On 3/5/05, edward cray wrote:>Folks:
>
>My old professor Wayland Hand would be busy writing all these down.  They are interesting inversions of the widely held belief that putting on or wearing clothes (outwear to underwear) backwards brings BAD luck., or in Utah "invites all evil."How does this reconcile with the modern notion of "rally caps" --
a baseball cap worn backward or inside out, used when one is
behind and really needs to start a "rally"?--
Bob Waltz
[unmask]"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

Forum for ballad scholars <[unmask]> writes:
>Aoife Clancy is a member of the Clancy Brother's family (a
>daughter of one of the brothers?).Bobby.Mary Cliff

What do you mean? sent you to drink....It is because of running out of money for drink that I write!Must be a "Poe" Author.....CBedward cray wrote:
> Ewan:
>
> Take heart!  When my books turn up on ebay or in used book stores, they are listed at a fraction of their cost.  The worst was a 50-cent price for a book I spent four years on.  That sent me to drink too.
>
> Ah, capitalism.
>
> Ed
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ewan McVicar <[unmask]>
> Date: Saturday, March 5, 2005 1:45 am
> Subject: Self Congratulations
>
>
>>Hurray!
>>A book I wrote appears in sainted Dolores Nichols' current Ebay list.
>>I shall have a drink tonight to celebrate.
>>The price of ?4.99 quoted is what it still sells for in the shops.
>>
>>Ewan
>>
>>
>>Ewan McVicar,
>>84 High Street
>>Linlithgow,
>>West Lothian
>>Scotland
>>EH49 7AQ
>>
>>tel 01506 847935
>>
>
>--
@#@#@#@##@#@#@#@#@##@#@#@#@#@#@@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@
Looking through my bedroom window, out into the moonlight and the
uneding smoke-colored snow,
I could see the lights in the windows of all the other houses on our
hill and hear the music rising from them
up the long, steadily falling night. I turned the gas down, I got into
bed. I said some words to the
close and holy darkness, and then I slept!-Dylan Thomas
####################################################################

On 2005/03/05 at 12:47:34PM -0500, [unmask] wrote:> I checked with my 12 yr old niece (who lives in NH). She had
> indeed heard of the inside out PJs, and she had a further
> ritual. You say "no school" backwards five times and then go
> straight to bed. Preferably with those inside out jammies on.
> That's "loohcs on" for those of you wiling to try it.
> Kathleen        Thank you.  That gives us Washington DC area and New Hampshire.
(And wasn't there another sighting mentioned?)  It seems that it is an
Eastern seaboard phenomeon, so far (unless that other sighting put it
elsewhere).        Thanks,
                DoN.--
 Email:   <[unmask]>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
        (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
           --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

I've been sick all week, so maybe this came up and no one
mentioned it, but I thought it better to repeat than leave
it out.Joe Carter, the son of A. P. and Sara, died last Wednesday of
cancer at the age of 78. He was present at the Bristol Sessions --
thought to be the last living person to have been associated with
the events. He recorded with his father A. P. and sister Janette
on the Acme label from 1952-1956, and later sang bass with Sara
and Maybelle.I don't have much else in the way of detail.--
Bob Waltz
[unmask]"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

Greetings!
Just what you have been looking for! More Prince of Sinisters Trivia....So far the earliest dated version of the song comes from a play
performed in 1822 and published in 1837 called "The Meltonians" Where it
appears in Act Two, Scene I. By R. B. Peake....Of course that is as far
as I know....A bit about this song-now for the trivia-The new police may reference bow street runners which went through
several improvements from 1749 (Under Fielding)  into late 1700s with
the bigest change coming with Peel and formation of The Metropolis
Police in 1829. Hard to tell what the New Police were but the force was
based at Scotland yard from 1829. And Scotland yard is mentioned in the
song.....-Voxhall bridge was constructed from 1813-19 and it is mentioned.
(of course Anne Vox of Voxhall and Voxhall figured in the plot of 1605)-Portable gas light is mentioned- first gas cylinders were introduced in
1819.-It is likely that other references were added after the appearance of
the song in the meltonians.Queen Victoria's sons were born in- 1841, 1850, and 1853. These are all
a bit later than this version.Townsend or Townshend was a famous Bow Street Runner. He is not
mentioned in this version but in others. Townshend was active and famous
by  1828.The last line of the Meltonian version is interesting. The use of the
concept of members of parliament blowing each other up via personal
attack and rhetoric is one used by Cruikshank when describing his
cartoon of the Unexhibited Cartoon of Guy Fawkes. A very similar usage-".  Unfortunately, some had long noses and some had short; so, putting
this and that together, the long and the short of it is, that I
determined on adopting a living prototype, who has been blowing up both
Houses of Parliament for several years, and if not a Fawkes in other
respects, is at least famous for encouraging forking out the part of
others."-from: The Comic Almanac, 1844Of course the tune has a long history....bow wow wow....So there....some trivia....now a question!Who is Cruikshank referring to as the person who is his prototype who
has been blowing up both Houses of Parliament for several
years....forking out the part of others."So the search goes on! But the trivia had piled up high enough to shift
it over to you! Have fun....CB--
@#@#@#@##@#@#@#@#@##@#@#@#@#@#@@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@
Looking through my bedroom window, out into the moonlight and the
uneding smoke-colored snow,
I could see the lights in the windows of all the other houses on our
hill and hear the music rising from them
up the long, steadily falling night. I turned the gas down, I got into
bed. I said some words to the
close and holy darkness, and then I slept!-Dylan Thomas
####################################################################

HelloI found two recordings in the Florida Folklife from the WPA Collections.
The first is Zora Neale Hurston and the second is James Brown & Rufs Bland.        http://tinyurl.com/5umrn        http://tinyurl.com/6jzwwSurely a song so widespread should have survived somewhere.  Someone must
still sing this song.   I will try placing up a few texts on my site and on
mudcat to encourage people to come out of the woodworks.I remember reading about "Uncle Bud" in the unpublished part of Roger
Abrahams' discertation and in a 1928 Texas folklore journal.   References
later.Thanks for you help.Yours,John Mehlberg----- Original Message -----
From: "John Garst" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 1:17 PM
Subject: [Spam][68.1%] Re: "Uncle Bud" song> >----- Original Message -----
>>From: "John Mehlberg" <[unmask]>
>>
>><<Does anyone remember reading any info on the bawdy song
>>"Uncle Bud"?    This song used to be widespread in the southern
>>US...>>
>>
>>A cleanish version was recorded by Gid Tanner & his Skillet Lickers in
>>1928.
>>For other information, see the entry in the Traditional Ballad Index.
>>
>>Peace,
>>Paul
>
> Zora Neale Hurston, Mules and Men?, something on-line at LOC's American
> Memory?
>
> John
>
>
> --
> john garst    [unmask]

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Folks:While surfing for possible purchases on Abebooks.com, I found the following.  For those who don't have it, this would be an important addition to their ballad library, and at a very fair price:BIBLIOTHECA CURIOSA. A BALLAD BOOK; OR, POPULAR AND ROMANTIC BALLADS AND SONGS CURRENT IN ANNANDALE AND OTHER PARTS OF SCOTLAND: PART 1. Reprinted from the Rare Original Editions of 18240 1.Edited by Edmund Goldsmid.
Sharpe, Charles Kirkpatrick (compiler).
Price: US$ 21.74 [Convert Currency]
Shipping: [Rates and Speeds]Book Description: Edinburgh: privately printed, 1891. Paperback. Part 1 only. Reprint, 16mo, tan wraps, 50 pages. Wraps lightly soiled & foxed, small chips to spine, otherwise binding Good, text Very Good. Bookseller Inventory #187033Bookseller: The Bookshop, Inc. (Chapel Hill, NC, U.S.A.)Ed

John:A clarification, if you will:Is that  Zora Neale Hurston singing "Uncle Bud," or is she merely the collector?And if it is her voice, are there other recordings by her?  Given interest in that prominent figure of the Harlem Renaissance, a CD with her singing and  storytelling (?) might be a worthy addition to a library.Ed----- Original Message -----
From: John Mehlberg <[unmask]>
Date: Saturday, March 5, 2005 5:14 pm
Subject: Re: "Uncle Bud" song> Hello
>
> I found two recordings in the Florida Folklife from the WPA
> Collections.The first is Zora Neale Hurston and the second is James
> Brown & Rufs Bland.
>
>        http://tinyurl.com/5umrn
>
>        http://tinyurl.com/6jzww
>
> Surely a song so widespread should have survived somewhere.
> Someone must
> still sing this song.   I will try placing up a few texts on my
> site and on
> mudcat to encourage people to come out of the woodworks.
>
> I remember reading about "Uncle Bud" in the unpublished part of Roger
> Abrahams' discertation and in a 1928 Texas folklore journal.
> Referenceslater.
>
> Thanks for you help.
>
> Yours,
>
> John Mehlberg
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Garst" <[unmask]>
> To: <[unmask]>
> Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 1:17 PM
> Subject: [Spam][68.1%] Re: "Uncle Bud" song
>
>
> > >----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "John Mehlberg" <[unmask]>
> >>
> >><<Does anyone remember reading any info on the bawdy song
> >>"Uncle Bud"?    This song used to be widespread in the southern
> >>US...>>
> >>
> >>A cleanish version was recorded by Gid Tanner & his Skillet
> Lickers in
> >>1928.
> >>For other information, see the entry in the Traditional Ballad
> Index.>>
> >>Peace,
> >>Paul
> >
> > Zora Neale Hurston, Mules and Men?, something on-line at LOC's
> American> Memory?
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> > --
> > john garst    [unmask]
>

Thanks to everyone who sent help regarding the Vera Johnson song. Time
to oil my (Canadian) French!Andy

