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Geseen/Gesint feeling
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Geseen/Gesint feeling |
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Subject: Geseen/Gesint feeling From: Night Owl Date: 02 Jul 99 - 09:35 PM Looking for help with a translation of this. One of the patients I work with did some writing yesterday...we've been able to decipher everything else except "Geseen feeling" and "Gesint feeling". I tried looking for the foreign phrases thread but can't locate it. I choose not to ASSUME it's just jibberish. Any help???? |
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Subject: RE: Geseen/Gesint feeling From: Joe Offer Date: 02 Jul 99 - 09:47 PM Got more context, Night Owl? Sounds Germanic, maybe Yiddish. The words don't seem to fit together - I'm guessing a connection with sight (sehen) and health (gesund). -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Geseen/Gesint feeling From: Margo Date: 02 Jul 99 - 11:32 PM Context might help...... |
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Subject: RE: Geseen/Gesint feeling From: Night Owl Date: 03 Jul 99 - 12:04 AM Thanks for the interest Joe....the words came in the middle of a sentence about how she hates God for giving her the body and brain she's got...usually she's very spiritual. Just prior to using these words she was writing about the "awful, awful feelings, behaviors" (she has Tourette's Syndrome and was also the victim of severe, repeated trauma). After these words she wrote about "joy feelings". She had just had a violent episode and was mad at herself for not being able to control it. Her writing was helping her "get over it". She will usually ask me for help with spelling but didn't for these words. I cannot ask her directly what she meant. "Gesund" is the word I was trying to think of...does the word have tenses/variations in meaning? I believe she used both words purposefully, but may be wrong...at least warranted asking the question!! |
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Subject: RE: Geseen/Gesint feeling From: Night Owl Date: 03 Jul 99 - 12:05 AM and Margarita...(hi)....missed your post while I was posting!! |
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Subject: RE: Geseen/Gesint feeling From: Joe Offer Date: 03 Jul 99 - 04:25 AM Well, Night Owl, "gesund" in both German and Yiddish is an adjective meaning "healthy." "Sei gesund" in German means "be healthy," is pronounced "sigh ge-ZUNT." In Yiddish, I've heard it sound more like "zigh ge-ZINT." You're familiar with the noun form of the word, "Gesundheit." Can't make much sense out of the other one. -Joe offer- |
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Subject: RE: Geseen/Gesint feeling From: Jeri Date: 03 Jul 99 - 07:54 AM Somebody out there has a website with "Hail Mary" translated into a gazillion languages. From here
In the Lëtzeburgesch (closely related to Dutch) language:
Free dech, Maria, ganz an der Gnod, den Här as mat dir, du bas geseent ënnert de Fraen a geseent as Jesus, d'Kand dat's de dréis. Helleg Maria, Gottesmamm, beit fir äis Sënner, elo an an der Stonn vun eisem Doud. Amen.
The word seems to correspond to "blessed," but I'm not positive. I can't seem to locate my link to on-line dictionaries now, and I must hie off to the free neighborhood breakfast at the end of my street. More later, maybe. |
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Subject: RE: Geseen/Gesint feeling From: murray@mpce.mq.edu.au Date: 03 Jul 99 - 08:17 AM Pronouncing "Gusuent" as "Gesint" is usually Yiddish (Litwak Yiddish, to be more precise). As Joe says it means "health". "Geseen" might be "Gesehen" which means "seen". Yiddish is wrtten with hebrew characters and unfortunately there is no standard transliteration for it. Murray |
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Subject: RE: Geseen/Gesint feeling From: Jeri Date: 03 Jul 99 - 10:38 AM Found this when I looked up "gesint." I don't have a clue what it says. "... sonden. Doer die penitencie die ghi hebt ghedaen Suldy den eewighen loon ontfaen Als ghi hier niet langher en sijt. Sint Ian die heremijt Dies moet God sijn ghebenedijt Ende ghebenedijt moet sijn tkint Daer God sijn stemme doer heeft gesint Ende gebenedijt moet sijn der moeder dracht Die u nie ter werelt bracht. Dat ic den dach doch hebbe gheleeft Dat God mijn sonden vergheven heeft Dies es mijn herte wel te vreden. Die grave Nu en hoordic tot den." When you translate "family" into Dutch, you get the word "gezin." |
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Subject: RE: Geseen/Gesint feeling From: Margo Date: 03 Jul 99 - 05:19 PM Gee, I wonder if your gal has any background that would cause you to think it might be another language. Or perhaps it's a slang word like icky, yucky, or something. An interesting thing about tourette's syndrome and music/creativity: I went to see Dr.Oliver Sacks (the doctor played by Robin Williams in the movie "Awakenings")speak. He told a story about a man with tourettes who had come to him for help. Dr. Sacks gave him a drug that helped him to control his ticks. It worked, but it took the edge off of the creative ability of the fellow, who happened to be a jazz musician. So he compromised: He took the drug 5 days a week so he could perform his job, but on the weekend, he wouldn't take the drug so he could play with the band. The end result was that his family had to put up with having a calm, rational person during the week, and a wild and crazy guy on the weekends. I had the same effect when I was taking anti-depressants. I never wrote music or on my novel while taking the drug. Now that I'm off it, I am doing all kinds of creative things. Interesting. Margarita |
