I can assure you that we Australians are not buried in snow. It's
bloody hot down here! AND it's Australia Dat so BBQs reign supreme.
Warren FaheyOn 26/01/2005, at 3:10 PM, Dolores Nichols wrote:> Hi!
>
>         Hope that everyone is well and not buried in snow! Here is the
> weekly list.
>
>         SONGSTERS
>
>         6506700782 - The Yellow Kid Hogan's Alley Songster, 1897,
> $49.99
> (ends Jan-26-05 18:39:25 PST)
>
>         3953879542 - True Blue Republican Campaign Songs, 1892, $39.99
> (ends Jan-27-05 18:20:23 PST)
>
>         6507217983 - Harrigan and Hart's little green leaf in our bible
> songster, 1879, $5 (ends Jan-29-05 11:15:49 PST)
>
>         7129787470 - merchant's gargling oil Songster, 1884, $5 (ends
> Jan-29-05 11:16:25 PST)
>
>         3954147278 - howe's great london combination Songster, 1874,
> $31
> (ends Jan-29-05 11:18:39 PST)
>
>         3954147505 - frank a. robbins clowns dream and fate palmistry
> co.
> songster, 1888, $26 (ends Jan-29-05 11:19:36 PST)
>
>         3954147829 - barnum and london circus songster, 1880?, $5 (ends
> Jan-29-05 11:21:30 PST)
>
>         MISCELLANEOUS
>
>         4068817711 - The Broomfield Wager by Poacher, LP, 1975, 8.50
> GBP
> (ends Jan-26-05 05:09:53 PST)
>
>         4070239441 - Bawdy Blues, LP, test pressing, $9.99 (ends
> Feb-01-05
> 04:30:43 PST)
>
>         SONGBOOKS, ETC.
>
>         3777350984 - KERR'S BUCHAN BOTHY BALLADS, books 1 & 2, $4.99
> (ends
> Jan-27-05 06:22:22 PST)
>
>         3953789823 - Mountain and Western Ballads As Sung By Jim and
> Jane
> and their Western Vagabonds, 1940?, $4 (ends Jan-27-05 10:15:11 PST)
>
>         4521596726 -  BIBLIOGRAPHY OF EARLY SECULAR AMERICAN MUSIC
> [18th
> Century] by Sonneck, 1945, $24.99 (ends Jan-27-05 18:39:33 PST)
>
>         7949387966 - THE COMMON MUSE-AN ANTHOLOGY OF POPULAR BRITISH
> BALLAD
> POETRY 15th-20th CENTURY by de Sola Pinto & Rodway, 1957, 0.99 GBP
> (ends
> Jan-28-05 10:08:40 PST)
>
>         7948907358 - A Book of British Ballads by Brimley Johnson,
> 1939,
> 4.99 GBP (ends Jan-29-05 03:14:23 PST)
>
>         4521209459 - Songs of The Fell Pack, 1971, 4.99 GBP (ends
> Jan-29-05
> 10:42:55 PST)
>
>         3777804244 - 3 Bradley Kincaid songbooks, 1929-193?, $4.49
> (ends
> Jan-29-05 11:10:08 PST)
>
>         4521962909 - Favourite Bush Ballads by Stewart & Keesing, 1977
> edition, 0.01 GBP (ends Jan-29-05 11:21:55 PST)
>
>         4522045388 - Folk Ballads of English-Speaking World by
> Friedman,
> 1964, $3 (ends Jan-29-05 14:36:07 PST)
>
>         6944280675 - Peters Webb Music Book, 1849-1854, $15.50 (ends
> Jan-29-05 18:30:42 PST)
>
>         6944286827 - Popular Songs of Ireland by Croker, 1886, $0.99
> (ends
> Jan-29-05 19:56:04 PST)
>
>         4522180912 - Folksongs & Folklore of South Uist by Shaw, 1977,
> $20
> (ends Jan-30-05 07:50:26 PST)
>
>         6944385914 - Ancient & Modern Scottish Songs, Heroic Ballads by
> Herd, volume 1, 1869, $10 (ends Jan-30-05 12:15:35 PST)
>
>         6943946909 - Negro Folk Songs as Sung by Lead Belly by Lomax,
> 1936,
> $27 (ends Jan-30-05 13:10:08 PST)
>
>         4521515144 - Border Ballads by Tomson, 2.99 GBP (ends Jan-30-05
> 13:11:54 PST)
>
>         3954411274 - COUNTRY SONGS OF VERMONT by Flanders, 1937, $2.99
> (ends Jan-30-05 16:18:33 PST)
>
>         3778135209 - Lonesome Tunes Folk Songs From The Kentucky
> Mountains
> by Wyman, 1916, $1.95 (ends Jan-30-05 16:54:09 PST)
>
>         6944463836 - the nut -brown maid, 1.99 GBP (ends Jan-31-05
> 04:50:14
> PST)
>
>         3778310869 - Ballads and songs of World War 1 by Silverman,
> 2.99
> GBP (ends Jan-31-05 12:10:01 PST)
>
>         3778027333 - FOLK SONGS FROM SOMERSET by Sharp, 1906, 5.19 GBP
> (ends Feb-02-05 10:52:46 PST)
>
>         6944510873 - The Oxford Nursery Rhyme Book by Opie, 1960, 4 GBP
> (ends Feb-03-05 12:51:03 PST)
>
>                                 Happy Bidding!
>                                 Dolores
>
> --
> Dolores Nichols                 |
> D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
> Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
>         --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?
>

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

> And that would have sounded like a very strange thing not too many
> years ago!
Funny you should say that. Just today we found a Boston MBTA map of the
various subway lines and on it  is a picture of JFK and the followings:
IRONIC: THE GUY WHO FOUGHT COMMUNISM HAS A STOP ON THE RED LINE..GeorgeGeorge F Madaus
Professor Emeritus
Boston College
On Jan 26, 2005, at 12:30 AM, Becky Nankivell wrote:>> From the latest e-Bay list --
>
> 3953879542 - True Blue Republican Campaign Songs, 1892, $39.99
>
> Things change, don't they -- if there was such a book today, would it
> be "True Red Republican Campaign Songs"? And that would have sounded
> like a very strange thing not too many years ago!
>
> ;-)
>
> ~ Becky Nankivell
> Tucson, Arizona

Here's a modern transportation ballad inspired by a conversation between
George Borrow and a gypsy girl.THE WHALE'S PATHYou rambling lads of fortune, I'll have you to take warning
I bid some kind attention to these words from my hand
For if you are deceitful or snatch at what is needful
They'll send you by the whale's path to the foreign landIf you're disrespectful to the friends of law and order
Or if you cross a border to hunt for what is banned
Imperious gamekeepers, and proud land-owning judges
Will send you by the gull's bath to the foreign landThere you'll get no wages, and there you'll sleep in cages
And you'll receive hard knocks as you labour by command
And all your lamentations in that barbarious nation
Will never bring you home again from the foreign landSo plan your deeds with caution, take heed for who is watching
Keep your own wise counsel, and trust not any man
For any act or labour, if looked on with disfavour
Might send you by the whale's path to the foreign landEwan McVicar, 
84 High Street
Linlithgow, 
West Lothian
Scotland
EH49 7AQtel 01506 847935

Ewan:  Thanks for the song.  Have you ever wandered across the Irish
Archives' interactive transportation database?It's available here:http://www.nationalarchives.ie/topics/transportation/search01.html"seven long years for the stealing of a comb", etc.Regards,Dan

Dan:
Okay, so I typed "ballad" into the search field and got this:The document reference in each entry below is the National Archives of Ireland reference to the original document in the archives. The microfilm reference number refers to the set of microfilms presented to Australia in 1988.
Record 1 of 1SURNAME: MORONEY                            OTHER NAMES: U
    AGE:   0                 SEX: F               ALIAS:PLACE OF TRIAL:                                   TRIAL DATE:
PLACE OF IMPRISONMENT: Carlow                    DOCUMENT DATE: 02/06/1831        CRIME DESCRIPTION: Singing during the elections
        SENTENCE:
        SHIP:PETITIONER: Thomas Moroney               RELATIONSHIP: HusbandDOCUMENT REFERENCES:  PPC 3595
MICROFILM REFERENCES:
COMMENTS:
Petitioner states his wife is a Ballad Singer.  Petitioning against her prosect-
ion.Apparently, one could get transported for singing (badly?) .  This unfortunate seems to have escaped  shipment to Australia's dark shores.Ed----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Cummins <[unmask]>
Date: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 9:07 am
Subject: Re: Who said I'm not revolting ?> Ewan:  Thanks for the song.  Have you ever wandered across the Irish
> Archives' interactive transportation database?
>
> It's available here:
>
> http://www.nationalarchives.ie/topics/transportation/search01.html
>
> "seven long years for the stealing of a comb", etc.
>
> Regards,
>
> Dan
>

Ed:Right you are...  I believe he's the bloke wut wrote "The Wild Rover":-)

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan Lighter" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: 26 January 2005 18:39
Subject: Re: Who said I'm not revolting ?> Maybe she was singing about "Granuaile" or something.
>
> I mean, her voice couldn't have been that bad.
>
> Could it?
>
> JLThere's no mention of a sentence, so perhaps they just let her go. There's also a record of a
street-singer transported for 7 years (Denis Ring, 1827) but his conviction was for vagrancy.Malcolm Douglas

On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 10:30:05PM -0700, Becky Nankivell wrote:
> Date:         Tue, 25 Jan 2005 22:30:05 -0700
> From:         Becky Nankivell <[unmask]>
> Subject: changing colors
> To:           [unmask]
>
> From the latest e-Bay list --
>
> 3953879542 - True Blue Republican Campaign Songs, 1892, $39.99
>
> Things change, don't they -- if there was such a book today, would it be
> "True Red Republican Campaign Songs"? And that would have sounded like a
> very strange thing not too many years ago!
>
> ;-)For further irony, the Democratic songster for that same campaign was
entitled : Red Hot Democratic Campaign Songs                                DoloresP.S. It wasn't on the Ebay list because someone grabbed it with a Buy
Now.--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