Some time back there were some e-mails concerning the House of the
Rising Sun. Some of you may be interested in this article which ran in
today's Times-Picauyne. My favorite used CD shop was next door to the
Conti dig, who would have thunk it!A French Quarter excavation yields some tantalizing history
Sunday, March 06, 2005
By Bruce Eggler
Staff writerDig a hole almost anywhere in the French Quarter and you're likely to
discover at least a shard or two of history. Put a trained archaeologist
in charge of the digging, and you'll likely do better than that.
Archaeologist Shannon Dawdy, who recently dug several holes in the 500
block of Conti Street, thinks she has uncovered evidence at the site
that could help answer at least two intriguing historical questions:-- What and where, if anywhere, was the New Orleans institution made
famous in the song "The House of the Rising Sun"?
-- Was there an earlier American Indian settlement on the site of what
became the French colonial town of New Orleans?
The Historic New Orleans Collection decided to commission the
archaeological dig after it acquired the property at 535-37 Conti St.
The site, a one-story parking garage for most of the 20th century, will
be used for a new archives building for the historical museum and
research center.
The collection has had similar digs done at several other sites it owns
in the Quarter.
It picked Dawdy, an assistant professor in the anthropology department
at the University of Chicago and visiting scholar at the University of
New Orleans' College of Urban and Public Affairs, to oversee the Conti
Street excavation.
Because time was short, the local archaeological firm Earth Search also
was hired to get as much digging done as possible before contractors
moved in late last month to start demolishing the garage.
Because the floor of the garage was covered with concrete, the first
step was to jackhammer about a dozen test holes through it and then dig
down 3 or 4 feet to see what turned up. Dawdy and her colleagues then
picked seven sites for full-scale excavations, each about 3 feet square
and 4 feet deep.
It was known that the Conti Street site had been occupied by two
successive hotels in the 19th century. The second one opened in 1828 and
was known over the years as the Richardson, the Conti and the Conti
Verandah. It burned to the ground in 1887.
But despite the second hotel's long occupancy of the site, few artifacts
from it were found, perhaps because the area being excavated was used as
a carriageway or because the site was well-cleaned after the fire.
More items were found from the lower excavation levels associated with
the earlier hotel, which operated from about 1808 to 1822, when it
burned. That establishment was known as the Rising Sun Hotel, and the
results are "looking impressively like a bordello," Dawdy said, citing
the suggestive combination of broken pieces from "tons of liquor
bottles" and several rouge pots.
Dawdy said local historians generally have claimed that the earliest
formal bordellos in New Orleans did not open until the Civil War, a view
that let them push the blame for the development on occupying Union
troops. It was assumed the Rising Sun Hotel had been a regular hostelry.
But in view of what the excavation uncovered, Dawdy finds a January 1821
ad for the hotel in the Louisiana Gazette of considerable interest. The
ad says the hotel's new owners will "maintain the character of giving
the best entertainment, which this house has enjoyed for twenty years
past." It goes on: "Gentlemen may here rely upon finding attentive
Servants. The bar will be supplied with genuine good Liquors; and at the
Table, the fare will be of the best the market or the season will afford."
Although the ad does not prove that anything illicit was happening at
the Rising Sun, it suggests it was a place where men went for a good time.
Whether the hotel also lent its name to the song is another matter.
"The House of the Rising Sun," an old folk song best known through Eric
Burdon and The Animals' hit 1964 version, was first written on paper in
the 1930s by pioneering folk song collector Alan Lomax. He said he
learned it from a "yellow-headed miner's daughter" in Kentucky.
The melody may go back to 17th century England. Who penned the lyrics is
unknown, as well as what inspired them and whether the "house" in
question was a brothel, gambling hall, prison or something else.
The Lomax version put the words in the mouth of a woman: "There is a
house in New Orleans they call the Rising Sun. It's been the ruin of
many a poor girl, and me, O God, for one." The Animals' version changed
"girl" to "boy."
Buggy drivers, public relations officials and others, operating on
skimpy evidence at best, have identified at least two other French
Quarter addresses, 616 Ursulines St. and 826-30 St. Louis St., as the
site of a brothel known as the Rising Sun.
Local researcher Pamela Arceneaux, who has spent years investigating the
history of prostitution in New Orleans, said she has never found a
reference to a bordello known as the House of the Rising Sun. Whether
Dawdy's findings will provide such evidence remains to be seen.
Below the materials from the two hotels, the diggers found items from
the early 18th century, when the excavation site apparently was for many
years a garden behind a house on Chartres Street. There are pieces of
French faience and Natchez Indian pottery, and Dawdy plans further
analysis to try to learn whether the seeds and pollen recovered were
from native or imported French plants.
Below the garden were several inches of "sterile soil," containing no
artifacts, presumably from years before the founding of New Orleans in
1718. But the excavators dug a little deeper and unexpectedly found
pieces of prehistoric Indian pottery, "very plain everyday ware," dating
from between 1200 and 1700, in two of the seven excavation spots.
Although the presence of pottery does not prove there was a long-term
Indian settlement on the site, Dawdy said she thinks it is good evidence
of "sustained occupation." Historians have known there was an Indian
village near Bayou St. John, but she said there has been no evidence
until now that Indians had lived on the same spot thatBienville chose to
establish a European town.
If enough organic material is recovered with the pottery, Dawdy said,
she can use carbon-14 testing to date the Indians' presence at the site
more accurately.
Dawdy, who is writing a book on French colonial New Orleans and formerly
was director of UNO's New Orleans archaeology program, has been working
in the city on and off since 1994. She will spend at least a year
analyzing the finds from the Conti Street site, she said.
Although it would have been nice to have enough time and workers to dig
up the entire floor of the old garage, not just a few small sections of
it, Dawdy said she is "very satisfied with the sampling," especially
with the 18th century and earlier finds.
After she has had time to study the material, she said, she probably
will write a report for the Historic New Orleans Collection, give a
public talk and publish one or more scholarly articles.

Ed,Yes, that recording is Zora Neale Hurston singing "Uncle Bud".
That song and a few others sung by her can be found at the Florida
Folklife from the WPA Collections at the Library of Congress
American Memories online collection.I have lost the original google search but was able to find this
description of the recording "...sung and spoken by Hurston.
Recorded in Jacksonville, Florida, June 18, 1939."   See here:
http://tinyurl.com/4adb5Yours,John Mehlberg----- Original Message -----
From: "edward cray" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2005 5:35 AM
Subject: Re: "Uncle Bud" songJohn:A clarification, if you will:Is that  Zora Neale Hurston singing "Uncle Bud," or is she merely
the collector?And if it is her voice, are there other recordings by her?  Given
interest in that prominent figure of the Harlem Renaissance, a CD
with her singing and  storytelling (?) might be a worthy addition to
a library.Ed----- Original Message -----
From: John Mehlberg <[unmask]>
Date: Saturday, March 5, 2005 5:14 pm
Subject: Re: "Uncle Bud" song> Hello
>
> I found two recordings in the Florida Folklife from the WPA
> Collections.The first is Zora Neale Hurston and the second is
> James
> Brown & Rufs Bland.
>
>        http://tinyurl.com/5umrn
>
>        http://tinyurl.com/6jzww
>
> Surely a song so widespread should have survived somewhere.
> Someone must
> still sing this song.   I will try placing up a few texts on my
> site and on
> mudcat to encourage people to come out of the woodworks.
>
> I remember reading about "Uncle Bud" in the unpublished part of
> Roger
> Abrahams' discertation and in a 1928 Texas folklore journal.
> Referenceslater.
>
> Thanks for you help.
>
> Yours,
>
> John Mehlberg
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Garst" <[unmask]>
> To: <[unmask]>
> Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 1:17 PM
> Subject: [Spam][68.1%] Re: "Uncle Bud" song
>
>
> > >----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "John Mehlberg" <[unmask]>
> >>
> >><<Does anyone remember reading any info on the bawdy song
> >>"Uncle Bud"?    This song used to be widespread in the southern
> >>US...>>
> >>
> >>A cleanish version was recorded by Gid Tanner & his Skillet
> Lickers in
> >>1928.
> >>For other information, see the entry in the Traditional Ballad
> Index.>>
> >>Peace,
> >>Paul
> >
> > Zora Neale Hurston, Mules and Men?, something on-line at LOC's
> American> Memory?
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> > --
> > john garst    [unmask]
>

We should soon have the book on this by Ted Anthony, and I expect it
to be authoritative.John>Some time back there were some e-mails concerning the House of the
>Rising Sun. Some of you may be interested in this article which ran in
>today's Times-Picauyne. My favorite used CD shop was next door to the
>Conti dig, who would have thunk it!
>
>
>A French Quarter excavation yields some tantalizing history
>Sunday, March 06, 2005
>By Bruce Eggler
>Staff writer
>
>
>Dig a hole almost anywhere in the French Quarter and you're likely to
>discover at least a shard or two of history. Put a trained archaeologist
>in charge of the digging, and you'll likely do better than that.
>Archaeologist Shannon Dawdy, who recently dug several holes in the 500
>block of Conti Street, thinks she has uncovered evidence at the site
>that could help answer at least two intriguing historical questions:
>
>-- What and where, if anywhere, was the New Orleans institution made
>famous in the song "The House of the Rising Sun"?
>-- Was there an earlier American Indian settlement on the site of what
>became the French colonial town of New Orleans?
>The Historic New Orleans Collection decided to commission the
>archaeological dig after it acquired the property at 535-37 Conti St.
>The site, a one-story parking garage for most of the 20th century, will
>be used for a new archives building for the historical museum and
>research center.
>The collection has had similar digs done at several other sites it owns
>in the Quarter.
>It picked Dawdy, an assistant professor in the anthropology department
>at the University of Chicago and visiting scholar at the University of
>New Orleans' College of Urban and Public Affairs, to oversee the Conti
>Street excavation.
>Because time was short, the local archaeological firm Earth Search also
>was hired to get as much digging done as possible before contractors
>moved in late last month to start demolishing the garage.
>Because the floor of the garage was covered with concrete, the first
>step was to jackhammer about a dozen test holes through it and then dig
>down 3 or 4 feet to see what turned up. Dawdy and her colleagues then
>picked seven sites for full-scale excavations, each about 3 feet square
>and 4 feet deep.
>It was known that the Conti Street site had been occupied by two
>successive hotels in the 19th century. The second one opened in 1828 and
>was known over the years as the Richardson, the Conti and the Conti
>Verandah. It burned to the ground in 1887.
>But despite the second hotel's long occupancy of the site, few artifacts
>from it were found, perhaps because the area being excavated was used as
>a carriageway or because the site was well-cleaned after the fire.
>More items were found from the lower excavation levels associated with
>the earlier hotel, which operated from about 1808 to 1822, when it
>burned. That establishment was known as the Rising Sun Hotel, and the
>results are "looking impressively like a bordello," Dawdy said, citing
>the suggestive combination of broken pieces from "tons of liquor
>bottles" and several rouge pots.
>Dawdy said local historians generally have claimed that the earliest
>formal bordellos in New Orleans did not open until the Civil War, a view
>that let them push the blame for the development on occupying Union
>troops. It was assumed the Rising Sun Hotel had been a regular hostelry.
>But in view of what the excavation uncovered, Dawdy finds a January 1821
>ad for the hotel in the Louisiana Gazette of considerable interest. The
>ad says the hotel's new owners will "maintain the character of giving
>the best entertainment, which this house has enjoyed for twenty years
>past." It goes on: "Gentlemen may here rely upon finding attentive
>Servants. The bar will be supplied with genuine good Liquors; and at the
>Table, the fare will be of the best the market or the season will afford."
>Although the ad does not prove that anything illicit was happening at
>the Rising Sun, it suggests it was a place where men went for a good time.
>Whether the hotel also lent its name to the song is another matter.
>"The House of the Rising Sun," an old folk song best known through Eric
>Burdon and The Animals' hit 1964 version, was first written on paper in
>the 1930s by pioneering folk song collector Alan Lomax. He said he
>learned it from a "yellow-headed miner's daughter" in Kentucky.
>The melody may go back to 17th century England. Who penned the lyrics is
>unknown, as well as what inspired them and whether the "house" in
>question was a brothel, gambling hall, prison or something else.
>The Lomax version put the words in the mouth of a woman: "There is a
>house in New Orleans they call the Rising Sun. It's been the ruin of
>many a poor girl, and me, O God, for one." The Animals' version changed
>"girl" to "boy."
>Buggy drivers, public relations officials and others, operating on
>skimpy evidence at best, have identified at least two other French
>Quarter addresses, 616 Ursulines St. and 826-30 St. Louis St., as the
>site of a brothel known as the Rising Sun.
>Local researcher Pamela Arceneaux, who has spent years investigating the
>history of prostitution in New Orleans, said she has never found a
>reference to a bordello known as the House of the Rising Sun. Whether
>Dawdy's findings will provide such evidence remains to be seen.
>Below the materials from the two hotels, the diggers found items from
>the early 18th century, when the excavation site apparently was for many
>years a garden behind a house on Chartres Street. There are pieces of
>French faience and Natchez Indian pottery, and Dawdy plans further
>analysis to try to learn whether the seeds and pollen recovered were
>from native or imported French plants.
>Below the garden were several inches of "sterile soil," containing no
>artifacts, presumably from years before the founding of New Orleans in
>1718. But the excavators dug a little deeper and unexpectedly found
>pieces of prehistoric Indian pottery, "very plain everyday ware," dating
>from between 1200 and 1700, in two of the seven excavation spots.
>Although the presence of pottery does not prove there was a long-term
>Indian settlement on the site, Dawdy said she thinks it is good evidence
>of "sustained occupation." Historians have known there was an Indian
>village near Bayou St. John, but she said there has been no evidence
>until now that Indians had lived on the same spot thatBienville chose to
>establish a European town.
>If enough organic material is recovered with the pottery, Dawdy said,
>she can use carbon-14 testing to date the Indians' presence at the site
>more accurately.
>Dawdy, who is writing a book on French colonial New Orleans and formerly
>was director of UNO's New Orleans archaeology program, has been working
>in the city on and off since 1994. She will spend at least a year
>analyzing the finds from the Conti Street site, she said.
>Although it would have been nice to have enough time and workers to dig
>up the entire floor of the old garage, not just a few small sections of
>it, Dawdy said she is "very satisfied with the sampling," especially
>with the 18th century and earlier finds.
>After she has had time to study the material, she said, she probably
>will write a report for the Historic New Orleans Collection, give a
>public talk and publish one or more scholarly articles.--
john garst    [unmask]

