Many years ago, in another life, I knew a guy who was fond of saying that 
the three most over-rated things in the world were home cooking, home 
f***ing and the Central Intelligence Agency...
YMMV
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lisa - S. H." <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: BALLAD-L Digest - 27 Apr 2005 to 28 Apr 2005 (#2005-175)> At 08:46 AM 4/29/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>||:  Eating beef is the second most overrated pleasure in  :||
>>||:  America.                                              :||
>
> Ooh, ooh, I know the first.....watching tv?  ;)
> Lisa 

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

I've forgotten already the name for the single stringed instrument we had 
been discussing, the one with the wire strung between two nails, etc.
Lisa 

Balladeers --It's been a *long* eleven months, but we have quite a Ballad Index
for you. Eleven new books, 800 new songs, 2000 new book citations,
400 new recording citations."But wait, there's more."We decided to do something special for Version 2.0, so there are two
major new features in the Index. The first (thanks mostly to Ben
Schwartz) is that we are now doing broadsides.There is, of course, nothing new about indexing broadsides; it will be
years, e.g. before we catch up with Bruce Olson -- but we're stressing
online broadsides: Those in the Library of Congress, Murray, National
Library of Scotland, and Bodleian collections. We've added about 1200
references to those catalogs.And, finally, we've added what we call "The Supplemental Tradition."
This is a collection of song texts and sample stanzas. I must admit
that it has a complicated history: It started out as a database I
was making to compare song texts. So there are some oddities in there,
such as the critically reconstructed text of "Boney on the Isle of
Saint Helena." The proportion of those is likely to decrease over
time; at this point, I'm adding mostly sample stanzas rather than
full texts. But there are over 600 sample texts in there; between
that and the Digital Tradition and the broadside libraries, there
is now an online sample for nearly a third of the songs in the
Index.(If someone wants to take those SuppTrad songs and put them in
the Digital Tradition, that's fine; I just don't have time. And,
of course, there are no tunes.)I regret to report that the search engine at CSU Fresno is a few
days behind (it always is); right now, you can't find any of
the new songs, though the new references can be found for the
old songs. That should cure itself over the next few days, and
you can always download the text version of the Index if you're
so inclined.I hope people will find it helpful.-- 
Robert B. Waltz  - - - - - - - - Ballad Index Editor
1078 Colne Street
Saint Paul, MN 55103-1348
651-489-1930 - - - - - - - - - - e-mail: [unmask]The Ballad Index Web Site: 
http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/BalladIndexTOC.html

Hi!	NO - This is not an April Fool's joke. :-)	The songsters & books will be posted on Sunday. 	JOURNALS	6521804920 - Hoosier Folklore, 2 issues, 1949 & 1950, $3 (ends 
Apr-03-05 12:08:15 PDT)
		
	6953697692 - New York Folklore Quarterly, Aug. 1946, $2.50 (ends
Apr-03-05 13:57:30 PDT)	6953714870 - Journal of American Folklore, 5 issues, 1994-97, 
$4.99 (ends Apr-03-05 16:38:25 PDT)	6954289291 - North Carolina Folklore Journal, spring-summer 1981, 
$8 (ends Apr-10-05 19:11:23 PDT)	6954289625 - North Carolina Folklore Journal, summer-fall 1992, 
$8 (ends Apr-10-05 19:13:56 PDT)	6954289956 - North Carolina Folklore Journal, winter-spring 1993, 
$8 (ends Apr-10-05 19:17:01 PDT)	6954290402 - North Carolina Folklore Journal, summer-fall 1994, 
$8 (ends Apr-10-05 19:21:08 PDT)	6954290735 - North Carolina Folklore Journal, winter-spring 1990, 
$8 (ends Apr-10-05 19:24:29 PDT)	6954372501 - Keystone Folklore Quarterly, fall 1966, $3 (ends 
Apr-11-05 12:47:42 PDT)	BOOKS	4538985429 - The Folklore of World Holidays by Griffin & Shurgin, 
1999, $24.99 (ends Apr-02-05 18:53:54 PST0	4539000810 - Folklore of the Scottish Highlands by Ross, 1993, 
$11.01 (ends Apr-02-05 20:01:48 PST)	4534602549 - The State of Jefferson and Other Yarns by Worcester,
1982, $3.50 (ends Apr-03-05 16:15:00 PDT)	6166639320 - FOLKLORE OF THE AUSTRALIAN PUB by Wannan, 1975, 
$9.95 AU (ends Apr-04-05 01:46:15 PDT) also 4539425697 - 1.99 GBP (ends
Apr-04-05 13:05:58 PDT)	5179634772 - The Wearing of the Green by Wannan, 1968, 0.99 GBP 
(ends Apr-05-05 09:31:40 PDT)	4715018611 - J. GOLDEN KIMBALL STORIES, LP, 1964, $4 (ends 
Apr-05-05 14:18:01 PDT)	4538941157 - Oral Folk-Tales of Wessex by Palmer, 1973, 6 GBP (ends
Apr-05-05 15:22:53 PDT)	4539801101 - 3 books of folk tales from Louisiana, $9.99 (ends 
Apr-05-05 20:49:14 PDT)	5180929501 - A GUIDE TO AUSTRALIAN FOLKLORE by Davey & Seal, 2003,
$9.95 AU (ends Apr-06-05 02:10:48 PDT)	4539144151 - The Folklore of Warwickshire by Palmer, 1976, 6.25 
GBP (ends Apr-06-05 12:36:47 PDT)	4539987753 - Urban Legends by Roeper, 1999, $3 (ends Apr-06-05 
14:34:58 PDT)	6954133632 - Folklore of Springfield, Vermont by Baker, 1922, CD, 
$9.99 (ends Apr-06-05 17:52:31 PDT)	4540091412 - ey up mi duck. part 3 by Scollins & Titford, 1977, 
2.99 GBP (ends Apr-07-05 05:10:29 PDT)	5181316946 - FOLKLORE OF GUERNSEY by de Garis, 1986, 1.99 GBP 
(ends Apr-07-05 08:33:47 PDT)	6954277197 - Body Boots and Britches by Thompson, 1940, $9.50 
(ends Apr-07-05 16:55:07 PDT)	8300090545 - The Witchcraft and Folklore of Dartmoor by 
St Leger-Gordon, 1965, 4.99 GBP (ends Apr-08-05 10:38:50 PDT)	5181744495 - Mysterious Dorset by Legg, 1998, 3.50 GBP (ends 
Apr-08-05 12:52:16 PDT)	4539849829 - FOLK LORE OF THE LAKE COUNTIES by Findlay, 1968, 
0.95 GBP (ends Apr-09-05 02:45:18 PDT)				Happy Bidding!
				Dolores-- 
Dolores Nichols 		| 
D&D Data			| Voice :	(703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None	| Email:     <[unmask]>
	--- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

Hi!	After surviving April Fool's Day followed by Don's birthday,
here is part 1 of the ballads Ebay List. Part 2 will be posted later
today. 	SONGSTERS & BROADSIDES	6953448661 - Rough and Ready Songster, 1848, 250 GBP (Ends 
Apr-04-05 16:30:00 PDT)	6522519629 - Broadside (We Are For The Union), 1860?, $9.99 (ends 
Apr-04-05 19:07:39 PDT)	3968045866 - Broadside (ANCIENT RAMS No. 2 OF SOUTHWARK), 18??, 
$9.99 (ends Apr-04-05 19:15:38 PDT)	3967673984 - World's Peace Jubilee songster, 1872, $9.99 (ends 
Apr-04-05 20:06:58 PDT)	6522531152 - 5 broadsides, 1850?, $14.99 (ends Apr-04-05 20:07:32 
PDT)	695401119 - 2 books (Songs of the Fireside, 1852 & Wescott's Select 
progressive Hymns and Song, 1874) $9.99 (ends Apr-05-05 19:13:23 PDT)	6523134476 - Gospel and Temperance Songster, 188?, $9.99 (ends 
Apr-09-05 19:32:42 PDT)				Happy Bidding!
				Dolores-- 
Dolores Nichols 		| 
D&D Data			| Voice :	(703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None	| Email:     <[unmask]>
	--- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

Hi!	As promised earlier, here is part 2. See you next week. :-)	MISCELLANEOUS	4714805322 - So Early in the Morning, LP, $6.99 (ends Apr-05-05 
21:00:00 PDT)	6953623741 - 16 issues of the JOURNAL OF THE FOLK SONG SOCIETY
1902-32 plus 2 books (The Penguin Book of English Folk Songs 1959 & The 
Country Dance Book,Part II 1927), 17.50 GBP (ends Apr-06-05 05:23:26 PDT)	4715981143 - The Stewarts of Blair, LP, 1965, 4.99 GBP (ends 
Apr-11-05 23:48:04 PDT)	SONGBOOKS, ETC.	4539502812 - Haulin' Rope & Gaff by Ryan & Small, 1978, $9.95 
(ends Apr-04-05 19:26:21 PDT)	6953881098 - The Legendary Ballads of England and Scotland by 
Roberts, 188?, $14.99 (ends Apr-04-05 20:03:56 PDT)	6953924226 - Border Ballads, 1895, 32.50 GBP (ends Apr-05-05 
07:14:31 PDT)	4539737323 - The Bonnie Bunch of Roses by Milner, 1984, $11.50 
(ends Apr-05-05 16:39:37 PDT)	4539918236 - Texas Folk Songs by Owens, 1976, $14.95 (ends 
Apr-06-05 09:41:43 PDT)	7312052006 - Folk Songs of the British Isles by Gant, 0.99 GBP 
(ends Apr-06-05 11:43:30 PDT)	4539982145 - Tales and Songs of Southern Illinois by Neely, 1998 
edition, $12.50 (ends Apr-06-05 14:10:34 PDT)	6953936660 - A GARLAND OF GREEN MOUNTAIN SONG by Flanders, 1934, 
$3 (ends Apr-07-05 21:15:00 PDT)	7312525238 - EUREKA - THE SONGS THAT MADE AUSTRALIA by Fahey, 
1984, 3.99 GBP (ends Apr-08-05 12:32:41 PDT)	7311887968 - AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL SKETCH OF THE LIFE OF PETER BUCHAN, 
1839, $4.20 (ends Apr-08-05 16:34:51 PDT)	8300148930 - The Book of British Ballads by Hall, 188?, 4.99 GBP 
(ends Apr-09-05 05:05:37 PDT)	7312039703 - The Scottish Orpheus by Hamilton, 1902?, 10 GBP (ends 
Apr-09-05 10:55:38 PDT)	6954152558 - Songs of the North by Lawson, volume 1, 1910, $14.95 
AU (ends Apr-09-05 20:49:35 PDT)	7311737823 - FOLKSONGS FROM THE HIGHLANDS by Stewart, 1987, 4.99 
GBP (ends Apr-10-05 14:31:46 PDT)	8300118618 - Victoria's Inferno: Songs of the Old Mills, Mines, 
Manufactories, Canals and Railways by Raven, 3.99 GBP (ends Apr-11-05 
16:40:17 PDT)				Happy Bidding!
				Dolores-- 
Dolores Nichols 		| 
D&D Data			| Voice :	(703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None	| Email:     <[unmask]>
	--- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