Oh Hell--
It wasn't /that long /ago that the Solid South was Democratic. And
Vermont was solidly Republican.
dick greenhausDolores Nichols wrote:>On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 10:30:05PM -0700, Becky Nankivell wrote:
>
>
>>Date:         Tue, 25 Jan 2005 22:30:05 -0700
>>From:         Becky Nankivell <[unmask]>
>>Subject: changing colors
>>To:           [unmask]
>>
>>From the latest e-Bay list --
>>
>>3953879542 - True Blue Republican Campaign Songs, 1892, $39.99
>>
>>Things change, don't they -- if there was such a book today, would it be
>>"True Red Republican Campaign Songs"? And that would have sounded like a
>>very strange thing not too many years ago!
>>
>>;-)
>>
>>
>
>For further irony, the Democratic songster for that same campaign was
>entitled : Red Hot Democratic Campaign Songs
>
>                                Dolores
>
>P.S. It wasn't on the Ebay list because someone grabbed it with a Buy
>Now.
>
>--
>Dolores Nichols                 |
>D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
>Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
>        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?
>
>
>
>
>
>

Thanks, Clifford. I just found a tombstone photo.
Norm----- Original Message -----
From: "Clifford J OCHELTREE" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: Delta Hicks> I believe it's 6 Nov. 1996
>
> Norm Cohen wrote:
>
> >Does anyone have year of death for her?
> >Thanks,
> >Norm Cohen
> >
> >
> >
>

Malcolm:Very interesting.  I wonder just how many ballads and tunes that unfortunate took with him to Oz.Ed----- Original Message -----
From: Malcolm Douglas <[unmask]>
Date: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 11:11 am
Subject: Re: Who said I'm not revolting ?> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jonathan Lighter" <[unmask]>
> To: <[unmask]>
> Sent: 26 January 2005 18:39
> Subject: Re: Who said I'm not revolting ?
>
>
> > Maybe she was singing about "Granuaile" or something.
> >
> > I mean, her voice couldn't have been that bad.
> >
> > Could it?
> >
> > JL
>
>
> There's no mention of a sentence, so perhaps they just let her go.
> There's also a record of a
> street-singer transported for 7 years (Denis Ring, 1827) but his
> conviction was for vagrancy.
>
> Malcolm Douglas
>

"they buried him in the sand"
             -many versions of "John Henry"buried him in a "cemetery" or "burying ground"
             -several versionstook John Henry up the mountain
             -one or two versionstook him on that "long white road"
             -one versionhe was, or they buried him, between two mountains
             -two versions"Every locomotive came rolling by / Says 'There lies a steel driving man.'"
              -many versions (something similar)Sand Ridge Cemetery, Shelby County, Alabama, is in "Back Holler,"
east of Dunnavant. Sand Ridge lies between Oak and Coosa Mountains,
parallel southwest-to-northeast running ridges. It is a distinct
ridge itself, sandy on top, that serves as the northeast boundary of,
a kind of "plug" for, Dunnavant Valley.A group of distinguished folks interested in Shelby County history
met my wife and I in Leeds and set out to look for John Henry's grave
there on Friday afternoon, 21Jan2005.In the beginning, at its west end, Sand Ridge Road is now paved, but
after a while the pavement stops and the road is both sandy and white. From Sand Ridge Cemetery, there is a clear view across a valley to
the old C & W RR line outside the east portal of Oak Mountain Tunnel.
An engineer could indeed look across to Sand Ridge and say, "There
lies a steel driving man."I had expected (!) to find a nice marble tombstone reading "John
Henry Dabney ... Here lies a steel driving man." I thought that
Captain Frederick Yeamans Dabney (in charge of construction of the C
& W in 1887-88) might have provided that for his old friend (John
Henry Dabney) who died so far from home. Sadly, I was disappointed.We did find what appears to be an unmarked grave *outside* the fence
bounding the cemetery. One reason for a grave adjacent to, but
outside of, a white cemetery is that it belongs to an African
American. Sand Ridge Cemetery is populated mostly with the Isbell and
Howard families, both white. The outside grave could be John Henry's.Glenn Nivens reminded us that some versions of "John Henry" state
that he was buried "with his hammer in his hand." Since he is
supposed to have been a famous steel driver in the community, that is
certainly a logical possibility. Perhaps it is customary for skilled
people to be buried with a tool.There was some talk about bringing ground-penetrating radar equipment
to the site to see what the contents of the "outside" grave look
like. That lies in the future, but it appears to be something that
can be arranged.Sand Ridge Cemetery remains a viable possibility for the site of John
Henry's grave.
--
john garst    [unmask]

Last weekend I was given a copy of part of an article, "Mountains of
Dunnavant isolate,...," from the Shelby County Reporter, Thursday,
October 21, 1982.  The first sentence is, "Dunnavant is defined by
the mountains."  Two of the mountains in question are the parallel,
southwest-to-northeast running ridges, Oak and Coosa Mountains,
through which the Columbus & Western RR put tunnels in 1887-88.
These are the mountains that may be referred to in versions of "John
Henry" that place him "'tween them mountains" or say "Let two
mountains be his grave stones."  "The 800-foot ridges of Sand
Mountain partially cork the valley some five miles northeast of the
hub near the St. Clair line...Mountains here, mountains there.  In
Dunnavant, mountains are nearly everywhere."  Actually, they are not
*in* Dunnavant, they define it by marking the boundaries of Dunnavant
Valley."A large drill bit, embedded for years in the rock floor of Oak
Tunnel, breeds the local legend that this is where the famous John
Henry met his death while racing a spiking machine.  True or not,
[82-year old Earl] Bowdoin swears that as a kid he saw the jutting
end of the bit before it finally disappeared."  A photograph of this
drill, sticking up in the rock outside the east portal of Oak Tunnel,
appeared in the Central of Georgia Magazine in 1930.According to L. W. "Lonnie" Adams, at 96 believed to be the oldest
man in Dunnavant in 1982, "My father used to cut timber for the steam
drills they used on those tunnels."This is the first indication I've found that steam drills were used
in the construction of Oak or Coosa Tunnel.News accounts from July, 1887, speak of a layer of very hard rock
being struck when the crew was about halfway through Coosa Tunnel,
slowing the work.  John Henry's race with a steam drill is supposed
to have been on Tuesday, September 20, 1887.  It is supposed to have
been arranged as a bet between a representative of a company selling
steam drills and Captain Frederick Yeamans Dabney, Chief Engineer and
detailed construction supervisor for the C & W.  When the
"contractor" (presumably Captain Dabney) told the steam drill
salesman "that he had a Negro who could be his damned old drill any
day" (quote from C. C. Spencer), "the company owning the drill
offered to put it in for nothing if this man could drill more rock
with the hammer than he could with his drill.  And, so the contractor
(Shea & Dabney) accepted the proposition."The timing certainly fits - hard rock struck in June or July, steam
drill being demonstrated in September - perhaps Captain Dabney was
exploring the use of steam drills to try to keep the project from
falling too far behind.  Steam drills or not, Coosa Tunnel was
scheduled to have been completed by about the end of 1887 but in fact
it was not completed until June, 1888.  Oak Tunnel had been completed
earlier, but I don't know just when.Anyhow, it is plausible that steam drills were introduced, or more
added, to the project after the hard rock was struck in the middle of
Coosa Tunnel.
--
john garst    [unmask]

John:The evidence piles up.  Great work.Ed----- Original Message -----
From: John Garst <[unmask]>
Date: Thursday, January 27, 2005 12:01 pm
Subject: Steam drills at Dunnavant tunnels> Last weekend I was given a copy of part of an article, "Mountains of
> Dunnavant isolate,...," from the Shelby County Reporter, Thursday,
> October 21, 1982.  The first sentence is, "Dunnavant is defined by
> the mountains."  Two of the mountains in question are the parallel,
> southwest-to-northeast running ridges, Oak and Coosa Mountains,
> through which the Columbus & Western RR put tunnels in 1887-88.
> These are the mountains that may be referred to in versions of "John
> Henry" that place him "'tween them mountains" or say "Let two
> mountains be his grave stones."  "The 800-foot ridges of Sand
> Mountain partially cork the valley some five miles northeast of the
> hub near the St. Clair line...Mountains here, mountains there.  In
> Dunnavant, mountains are nearly everywhere."  Actually, they are not
> *in* Dunnavant, they define it by marking the boundaries of Dunnavant
> Valley.
>
> "A large drill bit, embedded for years in the rock floor of Oak
> Tunnel, breeds the local legend that this is where the famous John
> Henry met his death while racing a spiking machine.  True or not,
> [82-year old Earl] Bowdoin swears that as a kid he saw the jutting
> end of the bit before it finally disappeared."  A photograph of this
> drill, sticking up in the rock outside the east portal of Oak Tunnel,
> appeared in the Central of Georgia Magazine in 1930.
>
> According to L. W. "Lonnie" Adams, at 96 believed to be the oldest
> man in Dunnavant in 1982, "My father used to cut timber for the steam
> drills they used on those tunnels."
>
> This is the first indication I've found that steam drills were used
> in the construction of Oak or Coosa Tunnel.
>
> News accounts from July, 1887, speak of a layer of very hard rock
> being struck when the crew was about halfway through Coosa Tunnel,
> slowing the work.  John Henry's race with a steam drill is supposed
> to have been on Tuesday, September 20, 1887.  It is supposed to have
> been arranged as a bet between a representative of a company selling
> steam drills and Captain Frederick Yeamans Dabney, Chief Engineer and
> detailed construction supervisor for the C & W.  When the
> "contractor" (presumably Captain Dabney) told the steam drill
> salesman "that he had a Negro who could be his damned old drill any
> day" (quote from C. C. Spencer), "the company owning the drill
> offered to put it in for nothing if this man could drill more rock
> with the hammer than he could with his drill.  And, so the contractor
> (Shea & Dabney) accepted the proposition."
>
> The timing certainly fits - hard rock struck in June or July, steam
> drill being demonstrated in September - perhaps Captain Dabney was
> exploring the use of steam drills to try to keep the project from
> falling too far behind.  Steam drills or not, Coosa Tunnel was
> scheduled to have been completed by about the end of 1887 but in fact
> it was not completed until June, 1888.  Oak Tunnel had been completed
> earlier, but I don't know just when.
>
> Anyhow, it is plausible that steam drills were introduced, or more
> added, to the project after the hard rock was struck in the middle of
> Coosa Tunnel.
> --
> john garst    [unmask]
>

