We had this type of discussion coming up several times in several threads, especially if lyrics for songs were requested that were written recently about events in Northern Ireland. Some thoughts:
I like many of these songs very much and I strongly dislike several of them. Examples for the good ones (very personal opinion): BACK HOME IN DERRY and (I don't find it) Ballad of Michael Gaughan. Examples of the bad ones: SNIPER'S LAMENT and MY LITTLE ARMALITE. I don't see easily why I am so sure in my judgement. Perhaps the one bunch only appeals to the feelings which are shared by a small community (like quite rough football songs) whereas the other bunch appeals to feelings generally shared (or at least understood).
Are the older songs (1916, 1798) better songs? Definitely yes, in my opinion. A NATION ONCE AGAIN or THE FOGGY DEW are great songs in my eyes. My hypothesis is that the rebel songs in the old times have not been better on average than the ones now, but that only the better ones have survived. Or are we just more tolerant now, when the events described are history?
BALLYNEETY'S WALLS describes appreciatively an event in which also women and children have been killed. Why do I think it's a much better song than let's say SNIPER'S LAMENT. The actual event of killing/fighting is not described in any positive way.
I am very sure which Republican song I think is good or not good, but I'm not so sure what it is that makes me so sure. Your comments might help me to clear my own thoughts.

Wolfgang

Written just in 1706, how ironic that the following by Jonathan Swift is so applicable to our times: "We have just enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make us love one another".

kat

Chet W.

How about, "When the wind shakes the corn?"

Another one that I like is "A thousand pikes in the moon" or something like that. I think that even goes back further thatn the 1700's. I think even in the early 1700's the pike was not used as a weapon.

So my question, has there ever been peace in that part of the world. If the two countries were united...today. Now. Would the hate stop? It didn't work in Bosnia.

I do wonder though, how much money does N.I. get from the UK, as opposed to how much the UK spends on N.I. So what would happen to N. I. if all money from the UK stopped. Like if it isn't your country any more, do you have to support it?

I have also heard people complaining that the Queen owns some of the housing, and collects rent. When I asked how much, the reply was that they paid about 1/10 of what the place was worth. I don't know if that is true either.

There is a legend here in the US that the UK offered to give NI back to Ireland. But the Republic of Ireland said no. I don't think there is any truth to that, but that is one of the stories going around.

Would some mudcatter that lives there, put these rumors to rest, one way or the other.

Thanks,

-Fadac

I have had a number of conversations with a many from the south who have expressed a concern that if/when the north and south are one, the brits money will stop filtering south and could make things harder. I do not know how much truth is in that but make of it what you will. But they were sincere.

Ferret.

jon a

It might be good to have a housemother here to put the hook on those who insist on screaming/advocating "FIRE" in our theater---or even those who just insist on farting excessively and lighting 'em like so many Molotov cocktails. Making rules and policing ourselves is, after all, for self-preservation, don't ya know!? There's no need to "kill for peace" here in cyberspace. But a bit of fudging where freedom of speech is concerned might be O.K. if we're to, at least, act civilized; we can't have folks using the bedroom for a toilet & tossing this kind o' s**t on us when we need to get sleep--as I've said before. Here at Mudcat I figure that Max & Barbara & Dick & Joe have the power to "take over" on occasion. At the Folk DJ List and also at the Ballad List, the main honcho (or honcha, as the case may be) can delete obvious spam and other inflamatory rhetoric. Seems to work fair enough--even if it isn't perfect freedom to do everything we care to do (or can conceive of doing) in a completely anarchistic universe. And it might preserve the stated purpose of this site a bit better! I'd be willing to allow all of the previously mentioned folks to delete some of the posts/threads I'm less than proud of---and some that they think just don't fit or are too lewd for younger ears. Here, at Mudcat, it's just a matter of being more civil---exercising self restraint out of respect for each other. In the real world, being less abrasive and more concilliatory might just make for several million less dead people and refugees in the sad hotspots of this world.

A notorious despot is reputed to've said, "A great aspect of our system is that it forces our enemies to adopt our tactics." That's probably apocryphal, but no less a sadly true observation. (I'm not saying who said this since to merely mention the name provokes violent reactions not pertinent to this discussion.)

I do hope that all of us have peace in our time. What great luck to have that be the situation where you might be living right now. But a good percentage of our stars are in our own hands. To mix a metaphor, TAKE THE DOVE OF PEACE, AND RUN WITH IT! Please!

In the above polemic, I have used ***** instead of spelling out the word that's seen by some as bad. I'd appreciate your taking note of (and giving me credit for) the restraint it took for me to do this and to note that it's my real intention to be better in the future (and probably less funny too).

Yep, Mudcat "makes me want to be a better person" (even if it does make me a sourpuss too). Again, the same ol' paradox: There's 2 sides to every coin. Ya go for a nice nature walk in the woods and you trample several thousand ants to death!

Love,

Art Thieme

I think Yeats said it better than I can in the last stanza of Easter 1916

And what if excess of love bewildered them till they died

love? hate? what makes you shoot at other people no good answers, sorry

Cheers!

-Fadac

and will try to follow the way of the three jolly fishermen who should have gone to Amster---Amster----shhh, shhh, shhh.

Art, you are as always a gentleman and, as you are the parent, I will follow your lead.

(My diversionary thread didn't work. Rick, let me know ((privately)) if it lacks social grace ...)

MA

Jon

It would be nice to have the words posted in a thread so the whole village can put things back into order. I have family on both sides and it is heartwrenching. Love and peace

To all others: After a couple of days away I have read this thread and several others. I have been saddened very much by seeing Martin Ryan leave. I have decided not to comment anymore. My personal conclusion and decision for at least a couple of months to come is: strictly music , for that is why I came here and only that is what keeps me here.

Wolfgang

Something good came out of all this. You have made the ignorant of us less ignorant. Thank you.

Love, annap

There is a lot of bias in the press and a bomb going of makes a lot more press than all the hard work being dun for peace. So it's good to her that some good has come out of all this talk. The hardest thing to learn is how much we don't know.

Den

I know how hard it is for all the people of the troubles to talk about it. But I think it is the only way that the rest will begin to under stand so it has less chance of happening elsewhere. (I hope)

The one thing that did show was that very nearly all are in support of the talks

Our love prayer's and hops go to all Ireland.

All the best

Ferret

Annap, there are good links for more info, history, etc. in the Peace in Ireland thread, just in case you haven't seen it yet.

thanks all,

kat