Dear Readers,I just received a note from Richard Weize at Bear Family Records in 
Germany.  He's putting together an album of songs about atomic energy 
and seeks a hi-resolution (300 dpi) scan of a photograph of Vern 
Partlow.Let me know if you can help.Thanks,A. Miller
Woodside, CA

Adam:Sorry.But  Ron Cohen may have a photo.  Or Sam Hinton.Ed ----- Original Message -----
From: Adam Miller <[unmask]>
Date: Tuesday, April 5, 2005 7:30 am
Subject: Photo of Vern Partlow> Dear Readers,
> 
> I just received a note from Richard Weize at Bear Family Records in 
> Germany.  He's putting together an album of songs about atomic 
> energy 
> and seeks a hi-resolution (300 dpi) scan of a photograph of Vern 
> Partlow.
> 
> Let me know if you can help.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> A. Miller
> Woodside, CA
> 

Dear Ed,Thanks.  I'll check with Sam and Ron.  (Hope the skiing was good!)-AdamOn Apr 5, 2005, at 8:17 AM, edward cray wrote:> Adam:
>
> Sorry.
>
> But  Ron Cohen may have a photo.  Or Sam Hinton.
>
> Ed
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Adam Miller <[unmask]>
> Date: Tuesday, April 5, 2005 7:30 am
> Subject: Photo of Vern Partlow
>
>> Dear Readers,
>>
>> I just received a note from Richard Weize at Bear Family Records in
>> Germany.  He's putting together an album of songs about atomic
>> energy
>> and seeks a hi-resolution (300 dpi) scan of a photograph of Vern
>> Partlow.
>>
>> Let me know if you can help.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> A. Miller
>> Woodside, CA
>>
>

I'm new to this list, and enjoying the information
shared. This index is amazing. Thank you for making it
available.Susanna--- "Robert B. Waltz" <[unmask]> wrote:
> Balladeers --
> 
> It's been a *long* eleven months, but we have quite
> a Ballad Index
> for you. Eleven new books, 800 new songs, 2000 new
> book citations,
> 400 new recording citations.
> 
> "But wait, there's more."
> 
> We decided to do something special for Version 2.0,
> so there are two
> major new features in the Index. The first (thanks
> mostly to Ben
> Schwartz) is that we are now doing broadsides.
> 
> There is, of course, nothing new about indexing
> broadsides; it will be
> years, e.g. before we catch up with Bruce Olson --
> but we're stressing
> online broadsides: Those in the Library of Congress,
> Murray, National
> Library of Scotland, and Bodleian collections. We've
> added about 1200
> references to those catalogs.
> 
> And, finally, we've added what we call "The
> Supplemental Tradition."
> This is a collection of song texts and sample
> stanzas. I must admit
> that it has a complicated history: It started out as
> a database I
> was making to compare song texts. So there are some
> oddities in there,
> such as the critically reconstructed text of "Boney
> on the Isle of
> Saint Helena." The proportion of those is likely to
> decrease over
> time; at this point, I'm adding mostly sample
> stanzas rather than
> full texts. But there are over 600 sample texts in
> there; between
> that and the Digital Tradition and the broadside
> libraries, there
> is now an online sample for nearly a third of the
> songs in the
> Index.
> 
> (If someone wants to take those SuppTrad songs and
> put them in
> the Digital Tradition, that's fine; I just don't
> have time. And,
> of course, there are no tunes.)
> 
> I regret to report that the search engine at CSU
> Fresno is a few
> days behind (it always is); right now, you can't
> find any of
> the new songs, though the new references can be
> found for the
> old songs. That should cure itself over the next few
> days, and
> you can always download the text version of the
> Index if you're
> so inclined.
> 
> I hope people will find it helpful.
> 
> -- 
> Robert B. Waltz  - - - - - - - - Ballad Index Editor
> 1078 Colne Street
> Saint Paul, MN 55103-1348
> 651-489-1930 - - - - - - - - - - e-mail:
> [unmask]
> 
> The Ballad Index Web Site: 
>
http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/BalladIndexTOC.html
> Granny Sue
Stories from the Mountains and Beyond
R2 Box 110
Sandyville WV 25275
304-372-5861
tollfree 1-866-643-1353
[unmask]

On 4/5/05, Susanna Holstein wrote:>I'm new to this list, and enjoying the information
>shared. This index is amazing. Thank you for making it
>available.
>
>SusannaI'm glad it's useful; that's why we do it.I should note that there are actually two folk song indices out
there, ours and Steve Roud's. Roud's is much more complete as
a bibliography, and probably always will be; he has a big head
start, and he gets money for his. If you just want a catalog
of where a song is found, his is the way to go.The Traditional Ballad Index is more of a historical resource,
though of course the core of the Index is the bibliographic
references. But we stress background about the song -- history
and location and such. So the two do complement.I should add that the online index at Fresno is now current:
You can find information on all the new songs as well as the
old ones. (We go through this for a few days at every update.)-- 
Robert B. Waltz  - - - - - - - - Ballad Index Editor
1078 Colne Street
Saint Paul, MN 55103-1348
651-489-1930 - - - - - - - - - - e-mail: [unmask]The Ballad Index Web Site:
http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/BalladIndexTOC.html

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Ask here:
Rich Warren <[unmask]>> I never met Partlow, but I believe they might have a
photo at Chicago's  WFMT.
>
Oscar Brand

Can anyone out there help with the nature of the song (tune?) Harvest 
Home as quoted in the play After Easter? A literary colleague has asked, 
because she thought it was specifically political, but as a poor 
uncltured Westcountryman harvest home has only a religious connotation - 
jolly hymn-singing after the harvest and wheatsheaf-shaped loaves of 
bread, that sort of thing. As the colleague is also my boss, I'd be 
grateful for any crumb!Andy

Harvest Home is a well-known tune; I don't recall any words. What's the
context, the reference??

Harvest Home is a syncopated hornpipe in many sources [Skinner Harp &
Claymore 130; Scottish Violinist 44; Allan's Reels 41; Robertson Athole
Coll. (1884), 298; Kerr's Merry Melodies, 27; Matthew SCD Music (1954), 5
[from Lowe]; Köhler Violin Rep. 37.
-At least.  There's a strathspey with the title, otherwise called "Stirling
Castle".
There are words, actually (beginning "Come all ye jolly lads and lasses"),
by John Anderson, Upper Boyndlie; in Greig Folk Song  of the North-East,
art. clxiv, 2 [8x4 lines + 4-line cho. (begins "Blithe and merry hae we
 been")] - also a version in Ord Bothy Songs & Ballads (1930), 272 (begins
"Come, ye jolly lads and lasses").

"quoted in the play After Easter?"There seems to be a play of that name by Anne Devlin. If this is your
reference, perhaps you could regale us with the quote, rather than leave us
floundering for any old "Harvest Home" referents which do not seem to be
what you need.JohnOn 4/8/05 12:50 AM, "Andy Rouse" <[unmask]> wrote:> Can anyone out there help with the nature of the song (tune?) Harvest
> Home as quoted in the play After Easter? A literary colleague has asked,
> because she thought it was specifically political, but as a poor
> uncltured Westcountryman harvest home has only a religious connotation -
> jolly hymn-singing after the harvest and wheatsheaf-shaped loaves of
> bread, that sort of thing. As the colleague is also my boss, I'd be
> grateful for any crumb!
> 
> Andy

On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 11:44:53 -0600, Robert B. Waltz wrote:>Balladeers --
>
>It's been a *long* eleven months, but we have quite a Ballad Index
>for you. Eleven new books, 800 new songs, 2000 new book citations,
>400 new recording citations.Lovely!  Downloaded & installed.> The first (thanks mostly to Ben
>Schwartz) is that we are now doing broadsides.
>
Excellent. Included in the regular balldidx.txt file, I assume.
>
>And, finally, we've added what we call "The Supplemental Tradition."
>This is a collection of song texts and sample stanzas. I must admitThis looks good.  Is it straightforward a supplemental file or is it
integrated or referred to in the Program?FYI - the following line is on the front page of the web site.
"The current version of the Ballad Index, as of April 3, 2004, is 2.0."Thanks for all you do.
Abby-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
	          I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
	                Boycott South Carolina!
	     http://www.naacp.org/news/2001/2001-01-12.html

On 4/8/05, Abby Sale wrote:>On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 11:44:53 -0600, Robert B. Waltz wrote:
>
>>Balladeers --
>>
>>It's been a *long* eleven months, but we have quite a Ballad Index
>>for you. Eleven new books, 800 new songs, 2000 new book citations,
>>400 new recording citations.
>
>Lovely!  Downloaded & installed.
>
>> The first (thanks mostly to Ben
>>Schwartz) is that we are now doing broadsides.
>>
>Excellent. Included in the regular balldidx.txt file, I assume.Yes. For songs that have them, they'll be below the references.> >And, finally, we've added what we call "The Supplemental Tradition."
>>This is a collection of song texts and sample stanzas. I must admit
>
>This looks good.  Is it straightforward a supplemental file or is it
>integrated or referred to in the Program?It's not integrated at this point. Just a separate file, which you
can download in text for or view online in HTML. That may change
in future, but just getting it to include a reasonable number of
texts was all I could handle this time. :-)>FYI - the following line is on the front page of the web site.
>"The current version of the Ballad Index, as of April 3, 2004, is 2.0."Well, it's all right except the "2004" part. :-) Thanks.-- 
Bob Waltz
[unmask]"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