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

>Things are becoming even more interesting.  John, is there a single
>collected version of "John Henry" that seems to combine several of
>your elements, or two or three texts from Alabama, Georgia, or
>Mississippi that combine to give the picture you develop?
>
>If "between the mountains," "Cap'n Tommy," "buried him in the sand,"
>"took him to the white house" showed up in a cluster, the case would
>move from "conceivable" to "very likely." You see what I'm saying.
>
>JLThe version collected by J. J. Niles contains both the "man in
Chattanooga" and the "two mountains be his grave stones" lines.Rich Amerson has "'tween them mountains."The Blankenship broadside has John Henry's woman catching that "No. 4
train" to go "where John Henry fell dead."  In 1900 IC No. 4 ran
north from Crystal Springs, MS, the right start for a trip to
northern Alabama.  Crystal Springs was the home of Captain Dabney
and, apparently, John Henry Dabney.  Both C. C. Spencer and and
Alabama woman interviewed in 1955 say that both Captain Dabney and
John Henry were from Mississippi.  The Blankenship broadside also has
John Henry being buried in "that new burying ground."  We don't yet
know exactly when Sand Ridge Cemetery, Dunnavant, Alabama, was
established.Leon R. Harris has "John Henry's cap'n Tommy / V'ginny gave him
birth" - Captain Dabney was born in Virginia.  Harris also describes
Captain Tommy's bet on John Henry against a steam drill in terms
similar to those of C. C. Spencer.  "Dinnah's done when Lucy pulls
th' c'od" fits with Spencer's testimony that John Henry's wife
cooked.  "Sun shined hot an' burnin' / Wer'n't no breeze at-tall /
Sweat ran down like watah down a hill / That day John Henry let his
hammah fall" could easily be a mid-September day in Alabama (Sep 20,
according to Spencer).Onah L. Spencer includes "Some say he's from Alabam" (on the way to
claiming John Henry for "East Virginia" and Big Bend Tunnel).  Also,
"women in the West...flagged that east bound train" to go "where John
Henry dropped dead" - Mississippi, the Dabneys' home, is west of
Alabama.  "They took John Henry to the White House / And buried him
in the san' / And every locomotive come roarin' by / Says there lays
that steel driving man" - this verse combines "white," "san'," and
the idea that John Henry's burial site could be seen from the RR.Gid Tanner/Riley Puckett:  "Took John Henry to the white house /
Rolled him in the sand"Melvin T. Harrison: "Well, they took John Henry to the new burying
ground / And they covered him up in the sand"Miss Muriel Belton/her mother: "women in the West...caught the
east-bound train" to go "where John Henry fell dead."Uncle Dave Macon: "People out West...caught that East-bound train" to
go "where John Henry's dead."William G. Parmenter:  "I can make mo' money on the A. C. and L. /
Than I can on the Georgia Line" - Another version, collected by Peter
Brannon in Alabama, says that John Henry was on the "Central of
Georgia Rail Road."  Of course, these stand in contrast to the
multitude of versions with "Big Bend Tunnel on the C & O Road."  The
relationship of "C & W" to "C & O" raises a suspicion that the former
could have been the original.Welby Toomey: "They took John Henry to the white house / And laid him
in the sand"Chicago, IL: "John Henry hammered in the mountains / Way in the north
end of town" - This makes sense for Alabama if the "town" was
Dunnavant.  For West Virginia and Big Bend Tunnel, I don't think
there is a town for which this makes much sense.  Talcott and Hinton
are east and west, respectively, of the tunnel.Harvey Hicks: "John Henry died on a Tuesday" - C. C. Spencer said
September 20, which was a Tuesday in 1887.  "...east bound train"
again.  "They took John Henry to the white house / They put his
remains in the sand"J. L. McKnight: "John Henry's captain stepped on a rock / A piece of
slate was falling down" - There is slate in the Dunnavant vicinity, I
don't know about Big Bend.  "Took young Henry to the white house /
Rolled him in sand"Sallie Flannery" "The girls in the west / When they heard of John
Henry's death / They could not stay at home / 'I am going where John
Henry used to roam.'"W. S. Barnett: "They took poor Johnny to the steep hillside" - Sand
Ridge Cemetery is atop a steep hillside.Andy Anderson: "They took John Henry to the white house / and put him
in the sand"J. W. Washington: "John Henry was born in Mobile, Alabama" - I don't
believe this, but here, at least, is an Alabama connection.  "I can
make more money on the L. and N. / Than I can on the C & O" - if "C &
O" were really "C & W," this would make perfect sense, since the L &
N was active in Alabama in 1887.  I'm not sure whether or not the L &
N had a presence near Big Bend at the time (1871) the C & O was under
construction.  "They carried John Henry down the smoky road / And put
him on that long white road / When they brought that poor boy back to
town / He was lying on his cooling board" - "smoky" from gray slate?
- "white" from sand or limestone?C. J. Wallace: "They took John Henry to the white house / They rode
him in a van" !Tennessee Spears: "Monday morning on the east bound train / O Lord,
John Henry's dead"B. A. Hoover: "They took John Henry to the white house / And laid him
in the stand" !V. E. Gregory: "that Big Band Tunnel on the C & O Road"  This
suggests another little exercise in word mutation.  In Dunnavant, Oak
Mountain Tunnel is the "short" tunnel, Coosa Mountain Tunnel is the
"long" tunnel; Oak Mountain is the "little" mountain, Coosa Mountain
is the "big" mountain.  Oak Mountain gave no problem, evidently, in
boring, but the completion of Coosa Tunnel was delayed by about 6
months by a layer of very hard rock, slowing drilling.  Thus, Coosa
Tunnel could have been "that big, bad tunnel."  "big bad tunnel" ->
"big band tunnel" -> "Big Bend Tunnel"  This combines with "C & W" ->
"C & O" !Earl Miller: "people out west" caught that "east bound train" to go
"where John Henry's dead"This doesn't exactly answer your question, but it collects about
everything I know of in ballad texts that might be interpreting to
favor Alabama.  Some of the discrimination is pretty weak, but there
is a good bit of it.  This is to be added to written testimony of C.
C. Spencer (which is supported in many particulars by documentation),
F. P. Barker, and Glendora Cannon Cummings, which is partially
supported by Jamaican testimony about "Dabney."  In addition, to this
day people around Dunnavant, Alabama, will tell you that they've
always heard that John Henry died there.John--
john garst    [unmask]

My recent obsession, which has no doubt bored most, has had to do with the
question:
    did Colonel Blacker write the "July the first, in Oldbridge town"
version of"The Battle of the Boyne"?
 Previous notes have looked at Sparling and Duffy, the latter writing in
1845 in _The Ballad Poetry of Ireland_ about the "July the first" version
says "the  date of the present song is unknown ... [but] its plainness,
vigour, and minute details, argue it to be of an early date."  My contention
has been that Colonel Blacker wrote a "Battle of the Boyne", quoted by
O'Conor in _Old Time Songs and Ballads of Ireland_, but not the one
beginning "July the first ..."
Zimmerman, in  _Songs of Irish Rebellion_, dates his text for "Freedom
Triumphant" to 1796, at which time Colonel Blacker would have been 19 years
old.  He makes the argument that the first four lines of that text are
"borrowed from the famous Orange ballad 'The Battle of the Boyne.'"  The
lines of "Freedom Triumphant" in question are
    The fourteenth of July, in Paris town,
    There was a glorious battle,
    Where many a tyrant lay on the ground
    By cannons that did rattle
"borrowed from"
    July the first, in Oldbridge town,
    There was a grievous battle,
    Where many a man lay on the ground,
    By cannons that did rattle.
If Zimmermann's date holds up it seems unlikely that 19-year old Blacker
shall have written a ballad well enough known to have been the source.Ben Schwartz

