IN HIS OWN WORDS :

B.R. : Tom, you must have made hundreds of records. Can you tell us some- thing about them - how you made them, when, where, and who was with you in the various bands ?

T.B. : Well, I'm not too proud of quite a lot of them, because they were made too fast, overnight without consideration, and shoved into the wax by the old horn method which didn't do them any good to start with. They were not made with my orchestra either; I think that would have made a good showing. I made these wax cuttings to make money fast, because my orchestra did not record. I was getting $50 a side for each record I cut, under contract to each leader, and guaranteed four double sides a week. I would be called by telegram to be at the recording office at 9 A.M. the next day, not knowing what we had to record, and we would put what the Company wanted right then on the record.

B. R. Who were these leaders you mentioned ?

T. B. Oh, I worked with all the Yerkes Orchestras, such as the Happy Six and Harry A. Yerkes' Dance Orchestra - and Yerkes' Novelty Five, Yerkes' Jazarimba Orchestra; that is all I can remember of the Yerkes bands. I think he may have had a Marimba Band with the Green Brothers - you know Joe and George Green ? - however, they are on a lot of the records we made. You can hear them.

B. R. Did you record with the All Star Trio, then ?

T. B. You mean the Wheeler Wadsworth Trio ? I played with him when he used more than three men, sure. I made all the records with Ray Miller's Black and White Melody Boys, too. In this group there was Earl Oliver, cornet - he was white, you understand ? - Billy Fazioli, piano; Jim Welton, sax.; Gus Lazaro, banjo; Ray Miller, drums; Tom Brown, trombone. I left Miller in July, 1923. With this band we joined the Edwin Production show and,travelled over the whole route; coming into New York we would cut some more records with Ray Miller, Yerkes and the Kentucky Serenaders.

B. R. Was that another of Yerkes' bands ?

T. B. Yes, you may be right; all I know is Bill Pike hired me, and it he that I got my cheque from, and I received one each week from Yerkes also.

B. R. It's a pity the Kentucky Serenaders records are not better; they are a bit fuzzy, don't you think ?

T. B. You're right - the recording was a fuzzy one at that, but I worked with them at the Cafe de Paris and Rector's in New York, and they seemed to sound O.K. on the job.

B. R. That wasn't Alcide Nunez on clarinet, was it ?

T. B. No, Nunez was not the clarinet, it was Fatty Moran, but he played sax most of the time. The trumpeter or cornet was from Hungary, and had a name like ... can't pronounce his name.

B. R. I think I can hear Nunez on some of the Happy Sixes - am I right ?

T. B. Yes - he was with us on the Novelty Five record we did for Vocalion - RAILROAD BLUES and LEFT ALL ALONE BLUES. We had Ross Gorman, sax.; Ted Fiorito, piano; and the drummer I think was one of the Green brothers. I'm not sure, but they played on most of our recordings, as I just told you. Yerkes held the baton, I played trombone. I can't remember the cornet player's name, but he was from the Metropolitan Opera House Orchestra. Both of these are good recordings.

B. R. So Yerkes raided the Metropolitan Opera House Orchestra, did he ?

T. B. Yeah - there was another Vocalion we did about then - I have a copy someplace ..... it's LA VEEDA and THE CROCODILE. We had Harry Akst on piano and about twenty-six men from the Metropolitan Opera House Orchestra ! We had a tympanist, oboe and other instruments, myself on trombone. Sorry I can't give you more, facts on this one.

B. R. O.K., you're doing fine ! Who else can you recall making records with you ?

T. B. Oh, I also made some cuts with the Benson Orchestra, the Harvey Orchestra, and the Wagner Orchestra. I can't recall the titles, but they were out .....

T. R. You mean they were put on sale ? T. B. Oh yes....

B. R. You composed some numbers too, didn't you ?

T. B. Oh yes .... ROSE OF SPAIN that we did with Ray Miller on the OKeh and Vocalion records, and EASY RIDER and THE WAFFLE MAN'S CALL we did with Johnny Bayersdorffer , here in New Orleans with the old horn effect, and made with a motor running in the building. It was made at the old Heart Building, not a good place for recording. I composed both those, but gave the other men a break with their names on them.

B. R. Your band played in Chicago in 1915, that's right, isn't it, Tom - even before the Original Dixieland Band ?

T. B. Yes - our band was the one that lit the fuse for jazz all over the world, and was brought about by the idea of Lipschultz, the leader of the union orchestra at Lamb's Cafe there - owing to union rules they couldn't work in the same place with us, because we were not union members at that time. We were booked as an act and they nicknamed our orchestra "jazz" as we made a hit and caused them to lose their jobs. This was the start of jazz, but not what it is today. I think they did too much to jazz in that it is distorted; the cornet or trumpet player tries to pack too many notes into one horn, the clarinet player sounds like a peanut roasting machine, the trombone has a tone like a foghorn, the piano player has no respect for the ivories or the score, and the drummers all try to be Gene Krupa. We haven't got any more jazz, though they call it that. It has turned into Be-Bop or something. Nick never played in any other than his own band

B. R. You mean once he and the Original Dixieland Jazz Band had reached Chicago ?

T. B. Yeah ...... it took Nick two weeks to get a number down, but when he did, he played it well.

B. R. Would you have any memories of other recordings with Yerkes bands in the early days ?

T. B. Oh yes - I toured Canada with shows and recorded there with the Blue Bird Orchestra - that was a Yerkes bunch - and Martucci's Orchestra.

B. R. More recently you made an LP with Papa Laine's Children, with Johnny Wiggs, Ray Bauduc and Dr. Edmond Souchon, of course.....

T. B. Oh, they're not so good, as they were taken while we were just rehearsing and caught us off guard and were sold and put out. The Papa Laine stunt was only done as a sales point as Jack Laine never went any further than Biloxi, Mississippi; they used his name to sell the record. He is a very old man - I think he is 86 years old. When we make some more, I will be supervising them, and I won't let anything go unless it's real good. (Alas, Tom Brown died about a year after this interview, apparently without making the records he referred to here). I'm sorry I can't tell you more about those early ones, but you must remember that on these recording dates we hardly knew one another; it was like playing with a new band each time.

B. R. Can you tell me one thing, Tom - you are on the Gorman Novelty Five record on Vocalion of LAUGHING HYENA/BARKING DOG. I can hear you exchanging laughing effects with another trombonist. Have you any idea who he was ?

T. B. No, he was a Ross Gorman studio man. He was a small red-headed man like myself, but for the life of me I can't recall his name. See, we only had dealings with these men on recording dates, as I told you. We would call one another by Bill, Frank or whatever, and we hardly ever knew their last names.

B. R. Did you ever come across a bandleader named Joe Samuels ?

T. B. Yes .... but I remember he passed away in 1955, I saw in the union book.

B. R. And Al Siegel ?

T. B. No, I never knew him, as he came along about nine years after we got started in Chicago, and he was only a young boy then, in 1924. Held be about 53 now (1957 - B.R.) and I heard he had died. Anything can happen.

B. R. I see you composed several numbers, and you just told me you wrote both the Bayersdorffer tunes; did you write any others ?

T. B. Yes, did you know I am the writer of LIVERY STABLE BLUES ? This number went to court, and the judge wanted to hand the claim of this number to me, but I was afraid that the Victor Company and the publishers would then fight me, and if I lost, I would have all the court costs to pay, so I refused the claim, and told Judge Carpenter I didn't want to claim, even though the tune belonged to me. He then told the Victor people and the publisher to sell what they had printed and not print any more, so I lost a big hit.

B. R. Tom Brown - thank you very much. (Tom Brown died nine months later).