Folks:All that WPA material is in the public domain.  (And, so far as I know, she had no heirs.)For those with the software,  it would be simple to download and burn a CD of  Ms. Hurston's songs.I might try it myself.Ed----- Original Message -----
From: John Mehlberg <[unmask]>
Date: Sunday, March 6, 2005 8:54 am
Subject: Re: "Uncle Bud" song> Ed,
>
> Yes, that recording is Zora Neale Hurston singing "Uncle Bud".
> That song and a few others sung by her can be found at the Florida
> Folklife from the WPA Collections at the Library of Congress
> American Memories online collection.
>
> I have lost the original google search but was able to find this
> description of the recording "...sung and spoken by Hurston.
> Recorded in Jacksonville, Florida, June 18, 1939."   See here:
> http://tinyurl.com/4adb5
>
> Yours,
>
> John Mehlberg
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "edward cray" <[unmask]>
> To: <[unmask]>
> Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2005 5:35 AM
> Subject: Re: "Uncle Bud" song
>
>
> John:
>
> A clarification, if you will:
>
> Is that  Zora Neale Hurston singing "Uncle Bud," or is she merely
> the collector?
>
> And if it is her voice, are there other recordings by her?  Given
> interest in that prominent figure of the Harlem Renaissance, a CD
> with her singing and  storytelling (?) might be a worthy addition to
> a library.
>
> Ed
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Mehlberg <[unmask]>
> Date: Saturday, March 5, 2005 5:14 pm
> Subject: Re: "Uncle Bud" song
>
> > Hello
> >
> > I found two recordings in the Florida Folklife from the WPA
> > Collections.The first is Zora Neale Hurston and the second is
> > James
> > Brown & Rufs Bland.
> >
> >        http://tinyurl.com/5umrn
> >
> >        http://tinyurl.com/6jzww
> >
> > Surely a song so widespread should have survived somewhere.
> > Someone must
> > still sing this song.   I will try placing up a few texts on my
> > site and on
> > mudcat to encourage people to come out of the woodworks.
> >
> > I remember reading about "Uncle Bud" in the unpublished part of
> > Roger
> > Abrahams' discertation and in a 1928 Texas folklore journal.
> > Referenceslater.
> >
> > Thanks for you help.
> >
> > Yours,
> >
> > John Mehlberg
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Garst" <[unmask]>
> > To: <[unmask]>
> > Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 1:17 PM
> > Subject: [Spam][68.1%] Re: "Uncle Bud" song
> >
> >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > >>From: "John Mehlberg" <[unmask]>
> > >>
> > >><<Does anyone remember reading any info on the bawdy song
> > >>"Uncle Bud"?    This song used to be widespread in the southern
> > >>US...>>
> > >>
> > >>A cleanish version was recorded by Gid Tanner & his Skillet
> > Lickers in
> > >>1928.
> > >>For other information, see the entry in the Traditional Ballad
> > Index.>>
> > >>Peace,
> > >>Paul
> > >
> > > Zora Neale Hurston, Mules and Men?, something on-line at LOC's
> > American> Memory?
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > john garst    [unmask]
> >
>

John:Keep us posted.Ed----- Original Message -----
From: John Garst <[unmask]>
Date: Sunday, March 6, 2005 9:20 am
Subject: Re: House Of The Rising Sun> We should soon have the book on this by Ted Anthony, and I expect it
> to be authoritative.
>
> John
>
> >Some time back there were some e-mails concerning the House of the
> >Rising Sun. Some of you may be interested in this article which
> ran in
> >today's Times-Picauyne. My favorite used CD shop was next door to the
> >Conti dig, who would have thunk it!
> >
> >
> >A French Quarter excavation yields some tantalizing history
> >Sunday, March 06, 2005
> >By Bruce Eggler
> >Staff writer
> >
> >
> >Dig a hole almost anywhere in the French Quarter and you're likely to
> >discover at least a shard or two of history. Put a trained
> archaeologist>in charge of the digging, and you'll likely do better
> than that.
> >Archaeologist Shannon Dawdy, who recently dug several holes in the
> 500>block of Conti Street, thinks she has uncovered evidence at the
> site>that could help answer at least two intriguing historical
> questions:>
> >-- What and where, if anywhere, was the New Orleans institution made
> >famous in the song "The House of the Rising Sun"?
> >-- Was there an earlier American Indian settlement on the site of
> what>became the French colonial town of New Orleans?
> >The Historic New Orleans Collection decided to commission the
> >archaeological dig after it acquired the property at 535-37 Conti St.
> >The site, a one-story parking garage for most of the 20th century,
> will>be used for a new archives building for the historical museum and
> >research center.
> >The collection has had similar digs done at several other sites it
> owns>in the Quarter.
> >It picked Dawdy, an assistant professor in the anthropology
> department>at the University of Chicago and visiting scholar at the
> University of
> >New Orleans' College of Urban and Public Affairs, to oversee the
> Conti>Street excavation.
> >Because time was short, the local archaeological firm Earth Search
> also>was hired to get as much digging done as possible before
> contractors>moved in late last month to start demolishing the garage.
> >Because the floor of the garage was covered with concrete, the first
> >step was to jackhammer about a dozen test holes through it and
> then dig
> >down 3 or 4 feet to see what turned up. Dawdy and her colleagues then
> >picked seven sites for full-scale excavations, each about 3 feet
> square>and 4 feet deep.
> >It was known that the Conti Street site had been occupied by two
> >successive hotels in the 19th century. The second one opened in
> 1828 and
> >was known over the years as the Richardson, the Conti and the Conti
> >Verandah. It burned to the ground in 1887.
> >But despite the second hotel's long occupancy of the site, few
> artifacts>from it were found, perhaps because the area being
> excavated was used as
> >a carriageway or because the site was well-cleaned after the fire.
> >More items were found from the lower excavation levels associated
> with>the earlier hotel, which operated from about 1808 to 1822,
> when it
> >burned. That establishment was known as the Rising Sun Hotel, and the
> >results are "looking impressively like a bordello," Dawdy said,
> citing>the suggestive combination of broken pieces from "tons of
> liquor>bottles" and several rouge pots.
> >Dawdy said local historians generally have claimed that the earliest
> >formal bordellos in New Orleans did not open until the Civil War,
> a view
> >that let them push the blame for the development on occupying Union
> >troops. It was assumed the Rising Sun Hotel had been a regular
> hostelry.>But in view of what the excavation uncovered, Dawdy finds
> a January 1821
> >ad for the hotel in the Louisiana Gazette of considerable
> interest. The
> >ad says the hotel's new owners will "maintain the character of giving
> >the best entertainment, which this house has enjoyed for twenty years
> >past." It goes on: "Gentlemen may here rely upon finding attentive
> >Servants. The bar will be supplied with genuine good Liquors; and
> at the
> >Table, the fare will be of the best the market or the season will
> afford.">Although the ad does not prove that anything illicit was
> happening at
> >the Rising Sun, it suggests it was a place where men went for a
> good time.
> >Whether the hotel also lent its name to the song is another matter.
> >"The House of the Rising Sun," an old folk song best known through
> Eric>Burdon and The Animals' hit 1964 version, was first written on
> paper in
> >the 1930s by pioneering folk song collector Alan Lomax. He said he
> >learned it from a "yellow-headed miner's daughter" in Kentucky.
> >The melody may go back to 17th century England. Who penned the
> lyrics is
> >unknown, as well as what inspired them and whether the "house" in
> >question was a brothel, gambling hall, prison or something else.
> >The Lomax version put the words in the mouth of a woman: "There is a
> >house in New Orleans they call the Rising Sun. It's been the ruin of
> >many a poor girl, and me, O God, for one." The Animals' version
> changed>"girl" to "boy."
> >Buggy drivers, public relations officials and others, operating on
> >skimpy evidence at best, have identified at least two other French
> >Quarter addresses, 616 Ursulines St. and 826-30 St. Louis St., as the
> >site of a brothel known as the Rising Sun.
> >Local researcher Pamela Arceneaux, who has spent years
> investigating the
> >history of prostitution in New Orleans, said she has never found a
> >reference to a bordello known as the House of the Rising Sun. Whether
> >Dawdy's findings will provide such evidence remains to be seen.
> >Below the materials from the two hotels, the diggers found items from
> >the early 18th century, when the excavation site apparently was
> for many
> >years a garden behind a house on Chartres Street. There are pieces of
> >French faience and Natchez Indian pottery, and Dawdy plans further
> >analysis to try to learn whether the seeds and pollen recovered were
> >from native or imported French plants.
> >Below the garden were several inches of "sterile soil," containing no
> >artifacts, presumably from years before the founding of New
> Orleans in
> >1718. But the excavators dug a little deeper and unexpectedly found
> >pieces of prehistoric Indian pottery, "very plain everyday ware,"
> dating>from between 1200 and 1700, in two of the seven excavation
> spots.>Although the presence of pottery does not prove there was a
> long-term
> >Indian settlement on the site, Dawdy said she thinks it is good
> evidence>of "sustained occupation." Historians have known there was
> an Indian
> >village near Bayou St. John, but she said there has been no evidence
> >until now that Indians had lived on the same spot thatBienville
> chose to
> >establish a European town.
> >If enough organic material is recovered with the pottery, Dawdy said,
> >she can use carbon-14 testing to date the Indians' presence at the
> site>more accurately.
> >Dawdy, who is writing a book on French colonial New Orleans and
> formerly>was director of UNO's New Orleans archaeology program, has
> been working
> >in the city on and off since 1994. She will spend at least a year
> >analyzing the finds from the Conti Street site, she said.
> >Although it would have been nice to have enough time and workers
> to dig
> >up the entire floor of the old garage, not just a few small
> sections of
> >it, Dawdy said she is "very satisfied with the sampling," especially
> >with the 18th century and earlier finds.
> >After she has had time to study the material, she said, she probably
> >will write a report for the Historic New Orleans Collection, give a
> >public talk and publish one or more scholarly articles.
>
> --
> john garst    [unmask]
>

I may as well put in my very speculative two cents' worth again:I suspect that the "House of the Rising Sun" was Lulu White's place
in Storyville, at 235 N. Basin Street, known as the "Hall of Mirrors"
and "Mahogany Hall."  The glass transom plate over the front door,
illustrated in Al Rose's "Storyville," p 83, resembles the rays a
rising sun and its rays.  It makes sense to me that a song would
reference one of the most famous bordellos, such as Lulu White's.John>John:
>
>Keep us posted.
>
>Ed
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: John Garst <[unmask]>
>Date: Sunday, March 6, 2005 9:20 am
>Subject: Re: House Of The Rising Sun
>
>>  We should soon have the book on this by Ted Anthony, and I expect it
>>  to be authoritative.
>>
>  > John