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Good People:I am struck  by Jonathan's effort to adapt the the so-called scientific method to the humanities, that is, to REPLICATE
Garst's study/hypothesis re: the locale of "John Henry."First of all, there are no new facts other than those Garst has put forward over the last months.  Does replication require a new set of facts?  Or merely re-proving Garst's argument?I would remind the readers/members of ballad -l that  ours is a humanity.  It does not nicely conform to the rules of replication and/or repetition we know from the so-called "hard" sciences.   All we can do, as ballad scholars, is put forth the preponderance  of evidence.  And John has unearthed a helluva lot more than has anyone else on the quintessential American ballad "John Henry."Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Lighter <[unmask]>
Date: Saturday, January 29, 2005 8:56 am
Subject: Re: Steam drills at Dunnavant tunnels> Thank you so much, John.  Odds are - again a priori - that many or
> most of these are coincidental, but taken as a whole they surely
> demand further attention. Your textual experiment begs for
> replication, in this case a meticulous revisitation by another
> "John Henry" scholar with no ax to grind. I'm much impressed by
> your diligence and results.
>
> Jon
>
> John Garst <[unmask]> wrote:
> >Things are becoming even more interesting. John, is there a single
> >collected version of "John Henry" that seems to combine several of
> >your elements, or two or three texts from Alabama, Georgia, or
> >Mississippi that combine to give the picture you develop?
> >
> >If "between the mountains," "Cap'n Tommy," "buried him in the sand,"
> >"took him to the white house" showed up in a cluster, the case would
> >move from "conceivable" to "very likely." You see what I'm saying.
> >
> >JL
>
> The version collected by J. J. Niles contains both the "man in
> Chattanooga" and the "two mountains be his grave stones" lines.
>
> Rich Amerson has "'tween them mountains."
>
> The Blankenship broadside has John Henry's woman catching that "No. 4
> train" to go "where John Henry fell dead." In 1900 IC No. 4 ran
> north from Crystal Springs, MS, the right start for a trip to
> northern Alabama. Crystal Springs was the home of Captain Dabney
> and, apparently, John Henry Dabney. Both C. C. Spencer and and
> Alabama woman interviewed in 1955 say that both Captain Dabney and
> John Henry were from Mississippi. The Blankenship broadside also has
> John Henry being buried in "that new burying ground." We don't yet
> know exactly when Sand Ridge Cemetery, Dunnavant, Alabama, was
> established.
>
> Leon R. Harris has "John Henry's cap'n Tommy / V'ginny gave him
> birth" - Captain Dabney was born in Virginia. Harris also describes
> Captain Tommy's bet on John Henry against a steam drill in terms
> similar to those of C. C. Spencer. "Dinnah's done when Lucy pulls
> th' c'od" fits with Spencer's testimony that John Henry's wife
> cooked. "Sun shined hot an' burnin' / Wer'n't no breeze at-tall /
> Sweat ran down like watah down a hill / That day John Henry let his
> hammah fall" could easily be a mid-September day in Alabama (Sep 20,
> according to Spencer).
>
> Onah L. Spencer includes "Some say he's from Alabam" (on the way to
> claiming John Henry for "East Virginia" and Big Bend Tunnel). Also,
> "women in the West...flagged that east bound train" to go "where John
> Henry dropped dead" - Mississippi, the Dabneys' home, is west of
> Alabama. "They took John Henry to the White House / And buried him
> in the san' / And every locomotive come roarin' by / Says there lays
> that steel driving man" - this verse combines "white," "san'," and
> the idea that John Henry's burial site could be seen from the RR.
>
> Gid Tanner/Riley Puckett: "Took John Henry to the white house /
> Rolled him in the sand"
>
> Melvin T. Harrison: "Well, they took John Henry to the new burying
> ground / And they covered him up in the sand"
>
> Miss Muriel Belton/her mother: "women in the West...caught the
> east-bound train" to go "where John Henry fell dead."
>
> Uncle Dave Macon: "People out West...caught that East-bound train" to
> go "where John Henry's dead."
>
> William G. Parmenter: "I can make mo' money on the A. C. and L. /
> Than I can on the Georgia Line" - Another version, collected by Peter
> Brannon in Alabama, says that John Henry was on the "Central of
> Georgia Rail Road." Of course, these stand in contrast to the
> multitude of versions with "Big Bend Tunnel on the C & O Road." The
> relationship of "C & W" to "C & O" raises a suspicion that the former
> could have been the original.
>
> Welby Toomey: "They took John Henry to the white house / And laid him
> in the sand"
>
> Chicago, IL: "John Henry hammered in the mountains / Way in the north
> end of town" - This makes sense for Alabama if the "town" was
> Dunnavant. For West Virginia and Big Bend Tunnel, I don't think
> there is a town for which this makes much sense. Talcott and Hinton
> are east and west, respectively, of the tunnel.
>
> Harvey Hicks: "John Henry died on a Tuesday" - C. C. Spencer said
> September 20, which was a Tuesday in 1887. "...east bound train"
> again. "They took John Henry to the white house / They put his
> remains in the sand"
>
> J. L. McKnight: "John Henry's captain stepped on a rock / A piece of
> slate was falling down" - There is slate in the Dunnavant vicinity, I
> don't know about Big Bend. "Took young Henry to the white house /
> Rolled him in sand"
>
> Sallie Flannery" "The girls in the west / When they heard of John
> Henry's death / They could not stay at home / 'I am going where John
> Henry used to roam.'"
>
> W. S. Barnett: "They took poor Johnny to the steep hillside" - Sand
> Ridge Cemetery is atop a steep hillside.
>
> Andy Anderson: "They took John Henry to the white house / and put him
> in the sand"
>
> J. W. Washington: "John Henry was born in Mobile, Alabama" - I don't
> believe this, but here, at least, is an Alabama connection. "I can
> make more money on the L. and N. / Than I can on the C & O" - if "C &
> O" were really "C & W," this would make perfect sense, since the L &
> N was active in Alabama in 1887. I'm not sure whether or not the L &
> N had a presence near Big Bend at the time (1871) the C & O was under
> construction. "They carried John Henry down the smoky road / And put
> him on that long white road / When they brought that poor boy back to
> town / He was lying on his cooling board" - "smoky" from gray slate?
> - "white" from sand or limestone?
>
> C. J. Wallace: "They took John Henry to the white house / They rode
> him in a van" !
>
> Tennessee Spears: "Monday morning on the east bound train / O Lord,
> John Henry's dead"
>
> B. A. Hoover: "They took John Henry to the white house / And laid him
> in the stand" !
>
> V. E. Gregory: "that Big Band Tunnel on the C & O Road" This
> suggests another little exercise in word mutation. In Dunnavant, Oak
> Mountain Tunnel is the "short" tunnel, Coosa Mountain Tunnel is the
> "long" tunnel; Oak Mountain is the "little" mountain, Coosa Mountain
> is the "big" mountain. Oak Mountain gave no problem, evidently, in
> boring, but the completion of Coosa Tunnel was delayed by about 6
> months by a layer of very hard rock, slowing drilling. Thus, Coosa
> Tunnel could have been "that big, bad tunnel." "big bad tunnel" ->
> "big band tunnel" -> "Big Bend Tunnel" This combines with "C & W" ->
> "C & O" !
>
> Earl Miller: "people out west" caught that "east bound train" to go
> "where John Henry's dead"
>
> This doesn't exactly answer your question, but it collects about
> everything I know of in ballad texts that might be interpreting to
> favor Alabama. Some of the discrimination is pretty weak, but there
> is a good bit of it. This is to be added to written testimony of C.
> C. Spencer (which is supported in many particulars by documentation),
> F. P. Barker, and Glendora Cannon Cummings, which is partially
> supported by Jamaican testimony about "Dabney." In addition, to this
> day people around Dunnavant, Alabama, will tell you that they've
> always heard that John Henry died there.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> john garst [unmask]
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>

>All we can do, as ballad scholars, is put forth the preponderance
>of evidence.  And John has unearthed a helluva lot more than has
>anyone else on the quintessential American ballad "John Henry."
>
>EdThanks, Ed.  We're still working on it.  I'm encouraged by having
scared up a bunch of people in Shelby County, Alabama, who seem to be
really interested and willing to lend their various kinds of
expertise to the project.John

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

A long time ago (and probably in another galaxy) several list members
asked me to obrain a 2-CD set  of field recordings fro, Australia called
"Sharing the Harvest."  When I ordered them, they were unavailable.Some finally arrived. If you want a set, please E-mail me at
[unmask] or call me at (800) 548-FOLK (3655)They sound good.dick greenhaus

Hi!        While praying for spring to come soon, I found the following on
Ebay:  :-0        SONGSTERS        6944647545 - LOOKOUT MOUNTAIN NO. ONE SONGSTER, 1890, $7.95 (ends
Feb-01-05 18:58:04 PST)        7130800246 - Merchant's Gargling Oil Songster, $6.95 (ends
Feb-02-05 20:35:08 PST)        6944963964 - SWEET SONGSTER, 1854, $20 w/reserve (ends Feb-04-05
14:03:51 PST)        MISCELLANEOUS        6149177838 - Broadside, THE BUSTY SEAM; or , RISE OF COLLIERY DYKES,
1854, $24.95 (ends Feb-01-05 17:30:00 PST)        4070488436 - Bob Hart.Songs from Suffolk, LP, 1973, 3.99 GBP (ends
Feb-02-05 00:31:13 PST)        4071428504 - Granny Riddle's Songs and Ballads, LP, 1977, $7.99
(ends Feb-05-05 18:09:10 PST)        SONGBOOKS, ETC.        3778724015 - Folk Songs from Sussex by Butterworth, 4.20 GBP (ends
Jan-31-05 11:04:13 PST)        6944540540 - ENGLISH SONGS,WITH THEIR ORIGINAL AIRS by Ritson, 3
volumes, 1813 edition, $114.50 (ends Jan-31-05 19:00:54 PST)        3778555765 - Folk Songs of Trinidad and Tobego by Walke, 1.50 GBP
(ends Feb-01-05 14:08:49 PST)        4522852992 - Songs and Ballads from Nova Scotia by Creighton, 1966
Dover edition, $9.99 (ends Feb-01-05 20:11:22 PST)        4522899326 - What Do You Feed Your Donkey On? Rhymes from a Belfast
Childhood by O'Hare, 1978, 1.50 GBP (ends Feb-02-05 06:05:52 PST)        4522934309 - English Folk-Song and Dance by Williams, 1935, $5 (ends
Feb-02-05 09:31:39 PST)        4523030835 - Texas Folk Songs by Owens, 1950, $19.99 (ends
Feb-02-05 18:45:00 PST)        6944586838 - Traditional Ballad Air by Christie, 2 volumes, 1876 &
1881, 10.50 GBP w/reserve (ends Feb-04-05 09:23:06 PST)        3779168997 - Bayou Ballads: Twelve Folk Songs from Louisiana by
Monroe, 1921, $19.99 (ends Feb-04-05 09:58:14 PST)        6944972245 - Minstrels of the Mine Patch by Korson, 1938, $12.99
(ends Feb-04-05 16:08:07 PST)        3779475722 - NEiGHBORS of YESTERDAY by Foster, 1963 edition, $11.50
(ends Feb-05-05 20:56:36 PST)        6944773311 - THE IRISH ROVER, A BALLAD MISCELLANY, 1966, 0.99 GBP
(ends Feb-06-05 01:21:47 PST)        6944773452 - IN DUBLINS FAIR CITY, IRISH BALLADS, 1968, 0.99 GBP
(ends Feb-06-05 01:25:42 PST)        6944773607 - DOWN BY THE GLEN SIDE Songs and Ballads, 1966, 0.99
GBP (ends Feb-06-05 01:30:09 PST)        3778934954 - Personal Choice of Scottish Folksongs and Ballads by
MacColl, 1963, 10.51 GBP (ends Feb-06-05 10:01:05 PST)        6944824404 - FOLK-SONGS OF AMERICA by Gordon, 1938, $39.99 (ends
Feb-06-05 10:19:27 PST)        4523925391 - Norwegian Emigrant Songs and Ballads by Blegen & Ruud,
1979 reprint, $9.99 (ends Feb-06-05 11:17:38 PST)        6945212871 - Ballads & Sea Songs of Newfoundland by Greenleaf,
1968, $20 (ends Feb-06-05 12:47:26 PST)                                Happy Bidding!
                                Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

I apologise for the post to the list...Ewan, please email me as I do not have a current email address for you.Thank you,Debra
--******************************
Debra Cowan - Singer
website: http://www.DebraCowan.com
USA BOOKINGS: (508) 662-9746,
SNAIL-MAIL: P.O. Box 1335, Westborough, MA 01581
UK BOOKINGS: Vivienne Bloomfield   http://www.otheragency.co.uk
RECORDINGS/SALES: Falling Mountain Music (540) 877-2505
http://www.fallingmountain.com
******************************

>But there's more knowledge to be gained. We should try to gain it,
>and it is no criticism of John's work to say that a careful
>review of all of it by yet another brain would be desirable.
>
>And don't worry, it won't be mine. I am fully occupied elsewhere.
>
>JLI say, "The more the merrier!"John

