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The Irish Emigrant / Grammar

Related threads:
Lyr Req: Irish Emigrant's Lament ('While I live... (11)
(origins) Discussion: Lament of the Irish Emigrant (34)
Tune Req: Lament of an Irish Immigrant (14)
(origins) Lyr Req: 'I'm sitting on the stile Mary, where...' (9)
Lyr Req: Irish Settler's Lament (7)
Lyr Req: Lament of the Irish Emigrant / Immigrant (7) (closed)


Teru 22 Jul 97 - 07:42 PM
Alice 22 Jul 97 - 10:59 PM
Teru 23 Jul 97 - 07:36 PM
Alice 23 Jul 97 - 09:04 PM
Valerie 26 Jul 97 - 03:40 PM
Alice 26 Jul 97 - 07:51 PM
Teru 26 Jul 97 - 09:49 PM
Bill 28 Jul 97 - 01:17 AM
Joe Offer 28 Jul 97 - 03:02 AM
Alison 28 Jul 97 - 07:30 AM
Bill in Alabama 28 Jul 97 - 08:15 AM
Alan of Australia 28 Jul 97 - 08:51 AM
Alan of Oz 28 Jul 97 - 09:03 AM
Bill in Alabama [Bill Foster] 28 Jul 97 - 11:49 AM
Alan of Oz 29 Jul 97 - 05:06 AM
Martin Ryan 29 Jul 97 - 05:48 AM
Alan 29 Jul 97 - 08:04 AM
Bill Foster 29 Jul 97 - 11:12 AM
j0_77 16 Aug 99 - 01:53 AM
bseed(charleskratz) 16 Aug 99 - 02:16 AM
Brakn 16 Aug 99 - 08:07 AM
GUEST,cabrina.Ireland 20 Jun 03 - 11:54 PM
George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca 21 Jun 03 - 02:41 AM
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Subject: The Irish Emigrant / Grammar
From: Teru
Date: 22 Jul 97 - 07:42 PM

Some of you know this song beginnig with "I'm sitting on the stile, Mary, where we sat side by side,". There is a following sentence in the ending of the second verse of this song.

"But I'll ne'er forget old Ireland,were it fifty times as fair."

According to the grammar I learnt, the meaning of this sentence is "I'll never forget old Ireland, if it were fifty times as fair. However, I will forget it, because it is not fifty times as fair." Am I right?

Or does it mean "I will remember old Ireland that was fifty times as fair."?

Thanks


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Subject: RE: The Irish Emigrant / Grammar
From: Alice
Date: 22 Jul 97 - 10:59 PM

Teru, I believe it refers to the comparison of Ireland to the "land I'm goin' to". In other words, if the land he is goin' to is fifty times as fair as Ireland, he would still never forget Ireland. My copy of this is actually eight verses of a poem titled "Lament of the Irish Emigrant" by Lady Dufferin, in The Library of World Poetry, edited by William Cullen Bryant. I have a 1995 edition, and it is on page 203.

The seventh verse is: I'm biddin you a long farewell, My Mary - kind and true! But I'll not forget you darlin' In the land I'm goin' to. They say there's bread and work for all, And the sun shines always there - But I'll not forget old Ireland, Were it fifty times as fair!

Alice


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Subject: RE: The Irish Emigrant / Grammar
From: Teru
Date: 23 Jul 97 - 07:36 PM

Alice:

Thank you very much for your explanation. I have an LP "The Voice of Erin" (Philips, London, late 1970's), in which Frank Patterson sings several Irish songs such as Slievenamon, Roísín Dubh and Kevin Barry, but he sings only two verses of The Irish Emigrant, and I had never known that there are 8 verses. Could you write all the lyrics in this thread, if possible?

With kindest regards

Teru


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Subject: RE: The Irish Emigrant / Grammar
From: Alice
Date: 23 Jul 97 - 09:04 PM

I keep getting cut off before I have time to answer your question. Max, what is happening? Alice


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Subject: RE: The Irish Emigrant / Grammar
From: Valerie
Date: 26 Jul 97 - 03:40 PM

Alice,

I, too, would love to have the verses to The Lament of the Irish Emigrant. I've never been to this board before and hope I can find my way back. Thanks!


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Subject: Lyr Add: LAMENT OF THE IRISH EMIGRANT ^^
From: Alice
Date: 26 Jul 97 - 07:51 PM

My source for this poem is in the July 22 post above. The copyright of the book is 1970 by J.B. Ford and company. I am copying this for your educational non-profit purposes!!

LAMENT OF THE IRISH EMIGRANT
Lady Dufferin

I'm sittin' on the stile, Mary,
Where we sat side by side
On a bright May mornin' long ago,
When first you were my bride;
The corn was springin' fresh and green,
And the lark sang loud and high;
And the red was on your lip, Mary,
And the love-light in your eye.