>From: Fred McCormick <[unmask]>
>
>Oster's notes to Mean Trouble Blues tell us nothing about the persona of
>uncle Bud, saying merely that bawdy songs about sex lighten frustration. I
>can't
>find any reference to the song in Oster'sm Living Country Blues. However, I
>have a feeling that I've read somewhere that the original Uncle Bud was a
>transfer man for the State of Louisiana. Please don't quote me on that last
>bit.
>At my age I'm liable to read anything."Uncle Bud" Russell was the transfer man in Texas (not Louisiana) for
several decades in the early 20th Century, serving the same role that Joe
Turney aka Turner did in Tennessee earlier. What great sources of folklore
transfer men once provided.AB

On Sat, Mar 05, 2005 at 10:42:43AM -0800, edward cray wrote:
>
> Dolores:
>
> I note that your "search engine" for eBay picked up the Barden folk
>legends volume.  I wonder if you could rewrite that "engine" -- perhaps
>posting to ballad-l in a separate listing -- to pick up more folklore,
>tale, belief, etc., books.
>
> Such a supplement would, first of all, complement the song and ballad
>listings; and, second, would enhance the already considerable value of
>your work on our behalf.
>
> EdHi!        Some of my current searches do find occasional other folklore -
tales, urban legends, folk dance, etc. Among those, the publications of
the Texas Folklore Society and books by or about Zora Neale Hurston
(hope that is spelled correctly!) are among the most frequent finds.        Is there sufficient interest in another Ebay list of this
material to warrant a regular posting? Or perhaps only when something
unusual appears?        Any and all opinions are welcome. :-)                                        Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

> In a message dated 06/03/2005 18:45:34 GMT Standard Time,
> [unmask] writes:
>
> "Uncle  Bud" Russell was the transfer man in Texas (not Louisiana) for
> several  decades in the early 20th Century, serving the same role that Joe
> Turney  aka Turner did in Tennessee earlier. What great sources of  folklore
> transfer men once provided.        Could someone please explain what a "transfer man" is?  Both
Dolores and I are scratching our heads.  Is it anything like a
"remittance man"?        Thanks,
                DoN.--
 Email:   <[unmask]>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
        (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
           --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

>From: "DoN. Nichols" <[unmask]>
>         Could someone please explain what a "transfer man" is?  Both
>Dolores and I are scratching our heads.  Is it anything like a
>"remittance man"?A transfer man is the guy whose job it is to pick up convicts from county
jails and take them to the state prison.---Andrew

MACES SPRINGS - The stage of the Carter Fold will have one glowing smile
conspicuously missing during its regular Saturday night music show.Joe Carter, who actually helped in the construction of the venue known for
its down-home feel and was a cornerstone of the preservation of old-time
mountain music, succumbed to cancer Wednesday afternoon at his home."We had been anticipating and trying to get ourselves ready for this, but it
still hurts to give him up," said Carter Fold executive and Carter's niece,
Rita Forrester. "He meant so much to me, to Janette, and so many people.
They broke the mold when they made my Uncle Joe.''Carter, 78, was just five months old when he accompanied his mother and
father, A.P. and Sara Carter, on a trip from Maces Springs to Bristol in
June 1927 that would become one of the most famous recording sessions in
country music history.Friend and WGOC Bluegrass Show host Tim White said Thursday that Joe was the
last direct connection to anyone who was at that original session that took
place on State Street that virtually launched the careers of the Carter
Family and has been frequently called "the big bang of country music.''"Years ago, I asked Joe if he remembered being at the session, and he told
me he didn't remember much about it but wished he would have because that
would have been some story to tell,'' said White."He told me that his older sister Gladys had to baby-sit him while his mom
and dad were involved in those recording sessions. (Gladys) told him that
she would take him down to Beaver Creek and throw grass in the creek to
pacify him."Joe was the last living link to those sessions. Helen, Maybelle's daughter,
was there, but she was still inside Maybelle's tummy because Maybelle was
eight months pregnant at the time of the recordings.''White also likened Carter to "a big ol' little boy,'' who was not only known
for his pure bass voice, which he would use as he accompanied sister Janette
Carter many nights on stage, but for his uncanny animal sounds he would
make, which were recently a part of a DVD produced by Marty Stuart that
accompanied his latest album, "Country Music.''Stuart, family friend and country legend Tom T. Hall, and John Carter Cash,
son of the late Johnny and June Carter Cash, are listed among the honorary
pallbearers for Joe's funeral at 2 p.m. Sunday at Mount Vernon United
Methodist Church, where he will be laid to rest beside his parents in the
church's cemetery.Calling hours for Carter will be from 4 to 8 p.m. Saturday at Scott County
Funeral Home in Weber City."Joe always liked to have fun, and he was truly the life of a party. If you
saw him from a distance, you would think he was some kind of salty old goat.
But once you talked to him, you found out what a funny guy he was and how
special a human being he was. I am going to miss his laugh and miss him
altogether,'' White said.Forrester commented on Carter's 78th birthday party held at his home on
Sunday, which she said was a blessing."He knew that he was surrounded by love. He had been struggling with this
for a while, but he remained loyal to the Fold. He even came and performed
in his wheelchair, including his last performance a few weeks ago,'' said
Forrester.Carter, who served in the latter part of World War II in the U.S. Navy and
later became a master carpenter, used his woodworking traits to the fullest
in helping build the structure that has been used to keep the memories of
A.P., Sara and Maybelle and the music they created in the shadows of Clinch
Mountain alive."He hammered boards and put seats in when that building first went up. It
was his love, and it meant so much to him to see the Fold become what it has
grown into,'' said Forrester.She also noted that he helped in the construction of other notable landmarks
in the region, including Dobyns-Bennett High School and various facilities
at Breaks Interstate Park.The passing of Joe Carter marks another sorrowful time that has come upon
the valley near Hiltons, which mourned the deaths of Johnny and June Carter
Cash in 2003 with an outpouring of support for a family that has become part
of the region's history.Two weeks ago, a Leon Kiser Memorial musical tribute show was conducted at
the Fold, and a program was given to concert goers that featured Joe and
other family members hard at work constructing the music center.White says it gave him a message that he had dwelled on for years and what
Joe and the Carter Family meant to the local music scene and to the mountain
music that he was so proud to produce."I thought what an undertaking that was for an old country boy there who
just wanted to see this music do good. And he did it. And over the years, he
has put many stars in his crown, because he helped people,'' said White.Forrester said the Saturday evening tradition that Joe and Janette began
back in 1975 will continue this Saturday."We still plan to present a show at the Fold, which will end up being a
tribute to Joe. All of us may not be there because of the funeral services,
but we feel like Uncle Joe would have wanted us to go with the show,'' she
said.Carter is also survived by three daughters and seven grandchildren.According to a message posted on the Carter Family Fold Web site Thursday,
flowers or a donation to the Mount Vernon United Methodist Church Cemetery
Fund can be sent to the following address: Mount Vernon United Methodist
Church Cemetery Fund, c/o Mrs. Flo Wolfe, Route 1, Box 76A, Hiltons, Va.
24258.More information on Joe Carter and the Carter Family is available on the
Internet at www.carterfamilyfold.org.>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Sat, 5 Mar 2005 16:09:35 -0600
>From:    "Robert B. Waltz" <[unmask]>
>Subject: Death of Joe Carter
>
>I've been sick all week, so maybe this came up and no one
>mentioned it, but I thought it better to repeat than leave
>it out.
>
>Joe Carter, the son of A. P. and Sara, died last Wednesday of
>cancer at the age of 78. He was present at the Bristol Sessions --
>thought to be the last living person to have been associated with
>the events. He recorded with his father A. P. and sister Janette
>on the Acme label from 1952-1956, and later sang bass with Sara
>and Maybelle.
>
>I don't have much else in the way of detail.
>
>--
>Bob Waltz
>[unmask]
>
>"The one thing we learn from history --
>    is that no one ever learns from history."<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>
Guavaberry Books
http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/GuavaberryBooks/
Domino - Traditional Children's Songs, Proverbs, and Culture U.S.V.I.
Find Music Books by The Funk Brothers  - 2x Grammy WinnersThe Educational CyberPlayGround
http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/National Children's Folksong Repository
http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/Culdesac/Repository/NCFR.htmlHot List of Schools Online
Net Happenings, K12 Newsletters, Network Newsletters
http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/Community/index.html7 Hot Site Awards
New York Times, USA Today , MSNBC, Earthlink,
USA Today Best Bets For Educators, Macworld Top Fifty
<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>~~~~~<>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dolores Nichols" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: 06 March 2005 20:16
Subject: Re: Ebay List - 03/04/05> On Sat, Mar 05, 2005 at 10:42:43AM -0800, edward cray wrote:> > I note that your "search engine" for eBay picked up the Barden folk
> >legends volume.  I wonder if you could rewrite that "engine" -- perhaps
> >posting to ballad-l in a separate listing -- to pick up more folklore,
> >tale, belief, etc., books.
> >
> > Such a supplement would, first of all, complement the song and ballad
> >listings; and, second, would enhance the already considerable value of
> >your work on our behalf.>         Some of my current searches do find occasional other folklore -
> tales, urban legends, folk dance, etc. Among those, the publications of
> the Texas Folklore Society and books by or about Zora Neale Hurston
> (hope that is spelled correctly!) are among the most frequent finds.
>
>         Is there sufficient interest in another Ebay list of this
> material to warrant a regular posting? Or perhaps only when something
> unusual appears?
>
>         Any and all opinions are welcome. :-)Anything you may come up with is likely to be of interest. A lot of us have picked up things we'd
have missed otherwise if not for your sterling work. The more, the better, I'd say; though I may
have to work extra night shifts and make some more shelves.Best regardsMalcolm Douglas

Back in the early- to mid-1990's, I believe, zydeco star
Boozoo Chavis did a song called "Uncle Bud" which seems to
stem from the same root as the song you're looking for, but
the words are considerably different, though just as
graphic. (I believe he also did a cleaned-up version). Can't
recall the name of the CD (on Rounder), but it was the only
zydeco CD ever to come with an Explicit Lyrics warning label
(though there were only two bawdy songs on it; believe
me, that was enough to warrant the label).
Tom Bingham
School of Music
SUNY Fredonia

Hello everyone,Here is a PDF of "Six New Negro Songs with Music" by Nicolas
Joseph Hutchingson Smith in the _Follow the Drinkin' Gou'd_
journal of the Texas Folk-lore Society 1928.  Download here:
http://tinyurl.com/4fcjp     The last song is "O, Bud" of which
he gives one bowdlerized verse.A six stanza bawdy "Uncle Bud" with music can be found on pgs
249-50 of Roger Abrahams' "Negro Folklore in South Philadelphia"
unpublished 1962 dissertation.Yours,John Mehlberg

On 2005/03/06 at 08:46:23PM -0600, Andrew Brown wrote:> >From: "DoN. Nichols" <[unmask]>
> >        Could someone please explain what a "transfer man" is?  Both        [ ... ]> A transfer man is the guy whose job it is to pick up convicts from county
> jails and take them to the state prison.        Thank you!        Enjoy,
                DoN.--
 Email:   <[unmask]>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
        (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
           --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