>>But there's more knowledge to be gained. We should try to gain it,
>>and it is no criticism of John's work to say that a careful
>>review of all of it by yet another brain would be desirable.
>>
>>And don't worry, it won't be mine. I am fully occupied elsewhere.
>>
>>JL
>
>I say, "The more the merrier!"And, as far as I can tell, I haven't convinced any die-hard WV
advocates of the "error" of their ways!John

At 02:31 PM 1/31/2005, you wrote:>And, as far as I can tell, I haven't convinced any die-hard WV
>advocates of the "error" of their ways!
>
>
>JohnYou can count me as a partial convert. I did the article on John Henry for
the new blues encyclopedia coming from Routledge, and I did it a year or
two ago, without mention of your research. But recently, I sent them a
revised version that mentions your conclusions prominently. It takes a
while for ideas to penetrate the thick skull!Paul GaronPaul and Beth Garon
Beasley Books (ABAA)
1533 W. Oakdale
Chicago, IL 60657
(773) 472-4528
(773) 472-7857 FAX
http://www.beasleybooks.com

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Dear Dick,I'd be intersted in a) the price but b) mostly how easy it is to
distinguisah WHAT is being sung, as I would be partially obtaining them
for use at university with non-native (if advanced) students.Andydick greenhaus wrote:
>
> A long time ago (and probably in another galaxy) several list members
> asked me to obrain a 2-CD set  of field recordings fro, Australia called
> "Sharing the Harvest."  When I ordered them, they were unavailable.
>
> Some finally arrived. If you want a set, please E-mail me at
> [unmask] or call me at (800) 548-FOLK (3655)
>
> They sound good.
>
> dick greenhaus

Hi-
The 2-CD set costs $25. Recording is good, and the singers (in
Aussie-flavored English) are quite easy to understand.
dick greenhaus
CAMSCO MusicAndy Rouse wrote:>Dear Dick,
>
>I'd be intersted in a) the price but b) mostly how easy it is to
>distinguisah WHAT is being sung, as I would be partially obtaining them
>for use at university with non-native (if advanced) students.
>
>Andy
>
>dick greenhaus wrote:
>
>
>>A long time ago (and probably in another galaxy) several list members
>>asked me to obrain a 2-CD set  of field recordings fro, Australia called
>>"Sharing the Harvest."  When I ordered them, they were unavailable.
>>
>>Some finally arrived. If you want a set, please E-mail me at
>>[unmask] or call me at (800) 548-FOLK (3655)
>>
>>They sound good.
>>
>>dick greenhaus
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

Folks:This update just in from Rhoda Goldstein about her mother:Dear Friends,
   Just a quick update to let you know my mom was finally discharged to the
rehab facility on Saturday evening.  She is eating and breathing on her own
and has considerable use of her upper body.  They are working her hard at
the rehab, from 9am to 4pm every day.  Her spirits continue to be amazing.
She can now talk on the phone after 4:45 pm - - Her phone # is 610-251-4537.
  She is at Bryn Mawr Rehab in Malvern, PA and will probably be there at
least 2-3 weeks.
Take care and thanks for everyone's emails and good wishes.  They keep her
going.
RhodaEdP.S.:  Other papers please copy.

Then you've got yourself a buyer. How do I pay? Cheques are an unknown
quantity and cost more than the amount on them. Do you have an account I
can transfer to? I know Dave Eyre uses something on the internet to
minimse costs, but I've never had occasion myself. Of course, I could
slip the cash in an envelope and hope.Andydick greenhaus wrote:
>
> Hi-
> The 2-CD set costs $25. Recording is good, and the singers (in
> Aussie-flavored English) are quite easy to understand.
> dick greenhaus
> CAMSCO Music
>
> Andy Rouse wrote:
>
> >Dear Dick,
> >
> >I'd be intersted in a) the price but b) mostly how easy it is to
> >distinguisah WHAT is being sung, as I would be partially obtaining them
> >for use at university with non-native (if advanced) students.
> >
> >Andy
> >
> >dick greenhaus wrote:
> >
> >
> >>A long time ago (and probably in another galaxy) several list members
> >>asked me to obrain a 2-CD set  of field recordings fro, Australia called
> >>"Sharing the Harvest."  When I ordered them, they were unavailable.
> >>
> >>Some finally arrived. If you want a set, please E-mail me at
> >>[unmask] or call me at (800) 548-FOLK (3655)
> >>
> >>They sound good.
> >>
> >>dick greenhaus
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >

Hi-
The internet thing is called PayPal; you can access it at paypal.com
I take VISA and Master cards. If you prefer cheques, I'll give you a UK
address to send it to--it's difficult for me to cash cheques in anything
but US dollars.And, of course, I'll need an address to which to send it.dick greenhaus
CAMSCO MusicAndy Rouse wrote:>Then you've got yourself a buyer. How do I pay? Cheques are an unknown
>quantity and cost more than the amount on them. Do you have an account I
>can transfer to? I know Dave Eyre uses something on the internet to
>minimse costs, but I've never had occasion myself. Of course, I could
>slip the cash in an envelope and hope.
>
>Andy
>
>dick greenhaus wrote:
>
>
>>Hi-
>>The 2-CD set costs $25. Recording is good, and the singers (in
>>Aussie-flavored English) are quite easy to understand.
>>dick greenhaus
>>CAMSCO Music
>>
>>Andy Rouse wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Dear Dick,
>>>
>>>I'd be intersted in a) the price but b) mostly how easy it is to
>>>distinguisah WHAT is being sung, as I would be partially obtaining them
>>>for use at university with non-native (if advanced) students.
>>>
>>>Andy
>>>
>>>dick greenhaus wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>A long time ago (and probably in another galaxy) several list members
>>>>asked me to obrain a 2-CD set  of field recordings fro, Australia called
>>>>"Sharing the Harvest."  When I ordered them, they were unavailable.
>>>>
>>>>Some finally arrived. If you want a set, please E-mail me at
>>>>[unmask] or call me at (800) 548-FOLK (3655)
>>>>
>>>>They sound good.
>>>>
>>>>dick greenhaus
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>

And don't forget to go off list before you start exchanging credit
card numbers, or I'll use your account and snap up the collection
myself :-)David EngleAt 12:22 PM -0500 2/2/05, dick greenhaus wrote:
>Hi-
>The internet thing is called PayPal; you can access it at paypal.com
>I take VISA and Master cards. If you prefer cheques, I'll give you a UK
>address to send it to--it's difficult for me to cash cheques in anything
>but US dollars.
>
>And, of course, I'll need an address to which to send it.
>
>dick greenhaus
>CAMSCO Music
>
>Andy Rouse wrote:
>
>>Then you've got yourself a buyer. How do I pay? Cheques are an unknown
>>quantity and cost more than the amount on them. Do you have an account I
>>can transfer to? I know Dave Eyre uses something on the internet to
>>minimse costs, but I've never had occasion myself. Of course, I could
>>slip the cash in an envelope and hope.
>>
>>Andy
>>
>>dick greenhaus wrote:
>>
>>>Hi-
>>>The 2-CD set costs $25. Recording is good, and the singers (in
>>>Aussie-flavored English) are quite easy to understand.
>>>dick greenhaus
>>>CAMSCO Music
>>>
>>>Andy Rouse wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Dear Dick,
>>>>
>>>>I'd be intersted in a) the price but b) mostly how easy it is to
>>>>distinguisah WHAT is being sung, as I would be partially obtaining them
>>>>for use at university with non-native (if advanced) students.
>>>>
>>>>Andy
>>>>
>>>>dick greenhaus wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>A long time ago (and probably in another galaxy) several list members
>>>>>asked me to obrain a 2-CD set  of field recordings fro, Australia called
>>>>>"Sharing the Harvest."  When I ordered them, they were unavailable.
>>>>>
>>>>>Some finally arrived. If you want a set, please E-mail me at
>>>>>[unmask] or call me at (800) 548-FOLK (3655)
>>>>>
>>>>>They sound good.
>>>>>
>>>>>dick greenhaus--
David G. EngleCalifornia State University, Fresno
Tel: (559) 278-2708; FAX: (559) 278-7878
http://www.csufresno.edu/forlang
The Traditional Ballad Index Web Site:
http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/BalladIndexTOC.html

Hi folks:My question about the authorship of the song has been answered. "Dat's de
Way to Spell 'Chicken'" was published as sheet music in 1902, authors Sidney
Perrin and Bob Slater (the latter not always credited). Thanks to Bill
McNeil of the Ozark Folk Center for the info. And yes, the "Ragtime Chicken
Joe" verse is included, a good ten years before "Ragtime Cowboy Joe" was
published.Peace,
Paul

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Hi folks:I'm working on the song "Ninety-Nine Years", as recorded in 1932 by Martin &
Roberts, by Jess Hillard, by Bob and Mac (a two-parter), and by Steve
Ledford & Donald Nicholson w. the Carolina Ramblers String Band. Three
questions.First, plot. (I'm listening to the Ledford/Nicholson recording.) He sits
down to gamble, but cannot concentrate for thinking of the girl he loves who
has run away with another man. Something happens, he's arrested, tried and
sentenced to prison; he has served forty (fourteen?) years already but still
has 99 to go. When the train rolls by carrying the woman he loves, he hangs
his head and cries.All very well. But what did he do? Did he kill her, and the train is
carrying her body? Or did he kill the lover? I can't make out the singer's
words in the crucial verse. If any of you have the Martin & Roberts
recording, perhaps it will shed more light. (There was also an Elton Britt
song, "Answer to 99 Years", which I have not heard.)Second: In 1929 Clarence Green recorded "Ninety-Nine Years in Jail". Same
song? Or a different one? And Jimmie Rodgers did "Ninety-Nine Years Blues".
Any relation?Finally, anyone know of a possible author?Note: This is *not* the "Ninety-nine years is almost for life" song -- at
least, the Ledford/Nicholson recording isn't. Are any of the others?Thanks in advance for any light you can shed!Peace,
Paul