Hi,
I have 6 songs actually titled 'Harvest Home' and numerous others
titled 'Harvest Home Song' in my indexes. What collectors would do is if a
song didn't have an obvious title and it was sung regularly at a Harvest
Home then it was simply given this convenience title. Most of them are
little ditties or toasts to the master or the next crop.
Let us have more info if possible and we can come up with possibilities.As a sample there is the common 'Harvest Home Song' by Purcell and Dryden
from the opera King Arthur much reprinted.SteveG

Hi!	Here I am again! As the cherry blossoms and tourists, pay their
annual visit to Washington, I begin my weekly visit to ballad-l. 	The songsters & general folklore lists will be posted tomorrow.	MISCELLANEOUS	4717596312 - Bradley Kincaid ~ Album Number Four, LP, $1.99 (ends 
Apr-09-05 17:24:17 PDT)	4716674521 - MOUNTAIN BALLADS & OLD HYMNS by Sizemore, LP, 1960? 
copy of 1930's record, $9.99 (ends Apr-14-05 10:23:24 PDT)	SONGBOOKS, ETC.	7312732454 - Irish Country Songs by Hughes, 1909, $19.99 (ends 
Apr-09-05 13:24:25 PDT)	7312737393 - Folk Songs of Canada by Fowke & Johnston, 1975 
reprint, $2.99 C (ends Apr-09-05 13:47:29 PDT)	4540932615 - The British Broadside Ballad and Its Music by 
Simpson, 1966, $60 (ends Apr-10-05 18:09:25 PDT)	6954691742 - Scottish Songs and Heroic Ballads by Herd, Volume 2, 
1869, $5 (ends Apr-10-05 18:14:26 PDT)	7313137119 - Pint Pot and Billy by Fahey, 1977 printing, $3 AU 
(ends Apr-11-05 06:14:22 PDT)	4541241249 - Sea Songs & Shanties by Whall, 1920 edition, $8.50 
(ends Apr-11-05 18:02:43 PDT)	4541216705 - Ozark Folksongs by Randolph, 4 volumes, 1980, $20.50 
(ends Apr-11-05 18:45:00 PDT)	4541311638 - America Sings by Carmer, 1942, $5 (ends Apr-11-05 
22:57:54 PDT)	4541411127 - Murders and Moralities - English Catchpenny Prints by
Gretton, 1980, $4 (ends Apr-12-05 09:14:35 PDT)	4539994898 - Texas Folk Songs by Owens, 1976, $0.99 (ends 
Apr-12-05 10:00:00 PDT)	4541478254 - Folk Songs of the Southern Appalachians by Ritchie, 
1965, $6 (ends Apr-12-05 13:23:32 PDT)	6954996124 - Folk Songs of Old New England by Linscott, 1962, $7 
(ends Apr-12-05 14:07:36 PDT)	8300622591 - FOLK SONGS COLLECTED BY RALPH VAUGHAN WILLIAMS by 
Palmer, 1983, 3.50 GBP (ends Apr-12-05 14:10:30 PDT)	6955040801 - Folk Songs of the American Negro by Work, 1900?, 
$2.50 (ends Apr-12-05 20:18:22 PDT)	8300685454 - SCOTTISH TRADITIONAL MUSIC by Wood, 1991, 1.99 GBP 
(ends Apr-13-05 04:17:36 PDT)	4541899778 - Songs & Ballads from Nova Scotia by Creighton, 1966 
Dover edition, $5.95 (ends Apr-14-05 07:02:35 PDT)	7313953143 - SOUTH CAROLINA BALLADS by Smith, 1928, $75 (ends 
Apr-14-05 13:10:40 PDT)	6955346235 - Ozark Folksongs by Randolph, volume 1, 1980, $9.99 
(ends Apr-14-05 22:48:47 PDT)	8300755442 - Who Wrote The Ballads by Manifold, 1964, $0.99 AU 
(ends Apr-16-05 15:10:50 PDT)	7313955540 - Ancient Scots Ballads with their traditional airs by 
Eyre-Todd, 4 GBP (ends Apr-17-05 13:18:51 PDT)	5183990367 - Selections from the Early Ballad Poetry of England 
and Scotland by King, 1842, 0.99 GBP (ends Apr-17-05 16:12:04 PDT)	8300931044 - Folk Songs of Australia by Meredith & Anderson, 1979,
$9.99 AU (ends Apr-18-05 00:08:38 PDT)				Happy Bidding!
				Dolores-- 
Dolores Nichols 		| 
D&D Data			| Voice :	(703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None	| Email:     <[unmask]>
	--- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

Hi!	While the flowers bloom & pollen fills the air, here is the next
Ebay list. 	SONGSTERS & BROADSIDES	6953856650 - THE BUNKER HILL SONGSTER, no date, $23.95 (ends 
Apr-10-05 19:00:00 PDT)	6168694542 - Novelty Dramatic Co's Songster (Merchant's Garlgling 
Oil), 1888, $19.99 (ends Apr-12-05 07:41:10 PDT)	7313557186 - Broadside (SINCE TERRY FIRST JOINED THE GANG), 1870, 
$10.49 (ends Apr-12-05 19:04:08 PDT)	3969070729 - The Negro Forget Me Not Songster, 1840?, $190 (ends 
Apr-13-05 18:15:46 PDT)	6955302796 - MERCHANT'S GARGLING OIL SONGSTER, 1890?, $2 (ends 
Apr-14-05 15:03:52 PDT)	OTHER	6955467097 - BROADSIDE BALLADS OF THE RESTORATION PERIOD, 1930, 
$9.99 (ends Apr-15-05 21:24:23 PDT)				Happy Bidding!
				Dolores-- 
Dolores Nichols 		| 
D&D Data			| Voice :	(703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None	| Email:     <[unmask]>
	--- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

Hi!	Here is the last posting for this week. Now off to do taxes. :-(	JOURNALS	6954995602 - Journal of American Folklore, Jan-Mar 1981, $9.99 
(ends Apr-12-05 14:05:43 PDT)	6955002381 - Journal of American Folklore, Apr-June 1981, $9.99 
(ends Apr-12-05 14:36:47 PDT)	6955333058 - NORTH CAROLINA FOLKLORE JOURNAL, Summer-Fall 1991, 
$8 (ends Apr-17-05 19:23:40 PDT)	6955333754 - NORTH CAROLINA FOLKLORE JOURNAL, Winter-Spring 1989,
$8 (ends Apr-17-05 19:29:58 PDT)	6955335452 - NORTH CAROLINA FOLKLORE JOURNAL, Fall-Summer 1993, 
$8 (ends Apr-17-05 19:44:45 PDT)	6955336907 - NORTH CAROLINA FOLKLORE JOURNAL, Summer-Fall 1996, $8
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18:11:52 PDT)	4540268709 - The Summer Walkers by Neat, 1996, $8.99 (ends 
Apr-10-05 20:37:53 PDT)	5182773178 - Dorset, Up Along And Down Along by Dacombe, 1935?, 
3.50 GBP (ends Apr-11-05 12:05:34 PDT)	4541232655 - Folk Art in Texas by Abernethy, 1985, $7.99 (ends 
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18:44:40 PDT)	4541264684 - Standard Dictionary of Folklore, Mythology and Legend 
by Leach, 2 volumes, 1949, $24.99 (ends Apr-11-05 19:02:31 PDT)	6955136135 - 4 books on the folklore & history of the Erie Canal, 
1945-1977, $17.50 (ends Apr-11-05 20:00:00 PDT)	6168814350 - Ghosts and Legends of Carroll County, Maryland by 
Glass, 1982, $3.99 (ends Apr-12-05 12:43:57 PDT)	4541550256 - Piled Higher and Deeper The Folklore of Campus Life 
by Bronner, 1990, $2.93 (ends Apr-12-05 18:16:50 PDT)	6955100337 -  Forms Upon the Frontier: Folklife and Folk Arts in 
the United States by Fife, Fife & Glassie, 1969, $6 (ends Apr-13-05 
09:40:30 PDT)	4541812427 - Sailortown by Hugill, 1967, $4.25. (ends Apr-13-05 
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Apr-13-05 23:44:52 PDT)	4541965687 - TUG HILL COUNTRY - Tales from the Big Woods by Samson,
1974, $9.95 (ends Apr-14-05 12:26:36 PDT)	4541985849 - Faiths and Folklore of the British Isles by Hazlitt, 
2 volumes, 1965, $9.99 (ends Apr-14-05 13:12:14 PDT)	4542011282 - The Horn Book by Legman, 1964, $7.99 (ends Apr-14-05 
15:08:55 PDT)	4542045423 - KANSAS FOLKLORE by Sackett & Koch, 1961, $9.98 (ends
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(ends Apr-15-05 12:15:26 PDT)	6955511821 - MYTHS AND FOLKLORE OF IRELAND by Curtin, 1996 
printing, $6.95 (ends Apr-16-05 08:20:28 PDT)				Happy Bidding!
				Dolores-- 
Dolores Nichols 		| 
D&D Data			| Voice :	(703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None	| Email:     <[unmask]>
	--- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

Appropos of nothing except that I really enjoyed reading about 
Richard Trevithick, his locomotive, Camborne Hill, and Lady de 
Dunstanville, and also hearing "Camborne Hill," which, I understand, 
is currently available in a rock version.http://www.brycchancarey.com/places/cornwall/songs.htmhttp://www.boswarva.demon.co.uk/music.htmlJohn