"Uncle Bud" and "Deacon Jones" are on the same Boozoo Chavis
CD, "Who Stole My Monkey", and if memory serves, they're
both racy.
>
> Could you be thinking of Boozoo's song, "Deacon Jones" ?
>
> JL
>
> bingham <[unmask]> wrote:
> Back in the early- to mid-1990's, I believe, zydeco star
> Boozoo Chavis did a song called "Uncle Bud" which seems to
> stem from the same root as the song you're looking for,
> but the words are considerably different, though just as
> graphic. (I believe he also did a cleaned-up version).
> Can't recall the name of the CD (on Rounder), but it was
> the only zydeco CD ever to come with an Explicit Lyrics
> warning label (though there were only two bawdy songs on
> it; believe me, that was enough to warrant the label).
> Tom Bingham
> School of Music
> SUNY Fredonia
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
>  Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Or you can get it from CAMSCO (who carries the entire Rounder catalog as
well as everything else in print) for $12.98Jonathan Lighter wrote:> A 1999 interview with Boozoo Chavis (1930-2001) that mentions these
> two songs (from his childhood) is here:
>
> http://www.offbeat.com/ob9904/boozoo.html
>
> "Who Stole My Monkey?" (1999) is available from Rounderstore here:
>
> http://www.rounderstore.com/retail/product.asp?P=1166121562
>
> JL
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
> Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
> <http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/>

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

John (and others),Are there resources, finding tools, etc. for old
journals? Did you make the ZIP fiile of the Texas
journal? I was looking for The Journal of Irish
Folklore (or some similar title-- it's been a while),
and, short of going to Dublin, was unable to find it.
Even if one does find the publication, how does one
look at it, get copies and so forth?What reminded me of all this is the intro to O Bud!
Guess you have to go to the Harvard College Library to
find those "unprintable" stanzas."The nature of this song is such as to prohibit the
printing of the six collected stanzas that go with the
music. The words are deposited in the Harvard College
Library, as well as at the College of William and
Mary..."
-----------------------------------------------------------Here is a PDF of "Six New Negro Songs with Music" by
Nicolas Joseph Hutchingson Smith in the _Follow the
Drinkin' Gou'd_ journal of the Texas Folk-lore Society
1928.

Dear Cliff,I made the zip of the PDF myself as I own a copy of the Journal.
As far as I know most of the state folklore journals are not online.
There is some underground "trafficking" in scholarly works which are
difficult or impossible to get but necessary for research.  What
once was sharing photocopies is now sharing a self-made PDF.   If
you tell me what journal you want, I may be able to find you a copy.Yes, if I want a copy of the "O, Bud" I will have to get it from
Harvard or William and Mary.   The world was different then and even
scholars could not share what they had found if it had unacceptable
words or concepts.   At least he had the decency to record that the
song exists and where the song can be found.  Many of the best known
ballad scholars were less kind with the songs they encountered.
Either they refused to collect the song or, if they did collect it,
they completely rewrote the songs.Yours,John Mehlberg.----- Original Message -----
From: "Cliff Abrams" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 7:30 AM
Subject: Journal ResourcesJohn (and others),Are there resources, finding tools, etc. for old
journals? Did you make the ZIP file of the Texas
journal? I was looking for The Journal of Irish
Folklore (or some similar title-- it's been a while),
and, short of going to Dublin, was unable to find it.
Even if one does find the publication, how does one
look at it, get copies and so forth?What reminded me of all this is the intro to O Bud!
Guess you have to go to the Harvard College Library to
find those "unprintable" stanzas."The nature of this song is such as to prohibit the
printing of the six collected stanzas that go with the
music. The words are deposited in the Harvard College
Library, as well as at the College of William and
Mary..."
-----------------------------------------------------------Here is a PDF of "Six New Negro Songs with Music" by
Nicolas Joseph Hutchingson Smith in the _Follow the
Drinkin' Gou'd_ journal of the Texas Folk-lore Society
1928.

Seehttp://jargonbooks.com/vancerandolph.htmlfor a few "Uncle Bud" verses.  I suspect that there are more in the
Randolph/Legman "Unprintable" volumes, which I don't have in my
office right now.John

See Bud Russell's grandson's WWW site, with lots of info about Bud, here:http://texashideout.tripod.com/russell.htmlJohn

A CD by Bob Walser, "When Our Ship Comes Home," from The Tradition
Bearers, PO Box 26064 KILMARNOCK, KA2 0YG, Scotland, is said to
contain a song entitled "Uncle Bud."http://www.thetraditionbearers.com/htmfiles/recordings_oldandnew.htmJohn

According to his liner notes, Bob's version is taken from Mary Wheeler's
"Steamboatin' Days: Folk Songs of the River Packet Era" (Baton Rouge: LA
State U. Press).JohnOn 3/8/05 2:27 PM, "John Garst" <[unmask]> wrote:> A CD by Bob Walser, "When Our Ship Comes Home," from The Tradition
> Bearers, PO Box 26064 KILMARNOCK, KA2 0YG, Scotland, is said to
> contain a song entitled "Uncle Bud."
>
> http://www.thetraditionbearers.com/htmfiles/recordings_oldandnew.htm
>
> John

An Amazon.com search by song title, "Uncle Bud," results in 69 hits.
Not all of  these are "our" song, but some are.John

It is on that CD. Here are the notes that describe the song:
."Uncle Bud is taken from Mary Wheeler's fine Steamboatin' Days Folk
Songs of the River Packet Era (Baton Rouge Louisiana State U Press
1944} the only print collection to include a number of riverboatmen's
working songs.I played it and the first verse goes: Well old Uncle Bud coming down
the road hauling women by the wagon load
The chorus is Uncle Bud Uncle Bud Uncle Bud Bud Bud I got it Uncle Bud
The remaining verses are not in anyway bawdy unless it is code I don't
understandGeorgeGeorge F Madaus
Professor Emeritus
Boston College
On Mar, 08, 2005, at 2:27 PM, John Garst wrote:> A CD by Bob Walser, "When Our Ship Comes Home," from The Tradition
> Bearers, PO Box 26064 KILMARNOCK, KA2 0YG, Scotland, is said to
> contain a song entitled "Uncle Bud."
>
> http://www.thetraditionbearers.com/htmfiles/recordings_oldandnew.htm
>
> John

Tampa Red recorded "Uncle Bud."John

Of course -- "'Cause Mr. Bud Russell/ He means to starve the men..."----- Original Message -----
From: "John Garst" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 2:16 PM
Subject: Re: "Uncle Bud" song> See Bud Russell's grandson's WWW site, with lots of info about Bud, here:
>
> http://texashideout.tripod.com/russell.html
>
> John
>

For anyone with deep pockets:http://www.periodicals.com/index.htmlPartners with over 40 years experience, we are major reprinters of academic
journals and specialize in the supply of antiquarian backsets, back volumes and
back issues of out-of-print journals and serialsfor example:PERCY SOCIETY, LONDON. PUBLICATIONS
Vols. 1-30 (i.e. nos. 1-94). London, 1840-1852. Bound
Complete set $ 2,150.-drool.*sigh*Heather

Hi!        Here is a first cut/sample of the proposed Ebay list of
folklore, tales, etc. Comments are welcome, encouraged and solicited.        4532578804 - Jack Always Seeks His Fortune by Davis, 1992, $5.95
(ends Mar-09-05 17:35:59 PST)        4532618012 - The Best of Texas Folk and Folklore 1916-1954 by
Boatright, 1998, $5.99 (ends Mar-09-05 20:07:35 PST)        6950050946 - Grandfather Tales by Chase, 1948, $4.99 (ends
Mar-10-05 19:38:53 PST)        5563184623 - Tennessee Folklore Society Bulletin, 3 issues,
1966-67, $6.99 (ends Mar-11-05 12:37:36 PST)        4533392200 - Outwitting the Devil:  Jack Tales from Wise County,
Virginia by Perdue, 1987, $4.95 (ends Mar-12-05 11:00:22 PST)        4533393751 - Pigsfoot Jelly & Persimmon Beer: Foodways from the
Virginia Writers' Project by Perdue, 1992, $4.95 (ends Mar-12-05
11:05:37 PST)        6160318784 - Celtic Fairy Tales by Jacobs, reprint, $7.95 (ends
Mar-12-05 11:52:17 PST)        5564138851 - Truculent Rustics Molly (Morris) Dancing in East
Anglia before 1940 by Bradtke, 0.99 GBP (ends Mar-13-05 10:39:34 PST)        4533781602 - Encyclopedia of Urban Legends by Brunvand, 2002, $3
(ends Mar-13-05 16:35:01 PST)        4533850365 - Cajun And Creole Folktales by Ancelet, 1994, $9.95
(ends Mar-13-05 20:24:07 PST)        6950575785 - The word on the Brazos by Brewer, 1953, $5 (ends
Mar-14-05 08:01:08 PST)        4533930958 - THE ROADS OF HOME ... LANES AND LEGENDS OF NEW
JERSEY by Beck, 1956, $5.95 (ends Mar-14-05 20:15:00 PST)        6949116747 - HOT SPRINGS AND HELL by Randolph, 1965, $24.95
(ends ?)                                Happy Bidding!
                                Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

Dolores:Yes, yes, yes!Even if your trolling pulls up a lot of skank, Doris, there are good things here.First, of course, would be the Randolph, _Hot Springs  and Hell,_ one of that great collector's anthologies of folk tales/jokes/anecdotes from the Ozarks.  Though the books are scarce, so far as I know this is the only one that was ever reprinted, this by the late Ken Goldstein's Folklore Associates.  (Ken, probably as responsible as anyone for the folk song revival, never made a distinction between song and lore.  In his mind, it was all part of the same multi-colored quilt.)I look forward to further lists, Dolores.Ed----- Original Message -----
From: Dolores Nichols <[unmask]>
Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2005 4:04 pm
Subject: Ebay List - 03/08/05 (Folklore)> Hi!
>
>        Here is a first cut/sample of the proposed Ebay list of
> folklore, tales, etc. Comments are welcome, encouraged and solicited.
>
>        4532578804 - Jack Always Seeks His Fortune by Davis, 1992,
> $5.95(ends Mar-09-05 17:35:59 PST)
>
>        4532618012 - The Best of Texas Folk and Folklore 1916-1954 by
> Boatright, 1998, $5.99 (ends Mar-09-05 20:07:35 PST)
>
>        6950050946 - Grandfather Tales by Chase, 1948, $4.99 (ends
> Mar-10-05 19:38:53 PST)
>
>        5563184623 - Tennessee Folklore Society Bulletin, 3 issues,
> 1966-67, $6.99 (ends Mar-11-05 12:37:36 PST)
>
>        4533392200 - Outwitting the Devil:  Jack Tales from Wise
> County,Virginia by Perdue, 1987, $4.95 (ends Mar-12-05 11:00:22 PST)
>
>        4533393751 - Pigsfoot Jelly & Persimmon Beer: Foodways from
> theVirginia Writers' Project by Perdue, 1992, $4.95 (ends Mar-12-05
> 11:05:37 PST)
>
>        6160318784 - Celtic Fairy Tales by Jacobs, reprint, $7.95
> (endsMar-12-05 11:52:17 PST)
>
>        5564138851 - Truculent Rustics Molly (Morris) Dancing in East
> Anglia before 1940 by Bradtke, 0.99 GBP (ends Mar-13-05 10:39:34 PST)
>
>        4533781602 - Encyclopedia of Urban Legends by Brunvand,
> 2002, $3
> (ends Mar-13-05 16:35:01 PST)
>
>        4533850365 - Cajun And Creole Folktales by Ancelet, 1994,
> $9.95(ends Mar-13-05 20:24:07 PST)
>
>        6950575785 - The word on the Brazos by Brewer, 1953, $5 (ends
> Mar-14-05 08:01:08 PST)
>
>        4533930958 - THE ROADS OF HOME ... LANES AND LEGENDS OF NEW
> JERSEY by Beck, 1956, $5.95 (ends Mar-14-05 20:15:00 PST)
>
>        6949116747 - HOT SPRINGS AND HELL by Randolph, 1965, $24.95
> (ends ?)
>
>                                Happy Bidding!
>                                Dolores
>
> --
> Dolores Nichols                 |
> D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
> Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
>        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?
>

John,Thanks very much for the information. I'll look
into... what i'm looking for and contact you directly.C.
"... As far as I know most of the state folklore
journals are
not online... If you tell me what journal you want, I
may be able to find
you a copy."