The Callahan Brothers did it as Ninety Nine's My Name, the same song. But
they don't mention the crime, either, although my guess is that he killed
his rival and/or his girl.I remember the Buzz Busby song (Life to Go?) where he meets a dear old
friend and they have drinks together; then all of a sudden, "words were
said, and now he's dead, I had to bring him down." At his point, my wife
always says, "Oh, indeed, goes without saying; that's what I always do when
I meet an old friend."Paul GaronAt 01:33 PM 2/4/2005, you wrote:
>Hi folks:
>
>I'm working on the song "Ninety-Nine Years", as recorded in 1932 by Martin &
>Roberts, by Jess Hillard, by Bob and Mac (a two-parter), and by Steve
>Ledford & Donald Nicholson w. the Carolina Ramblers String Band. Three
>questions.
>
>First, plot. (I'm listening to the Ledford/Nicholson recording.) He sits
>down to gamble, but cannot concentrate for thinking of the girl he loves who
>has run away with another man. Something happens, he's arrested, tried and
>sentenced to prison; he has served forty (fourteen?) years already but still
>has 99 to go. When the train rolls by carrying the woman he loves, he hangs
>his head and cries.
>
>All very well. But what did he do? Did he kill her, and the train is
>carrying her body? Or did he kill the lover? I can't make out the singer's
>words in the crucial verse. If any of you have the Martin & Roberts
>recording, perhaps it will shed more light. (There was also an Elton Britt
>song, "Answer to 99 Years", which I have not heard.)
>
>Second: In 1929 Clarence Green recorded "Ninety-Nine Years in Jail". Same
>song? Or a different one? And Jimmie Rodgers did "Ninety-Nine Years Blues".
>Any relation?
>
>Finally, anyone know of a possible author?
>
>Note: This is *not* the "Ninety-nine years is almost for life" song -- at
>least, the Ledford/Nicholson recording isn't. Are any of the others?
>
>Thanks in advance for any light you can shed!
>
>Peace,
>PaulPaul and Beth Garon
Beasley Books (ABAA)
1533 W. Oakdale
Chicago, IL 60657
(773) 472-4528
(773) 472-7857 FAX
http://www.beasleybooks.com

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Fred: I was the one who raised the issue of Blue Grass Roy. I would love to hear this album, great stuff, including "Puttin' On the Style" and "I Am My Own Grandpa." Thanks for the news. Any chance I can get a tape? Ron CohenSubject:        Blue Grass RoyA short while ago there was a discussion on this site about Blue Grass Roy,
during which it was stated that he never made any records, and that he claimed
 to have been born in Kentucky.I hope I'm not repeating something that's been said already, but I've just
come across an LP of the man; Blue Grass Roy's Collection of Mountain and  Home
Songs. Old Homestead OHCS 106.It's not compiled from commercial records, but from airshow  transcription
discs, which were cut in 1940. The playlist is as follows:-Introduction, Theme and Sales Pitch
The Little Shirt That Mother  Made For Me.
Hobo Bill's Last Ride
Puttin' On The  Style
The Royal Telephone
I Don't Work For A  Living
She's A - Winkin' At Me
Billy  Richardson's LastRide
O' Jailor Bring Back That Key
Wizard  Oil Ad.
The Dream Of A Miner's child (W/lntro.)
The  Mississippi Flood (W/Dedication),
Who Broke The Lock On The Hen House  Door
In Nineteen Ninety Two
I Am My Own Grandpa/Ending  Theme Starts With no Break in BandFar from being a native Kentuckian, the notes say that he was born in
Champaign County, Illinois. Moreover, he seems to have begun his career  singing on
WDZ, Tuscola, Illinois and WLW, Cincinatti before moving to  WFIW,
Hopkinsville, Kentucky in 1931. There he began broadcasting both  as Blue Grass Roy, and
as the Kentucky Korn Kracker.Incidentally, I heard The Royal Telephone played by a local jazz band  the
very night before I found the LP. The title rang absolutely no bells at all
with me, so I was a little surprised to have it turn up twice within 24 hours.
Does anyone know anything about its background ?Cheers,Fred McCormick.

Paul:
These recordings are among the many versions of the blues ballad generally
called "Coon Can Game."  Marina Bokelman wrote a 275-page  M.A. Thesis on it
at UCLA back in 1968.  Other recorded versions include Clarence Green,
Puckett & Jones, Graham Bros, Blue Sky Boys, Darby & Tarlton, Morgan Dennon,
Duel Frady, etc etc.
Norm----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Stamler" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 11:33 AM
Subject: Ninety-Nine Years> Hi folks:
>
> I'm working on the song "Ninety-Nine Years", as recorded in 1932 by Martin
&
> Roberts, by Jess Hillard, by Bob and Mac (a two-parter), and by Steve
> Ledford & Donald Nicholson w. the Carolina Ramblers String Band. Three
> questions.
>
> First, plot. (I'm listening to the Ledford/Nicholson recording.) He sits
> down to gamble, but cannot concentrate for thinking of the girl he loves
who
> has run away with another man. Something happens, he's arrested, tried and
> sentenced to prison; he has served forty (fourteen?) years already but
still
> has 99 to go. When the train rolls by carrying the woman he loves, he
hangs
> his head and cries.
>
> All very well. But what did he do? Did he kill her, and the train is
> carrying her body? Or did he kill the lover? I can't make out the singer's
> words in the crucial verse. If any of you have the Martin & Roberts
> recording, perhaps it will shed more light. (There was also an Elton Britt
> song, "Answer to 99 Years", which I have not heard.)
>
> Second: In 1929 Clarence Green recorded "Ninety-Nine Years in Jail". Same
> song? Or a different one? And Jimmie Rodgers did "Ninety-Nine Years
Blues".
> Any relation?
>
> Finally, anyone know of a possible author?
>
> Note: This is *not* the "Ninety-nine years is almost for life" song -- at
> least, the Ledford/Nicholson recording isn't. Are any of the others?
>
> Thanks in advance for any light you can shed!
>
> Peace,
> Paul
>

Hi!        The snow is melting, the flowers are coming up and I saw some
robins today! With those signs of hope, here is the weekly list. :-)        SONGSTERS        3955793864 - JAMES GRAY'S SONGSTER, 1880, $9.99 (ends Feb-06-05
20:10:15 PST)        3955931391 - PAT ROONEY'S IS THAT MR. RIELLY SONGSTER, 1882, $44
(ends Feb-07-05 18:00:00 PST)        3955909107 - Yankee Locke's, Old Clown, Dream and Fate, Palmistry &
C., Songster, 1888, $19.99 (ends Feb-07-05 18:45:00 PST)        3871815298 - COMICAL BROWN'S SONGSTER, 1885, $9.99 (ends Feb-09-05
18:05:58 PST)        3956348233 - True Blue Republican Campaign Songs, 1892, $39.99
(ends Feb-09-05 18:15:13 PST)        4525305164 - THE SOUVENIR MINSTREL OR SINGER'S REMEMBER ME, 1842,
$19.99 (ends Feb-10-05 18:10:20 PST)        MISCELLANEOUS        4071924619 - A TREASURY OF FIELD RECORDINGS  VOL. 1, LP, 1977, $29
(ends Feb-07-05 16:43:33 PST)        6945460169 - Journal of American Folklore, Oct-Dec 1980, $9.99
(ends Feb-08-05 16:03:51 PST) This seller has several other issues of this
journal on Ebay currently.        6945461534 - Journal of American Folklore, April-June 1979, $9.99
(ends Feb-08-05 16:27:09 PST)        4072289595 - Sara Cleveland, LP, 1975, 2.99 GBP (ends Feb-09-05
07:55:54 PST)        4072729479 - THE TRAVELLING SONGSTER - AN ANTHOLOGY FROM GYPSY
SINGERS, LP, 1977, 3.99 GBP (ends Feb-10-05 15:27:46 PST)        SONGBOOKS, ETC.        4523535025 - Boxing the Compass -- Sea Songs and Shanties by Palmer,
2001, $3.99 (ends Feb-06-05 18:00:00 PST)        4524065835 - Singin' Texas by Abernethy (inc. cassette), 1983,
$29.99 (ends Feb-06-05 19:31:28 PST)        6945503553 - FUGITIVE SCOTTISH BALLADS, 1859, $9.99 (ends Feb-07-05
04:41:19 PST)        4524196061 - Ballads and Songs of the Peasantry of England by
Henry, 1870?, $24.99 (ends Feb-07-05 09:49:50 PST)        3779916068 - Eight Negro Songs by Abbot, 1923, $3.99 (ends Feb-07-05
17:01:41 PST)        4523659761 - A Scottish Ballad Book by Buchan, 1973, $5 (ends
Feb-08-05 09:21:10 PST)        3956123027 - Tell Me A Story Sing Me A Song by Owens, 1983, $7.98
(ends Feb-08-05 16:10:42 PST)        4524589020 - More Traditional Ballads of Virginia by Davis, 1960,
$9.99 (ends Feb-08-05 18:32:45 PST)        4524589384 - The British Traditional Ballad in North America by
Coffin, 1950, $9.99 (ends Feb-08-05 18:34:03 PST)        4524588217 - Folk Songs of Old New England by Linscott, 1939, $9.99
(ends Feb-08-05 18:30:09 PST)        4524588546 - Folksingers and Folksongs in America by Lawless, 1965,
$9.99 (ends Feb-08-05 18:31:27 PST) also 4524789332 - $5.99 (ends
Feb-09-05 12:26:34 PST)        4524589669 - Ballad Books and Ballad Men by Hustvedt, 1930, $29.99
(ends Feb-08-05 18:35:07 PST)        4524590399 - The Broadside Ballad - A Study in Origins and Meaning
by Shepard, 1962, $9.99 (ends Feb-08-05 18:37:45 PST)        4072357174 - The British Broadside Ballard and its music by Simpson,
1966, 2.50 GBP (ends Feb-09-05 12:12:02 PST)        3780423473 - SONGS of the SAILOR & LUMBERMAN by Doerflinger, 1990
edition, $4.99 (ends Feb-09-05 21:08:34 PST)        3780567812 - Hebridean Folksongs Volume 3 by Campbell, 1981, 8 GBP
(ends Feb-10-05 12:27:27 PST)        3780560406 - Ballads and Songs by Belden, 1955, $9.99 (ends
Feb-10-05 17:00:00 PST)        6945708927 - Famous Cowboy and Mountain Ballads, 1944, $2 (ends
Feb-10-05 18:05:02 PST)        4524524840 - EVERYMANS BOOK OF ENGLISH COUNTRY SONGS by Palmer,
1979, 1 GBP (ends Feb-11-05 14:42:17 PST)        5555063741 - WEST OF ENGLAND AGRICULTURE SHOW BALLAD, 1840?, 4.99
GBP (ends Feb-12-05 09:30:00 PST)        4525226969 - Border Ballads by Tomson, 2.99 GBP (ends Feb-13-05
14:05:36 PST)        3780657173 - Marrow Bones English Folk Songs From The Hammond And
Gardiner Mss by Purslow, 1965, $24 (ends Feb-13-05 19:33:32 PST)                                Happy Bidding!
                                Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