Please take your time to read this all the way through.CRISIS:Study proves that children
do not know their folksongs and that
teachers do not teach them.Is there any registered non-profit organization or
qualified government entity / public arts agency
on this list or for profit company that would be willing work with my
company and John Broomall Executive Director
Pennsylvania Alliance For Arts Education to
protect Children's Music & the Oral Tradition?Find out what you can do to help prevent this
precious resource from slipping away and being lost to us forever.UF STUDY: CHILDREN'S KNOWLEDGE GAP
OF FOLK SONGS THREATENS HERITAGE
http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/NCFR/opportunity.htmlStates are RankedChildren in the United States aren't singing the songs of their heritage, an
omission that puts the nation in jeopardy of losing a long standing and rich
part of its identity.
http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/NCFR/NCFR2.htmlYou Can Keep their Traditions Alive by asking children
to record themselves into  theNATIONAL CHILDRE'NS FOLKSONG REPOSITORY
http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/NCFR/NCFR.htmlThis would be an excellent activity  to promote at
http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/NCFR/participant.htmlWatch the Video
http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/NCFR/ecprm.htmlPlease contact me personally - off list
if you have any questions and  would like to
find out more.thanks,Karen EllisEducational CyberPlayGround
Guavaberry Books
National Children's Folksong Repository<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>
The Educational CyberPlayGround
http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/National Children's Folksong Repository
http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/NCFR/Hot List of Schools Online and
Net Happenings, K12 Newsletters, Network Newsletters
http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/Community/7 Hot Site Awards
New York Times, USA Today , MSNBC, Earthlink,
USA Today Best Bets For Educators, Macworld Top Fifty
<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>  

What a brilliant idea!
I might suggest we do something similar in the UK.
SteveG

 From G. W. Henry, Travels in Egypt, 1853, pp 51-52:(Describing a noon meal on a farm where he worked as a stone layer, 
in about 1820, in Herkimer County, New York, home of the Frankfort 
Furnace Company,
http://www.rootsweb.com/~nyherkim/frankfort/earlyfrank.html  At the 
time, Henry was about 19 years old.)When the dinner was over, instead of being hurried away into the old 
coal-house, we retired into an adjoining room, or, perhaps, to a 
well-swept barn floor, there to enjoy our "noon spell" in listening 
to the music of an old-fashioned instrument played by the fair hand 
of the farmer's daughter; and many times the neighboring girls would 
bring in their musical instruments and join in the sweet concert, 
while mellifluent voices, bass and treble, filled the rich measure of 
the choir.  How sad that such music is no longer heard - that that 
old instrument, the delight of our grandmothers, is now almost 
obsolete, and its very name is numbered among the things that were; 
an instrument that, while it delighted the ear of the farmer with its 
merry buzz, imparted a glow of freshness and healthful beauty to the 
cheek of his blithesome daughter.  If any of my younger readers are 
at a loss to know what musical instrument I refer to, they can 
inquire of their grandmother, and she will give them a full account 
of it.****What instrument is this?  I have my idea, but I don't want to set it 
down here because I'd like to get unbiased opinions of others.  I 
should say, however, that it is clearly not the fiddle, which Henry 
mentions frequently.John
-- 
john garst    [unmask]

Quite honestly, I don't have any real idea of what the
instrument is. But as I read this, the first thing that
popped into my head was "hammered dulcimer". This was a very
popular instrument throughout New York state during the 19th
century (though I don't know how far back it goes in
American musical history), and in my area of southwestern
New York state there was a hammered dulcimer factory in a
hamlet called Stedman during that century (but I don't know
how early in the century). What makes me think I am probably
totally off-base is that the h.d. was still popular in MY
part of the state well past 1820. (And indeed, still is, on
a revival basis; Dorogi dulcimers were made here in the
1970's and 80's.)Whether it still was in Central NY at that
time I can't say. But it was used a salon instrument, often
played by the female members of the family.
Call this an idle fancy or a grossly unwarranted
speculation, but I've got a hammered dulcimer playing in my
brain at the moment. What it does point out is that I need
to learn much more about our area's involvement with the
instrument!
Tom Bingham
School of Music
SUNY Fredonia> 
>  From G. W. Henry, Travels in Egypt, 1853, pp 51-52:
> 
> (Describing a noon meal on a farm where he worked as a
> stone layer,  in about 1820, in Herkimer County, New York,
> home of the Frankfort  Furnace Company,
>
http://www.rootsweb.com/~nyherkim/frankfort/earlyfrank.html
>  At the  time, Henry was about 19 years old.)
> 
> When the dinner was over, instead of being hurried away
> into the old  coal-house, we retired into an adjoining
> room, or, perhaps, to a  well-swept barn floor, there to
> enjoy our "noon spell" in listening  to the music of an
> old-fashioned instrument played by the fair hand  of the
> farmer's daughter; and many times the neighboring girls
> would  bring in their musical instruments and join in the
> sweet concert,  while mellifluent voices, bass and treble,
> filled the rich measure of  the choir.  How sad that such
> music is no longer heard - that that  old instrument, the
> delight of our grandmothers, is now almost  obsolete, and
> its very name is numbered among the things that were;  an
> instrument that, while it delighted the ear of the farmer
> with its  merry buzz, imparted a glow of freshness and
> healthful beauty to the  cheek of his blithesome daughter.
>  If any of my younger readers are  at a loss to know what
> musical instrument I refer to, they can  inquire of their
> grandmother, and she will give them a full account  of it.
> 
> ****
> 
> What instrument is this?  I have my idea, but I don't want
> to set it  down here because I'd like to get unbiased
> opinions of others.  I  should say, however, that it is
> clearly not the fiddle, which Henry  mentions frequently.
> 
> John
> -- 
> john garst    [unmask]

On 4/12/05, Steve Gardham wrote:>What a brilliant idea!
>I might suggest we do something similar in the UK.But if they're taught in the schools, are they folk songs? Serious
question. I suspect that there is no better way to *ruin* folk
songs than to "teach" them.Note that "teaching" them is not the same as making them
accessible.-- 
Bob Waltz
[unmask]"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

I don't have a clue about this instrument, but for the complete story of the hammered dulcimer, consult: Paul Gifford, THE HAMMERED DULCIMER: A HISTORY (Scarecrow Press, 2001), where there is everything anyone would want to know, and more. Ronald CohenCc:	
Subject:	Re: Mysterious instrumentQuite honestly, I don't have any real idea of what the
instrument is. But as I read this, the first thing that
popped into my head was "hammered dulcimer". This was a very
popular instrument throughout New York state during the 19th
century (though I don't know how far back it goes in
American musical history), and in my area of southwestern
New York state there was a hammered dulcimer factory in a
hamlet called Stedman during that century (but I don't know
how early in the century). What makes me think I am probably
totally off-base is that the h.d. was still popular in MY
part of the state well past 1820. (And indeed, still is, on
a revival basis; Dorogi dulcimers were made here in the
1970's and 80's.)Whether it still was in Central NY at that
time I can't say. But it was used a salon instrument, often
played by the female members of the family.
Call this an idle fancy or a grossly unwarranted
speculation, but I've got a hammered dulcimer playing in my
brain at the moment. What it does point out is that I need
to learn much more about our area's involvement with the
instrument!
Tom Bingham
School of Music
SUNY Fredonia> 
>  From G. W. Henry, Travels in Egypt, 1853, pp 51-52:
> 
> (Describing a noon meal on a farm where he worked as a
> stone layer,  in about 1820, in Herkimer County, New York,
> home of the Frankfort  Furnace Company,
>
http://www.rootsweb.com/~nyherkim/frankfort/earlyfrank.html
>  At the  time, Henry was about 19 years old.)
> 
> When the dinner was over, instead of being hurried away
> into the old  coal-house, we retired into an adjoining
> room, or, perhaps, to a  well-swept barn floor, there to
> enjoy our "noon spell" in listening  to the music of an
> old-fashioned instrument played by the fair hand  of the
> farmer's daughter; and many times the neighboring girls
> would  bring in their musical instruments and join in the
> sweet concert,  while mellifluent voices, bass and treble,
> filled the rich measure of  the choir.  How sad that such
> music is no longer heard - that that  old instrument, the
> delight of our grandmothers, is now almost  obsolete, and
> its very name is numbered among the things that were;  an
> instrument that, while it delighted the ear of the farmer
> with its  merry buzz, imparted a glow of freshness and
> healthful beauty to the  cheek of his blithesome daughter.
>  If any of my younger readers are  at a loss to know what
> musical instrument I refer to, they can  inquire of their
> grandmother, and she will give them a full account  of it.
> 
> ****
> 
> What instrument is this?  I have my idea, but I don't want
> to set it  down here because I'd like to get unbiased
> opinions of others.  I  should say, however, that it is
> clearly not the fiddle, which Henry  mentions frequently.
> 
> John
> -- 
> john garst    [unmask]

Thanks, Tom."...an instrument that, while it delighted the ear of the farmer with 
its  merry buzz, imparted a glow of freshness and healthful beauty to 
the  cheek of his blithesome daughter."Do you think that "merry buzz" fits the sound of the hammered dulcimer?John>Quite honestly, I don't have any real idea of what the
>instrument is. But as I read this, the first thing that
>popped into my head was "hammered dulcimer". This was a very
>popular instrument throughout New York state during the 19th
>century (though I don't know how far back it goes in
>American musical history), and in my area of southwestern
>New York state there was a hammered dulcimer factory in a
>hamlet called Stedman during that century (but I don't know
>how early in the century). What makes me think I am probably
>totally off-base is that the h.d. was still popular in MY
>part of the state well past 1820. (And indeed, still is, on
>a revival basis; Dorogi dulcimers were made here in the
>1970's and 80's.)Whether it still was in Central NY at that
>time I can't say. But it was used a salon instrument, often
>played by the female members of the family.
>Call this an idle fancy or a grossly unwarranted
>speculation, but I've got a hammered dulcimer playing in my
>brain at the moment. What it does point out is that I need
>to learn much more about our area's involvement with the
>instrument!
>Tom Bingham

What's going on here?  I've received two messages headed "Re: UF 
STUDY" but no original, so I'm having a hard time deciphering the 
discussion.John>On 4/12/05, Steve Gardham wrote:
>
>>What a brilliant idea!
>>I might suggest we do something similar in the UK.
>
>But if they're taught in the schools, are they folk songs? Serious
>question. I suspect that there is no better way to *ruin* folk
>songs than to "teach" them.
>
>Note that "teaching" them is not the same as making them
>accessible.
>
>--
>Bob Waltz