>We should soon have the book on this by Ted Anthony, and I expect it
>to be authoritative.
>
>JohnTed tells me that the book is scheduled to appear in mid-2006.John

Dolores:
Thanks for all the helpful work!
Norm----- Original Message -----
From: "Dolores Nichols" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 4:04 PM
Subject: Ebay List - 03/08/05 (Folklore)> Hi!
>
>         Here is a first cut/sample of the proposed Ebay list of
> folklore, tales, etc. Comments are welcome, encouraged and solicited.
>
>         4532578804 - Jack Always Seeks His Fortune by Davis, 1992, $5.95
> (ends Mar-09-05 17:35:59 PST)
>
>         4532618012 - The Best of Texas Folk and Folklore 1916-1954 by
> Boatright, 1998, $5.99 (ends Mar-09-05 20:07:35 PST)
>
>         6950050946 - Grandfather Tales by Chase, 1948, $4.99 (ends
> Mar-10-05 19:38:53 PST)
>
>         5563184623 - Tennessee Folklore Society Bulletin, 3 issues,
> 1966-67, $6.99 (ends Mar-11-05 12:37:36 PST)
>
>         4533392200 - Outwitting the Devil:  Jack Tales from Wise County,
> Virginia by Perdue, 1987, $4.95 (ends Mar-12-05 11:00:22 PST)
>
>         4533393751 - Pigsfoot Jelly & Persimmon Beer: Foodways from the
> Virginia Writers' Project by Perdue, 1992, $4.95 (ends Mar-12-05
> 11:05:37 PST)
>
>         6160318784 - Celtic Fairy Tales by Jacobs, reprint, $7.95 (ends
> Mar-12-05 11:52:17 PST)
>
>         5564138851 - Truculent Rustics Molly (Morris) Dancing in East
> Anglia before 1940 by Bradtke, 0.99 GBP (ends Mar-13-05 10:39:34 PST)
>
>         4533781602 - Encyclopedia of Urban Legends by Brunvand, 2002, $3
> (ends Mar-13-05 16:35:01 PST)
>
>         4533850365 - Cajun And Creole Folktales by Ancelet, 1994, $9.95
> (ends Mar-13-05 20:24:07 PST)
>
>         6950575785 - The word on the Brazos by Brewer, 1953, $5 (ends
> Mar-14-05 08:01:08 PST)
>
>         4533930958 - THE ROADS OF HOME ... LANES AND LEGENDS OF NEW
> JERSEY by Beck, 1956, $5.95 (ends Mar-14-05 20:15:00 PST)
>
>         6949116747 - HOT SPRINGS AND HELL by Randolph, 1965, $24.95
> (ends ?)
>
>                                 Happy Bidding!
>                                 Dolores
>
> --
> Dolores Nichols                 |
> D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
> Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
>         --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?
>

Folks:We've come a long way from Kansas, Toto.Ed---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------From     Margaret Yocom <[unmask]>
Sent    Wednesday, March 9, 2005 1:19 pm
To      [unmask]
Subject         [PUBLORE] Sign Folklore & Creative Writing petitionHello,  everyone. Amy Skillman and I would like to ask you for your
support in establishing a new Folklore & Creative Writing Section of
AFS. If you're willing -- and you're an AFS member-- please sign this
petition at the very end and email it back to me as soon as possible--
but especially before 16 March.Please pass this request on to any AFS person who might be interested.Thanks for considering our petition.
Peggy Yocom________________________________________________________________A Petition to the AFS Board of Directors for Establishing theFolklore and Creative Writing SectionRationale:
Many members of the American Folklore Society have an abiding interest
in creative writing. Recent productions include, for example, the novel
by Betty Belanus; the theater work of Elaine Lawless and her students;
the non-fiction of Barry Lopez; and the poetry of Susan Stewart and
Steven Zeitlin. Joanne Mulcahy of Lewis and Clark College, Portland, OR,
sponsors a summer workshop on creative writing and ethnography. The most
recent volume of the Journal of American Folklore has published works in
creative ethnography. In September 2005, the New York Folklore Society
will sponsor a conference in conjunction with creative writers of the
Hudson Valley Writers Center in honor of the 60th anniversary of the New
York folklore journal, now named Voices. Also, folklorists have long
studied the creative forms of others: cowboy, logger, and fisher poetry,
for example. With this Section, we hope to highlight the talents of
folklorists, provide an opportunity for dialogue, and consider how
creative writing has influenced the field of folklore-what we do and how
we do it-and how folklore influences creative writers. We also believe
that our work with creative writing will broaden public awareness of
folklore and of the issues folklorists explore.Goals:
The Folklore and Creative Writing section intends to (1) gather
folklorists with an interest in creative writing; (2) hold regular
panels and events such as readings and section-sponsored speakers, at
the AFS annual meeting; (3) provide support for folklorists who write,
teach, or organize workshops in poetry, drama, fiction writing, creative
non-fiction writing, and more;
(4) provide educational opportunities for folklorists who want to
improve their creative writing skills; (5) publicize and promote the
creative performance folklorists are doing, such as the theater piece
that immigrant women are creating with the sponsorship of the Institute
for Cultural Partnerships; (6) create additional venues for the
publication and performance of creative writing by folklorists; (7)
establish dialogues between AFS and creative writing associations, such
as the Association of Writers and Writing Programs, by sponsoring panels
at their conferences (http://www.awpwriter.org); and (8) work with the
Storytelling Section of AFS on programs of mutual interest.Operations:
The Section intends to (1) hold an annual meeting during the annual AFS
conference; (2) maintain a listserve among the section members; (3)
maintain a website.Initially the Section will not have dues, but it may collect dues in the
future to offset expenses. To become a member of the Section,
folklorists are asked to email Margaret "Peggy" Yocom at [unmask]At the first meeting of the section, members will make final membership
decisions. For example, the Section could have two co-conveners who
serve 2 years, in staggered terms. Co-conveners and the Committee could
be voted into office during the AFS Conference. Should the Section be
established, it will be moderated by the sponsors of this petition:
Peggy Yocom of  George Mason University, Fairfax, VA, and Amy Skillman,
Institute of Cultural Partnerships, Harrisburg, PA.To support the establishment of the Folklore and Creative Writing Section:
Please replace the phrase (YOUR NAME, YOUR AFFILIATION) below with your
name and your affiliation, and email this message back to Peggy Yocom at
[unmask] as soon as possible, before Wednesday 16 March 2005.I,    (YOUR NAME, YOUR AFFILIATION), as an AFS member, support this
petition to establish a Folklore and Creative Writing Section of the
American Folklore Society.

Hi!        Here is the regular Ebay list for this week.        SONGSTERS        6517045923 - The Army Songster Dedicated to the Army of Northern
Virginia, 1902, $8 (ends Mar-13-05 17:57:40 PST)        6950872353 - CHARLEY GLEASON'S "NEVER SAY DIE" SONGSTER, 1870,
$0.99 (ends Mar-19-05 08:43:49 PST)        MISCELLANEOUS        4707812335 - RAMBLING BOYS-ULSTER BALLADS by Cinnamond, LP, 1975,
$9.99 (ends Mar-13-05 11:05:00 PST)        4708292653 - THE UNEXPURGATED FOLK SONGS OF MEN, LP, 1960, $9.99
(ends Mar-14-05 20:24:30 PST)        3880336829 - TRADITIONAL MUSIC MAKER, magazine, Feb-Mar 1998, 0.99
GBP (ends Mar-15-05 13:31:09 PST)        6950808603 - JEMF Quarterly, summer 1973, $3.99 (ends Mar-15-05
19:08:38 PST)        7305825399 - Broadside, The Irish Rake, 1860?, $9.50 (ends
Mar-17-05 20:30:00 PST)        SONGBOOKS, ETC.        7305517909 - A TOUCH ON THE TIMES. SONGS OF SOCIAL CHANGE 1770 TO
1914 by Palmer, 1.99 GBP (ends Mar-10-05 14:32:34 PST)        5173059252 - Broadside, 1863?, 5.50 GBP (ends Mar-10-05 15:24:41 PST)        4532889160 - Texas Folk Songs by Owens, 1950, $9.99 (ends Mar-10-05
17:29:04 PST)        4533397762 - The English and Scottish Popular Ballads by Child,
Russian-English edition, 1988, $9.99 (ends Mar-12-05 11:17:45 PST)        7305892281 - Folk Dances and Singing Games, 1938, $0.99 (ends
Mar-12-05 11:25:03 PST)        7305955467 - Folk Songs From The Southern Highlands by Henry, 1938,
$15.50 (ends Mar-12-05 16:55:51 PST)        4533491289 - Traditional American Folk Songs by Warner, 1984, $9.99
(ends Mar-12-05 17:54:36 PST)        6949928738 - A GUN-ROOM DITTY BOX by Bowles, 1898, 0.99 GBP (ends
Mar-13-05 07:40:35 PST)        7306617545 - KERR'S 'BUCHAN' BOTHY BALLADS, 2 GBP (ends Mar-13-05
09:20:18 PST)        6950458506 - A Lytell Geste Of Robin Hode by gutch, 1867, $12.50
(ends Mar-13-05 13:08:21 PST)        4533777331 - ONE HUNDRED ENGLISH FOLKSONGS by Sharp, $4.88 (ends
Mar-13-05 16:16:15 PST)        6949775978 - Folk-Songs, Chanteys, and Singing Games by Sharp &
Farnsworth, $9.99 (ends Mar-13-05 17:47:00 PST)        6517055428 - 101 FAVORITE BALLADS, COWBOY & MOUNTAIN SONGS by
Cross, 1940?, $4.99 (ends Mar-13-05 20:00:00 PST)        6950632196 - English and Scottish Ballads by Child, 8 volumes in 4,
1885 edition, $95 (ends Mar-14-05 14:12:27 PST)        3880336829 - TRADITIONAL MUSIC MAKER, magazine, Feb-Mar 1998, 0.99
GBP (ends Mar-15-05 13:31:09 PST)        6950527636 - Songs of the North by MacLeod & Boulton, 1910?,
$49.95 AU (ends Mar-16-05 20:15:14 PST)        4533929517 - Victoria's Inferno: Songs of the Old Mills, Mines,
Manufactories, Canals and Railways by Raven, 5.50 GBP (ends Mar-17-05
05:28:41 PST)                                Happy Bidding!
                                Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

