, which is more in line with their performance style or income expectations. (Or, not said, a place more conducive to singer-songwriters who don't build on traditional music styles, or a second-line venue commensurate with their lack of mastery of their style, where they can gain experience and learn to be better performers.) And sometimes I just have to say "the dates you proposed are thick with previous commitments; perhaps some other time."

I can try to take my audience in new directions, and tap into an additional audience that suit the performer, but I can only push my core group so far, and I have limited resources to promote outside of my usual group. If my audience chooses not to come, I have an empty hall and either a small take for the performer or a disastrous debit for my series. If appropriate, I can try to present some of these events as house concerts with no guarantees to the performer (and no hall rental costs), which minimizes risks.

And by the by-laws of my society, I'm term-limited. After two years, somebody else gets to impose their judgements and tastes on the Society's booking process.

--Charlie Baum


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Subject: RE: BS: Are audiences more accepting than booker
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 03:16 PM

These are all really wise postings.. For a booker, keeping the series healthy has to be the number one concern. You stretch your audiences tastes as much as you can, without compromising the long-term health of the series.
Jerry


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Subject: RE: BS: Are audiences more accepting than booker
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 03:30 PM

Thanks all for the responses. I had not started the thread with the notion that every venue ought to book me. When we first started playing together Margaret and I figured that to most of the world, this wouldn't be very important (though it was for us), but that the people who like what we do, like it a lot. I agree with Charlie's point that when you book/ head up a concert committee, for an organization that you need to keep the audience in mind. I would often volunteer to do door duties on nights that the style of music was not to my personal liking, so that other volunteers could go in and enjoy the show.

With my performing hat on, I always appreciated bookers who could flat out tell me they couldn't book us for whatever reason. Sometimes we've wound up getting booked after awhile anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: Are audiences more accepting than booker
From: M.Ted
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 05:42 PM

Generally (though not always) the refusals are not personal, so often, if the booker knows what you do, and something does come up, you'll get the first call--


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Mudcat time: 26 August 10:33 PM EDT

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