<<But if they're taught in the schools, are they folk songs? Serious
question. I suspect that there is no better way to *ruin* folk
songs than to "teach" them.>>I've been teaching a Kodaly-based folksong-rich curriculum in the public
schools for 15 years, and I always try to play as many
variants/recordings of each of the songs that I can fine. I also try to
teach the kids that "even though this is the way I learned the tune,
there are many other ways to sing it". I find that because my students generally aren't sung to by their
parents, they don't even know "Home on the Range", except that it's
connected with a recent Disney movie. And even though it may "ruin" the
folk tradition, at least they're hearing a live version of a tune that's
been passed on. Of course the many guest folk artists I've had come play
for the kids over the years helps this immensely, but some day the kids
may be so interested in the tradition that they actually unplug their
guitars and learn new old tunes for themselves.Beth Brooks
"in the trenches"

Another issue:The original quote suggests that the instrument was used to accompany 
singing.  I don't think of the hammered dulcimer that way.  Am I 
deficient in my thinking?John>Thanks, Tom.
>
>"...an instrument that, while it delighted the ear of the farmer 
>with its  merry buzz, imparted a glow of freshness and healthful 
>beauty to the  cheek of his blithesome daughter."
>
>Do you think that "merry buzz" fits the sound of the hammered dulcimer?
>
>John
>
>>Quite honestly, I don't have any real idea of what the
>>instrument is. But as I read this, the first thing that
>>popped into my head was "hammered dulcimer". This was a very
>>popular instrument throughout New York state during the 19th
>>century (though I don't know how far back it goes in
>>American musical history), and in my area of southwestern
>>New York state there was a hammered dulcimer factory in a
>>hamlet called Stedman during that century (but I don't know
>>how early in the century). What makes me think I am probably
>>totally off-base is that the h.d. was still popular in MY
>>part of the state well past 1820. (And indeed, still is, on
>>a revival basis; Dorogi dulcimers were made here in the
>>1970's and 80's.)Whether it still was in Central NY at that
>>time I can't say. But it was used a salon instrument, often
>>played by the female members of the family.
>>Call this an idle fancy or a grossly unwarranted
>>speculation, but I've got a hammered dulcimer playing in my
>>brain at the moment. What it does point out is that I need
>>to learn much more about our area's involvement with the
>>instrument!
>>Tom Bingham

Well, "merry buzz" brings a hurdy-gurdy to my mind, and the effort involved
in cranking it could well impart "a glow of freshness and healthful beauty
to the  cheek of his blithesome daughter."Peace,
Paul

Yet another:"Dulcimer," as I recall, is mentioned in the King James Bible.  Is it 
likely that such a well-known name would be lost to the writer, G. W. 
Henry?J>Another issue:
>
>The original quote suggests that the instrument was used to 
>accompany singing.  I don't think of the hammered dulcimer that way. 
>Am I deficient in my thinking?
>
>John
>
>>Thanks, Tom.
>>
>>"...an instrument that, while it delighted the ear of the farmer 
>>with its  merry buzz, imparted a glow of freshness and healthful 
>>beauty to the  cheek of his blithesome daughter."
>>
>>Do you think that "merry buzz" fits the sound of the hammered dulcimer?
>>
>>John
>>
>>>Quite honestly, I don't have any real idea of what the
>>>instrument is. But as I read this, the first thing that
>>>popped into my head was "hammered dulcimer". This was a very
>>>popular instrument throughout New York state during the 19th
>>>century (though I don't know how far back it goes in
>>>American musical history), and in my area of southwestern
>>>New York state there was a hammered dulcimer factory in a
>>>hamlet called Stedman during that century (but I don't know
>>>how early in the century). What makes me think I am probably
>>>totally off-base is that the h.d. was still popular in MY
>>>part of the state well past 1820. (And indeed, still is, on
>>>a revival basis; Dorogi dulcimers were made here in the
>>>1970's and 80's.)Whether it still was in Central NY at that
>>>time I can't say. But it was used a salon instrument, often
>>>played by the female members of the family.
>>>Call this an idle fancy or a grossly unwarranted
>>>speculation, but I've got a hammered dulcimer playing in my
>>>brain at the moment. What it does point out is that I need
>>>to learn much more about our area's involvement with the
>>>instrument!
>>>Tom Bingham
>

Thanks, Paul.Your suggestion may be plausible, but isn't the hurdy-gurdy a rather 
large instrument?  Was it ever fashionable as a favored instrument of 
women, as the Henry passage implies?John>Well, "merry buzz" brings a hurdy-gurdy to my mind, and the effort involved
>in cranking it could well impart "a glow of freshness and healthful beauty
>to the  cheek of his blithesome daughter."
>
>Peace,
>Paul

I think it can, because of the buildup of overtones. A lot
of anecdotal writers from this era just plain didn't
describe what they heard very accurately. I think
"resonance" could translate into "buzz" in a case like this.
For that matter, it could be a hurdy-gurdy, with "drone"
translating into "buzz". As I say, I'm only speculating.
Tom> "...an instrument that, while it delighted the ear of the
> farmer with  its  merry buzz, imparted a glow of freshness
> and healthful beauty to  the  cheek of his blithesome
> daughter."
> 
> Do you think that "merry buzz" fits the sound of the
> hammered dulcimer?
> 
> John

Guess I missed that one. Thanks for the tip.
Tom
> 
> I don't have a clue about this instrument, but for the
> complete story of the hammered dulcimer, consult: Paul
> Gifford, THE HAMMERED DULCIMER: A HISTORY (Scarecrow Press
> , 2001), where there is everything anyone would want to
> know, and more. Ronald Cohen
> 
> 
> 
> Cc:    
> Subject:    Re: Mysterious instrument
> 
> Quite honestly, I don't have any real idea of what the
> instrument is. But as I read this, the first thing that
> popped into my head was "hammered dulcimer". This was a
> very popular instrument throughout New York state during
> the 19th century (though I don't know how far back it goes
> in American musical history), and in my area of
> southwestern New York state there was a hammered dulcimer
> factory in a hamlet called Stedman during that century
> (but I don't know how early in the century). What makes me
> think I am probably totally off-base is that the h.d. was
> still popular in MY part of the state well past 1820. (And
> indeed, still is, on a revival basis; Dorogi dulcimers
> were made here in the 1970's and 80's.)Whether it still
> was in Central NY at that time I can't say. But it was
> used a salon instrument, often played by the female
> members of the family. Call this an idle fancy or a
> grossly unwarranted speculation, but I've got a hammered
> dulcimer playing in my brain at the moment. What it does
> point out is that I need to learn much more about our
> area's involvement with the instrument!
> Tom Bingham
> School of Music
> SUNY Fredonia> 
> >  From G. W. Henry, Travels in Egypt, 1853, pp 51-52:
> > 
> > (Describing a noon meal on a farm where he worked as a
> > stone layer,  in about 1820, in Herkimer County, New
> > York, home of the Frankfort  Furnace Company,
> >
>
http://www.rootsweb.com/~nyherkim/frankfort/earlyfrank.html
> >  At the  time, Henry was about 19 years old.)
> > 
> > When the dinner was over, instead of being hurried away
> > into the old  coal-house, we retired into an adjoining
> > room, or, perhaps, to a  well-swept barn floor, there to
> > enjoy our "noon spell" in listening  to the music of an
> > old-fashioned instrument played by the fair hand  of the
> > farmer's daughter; and many times the neighboring girls
> > would  bring in their musical instruments and join in
> > the sweet concert,  while mellifluent voices, bass and
> > treble, filled the rich measure of  the choir.  How sad
> > that such music is no longer heard - that that  old
> > instrument, the delight of our grandmothers, is now
> > almost  obsolete, and its very name is numbered among
> > the things that were;  an instrument that, while it
> > delighted the ear of the farmer with its  merry buzz,
> > imparted a glow of freshness and healthful beauty to the
> >   cheek of his blithesome daughter. If any of my younger
> > readers are  at a loss to know what musical instrument I
> > refer to, they can  inquire of their grandmother, and
> > she will give them a full account  of it. 
> > ****
> > 
> > What instrument is this?  I have my idea, but I don't
> > want to set it  down here because I'd like to get
> > unbiased opinions of others.  I  should say, however,
> > that it is clearly not the fiddle, which Henry  mentions
> > frequently. 
> > John
> > -- 
> > john garst    [unmask]

Not uncommon if played quietly, but I'm inclined to agree at
this point that the h.d. may be out of contention. 
Tom
> Another issue:
> 
> The original quote suggests that the instrument was used
> to accompany  singing.  I don't think of the hammered
> dulcimer that way.  Am I  deficient in my thinking?
> 
> John
> 

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

At 04:08 PM 4/12/2005 -0400, you wrote:
> From G. W. Henry, Travels in Egypt, 1853, pp 51-52:
>
>(Describing a noon meal on a farm where he worked as a stone layer, in 
>about 1820, in Herkimer County, New York, home of the Frankfort Furnace 
>Company,
>http://www.rootsweb.com/~nyherkim/frankfort/earlyfrank.html  At the time, 
>Henry was about 19 years old.)
>
>When the dinner was over, instead of being hurried away into the old 
>coal-house, we retired into an adjoining room, or, perhaps, to a 
>well-swept barn floor, there to enjoy our "noon spell" in listening to the 
>music of an old-fashioned instrument played by the fair hand of the 
>farmer's daughter; and many times the neighboring girls would bring in 
>their musical instruments and join in the sweet concert, while mellifluent 
>voices, bass and treble, filled the rich measure of the choir.  How sad 
>that such music is no longer heard - that that old instrument, the delight 
>of our grandmothers, is now almost obsolete, and its very name is numbered 
>among the things that were; an instrument that, while it delighted the ear 
>of the farmer with its merry buzz, imparted a glow of freshness and 
>healthful beauty to the cheek of his blithesome daughter.  If any of my 
>younger readers are at a loss to know what musical instrument I refer to, 
>they can inquire of their grandmother, and she will give them a full 
>account of it.
>****
>What instrument is this?  I have my idea, but I don't want to set it down 
>here because I'd like to get unbiased opinions of others.  I should say, 
>however, that it is clearly not the fiddle, which Henry mentions frequently.
>
>JohnIt is, quite obviously and with no doubt at all, the beautiful mountain 
dulcimer.
(Which I play here today in upstate New York)
Lisa Johnson