Folks:Be advised, the important Mellinger E. Henry volume turns up rarely on Abebooks, if at all.  I would estimate that a rare book dealer would unblushingly ask $100 for the book.  (If I did not own it, I would never post this notice.)Ed----- Original Message -----
From: Dolores Nichols <[unmask]>
Date: Wednesday, March 9, 2005 4:54 pm
Subject: Ebay List - 03/09/05> Hi!
>
>        Here is the regular Ebay list for this week.
>
>        SONGSTERS
>
>        6517045923 - The Army Songster Dedicated to the Army of
> NorthernVirginia, 1902, $8 (ends Mar-13-05 17:57:40 PST)
>
>        6950872353 - CHARLEY GLEASON'S "NEVER SAY DIE" SONGSTER, 1870,
> $0.99 (ends Mar-19-05 08:43:49 PST)
>
>        MISCELLANEOUS
>
>        4707812335 - RAMBLING BOYS-ULSTER BALLADS by Cinnamond, LP,
> 1975,$9.99 (ends Mar-13-05 11:05:00 PST)
>
>        4708292653 - THE UNEXPURGATED FOLK SONGS OF MEN, LP, 1960,
> $9.99(ends Mar-14-05 20:24:30 PST)
>
>        3880336829 - TRADITIONAL MUSIC MAKER, magazine, Feb-Mar
> 1998, 0.99
> GBP (ends Mar-15-05 13:31:09 PST)
>
>        6950808603 - JEMF Quarterly, summer 1973, $3.99 (ends Mar-
> 15-05
> 19:08:38 PST)
>
>        7305825399 - Broadside, The Irish Rake, 1860?, $9.50 (ends
> Mar-17-05 20:30:00 PST)
>
>        SONGBOOKS, ETC.
>
>        7305517909 - A TOUCH ON THE TIMES. SONGS OF SOCIAL CHANGE
> 1770 TO
> 1914 by Palmer, 1.99 GBP (ends Mar-10-05 14:32:34 PST)
>
>        5173059252 - Broadside, 1863?, 5.50 GBP (ends Mar-10-05
> 15:24:41 PST)
>
>        4532889160 - Texas Folk Songs by Owens, 1950, $9.99 (ends
> Mar-10-05
> 17:29:04 PST)
>
>        4533397762 - The English and Scottish Popular Ballads by
> Child,Russian-English edition, 1988, $9.99 (ends Mar-12-05 11:17:45
> PST)
>        7305892281 - Folk Dances and Singing Games, 1938, $0.99 (ends
> Mar-12-05 11:25:03 PST)
>
>        7305955467 - Folk Songs From The Southern Highlands by
> Henry, 1938,
> $15.50 (ends Mar-12-05 16:55:51 PST)
>
>        4533491289 - Traditional American Folk Songs by Warner,
> 1984, $9.99
> (ends Mar-12-05 17:54:36 PST)
>
>        6949928738 - A GUN-ROOM DITTY BOX by Bowles, 1898, 0.99 GBP
> (endsMar-13-05 07:40:35 PST)
>
>        7306617545 - KERR'S 'BUCHAN' BOTHY BALLADS, 2 GBP (ends Mar-
> 13-05
> 09:20:18 PST)
>
>        6950458506 - A Lytell Geste Of Robin Hode by gutch, 1867,
> $12.50(ends Mar-13-05 13:08:21 PST)
>
>        4533777331 - ONE HUNDRED ENGLISH FOLKSONGS by Sharp, $4.88
> (endsMar-13-05 16:16:15 PST)
>
>        6949775978 - Folk-Songs, Chanteys, and Singing Games by
> Sharp &
> Farnsworth, $9.99 (ends Mar-13-05 17:47:00 PST)
>
>        6517055428 - 101 FAVORITE BALLADS, COWBOY & MOUNTAIN SONGS by
> Cross, 1940?, $4.99 (ends Mar-13-05 20:00:00 PST)
>
>        6950632196 - English and Scottish Ballads by Child, 8
> volumes in 4,
> 1885 edition, $95 (ends Mar-14-05 14:12:27 PST)
>
>        3880336829 - TRADITIONAL MUSIC MAKER, magazine, Feb-Mar
> 1998, 0.99
> GBP (ends Mar-15-05 13:31:09 PST)
>
>        6950527636 - Songs of the North by MacLeod & Boulton, 1910?,
> $49.95 AU (ends Mar-16-05 20:15:14 PST)
>
>        4533929517 - Victoria's Inferno: Songs of the Old Mills,
> Mines,Manufactories, Canals and Railways by Raven, 5.50 GBP (ends
> Mar-17-05
> 05:28:41 PST)
>
>                                Happy Bidding!
>                                Dolores
>
>
> --
> Dolores Nichols                 |
> D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
> Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
>        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?
>

Okay, here are the words as I hear them --Tushielaw's a hunting ga'en
And gallant is his deed
For he's ta'en the heart o' lady March
The fairest maid in TweedAnd her fayther he has banished him
For he's below her station
And Tushielaw has fled to France
to fight for king and nation   She's the earl of March's daughter
   And the fairest of them a'
   But the humble squire of Tushielaw
   Has ta'en her heart awa'Well the lady she has heard the news
That Tushielaw has fled
And the lady's looking pale and wan (drawn?)
She's ta'en tae her bedA physician come to meet her
All season she's been lying
I fear she has a broken heart
I fear my lady's dying   She's the earl of March's daughter...........Well the fayther he's conceded
He's come to tak the blame
And a messenger was sent to France
to fetch her lover hameNoo the lady's feeling better
She's risen to her feet
And she's ta'en a house in Peeblestoon
Her true love there to meet   She's the earl of March's daughter...........But she's looking tired and pallid
Her cheeks have lost their glow
And she's no the handsome beauty that
She was a year agoAnd when Tushielaw to Peebles cam
His horse he did not tether
He quickly passed his lady by
He's ta'en her for another   She's the earl of March's daughter..........Well he's galloped on to meet her
To see his love again
He spurs his horse in anguish
But he's passed his house and hame   (do I have this right?)For his lady lies in Peeblestoon
It's there she's passed awa'
Noo her windered (?) heart may --- (?)
For handsome Tushielaw   She's the earl of March's daughter...........Can anyone fill in my blanks?  (Of course the missing/mangled words will
probably sound loud and clear once I know what they are.)Thanks again.

Hi folks:A correspondent who wishes to remain anonymous writes:<<I've heard of the pajamas-inside-out one; my nieces used to do that. [They
lived in Howell, New Jersey. - PJS]This isn't folklore, but as a child, I do remember doing an actual spell to
try to bring the snow. I don't know where it was dug up from, or whether it
really was an old spell, as I imagined; but I do remember that it involved
drawing a "Solomon's seal," which in retrospect I'm pretty sure meant a star
of David. I got it wrong, though; when I asked my mother what a "Solomon's
seal" was, she said, "It's a kind of flower" (also true), so I drew flowers
instead.>>Peace,
Paul

> Here is the regular Ebay list for this week.
>    5173059252 - Broadside, 1863?, 5.50 GBP (ends Mar-10-05 15:24:41 PST)The seller's enthusiasm for the subject matter is pretty alarming...-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack>     *     food intolerance data & recipes,
Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files, and my CD-ROM "Embro, Embro".
---> off-list mail to "j-c" rather than "ballad-l" at this site, please. <---

Jack:I would be pretty excited too if I got 103GBP for something maybe worth a third of that.  Note that one of the more knowledgeable subscribers to ballad-l bailed out at 16.50 GBP.Seems that the winning bidder is not a folk music person but collects older UK imprints.Ed----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Campin <[unmask]>
Date: Friday, March 11, 2005 10:19 am
Subject: Re: Ebay List - 03/09/05> > Here is the regular Ebay list for this week.
> >    5173059252 - Broadside, 1863?, 5.50 GBP (ends Mar-10-05
> 15:24:41 PST)
>
> The seller's enthusiasm for the subject matter is pretty alarming...
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
> Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU;
> 0131 6604760
> <http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack>     *     food intolerance data
> & recipes,
> Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files, and my CD-ROM
> "Embro, Embro".
> ---> off-list mail to "j-c" rather than "ballad-l" at this site,
> please. <---
>

Due to a shift in Smithsonian-Folkways maketing policies, I'm now in a
position to offer their custom CDs at $16--about four bucks over SF's
price. As before, I carry all of their remastered non-custom CDs at a
buck or two less than S-F charges.dick greenhaus
CAMSCO Music

The news from Atlanta this morning brings to mind the Hillsville
massacre and the ballads based on that event.I wonder if we will have songs about today's events.By the way, some historic documents relating to Sidna Allen are for sale:http://www.tramp-art.com/special1.htmJohn

    Oops-
please make that four bucks */under/*dick greenhaus wrote:> Due to a shift in Smithsonian-Folkways maketing policies, I'm now in a
> position to offer their custom CDs at $16--about four bucks over SF's
> price. As before, I carry all of their remastered non-custom CDs at a
> buck or two less than S-F charges.
>
> dick greenhaus
> CAMSCO Music
>
>

Dick:I read that as four buck over the wholesale price.No damage done.Ed----- Original Message -----
From: dick greenhaus <[unmask]>
Date: Friday, March 11, 2005 1:06 pm
Subject: Re: Blatant Semi-commercial Announcement of probably Limited Interest>    Oops-
> please make that four bucks */under/*
>
> dick greenhaus wrote:
>
> > Due to a shift in Smithsonian-Folkways maketing policies, I'm now
> in a
> > position to offer their custom CDs at $16--about four bucks over
> SF's> price. As before, I carry all of their remastered non-custom
> CDs at a
> > buck or two less than S-F charges.
> >
> > dick greenhaus
> > CAMSCO Music
> >
> >
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "dick greenhaus" <[unmask]><<Due to a shift in Smithsonian-Folkways maketing policies, I'm now in a
position to offer their custom CDs at $16--about four bucks over SF's
price. As before, I carry all of their remastered non-custom CDs at a
buck or two less than S-F charges.>>Dick, I think you mean "about four bucks *under* SF's price"; they normally
sell the custom discs for $20.00. Good deal!Peace,
Paul

I am confused as to who exactly wrote this, and when?  -and is it from the 
Grubstreet Journal, or the Gentleman's Magazine?
Would appreciate clarification, thanks....
LisaAt 03:03 PM 3/3/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>For those who would like to flagellate themselves with the whole article:
>
>Grubstreet Journal, Feb 27 No. 276.
>
>Of Ballad-singing.
>
>The Scandalous Practice of Ballad-singing, is the Bane of all good Manners 
>and Morals, a Nursery for Idlers. Whores and Pickpockets, a School for 
>Scandal, Smut and Debauchery, and ought to be entirely suppressed, or 
>reduced under proper Restriction. If Ballads do not, yet they ought to 
>come under the Stamp Act, and the Law looks on Ballad-singers as Vagrants. 
>This brings to my Mind the ill Conduct of many of our middling Gentry, who 
>suffer their Children, particularly their daughters, to frequent the 
>Kitchen, be familiar with the Servants, and so learn their Manners. One 
>Part of their Conversation turns upon frightful Stories of Witches, 
>Apparitions, &c. which serve to keep Miss in Awe, and in their interest.
>
>Her Delight in the Kitchen-Conversation increases with her Years; now is 
>flattered, taught to shew Tricks upon Cards, and play at Romps; ~ which 
>soon makes her forget htt Birth, and think herself on a level with them. 
>Well! Miss is now out of her Hanging Sleeves, and every one, especially 
>the Footman, tells her how pretty she is. Now Ballads and Love Songs are 
>daily presented her, and vouched for Truth: One tells, "How a Footman died 
>for Love of a young Lady, and how she was haunted by his Ghost, and died 
>for Grief. Another, How the Coachman run away with his young Mistress, 
>took to Hedging and Ditching, and she to Knitting and Spinning, and lived 
>vast Happy, and in great Plenty. And a third, How the young ’Squire, 
>Master’s eldest Son, fell in Love with the Chambermaid, married her at 
>the Fleet, was turn’d out of Doors, kept an Inn, got Money as fast as 
>Hops, till the old Gentleman died suddenly without a Will, and then his 
>Son got all, kept a Coach, and made his Wife a great Lady, who bore him 
>Twins for 12 years together, who all lived to be Justices of the Peace, 
>&c. By such foolish Stories Miss is deluded; sighs, pities, and at last 
>loves; and so too often undone without Remedy
>
>§ A Female Correspondent, who signs Virtuous, complains of the many 
>ruinous Marriages that are every Year practiced in the Fleet, by a Set of 
>drunken swearing Parsons, with their Myrmidons that wear black Coats, and 
>pretend to. be Clerks and Registers to the Fleet, plying about 
>Ludgate-hill, pulling and forcing People to some pedling Alehouse or 
>Brandyshop to be married, even on Sunday, stopping them as they go to the 
>Church.
>
>Not long since, a young Lady was deluded and forced from her Friends, and 
>by the Assistance of a very wicked swearing Parson, married to an 
>atheistical Wretch, whose Life is a continual Practice of all Manner of 
>Vice and Debauchery.?Another young Lady was deecoyed to a House in the 
>confines of the Fleet by a pretended Gentleman. Dr. Wryneck immediately 
>appear'd, and swore she should be married; or if she would not, he would 
>have his Fee, and register the Marriage from that Night. The Lady, to 
>recover her Liberty, left her Ring as a Pledge that she would meet him the 
>morrow Night.
>
>
>
>Gentleman’s Magazine, Vol. 5 Feb 1735, p. 93