The place is little changed, Mary;
The day is bright as then;
The lark's loud song is in my ear,
And the corn is green again;
But I miss the soft clasp of your hand,
And your breath warm on my cheek;
And I still keep list'nin' for the words
You nevermore will speak.

'T is but a step down yonder lane,
And the little church stands near,
The church where we were wed, Mary;
I see the spire from here.
But the graveyard lies between, Mary,
And my step might break your rest, -
For I've laid you, darling, down to sleep,
With your baby on your breast.

I'm very lonely now, Mary,
For the poor make no new friends;
But, O, they love the better still
The few our Father sends!
And you were all I had, Mary,-
My blessin' and my pride;
There's nothing left to care for now,
Since my poor Mary died.

Yours was the good, brave heart, Mary,
That still kept hoping on,
When the trust in God had left my soul,
And my arm's young strength was gone.
There was comfort ever on your lip,
And the kind look on your brow, -
I bless you, Mary, for that same,
Though you cannot hear me now.

I thank you for the patient smile
When your heart was fit to break, -
When the hunger pain was gnawin' there,
And you hid it for my sake;
I bless you for the pleasant word,
When your heart was sad and sore, -
O, I'm thankful that you're gone, Mary,
Where grief can't reach you more!

I'm biddin' you a long farewell,
My Mary - kind and true!
But I'll not forget you, darling,
In the land I'm goin' to;
They say there's bread and work for all,
And the sun shines always there, -
But I'll not forget old Ireland,
Were it fifty times as fair!

And often in those grand old woods
I'll sit and shut my eyes,
And my heart will travel back again,
To the place where Mary lies.
And I'll think I see the little stile
Where we sat side by side,
And the springin' corn, and the bright May morn,
When first you were my bride.

This sad story reminds me of the memoirs of my family who left Leitrim and came to the US. To quote my great-aunt Alice, in part, "...His grandfather, Peter Flynn, was the last of his family able to maintain himself during the chronic impoverishment of unhappy Ireland. In the case of his father, Lawrence Flynn, and that of my father, this impoverishment was increased by the extravagance of the landlord and his big family....Peter Flynn loved Ireland with all the passion of a patriot, but he saw the futility of revolt and found support in the warnings of their parish priest, 'Ireland has never gained anything through the shedding of blood.' -- words still only too true. Father went to Minnesota in 1880, crossing the Atlantic on the 'City of Limerick'. Mother said that he bid goodbye the night before and that he stole away before daybreak the next morning with many tears because he realized that he probably would never return to Ireland... We left Ireland two years later...Father asked mother to bring a blackthorn stick, but the one she selected was entirely too dainty for his taste..."
This has been a long message, hope I haven't "hogged" this space!!! Alice ^^


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Subject: RE: The Irish Emigrant / Grammar
From: Teru
Date: 26 Jul 97 - 09:49 PM

Thank you, Alice. Although I have some Irish songbooks, I had never come across these long lyrics to this song. Irish songs are familiar to Japanese people, and some Japanese even think of a few songs like Last Rose of Summer as Japanese songs! However, when I listened to Come Back to Erin, Kathleen Mavourneen and "rebel" songs such as Kevin Barry and James Connolly, I couldn't help learning Irish history. (I used to be bad at history---both World and Japanese---, when I was a schoolboy.) So, I read your message with great interest. It's nice not only to look for lyrics, but to "study" the background of the songs in this forum.

Thanks again

Regards-Teru


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Subject: RE: The Irish Emigrant / Grammar
From: Bill
Date: 28 Jul 97 - 01:17 AM

Howdy Alice,

From the little bit of the story that you gave, it sounds to me like there must be a great song titled "The Blackthorn Stick" somewhere in you. I'd love to hear it sometime if it really does exist.

Allinkausay,
Bill


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Subject: RE: The Irish Emigrant / Grammar
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Jul 97 - 03:02 AM

That was wonderful, Alice! Do you have any idea when "The Irish Emigrant" was written, and do you know anything about Lady Dufferin?
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: The Irish Emigrant / Grammar
From: Alison
Date: 28 Jul 97 - 07:30 AM

Hi

I don't remember much about Lady Dufferin except she lived on an estate outside Belfast (the name escapes me at the moment, Laoise if you're reading this it's on the corner of where the back road over the Craigantlet hills meets the Bangor dual carriageway opposite Dixon's garden centre, maybe you can help jog my memory.)

Anyway, she must have done something noteworthy, because there was a ward named after her in the old Belfast City Hospital.

Sorry it's all I can remember.

Slainte

alison


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Subject: RE: The Irish Emigrant / Grammar
From: Bill in Alabama
Date: 28 Jul 97 - 08:15 AM

Great song! Reminds me a bit of "When you and I were young, Maggie."


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Subject: RE: The Irish Emigrant / Grammar
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 28 Jul 97 - 08:51 AM

Please! can anyone post the tune. In any format & we'll work it out.