At 05:52 PM 4/12/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>>What instrument is this?  I have my idea, but I don't want to set it down 
>>here because I'd like to get unbiased opinions of others.  I should say, 
>>however, that it is clearly not the fiddle, which Henry mentions frequently.
>>
>>John
>
>
>It is, quite obviously and with no doubt at all, the beautiful mountain 
>dulcimer.
>(Which I play here today in upstate New York)
>Lisa JohnsonAnd here is a fairly good succinct history article about the mountain 
dulcimer, with some photos of old ones, written by quite probably today's 
leading historian of the instrument:
http://www.dulcimersessions.com/jul03/appalachain.html
and a little more info:
http://www.sci.edu/classes/ellertsen/dulcimer2.html
Lisa Johnson
(mountain dulcimer player)

On 4/12/05, John Garst wrote:>Yet another:
>
>"Dulcimer," as I recall, is mentioned in the King James Bible.  Is it likely that such a well-known name would be lost to the writer, G. W. Henry?"Dulcimer" is mentioned in the KJV of Daniel 3:5, 10, 15.That is, however, a typical KJV error. New Revised Standard Version
renders "drum." It's a Greek loanword, symphonia, literally "with-sound,"
which in Greek means an "accompaniment," but since the Hebrew has its
own word for that, the guess was that it means a drone instrument.
Hence KJV dulcimer and the translation "bagpipe" you see in other
places. But the NRSV rendering seems to be supported by recent
research.If the word applies to a stringed instrument at all, which is
highly doubtful, I think it would be more like the Mountain
Dulcimer than the hammered.FWIW.-- 
Bob Waltz
[unmask]"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

On 4/12/05, Beth Brooks wrote:><<But if they're taught in the schools, are they folk songs? Serious
>question. I suspect that there is no better way to *ruin* folk
>songs than to "teach" them.>>
>
>I've been teaching a Kodaly-based folksong-rich curriculum in the public
>schools for 15 years, and I always try to play as many
>variants/recordings of each of the songs that I can fine. I also try to
>teach the kids that "even though this is the way I learned the tune,
>there are many other ways to sing it".
>
>I find that because my students generally aren't sung to by their
>parents, they don't even know "Home on the Range", except that it's
>connected with a recent Disney movie. And even though it may "ruin" the
>folk tradition, at least they're hearing a live version of a tune that's
>been passed on. Of course the many guest folk artists I've had come play
>for the kids over the years helps this immensely, but some day the kids
>may be so interested in the tradition that they actually unplug their
>guitars and learn new old tunes for themselves.
>I'm not trying to deny this. I just wonder about its utility. Is this
oral tradition? And even if it is, will the kids keep singing the
songs?I freely concede that nothing *else* is working....-- 
Bob Waltz
[unmask]"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

Okay-   Going to step up on this one... as one of the students of they "forced folklore" in the curriculum programs being described.The plan went something like this:Kindergarten: Reading and recitation was nursery rhymes.1-3 Music class was local " child appropriate ballads" ( I lived in The Shenandoah valley)4-6 grades Reading, recitation and spelling words were pulled from English literature and a lot of English and American poetry- markedly, folk storied and "pastoral poets" that required a great deal of sociological context. the emphasis on public speaking and presentation of what you were reading put the tradition in context- and made it alive. 7-8 Middle English, "Ballad" Poetry and a great deal of the " coherent" material ( no fragments) that appears in the Child collection.I am effectively hooked. I remember all these songs fondly and , as a flute player, I am continually stunned by how many marches and polkas I hear as dance tunes that I remember learning words to when in school.   Even though my parents didn't sing most of these songs they are so contextually part of my childhood that I consider these songs "mine".  I teach them to other people.  It starts a conversation.  At that point, it feels like folk music to me.I credit this curriculum as well for providing a great "ear" for a tune and it's words. It is easy for me to pick up the tunes or remember the words after a few repeats of the refrain.   Nothing to my credit and everything to the training I received in grade school.  In short, we can't all live at the knee of a great singer, we might as well pass on what we can.  If that means lining up impressionable kindergarteners and singing Barbara Allen so be it.Liz in new Hampshire, where it opted to snow again.  Sigh.-----Original Message-----
From: Forum for ballad scholars [mailto:[unmask]]On
Behalf Of Robert B. Waltz
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 5:16 PM
To: [unmask]
Subject: Re: UF STUDYOn 4/12/05, Beth Brooks wrote:><<But if they're taught in the schools, are they folk songs? Serious
>question. I suspect that there is no better way to *ruin* folk
>songs than to "teach" them.>>
>
>I've been teaching a Kodaly-based folksong-rich curriculum in the public
>schools for 15 years, and I always try to play as many
>variants/recordings of each of the songs that I can fine. I also try to
>teach the kids that "even though this is the way I learned the tune,
>there are many other ways to sing it".
>
>I find that because my students generally aren't sung to by their
>parents, they don't even know "Home on the Range", except that it's
>connected with a recent Disney movie. And even though it may "ruin" the
>folk tradition, at least they're hearing a live version of a tune that's
>been passed on. Of course the many guest folk artists I've had come play
>for the kids over the years helps this immensely, but some day the kids
>may be so interested in the tradition that they actually unplug their
>guitars and learn new old tunes for themselves.
>I'm not trying to deny this. I just wonder about its utility. Is this
oral tradition? And even if it is, will the kids keep singing the
songs?I freely concede that nothing *else* is working....-- 
Bob Waltz
[unmask]"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

<<Your suggestion may be plausible, but isn't the hurdy-gurdy a rather
large instrument?  Was it ever fashionable as a favored instrument of
women, as the Henry passage implies?>>Most of the ones I've seen have been smaller than a guitar -- and guitars,
of course, were quite popular among young women in the 19th century.
Hurdy-gurdies sit nicely on the lap.Peace,
Paul

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

A long way from the US of A of course, but the hurdy-gurdy or vielle is
still to this day a relatively common folk instrument in central & southern
France, and is generally played by women, who usually play standing up, with
the instrument held in a shoulder sling.  Just a thought.CheersSimon-----Original Message-----
From: Forum for ballad scholars [mailto:[unmask]] On
Behalf Of Paul Stamler
Sent: 12 April 2005 23:51
To: [unmask]
Subject: Re: Mysterious instrument<<Your suggestion may be plausible, but isn't the hurdy-gurdy a rather
large instrument?  Was it ever fashionable as a favored instrument of
women, as the Henry passage implies?>>Most of the ones I've seen have been smaller than a guitar -- and guitars,
of course, were quite popular among young women in the 19th century.
Hurdy-gurdies sit nicely on the lap.Peace,
Paul

How about a bowed psaltery?Jane Keefer----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Stamler" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: Mysterious instrument> <<Your suggestion may be plausible, but isn't the hurdy-gurdy a rather
> large instrument?  Was it ever fashionable as a favored instrument of
> women, as the Henry passage implies?>>
>
> Most of the ones I've seen have been smaller than a guitar -- and guitars,
> of course, were quite popular among young women in the 19th century.
> Hurdy-gurdies sit nicely on the lap.
>
> Peace,
> Paul

At 04:06 PM 4/12/2005 -0700, you wrote:
>How about a bowed psaltery?
>
>Jane KeeferBowed psalteries were invented in the 1940's by a music teacher.  Plucked 
psalteries are ancient instruments, but were not common at all in early 
America.
Lisa

And the French vielles that I know and play are really LOUD (for 
dance music), and unless you had an uncommon "ladies' model" or one 
with a guitar shaped body, such as turn up in aristrocratic society 
(especially France) from time to time, I think the hurdy gurdy would 
be ruled out (or at least unlikely) for New England.The hammered dulcimer can give off a buzz, and can be used to 
accompany singing, but I think the mountain dulcimer is a much better 
guess.I have yet to hear a jaw harp characterized as "mellifluent voices", 
so I'll go for mt. dulcimer as my best guess.Any more "mellifluent suggestions?"davidAt 12:10 AM +0100 4/13/05, Simon Furey wrote:
>A long way from the US of A of course, but the hurdy-gurdy or vielle is
>still to this day a relatively common folk instrument in central & southern
>France, and is generally played by women, who usually play standing up, with
>the instrument held in a shoulder sling. 
>
>Just a thought.
>
>Cheers
>
>Simon
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Forum for ballad scholars [mailto:[unmask]] On
>Behalf Of Paul Stamler
>Sent: 12 April 2005 23:51
>To: [unmask]
>Subject: Re: Mysterious instrument
>
><<Your suggestion may be plausible, but isn't the hurdy-gurdy a rather
>large instrument?  Was it ever fashionable as a favored instrument of
>women, as the Henry passage implies?>>
>
>Most of the ones I've seen have been smaller than a guitar -- and guitars,
>of course, were quite popular among young women in the 19th century.
>Hurdy-gurdies sit nicely on the lap.
>
>Peace,
>Paul-- 
David G. EngleCalifornia State University, Fresno
[unmask]
Tel: (559) 278-2708; FAX: (559) 278-7878The Traditional Ballad Index Web Site:
http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/BalladIndexTOC.html

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

At 04:30 PM 4/12/2005 -0700, you wrote:>I have yet to hear a jaw harp characterized as "mellifluent voices", so 
>I'll go for mt. dulcimer as my best guess.The mental picture of all those delicate maidens lined up producing modest 
and heavenly tones upon their jaws harps for the farmers is pretty funny.
;)
Lisa