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Subject: RE: Geseen/Gesint feeling From: Night Owl Date: 04 Jul 99 - 01:04 AM You all are great...again!!! Yes, I have reason to believe she knows another language...its a bit too weird for me, but two separate, independent Psychiatrists stated in their reports that she may have a conscious memory of past life experiences. She was too focused on her writing for me to just assume these words were a mistake. I recieved a message today from a friend of a friend etc. who thinks that "Gesint" is Archaic German, past participle, meaning "was". |
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Subject: RE: Geseen/Gesint feeling From: Jeri Date: 04 Jul 99 - 11:07 AM Night Owl, this may be a dumb question, but why can't you ask her directly what she meant? |
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Subject: RE: Geseen/Gesint feeling From: Peter T. Date: 04 Jul 99 - 11:23 AM Night Owl, it could be the Dutch of "gesehn", the past participle of to see ("have seen"). The days that I have seen (ich habe gesehn) in German. Maybe a "seen that" or even a "deja vu" feeling ? yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: Geseen/Gesint feeling From: Peter T. Date: 04 Jul 99 - 11:28 AM Sorry, "gesehen". Always profreed. |
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Subject: RE: Geseen/Gesint feeling From: Jeri Date: 04 Jul 99 - 11:35 AM Or maybe a feeling of having left something in the past and gone on with life, as in letting go? |
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Subject: RE: Geseen/Gesint feeling From: Peter T. Date: 04 Jul 99 - 04:01 PM Night Owl, a Dutch friend of mine confirms that there is a word in Dutch -- "gezind" -- which means "feelings". It is usually used in phrases like "I have (good) bad feelings towards X -- my family, other races, etc. " (bad feelings -- "slecht gezind" -- would be pronounced approximately right -- "z" as hard"s", "d" as a dental "t". Yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: Geseen/Gesint feeling From: Night Owl Date: 05 Jul 99 - 01:14 AM Peter...thanks for the info....I find this a bit "spooky" but at the same time am fascinated with the information. Can you ask your Dutch friend if the word "gezind" is ever used as an adjective and if so, what the spelling would be? Is "gezind" commonly used currently in conversational Dutch?? Also, would he/she be able or willing to translate Jeri's post...(it has the word in it exactly the way H. spelled it in her writing). Jeri...the writing was H.'s way of getting the "bad" behavior behind her and letting it go..moving on. Her "behavior plan" precludes me from referring to it with her again. She also would consider it a violation of the trust we've built between us, because of its connection to the violent behavior. If I understood what the words mean, I may be able to use them in the future,in a positive context, to better understand where she is. Margarita...wondering if you've read about the discovery of "savants" among the inmates of mental institutions. This patient who did the writing is incredibly creative and artistic....spends hours doing amazing drawings...but will not allow us to "show" them, because they're private. Having said all that, I think this should go over to the Music Therapy thread, so that this thread can focus on translating the words. Yes??? |
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Subject: RE: Geseen/Gesint feeling From: Peter T. Date: 05 Jul 99 - 09:19 AM Dear Night Owl, unfortunately my friend has gone off camping for a couple of weeks -- I just caught him going away. But I have a little Dutch myself (I lived there for a short while some years ago), and I think, looking at this, that it must be Flemish, not Dutch, which is slightly different -- In Flemish the "z"s are "s"s. Jeri's piece is, I am fairly sure. My friend used the term, slecht gezind, very colloquially (I have bad feelings towards Germans, was the way he put it, as a lot of Dutch do). I don't know how it would be used as an adjective. I will work through my Dutch grammar book, and get back. Yours, Peter P.S. Concerning artistic savants, did you ever see or read the book, Nadia, about the autistic child artist? Phenomenally beautiful and eerie. There are also those great psychoanalytic pieces by Marion Milner in her"On the Suppressed Madness of Sane Men". I am a Winnicottian by persuasion, so I eat this stuff up. |