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

The relevant section of the Gentleman's Magazine was where they reprinted
interesting items from other publications, in this case The Grub-Street
Journal.
If you're interested in using the GM as a source, you should know about the
excellent site:
'Attributions of Authorship in the Gentleman's Magazine, 1731-1868: An
Electronic Union List' at
http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/browse-gmall?id=GM1731
The entry for this 'Ballad Singing' piece is as follows:
Vol. 3 (1733) :pp. 252.. A:. Letter originally signed "J. Ralph" from the
Grub-Street Journal , No. 178 (24 May 1733). James Ralph [?]. [ Orig.
"Ralph" ]Steve Roud----- Original Message -----
From: "Lisa - S. H." <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 8:38 PM
Subject: Re: The Gentleman's Magazine repubicationI am confused as to who exactly wrote this, and when?  -and is it from the
Grubstreet Journal, or the Gentleman's Magazine?
Would appreciate clarification, thanks....
LisaAt 03:03 PM 3/3/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>For those who would like to flagellate themselves with the whole article:
>
>Grubstreet Journal, Feb 27 No. 276.
>
>Of Ballad-singing.
>
>The Scandalous Practice of Ballad-singing, is the Bane of all good Manners
>and Morals, a Nursery for Idlers. Whores and Pickpockets, a School for
>Scandal, Smut and Debauchery, and ought to be entirely suppressed, or
>reduced under proper Restriction. If Ballads do not, yet they ought to come
>under the Stamp Act, and the Law looks on Ballad-singers as Vagrants. This
>brings to my Mind the ill Conduct of many of our middling Gentry, who
>suffer their Children, particularly their daughters, to frequent the
>Kitchen, be familiar with the Servants, and so learn their Manners. One
>Part of their Conversation turns upon frightful Stories of Witches,
>Apparitions, &c. which serve to keep Miss in Awe, and in their interest.
>
>Her Delight in the Kitchen-Conversation increases with her Years; now is
>flattered, taught to shew Tricks upon Cards, and play at Romps; ~ which
>soon makes her forget htt Birth, and think herself on a level with them.
>Well! Miss is now out of her Hanging Sleeves, and every one, especially the
>Footman, tells her how pretty she is. Now Ballads and Love Songs are daily
>presented her, and vouched for Truth: One tells, "How a Footman died for
>Love of a young Lady, and how she was haunted by his Ghost, and died for
>Grief. Another, How the Coachman run away with his young Mistress, took to
>Hedging and Ditching, and she to Knitting and Spinning, and lived vast
>Happy, and in great Plenty. And a third, How the young ?TSquire,
>Master?Ts eldest Son, fell in Love with the Chambermaid, married her at
>the Fleet, was turn?Td out of Doors, kept an Inn, got Money as fast as
>Hops, till the old Gentleman died suddenly without a Will, and then his Son
>got all, kept a Coach, and made his Wife a great Lady, who bore him Twins
>for 12 years together, who all lived to be Justices of the Peace, &c. By
>such foolish Stories Miss is deluded; sighs, pities, and at last loves; and
>so too often undone without Remedy
>
>§ A Female Correspondent, who signs Virtuous, complains of the many
>ruinous Marriages that are every Year practiced in the Fleet, by a Set of
>drunken swearing Parsons, with their Myrmidons that wear black Coats, and
>pretend to. be Clerks and Registers to the Fleet, plying about
>Ludgate-hill, pulling and forcing People to some pedling Alehouse or
>Brandyshop to be married, even on Sunday, stopping them as they go to the
>Church.
>
>Not long since, a young Lady was deluded and forced from her Friends, and
>by the Assistance of a very wicked swearing Parson, married to an
>atheistical Wretch, whose Life is a continual Practice of all Manner of
>Vice and Debauchery.-Another young Lady was deecoyed to a House in the
>confines of the Fleet by a pretended Gentleman. Dr. Wryneck immediately
>appear'd, and swore she should be married; or if she would not, he would
>have his Fee, and register the Marriage from that Night. The Lady, to
>recover her Liberty, left her Ring as a Pledge that she would meet him the
>morrow Night.
>
>
>
>Gentleman?Ts Magazine, Vol. 5 Feb 1735, p. 93

At 10:25 PM 3/13/2005 +0000, you wrote:
>The relevant section of the Gentleman's Magazine was where they reprinted
>interesting items from other publications, in this case The Grub-Street
>Journal.
>If you're interested in using the GM as a source, you should know about the
>excellent site:
>'Attributions of Authorship in the Gentleman's Magazine, 1731-1868: An
>Electronic Union List' at
>http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/browse-gmall?id=GM1731
>The entry for this 'Ballad Singing' piece is as follows:
>Vol. 3 (1733) :pp. 252.. A:. Letter originally signed "J. Ralph" from the
>Grub-Street Journal , No. 178 (24 May 1733). James Ralph [?]. [ Orig.
>"Ralph" ]
>
>Steve RoudThank you kindly,
Lisa

Did my posting of words to Tushielaw (complete except for last verse)
get through a week ago? It coincided with a server breakdown, and I got
no response from you all ... so I'm wondering if I should repost.

I got the words.  Thanks.        Marge -----Original Message-----
From: Forum for ballad scholars [mailto:[unmask]]On
Behalf Of Jean Lepley
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 9:36 AM
To: [unmask]
Subject: TushielawDid my posting of words to Tushielaw (complete except for last verse)
get through a week ago? It coincided with a server breakdown, and I got
no response from you all ... so I'm wondering if I should repost.

Anybody have a current address for Joe Hickerson?Thanks,
A. Miller
Woodside, CA

I am putting together a course on imposters and impersonators that will
combine film, literature, and folklore.  I?d welcome fellow folklorists?
favorite picks of traditional stories of tricksters, shape-shifters,
changelings, and other characters whose identities are similarly
ambiguous.  I?d also appreciate any recommendations of in-print paperback
collections of such tales.  Many thanks.Carol Burke
Department of English
University of California, Irvine

Favorite:  Thomas the Rhymer... a documented historical figure said to have the "sight".  Katharine Briggs "Encyclopedia of Fairies" has an entry on this Englishman, but a quick check in the anthology "Bonny Bunch of Roses" sets the scene much more clearly with a 20-some verse ballad version of Thomas' kidnapping by the fairies.  Lovely melody too.Also see cran's recording ( off the "lover's ghost" album) of the Stolen Bride- straight out of classic English fairy lore- another kidnapping, a verse on fairy food, complete with a complicated ritual needed to release the captured woman form the underground prison.So many good ones here, but these two come to mind first.Keep us posted on this one!LizIn New Hampshire where the snow comes every three days.-----Original Message-----
From: Forum for ballad scholars [mailto:[unmask]]On
Behalf Of Carol Burke
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 10:50 AM
To: [unmask]
Subject: I am putting together a course on imposters and impersonators that will
combine film, literature, and folklore.  I'd welcome fellow folklorists'
favorite picks of traditional stories of tricksters, shape-shifters,
changelings, and other characters whose identities are similarly
ambiguous.  I'd also appreciate any recommendations of in-print paperback
collections of such tales.  Many thanks.Carol Burke
Department of English
University of California, Irvine

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Carol:I would suggest that no course  that dealt with imposters would be complete without at least a casual look at the folktales) involving "The Bedtrick," for which see Wendy Doniger's book of the same name, a world-wide survey of tales of sex and masquerade.Ed----- Original Message -----
From: Elizabeth Hummel <[unmask]>
Date: Monday, March 14, 2005 8:21 am
Subject: Re: rewards and fairies> Favorite:  Thomas the Rhymer... a documented historical figure said
> to have the "sight".  Katharine Briggs "Encyclopedia of Fairies"
> has an entry on this Englishman, but a quick check in the anthology
> "Bonny Bunch of Roses" sets the scene much more clearly with a 20-
> some verse ballad version of Thomas' kidnapping by the fairies.
> Lovely melody too.
>
> Also see cran's recording ( off the "lover's ghost" album) of the
> Stolen Bride- straight out of classic English fairy lore- another
> kidnapping, a verse on fairy food, complete with a complicated
> ritual needed to release the captured woman form the underground
> prison.
> So many good ones here, but these two come to mind first.
>
> Keep us posted on this one!
>
> Liz
>
> In New Hampshire where the snow comes every three days.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Forum for ballad scholars [[unmask]]On
> Behalf Of Carol Burke
> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 10:50 AM
> To: [unmask]
> Subject:
>
>
> I am putting together a course on imposters and impersonators that
> willcombine film, literature, and folklore.  I'd welcome fellow
> folklorists'favorite picks of traditional stories of tricksters,
> shape-shifters,
> changelings, and other characters whose identities are similarly
> ambiguous.  I'd also appreciate any recommendations of in-print
> paperbackcollections of such tales.  Many thanks.
>
> Carol Burke
> Department of English
> University of California, Irvine
>

Joe Hickerson
43 Philadelphia Ave.
Takoma Park, Md. 20912301-270-1107Tell him Ed sent you.  And say hello for me.Ed----- Original Message -----
From: Adam Miller <[unmask]>
Date: Monday, March 14, 2005 7:36 am
Subject: Address for Joe Hickerson> Anybody have a current address for Joe Hickerson?
>
> Thanks,
> A. Miller
> Woodside, CA
>

43 Philadelphia Avenue, Takoma Park, MD or [unmask]Anne Dhu McLucas, Ph.D.
Professor of Music
Chair of Music History and Ethnomusicology
University of Oregon------------------
> Anybody have a current address for Joe Hickerson?
>
> Thanks,
> A. Miller
> Woodside, CA
>

On Mon, Mar 14, 2005 at 07:36:35AM -0800, Adam Miller wrote:
> Anybody have a current address for Joe Hickerson?
 Yes.  You have but to look at any of his Songfinder
columns in Sing Out! -- Aloha, Lani<||> Lani Herrmann * [unmask] (or: [unmask])
<||> 5621 Sierra Ave. * Richmond, CA 94805 * (510) 237-7360