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Hi Beth,Thanks for the kind words of support - it means a lot
to hear it from a teacher in the trenches.Will you encourage your children to record their songs?best,
Karen Ellis>-----------------------------
>
>Date:    Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:22:39 -0400
>From:    Educational CyberPlayGround <[unmask]>
>Subject: UF STUDY: CHILDREN's KNOWLEDGE GAP OF FOLK  SONGS THREATENS HERITAGE
>
>Please take your time to read this all the way through.
>
>
>CRISIS:
>
>Study proves that children
>do not know their folksongs and that
>teachers do not teach them.
>
>Is there any registered non-profit organization or
>qualified government entity / public arts agency
>on this list or for profit company that would be willing work with my
>company and John Broomall Executive Director
>Pennsylvania Alliance For Arts Education to
>protect Children's Music & the Oral Tradition?
>
>Find out what you can do to help prevent this
>precious resource from slipping away and being lost to us forever.
>
>UF STUDY: CHILDREN'S KNOWLEDGE GAP
>OF FOLK SONGS THREATENS HERITAGE
>http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/NCFR/opportunity.html
>
>States are Ranked
>
>Children in the United States aren't singing the songs of their heritage, an
>omission that puts the nation in jeopardy of losing a long standing and rich
>part of its identity.
>http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/NCFR/NCFR2.html
>
>You Can Keep their Traditions Alive by asking children
>to record themselves into  the
>
>NATIONAL CHILDRE'NS FOLKSONG REPOSITORY
>http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/NCFR/NCFR.html
>
>This would be an excellent activity  to promote at
>http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/NCFR/participant.html
>
>Watch the Video
>http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/NCFR/ecprm.html
>
>Please contact me personally - off list
>if you have any questions and  would like to
>find out more.
>
>
>thanks,
>
>Karen Ellis
>
>Educational CyberPlayGround
>Guavaberry Books
>National Children's Folksong Repository
>
><>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>
>The Educational CyberPlayGround
>http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/
>
>National Children's Folksong Repository
>http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/NCFR/
>
>Hot List of Schools Online and
>Net Happenings, K12 Newsletters, Network Newsletters
>http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/Community/
>
>7 Hot Site Awards
>New York Times, USA Today , MSNBC, Earthlink,
>USA Today Best Bets For Educators, Macworld Top Fifty
><>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>
>
>
>Date:    Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:49:08 -0500
>From:    Beth Brooks <[unmask]>
>Subject: Re: UF STUDY
>
><<But if they're taught in the schools, are they folk songs? Serious
>question. I suspect that there is no better way to *ruin* folk
>songs than to "teach" them.>>
>
>I've been teaching a Kodaly-based folksong-rich curriculum in the public
>schools for 15 years, and I always try to play as many
>variants/recordings of each of the songs that I can fine. I also try to
>teach the kids that "even though this is the way I learned the tune,
>there are many other ways to sing it".
>
>I find that because my students generally aren't sung to by their
>parents, they don't even know "Home on the Range", except that it's
>connected with a recent Disney movie. And even though it may "ruin" the
>folk tradition, at least they're hearing a live version of a tune that's
>been passed on. Of course the many guest folk artists I've had come play
>for the kids over the years helps this immensely, but some day the kids
>may be so interested in the tradition that they actually unplug their
>guitars and learn new old tunes for themselves.
>
>Beth Brooks
>"in the trenches"<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>
The Educational CyberPlayGround
http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/National Children's Folksong Repository
http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/NCFR/Hot List of Schools Online and
Net Happenings, K12 Newsletters, Network Newsletters
http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/Community/7 Hot Site Awards
New York Times, USA Today , MSNBC, Earthlink,
USA Today Best Bets For Educators, Macworld Top Fifty
<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>  

Thanks Liz, Heather and Beth for your testimonials.This is why it's so important to have children find out about
the National Children's Folksong Repository.best,
Karen Ellis<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>
The Educational CyberPlayGround
http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/National Children's Folksong Repository
http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/NCFR/Hot List of Schools Online and
Net Happenings, K12 Newsletters, Network Newsletters
http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/Community/7 Hot Site Awards
New York Times, USA Today , MSNBC, Earthlink,
USA Today Best Bets For Educators, Macworld Top Fifty
<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>  

Good idea for next year. I always try to find the ones I don't teach
them, mostly hand claps and chants, but recording them is the right
place to start.Beth >>> [unmask] 04/12/05 7:27 PM >>>
Hi Beth,Thanks for the kind words of support - it means a lot
to hear it from a teacher in the trenches.Will you encourage your children to record their songs?best,
Karen Ellis>-----------------------------
>
>Date:    Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:22:39 -0400
>From:    Educational CyberPlayGround <[unmask]>
>Subject: UF STUDY: CHILDREN's KNOWLEDGE GAP OF FOLK  SONGS THREATENS
HERITAGE
>
>Please take your time to read this all the way through.
>
>
>CRISIS:
>
>Study proves that children
>do not know their folksongs and that
>teachers do not teach them.
>
>Is there any registered non-profit organization or
>qualified government entity / public arts agency
>on this list or for profit company that would be willing work with my
>company and John Broomall Executive Director
>Pennsylvania Alliance For Arts Education to
>protect Children's Music & the Oral Tradition?
>
>Find out what you can do to help prevent this
>precious resource from slipping away and being lost to us forever.
>
>UF STUDY: CHILDREN'S KNOWLEDGE GAP
>OF FOLK SONGS THREATENS HERITAGE
>http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/NCFR/opportunity.html
>
>States are Ranked
>
>Children in the United States aren't singing the songs of their
heritage, an
>omission that puts the nation in jeopardy of losing a long standing and
rich
>part of its identity.
>http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/NCFR/NCFR2.html
>
>You Can Keep their Traditions Alive by asking children
>to record themselves into  the
>
>NATIONAL CHILDRE'NS FOLKSONG REPOSITORY
>http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/NCFR/NCFR.html
>
>This would be an excellent activity  to promote at
>http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/NCFR/participant.html
>
>Watch the Video
>http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/NCFR/ecprm.html
>
>Please contact me personally - off list
>if you have any questions and  would like to
>find out more.
>
>
>thanks,
>
>Karen Ellis
>
>Educational CyberPlayGround
>Guavaberry Books
>National Children's Folksong Repository
>
><>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>
>The Educational CyberPlayGround
>http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/
>
>National Children's Folksong Repository
>http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/NCFR/
>
>Hot List of Schools Online and
>Net Happenings, K12 Newsletters, Network Newsletters
>http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/Community/
>
>7 Hot Site Awards
>New York Times, USA Today , MSNBC, Earthlink,
>USA Today Best Bets For Educators, Macworld Top Fifty
><>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>
>
>
>Date:    Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:49:08 -0500
>From:    Beth Brooks <[unmask]>
>Subject: Re: UF STUDY
>
><<But if they're taught in the schools, are they folk songs? Serious
>question. I suspect that there is no better way to *ruin* folk
>songs than to "teach" them.>>
>
>I've been teaching a Kodaly-based folksong-rich curriculum in the
public
>schools for 15 years, and I always try to play as many
>variants/recordings of each of the songs that I can fine. I also try to
>teach the kids that "even though this is the way I learned the tune,
>there are many other ways to sing it".
>
>I find that because my students generally aren't sung to by their
>parents, they don't even know "Home on the Range", except that it's
>connected with a recent Disney movie. And even though it may "ruin" the
>folk tradition, at least they're hearing a live version of a tune
that's
>been passed on. Of course the many guest folk artists I've had come
play
>for the kids over the years helps this immensely, but some day the kids
>may be so interested in the tradition that they actually unplug their
>guitars and learn new old tunes for themselves.
>
>Beth Brooks
>"in the trenches"<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>
The Educational CyberPlayGround
http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/National Children's Folksong Repository
http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/NCFR/Hot List of Schools Online and
Net Happenings, K12 Newsletters, Network Newsletters
http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/Community/7 Hot Site Awards
New York Times, USA Today , MSNBC, Earthlink,
USA Today Best Bets For Educators, Macworld Top Fifty
<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>  

Hi Johnathan,I happen to have that amazing book downstairs !Karen>Date:    Tue, 12 Apr 2005 17:06:25 -0700
>From:    Jonathan Lighter <[unmask]>
>Subject: Re: UF STUDY
>
>Our NYC elementary school used "The Fireside Book of Folksongs" in the mid 
>to late '50s.  I loved it. Of course, look at me now....
>
>JL<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>
The Educational CyberPlayGround
http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/National Children's Folksong Repository
http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/NCFR/Hot List of Schools Online and
Net Happenings, K12 Newsletters, Network Newsletters
http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/Community/7 Hot Site Awards
New York Times, USA Today , MSNBC, Earthlink,
USA Today Best Bets For Educators, Macworld Top Fifty
<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>  

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

At 09:29 PM 4/12/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>...As for the mysterious instrument, it really depends on where the author 
>was located when he wrote about the instrument.  If in America, it would 
>almost certainly be a lap dulcimer.  If in Egypt, I would imagine some 
>type of santur.
>
>Mark GThe quote says:
>(Describing a noon meal on a farm where he worked as a stone layer, in 
>about 1820, in Herkimer County, New York, home of the Frankfort Furnace 
>Company,
And I concur with it most definitely referring to the mountain (or lap) 
dulcimer.  In the Appalachian region (which can include central NY state) 
many 1800's rural households had a lap dulcimer, with it being 
traditionally played by the women (though not exclusively by any means) and 
used also for ballad and hymn accompaniment.  This was truly "grandmother's 
instrument" as the quote describes it.  Played with a noter and quill, with 
its very distinctive and delicate sweet silvery zinging sound that "almost" 
disappeared altogether with the arrival of modern times.
Lisa Johnson
playing mountain dulcimer and singing ballads in 2005 in Columbia County, 
New York. 