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Fred: That would be jus fine. Please send to:Ronald Cohen
Dept. of History
Indiana University Northwest
Gary, IN 46408-1197Very much appreciated, ron cohenCc:	
Subject:        Re: Blue Grass RoyHi Ron,I'll be glad to, although I'll probably do a CDR rather than a tape; less
messing than a tape. But where do I send it to ?Cheers,FredIn a message dated 05/02/2005 15:12:45 GMT Standard Time, [unmask]
writes:Fred: I  was the one who raised the issue of Blue Grass Roy. I would love to
hear this  album, great stuff, including "Puttin' On the Style" and "I Am My
Own  G
randpa."  Thanks for the news. Any chance I can get a tape? Ron Cohen

A standard reference for dating "Country Music" 78's is now
    _Country Music Sources_ by Guthrie T Meade Jr with Dick Spottswood and
Douglas S. Meade (Chapel Hill, 2002).Is there a similar source or set of sources for Irish in English 78's (with
or without US and Canadian labels).  For example, for Richard Hayward's
records for Rex.  Or--in the US--for Ruthie Morrissey or the McNulty Family
on Copley?I use
    irishtune.info, Irish Traditional Music Tune Index: Alan Ng's Tunography
where I can but that is a player's site and not primarily for songsBen Schwartz

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You might find answers on the mudcat forum or the IRTRAD list.
Just look in google....
I know where to go for edison cylinders if anyone is interested in those
sources.Of course dating by technology would also help- dates of operation of
record company and dates for issue of series or label design etc.CBbennett schwartz wrote:
> A standard reference for dating "Country Music" 78's is now
>    _Country Music Sources_ by Guthrie T Meade Jr with Dick Spottswood and
> Douglas S. Meade (Chapel Hill, 2002).
>
> Is there a similar source or set of sources for Irish in English 78's (with
> or without US and Canadian labels).  For example, for Richard Hayward's
> records for Rex.  Or--in the US--for Ruthie Morrissey or the McNulty Family
> on Copley?
>
> I use
>    irishtune.info, Irish Traditional Music Tune Index: Alan Ng's Tunography
> where I can but that is a player's site and not primarily for songs
>
>
> Ben Schwartz--
@#@#@#@##@#@#@#@#@##@#@#@#@#@#@@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@
Looking through my bedroom window, out into the moonlight and the
uneding smoke-colored snow,
I could see the lights in the windows of all the other houses on our
hill and hear the music rising from them
up the long, steadily falling night. I turned the gas down, I got into
bed. I said some words to the
close and holy darkness, and then I slept!-Dylan Thomas
####################################################################

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Automatic digest processor <[unmask]>, in the
person of Fred McCormick, writes:> Incidentally, I heard The Royal Telephone played by a local jazz
> band the very night before I found the LP. The title rang absolutely
> no bells at all with me, so I was a little surprised to have it turn
> up twice within 24 hours.  Does anyone know anything about its
> background ?_Rise Up Singing_ (surprise!) attributes it to F. M. Lehman, and says:  Lehman was a Pittsburgh radio evangelist who write this song in
  the mid 1920's.  On Jean Ritchie "High Hills & Mtns".
--
---  Joe Fineman    [unmask]||:  "There's a hint of fall in the air."  :||
||:  "Don't talk with your mouth full."    :||

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just another piece on Royal Telephone- it was a number one chart hit
(in Australia) in the early 1960s as recorded by the wonderful
Aboriginal country singer Jimmy Little. It was also
the first chart hit for an indigenous Australian artist   warren faheyOn 07/02/2005, at 4:04 AM, Conrad Bladey Peasant wrote:> You might find answers on the mudcat forum or the IRTRAD list.
> Just look in google....
> I know where to go for edison cylinders if anyone is interested in
> those
> sources.
>
> Of course dating by technology would also help- dates of operation of
> record company and dates for issue of series or label design etc.
>
> CB
>
> bennett schwartz wrote:
>> A standard reference for dating "Country Music" 78's is now
>>    _Country Music Sources_ by Guthrie T Meade Jr with Dick Spottswood
>> and
>> Douglas S. Meade (Chapel Hill, 2002).
>>
>> Is there a similar source or set of sources for Irish in English 78's
>> (with
>> or without US and Canadian labels).  For example, for Richard
>> Hayward's
>> records for Rex.  Or--in the US--for Ruthie Morrissey or the McNulty
>> Family
>> on Copley?
>>
>> I use
>>    irishtune.info, Irish Traditional Music Tune Index: Alan Ng's
>> Tunography
>> where I can but that is a player's site and not primarily for songs
>>
>>
>> Ben Schwartz
>
> --
> @#@#@#@##@#@#@#@#@##@#@#@#@#@#@@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@
> Looking through my bedroom window, out into the moonlight and the
> uneding smoke-colored snow,
> I could see the lights in the windows of all the other houses on our
> hill and hear the music rising from them
> up the long, steadily falling night. I turned the gas down, I got into
> bed. I said some words to the
> close and holy darkness, and then I slept!-Dylan Thomas
> ####################################################################
>

It's also on a Blue Sky Boys reissue, I think a Rounder tape--but it may be
something I got from The Music Barn.  I was listening to it a couple of
weeks ago, but can't put my hands on it at the moment.-- Bill McCarthyAt 02:05 PM 2/6/2005, Fred McCormick wrote:
>Ok folks. Found it. It's a 1970s LP which has lately been reissued along
>with None but One.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Fred McCormick.
>
>Joe,
>
>Many thanks. What's the connection with Jean Ritchie ? Is High Hills and
>Mountains a record of hers that I've missed ?
>
>Fred McCormick
>
>
>In a message dated 06/02/2005 18:01:42 GMT Standard Time,
>[unmask] writes:
>Automatic digest processor <[unmask]>, in the
>person of Fred McCormick, writes:
>
> > Incidentally, I heard The Royal Telephone played by a local jazz
> > band the very night before I found the LP. The title rang absolutely
> > no bells at all with me, so I was a little surprised to have it turn
> > up twice within 24 hours.  Does anyone know anything about its
> > background ?
>
>_Rise Up Singing_ (surprise!) attributes it to F. M. Lehman, and says:
>
>   Lehman was a Pittsburgh radio evangelist who write this song in
>   the mid 1920's.  On Jean Ritchie "High Hills & Mtns".
>--
>---  Joe Fineman    [unmask]
>
>||:  "There's a hint of fall in the air."  :||
>||:  "Don't talk with your mouth full."    :||
>
>

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Another item from Research Buzz which some of you might find of interest:** Project to Digitize Black Newspapers Underway
<http://www.researchbuzz.org/project_to_digitize_black_newspapers_underway.shtml>Newspapers & Technology is reporting (
http://newsandtech.com/issues/2005/02-05/ot/02-05_blackpapers.htm )
about a project to digitize the archives of over 200 African-American newspapers and make them available online.The project is a partnership between Amalgamated Publishers Inc. and Ninestars Information Technology Ltd. There's a lot to this project since many of the newspapers being digitized go back over a hundred years. The intent would be to create a single Internet site where all the newspapers would be searched.Searching would be free but accessing the entire article would cost.

Hi!        The perfect Valentine gift for the ballad enthusiast can be
found on this week's Ebay list :-)        SONGSTERS        6946043363 -  GRIGG'S SOUTHERN AND WESTERN SONGSTER, 1865, $19.99
(ends Feb-13-05 14:32:00 PST)        3781487774 - GUS WILLIAMS "OH WHAT A NIGHT" SONGSTER, 1885, $7.99
(ends Feb-14-05 17:01:39 PST)        3957243440 - 2 songsters (Cleveland & Hendricks Campaign Songster
1884 & Cleveland & Thurman 1888), $15 (ends Feb-14-05 18:30:00 PST)        6510724723 - Patterson's Ideal Songster, 1890, $7.99 (ends
Feb-15-05 06:00:38 PST)        3957343319 - Yankee Locke's Old Clown Songster, 1888, $9.99 (ends
Feb-15-05 18:00:00 PST)        3781727034 - Patterson's Ideal Songster, 1880, $4 (ends Feb-15-05
18:37:45 PST)        6511270635 - Excelsior Songster, 1888, $9.99 (ends Feb-17-05
14:24:03 PST)        MISCELLANEOUS        4073616630 - Virginia Traditions, LP, 1978, $3.98 (ends Feb-14-05
08:18:47 PST)        4072895803 - JEANNIE ROBERTSON, LP, $14.99 (ends Feb-14-05 17:30:00
PST)        6945849937 - Magazine, Record Collector inc. articles on folk music
and folk recordings, 1994, 0.99 GBP (ends Feb-15-05 08:01:55 PST)        4074095192 - Hudson Valley Songs by Warner, LP, $9.99 w/reserve
(ends Feb-16-05 08:15:08 PST)        4074170406 - The New Beehive Songs, Volume 1, Early Recordings of
Pioneer Folk Music, LP, $9.99 (ends Feb-16-05 13:07:31 PST)        SONGBOOKS, ETC.        6945820836 - The Legendary Ballads Of England And Scotland by
Roberts, 1868, $9.01 (ends Feb-12-05 12:00:00 PST)        3780942002 - Broadside - The Brave Volunteers from North Haven,
1862, $250 (ends Feb-12-05 18:00:00 PST)        6946042648 - FOLK BALLADS AND SONGS OF THE LOWER LABRADOR COAST by
Leach, 1965, $20 C (ends Feb-13-05 14:25:19 PST)        6946508489 - Devil's Ditties by Thomas, 1931, $69.95 (ends Feb-13-05
16:19:26 PST) also 4527042521 - $20 (ends Feb-17-05 08:12:49 PST)        4526109746 - American Mountain Songs by Richardson, 1927, $20 (ends
Feb-13-05 18:20:56 PST)        7952915296 - THE OXFORD NURSERY RHYME BOOK by Opie, 1975, $3.50
(ends Feb-13-05 18:39:53 PST)        6946270676 - A North Countrie Garland by Maidment, 1884 edition,
$65 (ends Feb-13-05 19:00:00 PST)        3781330036 - 4 country songbooks, 1936-1940, $6 (ends Feb-13-05
22:31:47 PST)        6946190821 - The Ballad In Literature by Henderson, 1912, $5 AU
(ends Feb-15-05 01:29:32 PST)        7953203250 - A SCOTTISH BALLAD BOOK by Buchan, 1973, 0.99 GBP (ends
Feb-15-05 06:25:46 PST)        4526550459 - OLD IRISH STREET BALLADS by Healy, 1967, 3.99 GBP
(ends Feb-15-05 12:49:08 PST)        6946282634 - AMERICAN NEGRO FOLK-SONGS by White, 1965 reprint,
$9.99 (ends Feb-15-05 18:45:11 PST)        7953489743 - The Common Muse - British Ballads 15th - 20th Century
by Sola Pinto & Rodway, 1965, 0.99 GBP (ends Feb-16-05 04:05:05 PST)        4526943545 - Songs and Ballads from Nova Scotia by Creighton, 1966,
$9.99 (ends Feb-16-05 19:18:17 PST)        4526949712 - Folk Visions & Voices by Rosenbaum, 1983, $4.99 (ends
Feb-16-05 19:46:20 PST)        3781977175 - CENTENARY EDITION TWO VOLUMES REPRINTED IN ONE BOOK of
songs collected by Cecil Sharp, 1959, 4.99 GBP (ends Feb-17-05 01:43:22 PST)        4527041675 - TALES & SONGS OF SOUTHERN ILLINOIS by Neely, 1998
edition, $12.50 (ends Feb-17-05 08:09:16 PST)        3957748839 - 2 country songbooks, 1933-35, $0.99 (ends Feb-17-05
11:09:14 PST)        4527091745 - Folk Songs of Australia by Meredith, 1979, $6.99 (ends
Feb-17-05 11:10:54 PST)        4527138714 - Folk Songs from the North by Polwarth, 0.99 GBP (ends
Feb-17-05 13:22:48 PST)        4526295078 - Old Songs and Singing Games by Chase, 1972 edition,
4.99 GBP (ends Feb-17-05 13:40:45 PST)        4526475797 - ROBIN HOOD- A COLLECTION OF POEMS,SONGS & BALLADS by
Ritson, 1972 reprint, 2 GBP (ends Feb-18-05 08:40:30 PST)        4526581947 - The Second Book of Irish Ballads by Healy, 1964, 1 GBP
(ends Feb-18-05 14:23:38 PST)                                Happy Bidding!
                                Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