Best of all if you can do MIDI email the file as an attachment as Dick described here and tell us via this thread that you've done so.

Snail mail could work; email me at alan.foster@tpgi.com.au and I'll let you know my address.

Thanks,
Alan


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Subject: RE: The Irish Emigrant / Grammar
From: Alan of Oz
Date: 28 Jul 97 - 09:03 AM

Sorry!
That should have been
here.
It's late evening here & I'm bushed, or is that skundered?

cheers,
Alan


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Subject: RE: The Irish Emigrant / Grammar
From: Bill in Alabama [Bill Foster]
Date: 28 Jul 97 - 11:49 AM

I would like to have the tune also. I don't do much Irish music other than that which came to indirectly through the Appalachian tradition, but I like this song enough to make an exception. And after all, according to family oral history, the ancestor whose surname I bear emigrated from Ireland in 1769.


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Subject: RE: The Irish Emigrant / Grammar
From: Alan of Oz
Date: 29 Jul 97 - 05:06 AM

That's very interesting Bill, it never occurred to me that there would be some Irish Fosters, it's a very Anglo Saxon name. My ancestors came from Kent.

Wes hael,
Alan


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Subject: RE: The Irish Emigrant / Grammar
From: Martin Ryan
Date: 29 Jul 97 - 05:48 AM

Emigrant’s Farewell

Sparling’s "Irish Minstrelsy", published about 1888, gives "The Lament of the Irish Emigrant" in eight verses and the following biographical details of the author:

"Dufferin, Helena Selina Blackwood, Lady. Poetess Born 1807; died June 13, 1867. Granddaughters of R.B. Sheridan, she and her sisters, the Honourable Mrs. Norton and the Duchess of Somerset, worthily sustained the reputation of the family. Her ballads and poems were the genuine outcome of a deep and understanding love of the people, and secured for her their affection and esteem."

R.B. Sheridan would be Richard Brisnley Sheridan, the 18th century playwright.

Regards.


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Subject: RE: The Irish Emigrant / Grammar
From: Alan
Date: 29 Jul 97 - 08:04 AM

More family history (very briefly). I was told that our family was among the Northern English/Southern Scottish protestants moved by the crown to Ireland in the 17th century on 99-year leases. When the leases expired they had problems with the government over renewal. They felt that they were being robbed, and they decided to move to the colonies. I know that oral history is very unreliable six generations of oral history can be, and I hope to have the time to verify it when I retire.


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Subject: RE: The Irish Emigrant / Grammar
From: Bill Foster
Date: 29 Jul 97 - 11:12 AM

Alan: I entered the response about family history to answer your thread, and it came out under your name on the thread! I apologize, although I don't know how that happened.


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Subject: RE: The Irish Emigrant / Grammar
From: j0_77
Date: 16 Aug 99 - 01:53 AM

There is a bunch of recordings back in the '70s by 'Foster and Allen' an Irish Folk Band. I think they woould be a little worried that anyone would think them not Irish since they both were born there. BTW the recordings are of songs just like the above.

yellowpinkapotamus yachidagh boyo


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Subject: RE: The Irish Emigrant / Grammar
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 16 Aug 99 - 02:16 AM

Wasn't there talk last year about Mudcat adding the facility to post tunes in standard musical notation? Or maybe one of our wizards can clue us in on how it can be done via HTML (if we can have possums with blinking eyes, we can certainly have musical notation--as a graphic file, if no other way). I, too, would love to have that tune, but I'm having difficulty getting my music program to open midi files. --seed


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Subject: RE: The Irish Emigrant / Grammar
From: Brakn
Date: 16 Aug 99 - 08:07 AM

Just a bit more info.

The words of this song were put to music by G.A.Barker.

Lady Dufferin was the grand-daughter of of the wit and dramatist, Richard Brinsley Sheridan. She was born in England and married the Fourth Marquis of Dufferin and Ava, whose lands near Newtoards in County Down, Ireland still have a tower to her memory. Usually she wrote under the nom de plume of Helen Salina. The only other poem of hers that I know of is "O Bay of Dublin". She died in 1867.

The words of this song were put to music by G.A.Barker.

Mick Bracken


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Subject: RE: The Irish Emigrant / Grammar
From: GUEST,cabrina.Ireland
Date: 20 Jun 03 - 11:54 PM

I used to care for an elderly lady who suffered from, Alzheimers disease and this was here favourite song, (although she could never quite remember all of it) it always intrigued me, and i always wanted to learn all of the words but nobody ever seemed to know of it. So you can imagine how happy i was to be told about this website. Thankyou for ending Five years of Curiosity.


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Subject: RE: The Irish Emigrant / Grammar
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca
Date: 21 Jun 03 - 02:41 AM

You're very welcome, Cabrina!


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