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Subject: RE: Geseen/Gesint feeling From: Jeri Date: 05 Jul 99 - 10:13 AM This website has a song with "Gesint" in the title: "The word Klezmer has today become synonymous with the whole genre of East European Jewish music. This also includes pieces written in USA, Paris, Israel and elsewhere. (When Troyke performed in New York, it was said that he was bringing the Yiddish songs back there.) The contrabass solo in Abi Gesint is certainly no longer a Klezmer tune, also because the song is sung with German lyrics. It says: One doesn't need much money, because when the sun shines and one is healthy, that is happiness." I also foud something here that says: "Een Placebo ben ick ende alsoo gesint / Dat ick de huijck alom hanck nae den wint. (Ich bin ein Wie´sbeliebt und so gesinnt, Daß ich den Mantel immer hänge nach dem Wind.)" and translates as: "Een placebo ben ick end alsoo gesint / Dat ick de huijck alom hanck nae wint. (I am in such a way gesinnt a Wie'sbeliebt and that I always hang the coat after the wind.)" I don't quite understand it, but the word is used as an adjective. If you go to , you can translate the word "extinguish" into the Sudovian ("Indo-European linguistic family. It is a branch of the Baltic group of languages. Of this group, the Lithuanian and Latvian languages are more well known.") word "gesint." It's also the name of an Italian software company. I think I've caused enough confusion and it's time to stop my stream-of-conciousness web surfing. (My excuses for obsessing on this are I've always found words fascinating and it's a miserably hot and humid day already. I don't want to move.) |
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Subject: RE: Geseen/Gesint feeling From: Jeri Date: 05 Jul 99 - 10:21 AM err...Joe - there's a little old < that should be a >, and I haven't figured out how to hack Mudcat yet. (The link works - it's just a little bigger than I expected.) |
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Subject: RE: Geseen/Gesint feeling From: Margo Date: 05 Jul 99 - 11:31 AM From Jeri's post above, it sounds like gesint is being used as an adjective, such as a "healthy feeling". I wonder how that would fit in in context. |
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Subject: RE: Geseen/Gesint feeling From: Night Owl Date: 06 Jul 99 - 01:54 AM Margarita....yes, it does look like its being used as an adjective and could be that she was saying "healthy feelings" - as she was trying to transition to a better place. Jeri....I sure hope you don't feel that you've confused anything...I find the results of your efforts to be invaluable in figuring this out. Your quote.."One doesn't need much money, because when the sun shines and one is healthy, that is happiness." makes a lot of sense in context....as does "deja vu feelings" (she sometimes verbally refers to "regular feelings" I think meaning deja vu). I will figure out a positive way to repeat the phrase to her and see if I get any reaction. I'm also hoping Peter T. will be able to shed some light on the previous paragraphs you posted. If all else fails, I'll just assume she meant an "Italian Software Company" and leave it at that!!! ;o) Peter T. What is a "Winnicottian" ? |
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Subject: RE: Geseen/Gesint feeling From: Peter T. Date: 06 Jul 99 - 09:17 AM Sorry, Night Owl, I will take a look at the piece when I have a few free moments. Winnicott (D.W.) is a hero of mine -- he was the most famous child psychoanalyst in the British "object relations" school. His book, Playing and Reality, is about the creation of "transitional objects" like teddy bears or blankets that children use to begin to negotiate the world -- these objects are both subjective and objective and are used as surrogates for mothers. They can be creatively created and destroyed without disappearing forever: you can hide them in play, tear their legs off and put them back on, etc. Winnicott expanded this to suggest that the whole realm of the arts -- like your patients with their autoharps -- takes place in this play space, and that many of the troubles people have trying to be creative is that they never handled the "playing around" phase of their lives well, so have difficulty handling the relationship between creativity and rules. It is like a child not being able to be alone, because its mother has left the room, or when its natural desire to kill its mother (this is during the infant's pure selfish phase) isn't handled properly, so when the child (or adult) tries to be creative it freezes, because he or she may be punished or cause damage or its mother may disappear forever, etc. Play happens in that dangerous realm, and some people are crippled because they never made the transition properly (e.g. they were abandoned when very young). Marion Milner was a student of his, and wrote extensively about psychotic patients and the arts, and her own difficulties as a painter. Winnicott is, I think, now widely regarded as the most innovative thinker in the post-Freud, post-Jung era. Melanie Klein and Jown Bowlby would be in the same category, roughly. yours, Peter T. |
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