Hello everyone,I remember reading on this list that someone is/was working on a definitive
"Stackalee" history.I have a graduate student who is very interested in learning more of the
history of this song/toast/recitation.  Could someone give me the email
address of the person working on "Stackalee" or forward on my request to
him?Thanks!John Mehlberg
~
My, mostly traditional, bawdy songs, toasts and recitations website:
www.immortalia.com.

Cecil Brown published a very thorough book: Stagolee Shot Billy. Harvard
University Press, 2004.Paul GaronAt 11:53 AM 2/12/2005, you wrote:
>Hello everyone,
>
>I remember reading on this list that someone is/was working on a definitive
>"Stackalee" history.
>
>I have a graduate student who is very interested in learning more of the
>history of this song/toast/recitation.  Could someone give me the email
>address of the person working on "Stackalee" or forward on my request to
>him?
>
>Thanks!Paul and Beth Garon
Beasley Books (ABAA)
1533 W. Oakdale
Chicago, IL 60657
(773) 472-4528
(773) 472-7857 FAX
http://www.beasleybooks.com

Folks:I would call your attention to the fact that Postscript, a British overstock house, has "limited copies" of  James Porter and Herschel Gower, _Jeannie Robertson: Emergent Singer, Transformative Voice (Tuckwell, 1995) for 5.99 GPB.  The stock number is 25698.  Needless to say, this is an important work for any person interested in ballads and folk song.The book can be ordered on line at wwwpsbooks.co.uk .  The UK telephone number is 020 8767 7421.Ed

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Dear everyone,Here is a low quality PDF copy of _The Frisky Songster_ (1776):   http://immortalia.com/1776-the-frisky-songster.zip   (5.5MB)Legman in his 1990 erotic songs bibliography has this to say of
this book:    _The Frisky Songster_. c. 1770. London, or Dublin.
   (Reprint copies: [1776] Bodleian, W. N. H. Harding
   Collection; Kinsey-ISR: 1802.) The essential erotic
   folksong collection in English of the late 18th century.
   (Compare: _The Honest Fellow_, 1790 and _The New
   Frisky Songster, 1794.) On the legal condemnations
   of this work see: G. Chitty, _A Practical Treatise on
   the Criminal Law_ (1826 2d edition) vol. 2:42-43.Comparing this songster with _The Merry Muses of Caledonia_
helps place the later book in the context of the erotic songbooks
of the late 18th century.Yours,John Mehlberg
~
My, mostly traditional, bawdy songs, toasts and
recitations website: www.immortalia.com.

Hope this will be of interest to some of the list members:
Ella Shields on DVD.....
Warner dvd 65286  - "The Broadway Melody" (1929)
  This release contains supplementary material including 5 issues of
Metro Movietone Revue - in Revue #4 there is a segment of
Miss Ella Shields singing (and dancing) The King's Navy (about 2:40).
Music Hall lovers:  Enjoy!
  Best wishes, Thomas Stern.

Hello ballad-l,Can you help me identify this tune?   http://immortalia.com/go_kiss_your_pa_[tune].mp3Thanks!John Mehlberg

It has come to my attention that some people have had trouble contacting me because my email address has changed.  Sorry I didn't think to send out this message before our IT dept. took down the old server!  Old email:   [unmask]New email (as of Jan. 10, 2005):    [unmask]Thanks.LynLyn Wolz, Director
Regents Center Library
University of Kansas, Edwards Campus
12600 Quivira Road
Overland Park, KS  66213
(913) 897-8572
[unmask] 
   

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Mehlberg" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 11:24 AM
Subject: Can you identify this tune?Hello ballad-l,Can you help me identify this tune?   http://immortalia.com/go_kiss_your_pa_[tune].mp3Well, it sounds similar to a version of "Christopho Colombo" I've heard (the
verse, not the chorus), and there's also a slight resemblance to "No More
Booze on Sunday".Peace,
Paul

As always just when you think you have them all....Actually these are quite fun....and among the earliest too....Going to
be a big year....400th of the plot....Join in by going here:
http://www.bcpl.net/~cbladey/fifthgala.htmlAn EXCELLENT
G A R L A N D,CONTAININGAdditional songs in Inkle and arico. 2. The revolution and gunpowder
plot. 3. God save the King. The top-sails shiver in the wind.
Manchester, 1790 ?The Revolution, and Gunpowder Plot.Tune-God save the king.Patriots of Britain Great,
Now join to celebrate
Two great events;
Gun-powder Treason and
The Revolution grand;
Joy echo through the land;
Time now presents.Rome, as our records say,
Aimed upon this day,
Britain's o'erthrow,
To blast was her intent,
Both King and Parliament,
And Constitution rent,
All at on blow.But heaven who Britons aid,
When foes our rights invade,
Did frustrate,
With helping hand divine,
Her hellish, vile design,
In a destructive mine,
Providence great!The church to overthrow,
And Romish errors sow,
James, Britain's King,
Strove with an ardent zeal,
But in effect did fail,
Which gave him cause to 'weal
Woe! did him sting.Rul'd by despotic will,
Patriots no places fill,
In Church nor State;
But injur'd Britons brave,
William's assistance crave,
Who did our freedom save,
And James defeat.Britons the chorus join,
Ever may Brunswick's line,
This empire sway;
May George's progeny,
Our laws defenders be;
God bless the family;
Huzza! huzza!
*Prince of Orange.The Scots Vocal Miscellany
A Choice Collection  of the most celebrated S O N G S,
ANCIENT and MODERN,
MANY OF WHICH NEVER BEFORE IN PRINT
E D I N B U R G HPrinted and sold by J. ROCH, at his Printing house, Luckenbooths, and by
all Booksellers in Town and Country,
M.DCCLXXX1780[92}The gun-powder plot.Some twelve months ago,
An hundred or so,
The Pope went to visit the devil;
And as, you will find,
Old Nick, to a friend,
Can behave himself wondrous civil.Quoth the De'il to the Seer,
What the De'il brought you here
It was surely some whimsical maggot:
Come, draw to the fire;
Nay, prithee, sit nigher:
Here, sirrah! lay on t'other faggot.You're welcome to Hell;
I hope friends are well,
At Pareis, Madrid, and at Rome;
And, now you elope,
I suppose, my dear Pope,
The conclave will hang out the broom.Then his Holiness cry'd,
All jesting aside,
"Give the Pope and the Devil their dues;"
For, believe me, Old Dad,
I'll make thy heart glad,
For, by Jove, I do bring thee rare news.There's a plot to beguile
An obstinate isle;
Great Britain, that heretic nation,
Who so shyly behav'd,
Inthe hopes of being sav'd
By the help of a d--d Reformation.We'll never have done,
If we burn one by one,
Tis' such a d--d numerous race!
For no sooner one's dead,
Like the fam'd Hydra's head,
Than a dozen spring up in his place.But, believe me, Old Nick,
We'll play them a trick,
The like was ne'er hatched in France;
For this day before dinner,
As sure's I'm a sinner,
We'll burn all the rascals at onece.When the king with his son
To the parliament's gone,
To consult about old musty papers,
We'll give them a greeting,
Shall break up their meeting,
  And try who can cut the best capers.There's powder enough,
And combustible stuff,
Inf fifty and odd trusty barrels,
Which will blow all together,
The Devil cares whither,
And decide at one blow all our quarrels.But this was scarce said,
When in popp'd the head
Of an old Jesuitical Wight,
Who cry'd You're mistaken,
They've all saav'd their bacon,
And Jemmy still stinks with the fright.Then Satan was struck,
And said 'tis bad luck,
But you for your news shall be thanked:
So he call'd to the door
Seven devils or more,
And they toss'd the poor dog in a blanket.--
@#@#@#@##@#@#@#@#@##@#@#@#@#@#@@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@
Looking through my bedroom window, out into the moonlight and the
uneding smoke-colored snow,
I could see the lights in the windows of all the other houses on our
hill and hear the music rising from them
up the long, steadily falling night. I turned the gas down, I got into
bed. I said some words to the
close and holy darkness, and then I slept!-Dylan Thomas
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