    A mouth bow seems to fill the bill for the buzz sound that John alludes to, but a diddley bow may serve as well.  I was inclined to think of the jews harp, but am not sure of the age of this instrument plus it is still fairly common.   The mouth bow is an african instrument, that was borrowed by the white man who in turn gave credit to the Indians for this instrument. SRich    [unmask] > 
> From: "Lisa - S. H." <[unmask]>
> Date: 2005/04/12 Tue PM 05:52:46 EDT
> To: [unmask]
> Subject: Re: Mysterious instrument
> 
> At 04:08 PM 4/12/2005 -0400, you wrote:
> > From G. W. Henry, Travels in Egypt, 1853, pp 51-52:
> >
> >(Describing a noon meal on a farm where he worked as a stone layer, in 
> >about 1820, in Herkimer County, New York, home of the Frankfort Furnace 
> >Company,
> >http://www.rootsweb.com/~nyherkim/frankfort/earlyfrank.html  At the time, 
> >Henry was about 19 years old.)
> >
> >When the dinner was over, instead of being hurried away into the old 
> >coal-house, we retired into an adjoining room, or, perhaps, to a 
> >well-swept barn floor, there to enjoy our "noon spell" in listening to the 
> >music of an old-fashioned instrument played by the fair hand of the 
> >farmer's daughter; and many times the neighboring girls would bring in 
> >their musical instruments and join in the sweet concert, while mellifluent 
> >voices, bass and treble, filled the rich measure of the choir.  How sad 
> >that such music is no longer heard - that that old instrument, the delight 
> >of our grandmothers, is now almost obsolete, and its very name is numbered 
> >among the things that were; an instrument that, while it delighted the ear 
> >of the farmer with its merry buzz, imparted a glow of freshness and 
> >healthful beauty to the cheek of his blithesome daughter.  If any of my 
> >younger readers are at a loss to know what musical instrument I refer to, 
> >they can inquire of their grandmother, and she will give them a full 
> >account of it.
> >****
> >What instrument is this?  I have my idea, but I don't want to set it down 
> >here because I'd like to get unbiased opinions of others.  I should say, 
> >however, that it is clearly not the fiddle, which Henry mentions frequently.
> >
> >John
> 
> 
> It is, quite obviously and with no doubt at all, the beautiful mountain 
> dulcimer.
> (Which I play here today in upstate New York)
> Lisa Johnson
> 

On 2005/04/12 at 04:58:37PM -0400, bingham wrote:
> X-Mailer: Quality Web Email v3.1b, http://netwinsite.com/refw.htm
> Date:         Tue, 12 Apr 2005 16:58:37 -0400
> From:         bingham <[unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Mysterious instrument
> To:           [unmask]
> 
> I think it can, because of the buildup of overtones. A lot
> of anecdotal writers from this era just plain didn't
> describe what they heard very accurately. I think
> "resonance" could translate into "buzz" in a case like this.
> For that matter, it could be a hurdy-gurdy, with "drone"
> translating into "buzz". As I say, I'm only speculating.
> Tom	And hurdy-gurdys also commonly have a "trumpet" -- which is a
special bridge, pivoted at one end, and with a hardened "foot" to hit an
inlay in the soundboard.  With the wheel cranked in one direction, it
acts like any other bridge.  However, when the wheel is cranked the
other direction, it adds a very distinct "buzz" to the sound mix.	But I find myself wondering whether this could have been a
zither instead.  Too early to be an autoharp, but I think that the
zither is old enough so it would be a possibility.	Or -- could it be a small lap harp?	Enjoy,
		DoN.-- 
 Email:   <[unmask]>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
	(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
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>But if they're taught in the schools, are they folk songs? Serious
>question. I suspect that there is no better way to *ruin* folk
>songs than to "teach" them.
>
>Note that "teaching" them is not the same as making them
>accessible.I learned "Sweet Betsy from Pike" at school in the fifth grade (age ten).
I encountered a more entertaining (adult) version in my twenties.Now in my fifties, I can only remember the version I learned when I was ten.Oh well.
Back to calculating taxes.EdieEdie Gale Hays
[unmask]

perhaps a zither?> From G. W. Henry, Travels in Egypt, 1853, pp 51-52:
>
>(Describing a noon meal on a farm where he worked as a stone layer,
>in about 1820, in Herkimer County, New York, home of the Frankfort
>Furnace Company,
>http://www.rootsweb.com/~nyherkim/frankfort/earlyfrank.html  At the
>time, Henry was about 19 years old.)
>
>When the dinner was over, instead of being hurried away into the old
>coal-house, we retired into an adjoining room, or, perhaps, to a
>well-swept barn floor, there to enjoy our "noon spell" in listening
>to the music of an old-fashioned instrument played by the fair hand
>of the farmer's daughter; and many times the neighboring girls would
>bring in their musical instruments and join in the sweet concert,
>while mellifluent voices, bass and treble, filled the rich measure of
>the choir.  How sad that such music is no longer heard - that that
>old instrument, the delight of our grandmothers, is now almost
>obsolete, and its very name is numbered among the things that were;
>an instrument that, while it delighted the ear of the farmer with its
>merry buzz, imparted a glow of freshness and healthful beauty to the
>cheek of his blithesome daughter.  If any of my younger readers are
>at a loss to know what musical instrument I refer to, they can
>inquire of their grandmother, and she will give them a full account
>of it.
>
>****
>
>What instrument is this?  I have my idea, but I don't want to set it
>down here because I'd like to get unbiased opinions of others.  I
>should say, however, that it is clearly not the fiddle, which Henry
>mentions frequently.
>
>John
>--
>john garst    [unmask]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David G. Engle" <[unmask]><<The hammered dulcimer can give off a buzz, and can be used to
accompany singing, but I think the mountain dulcimer is a much better
guess.>>But is there evidence of the presence of mountain dulcimers in upstate New
York? My information is that the instrument was pretty much confined to the
southeast and border states. An I wrong?<<I have yet to hear a jaw harp characterized as "mellifluent voices", >>Well, it's considered a trance instrument in Siberia, while in southern
Italy it's considered seductive; parents used to warn girls about those
treacherous boys who carried jaw-harps in their pockets. (Really.) Its
Italian name is scacciapensiere, or 'drive away thought', which hints at
trance-inducing possibilities too.Peace,
Paul

Can't speak to it's use by women but the instrument itself is not that 
big. There is a gentleman who performs occasionally on Jackson Square 
who plays one and it's not much larger that a guitar.In a "vielle a roue" (wheel fiddle) the bowing action of the fiddle is 
replaced by a wheel cranked by a handle. The wheel, the outer rim is 
coated with resin, makes all the strings resonate at once, whether drone 
or melody strings, and makes a continuous sound. Keys operate sliding 
tangents which were pressed up against the string(s) and then fell back 
into place. The keyboard resembles that of a portative organ and the 
fingering was similar except the key(s) were pressed upward.There is a French performer, Rene Zosso, who recorded frequently with 
the Clemencic Consort playing a hurdy gurdy and, if memory serves, it 
also appears on some recordings by the group Malicorne.John Garst wrote:> Thanks, Paul.
>
> Your suggestion may be plausible, but isn't the hurdy-gurdy a rather 
> large instrument?  Was it ever fashionable as a favored instrument of 
> women, as the Henry passage implies?
>
> John
>
>> Well, "merry buzz" brings a hurdy-gurdy to my mind, and the effort 
>> involved
>> in cranking it could well impart "a glow of freshness and healthful 
>> beauty
>> to the  cheek of his blithesome daughter."
>>
>> Peace,
>> Paul
>
>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Edie Gale Hays" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 10:03 PM
Subject: Re: UF STUDY>But if they're taught in the schools, are they folk songs? Serious
>question. I suspect that there is no better way to *ruin* folk
>songs than to "teach" them.
>
>Note that "teaching" them is not the same as making them
>accessible.<<I learned "Sweet Betsy from Pike" at school in the fifth grade (age ten).
I encountered a more entertaining (adult) version in my twenties.Now in my fifties, I can only remember the version I learned when I was
ten.>>How could you forget "she showed her bare arse to the whole wagon train"?
Said line, in fact, is in the Fireside Book.Peace,
Paul

To get the kids engaging with what they are singing I've found that one
useful way is to teach an old song, write new words with them - sometimes
additional lyrics, sometimes a whole new lyric - then record together what
we have made - nowadays supplying CDs and lyric booklets to the school of
what has been done. As well as the new songs you include some 'old'
favourites that were new to the kids.
Classes write songs based on the themes they are studying.
The same songmaking approach works with groups of elderly people in day
centres, of course. 
Sometimes we get the information from the elders, take it to the kids and
the kids write the songs, then we perfrom the songs for the older folk.
Larry Long does the same kind of thing in the States I believe.
I started the Songmaker in Schools project some 14 years ago, more recently
we have the New Makars Trust which has worked with groups of communities
and songwriters to make many dozens of The New Songs Of Fife, and The New
Songs Of South Lanarkshire - with substantial central government funding.
Not new ideas, but it sure works.Ewan McVicar

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

At 01:00 AM 4/13/2005 -0500, you wrote:>But is there evidence of the presence of mountain dulcimers in upstate New
>York? My information is that the instrument was pretty much confined to the
>southeast and border states. An I wrong?Yes there have been old dulcimers both constructed and collected in the New 
England, PA and NY state areas.  Not as many as in Kentucky, Tennessee, 
Virginia, etc, but existent nonetheless.
Lisa

I preface the following comments by emphasising that they are more
'anecdotal observation' than 'academical research'. 
However.
Over the last few years I've become increasingly aware that more than one
'revival' of 'folksong' [for want of better words] in the UK over the last
100 years has in part been spurred by singing in schools. 
I think through published game song collections I've recognised three
concerted attempts over the period, with debatable effect, to get children
singing singing games in their 'leisure' time. 
Heather Wood and I were involved in the tailend of organised sol fah
singing of folksongs, mostly I think from the publications of Cecil Sharp, 
as an integral part of school education.
I also was taught versions of many Scottish Traditional or National songs.
What differentiated these from  what I heard from 'source' singers was more
the manner of performance [tempi and variation in tempi within songs,
emphasis on narrative as much as melodic sound, accent employed, engagement
with the listener, vigour of performance, etc] than the nature of the songs
themselves. Listening to some of Lomax's 1951 Scottish recordings, a few of
them sound in fact like rendition of versions learned in the schoolroom.
Most are not, of course.
Further, it was the activities with their pupils of Glasgow schoolteachers
Morris Blythman and Norman Buchan that spurred the interest and involvement
of people who are now [irony of ironies!] at times labelled 'source
singers' - Adam MacNaughtan, Gordeanna MacCulloch, Anne Neilson, Andy
Hunter, Nigel Denver. A check with singers might uncover many more whose
interest began at school.Ewan McVicar