Google's lastest is Google search of your own computer (or dual search on
your computer plus the web).  Once it has a chance to index your computer,
it looks inside docs & spreadsheets & (certain) email for words/phrases same
as a web search.  Takes a few seconds to do a full text search of your
computer.  Where did I put that floating verse?So far, I think it actually only searches Microsoft & text-extension & HTML
type files - probably not DT or Bal Index but still...  just searching the
indices of my "books" is great.  Have fun.http://desktop.google.com/-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida

Hi!        Today brought the first real snow the season to the Washington
DC area and usual automotive chaos (no one here seems to know how to
drive in the stuff :-( ) It also brings the weekly Ebay list. :-)        SONGSTERS        6506093353 - The IRISH GEM SONGSTER, 1883, $10.50 (ends Jan-23-05
18:15:19 PST)        6943648973 - Old Uncle Ned Songster, $9.99 (ends Jan-24-05 18:01:31
PST)        3953491137 - Buffalo Bill's Wild West Songster, 1896, $15 (ends
Jan-25-05 15:52:34 PST)        MISCELLANEOUS        4067936965 - The Hell-Bound Train by Ohrlin, LP, $0.50 (ends
Jan-22-05 12:06:20 PST)        4068097668 - Phil Tanner, LP, 1968, 3.99 GBP (ends Jan-23-05 06:18:03
PST)        4068100400 - A Garland for Sam by Larner, LP, 1974, 4.99 GBP (ends
Jan-23-05 06:35:46 PST)        4068102728 - Songs from the Eel's Foot by Brightwell, LP, 1975,
2.99 GBP (ends Jan-23-05 06:51:10 PST)        4068104670 - Ye Subjects of England by Maynard, LP, 1976, 3.99 GBP
(ends Jan-23-05 07:01:36 PST) See below for book        4521270863 - Old Time Music Magazine, summer 1976, $9.99 (ends
Jan-26-05 14:31:19 PST)        SONGBOOKS, ETC.        4519750186 - More Traditional Ballads of Virginia by Davis, 1960,
$9.99 (ends Jan-20-05 15:38:32 PST)        6943210036 - American Folksongs of Protest by Greenway, 1960 edition,
$4.99 (ends Jan-20-05 20:04:19 PST)        4519836480 - ADIRONDACK VOICES : WOODSMEN AND WOOD LORE by Bethke,
1983, $9.99 (ends Jan-20-05 20:05:19 PST)        6943216808 - Devil's Ditties by Thomas, 1931, $65 (ends Jan-20-05
21:41:48 PST)        4519886733 - FOLKSINGERS AND FOLKSONGS IN AMERICA by Lawless, 1965
edition, $5.99 (ends Jan-21-05 05:38:01 PST)        3776204099 - 12 Songs for Chidren from the Appalachian Mountains by
Sharp, 0.99 GBP (ends Jan-22-05 03:26:18 PST)        4520128773 - THE SECOND BOOK OF IRISH BALLADS by Healy, 1964, $4.95
AU (ends Jan-22-05 06:24:51 PST)        4519538319 - Songs of Work and Protest by Fowke, 1973, $4.98 (ends
Jan-22-05 06:47:11 PST)        4520136481 - Folklore & Society, essays in honor of Benjamin A.
Botkin by Jackson, 1966, $9.99 (ends Jan-22-05 07:27:45 PST)        4519521995 - YARNS AND BALLADS OF THE AUSTRALIAN BUSH by Edwards,
$17.50 AU (ends Jan-23-05 01:56:29 PST)        4520358983 - The Life and Songs of George Maynard by Subbs, 1963,
1.99 GBP (ends Jan-23-05 07:30:12 PST)        4520366434 - TALES AND SONGS OF SOUTHERN ILLINOIS by Neely, 1998
edition, $12.50 (ends Jan-23-05 08:05:20 PST)        6943520513 - Old English Ballads and Folk Songs by Armes, 1907,
$0.99 (ends Jan-23-05 15:05:10 PST)        6943529312 - AFRO-AMERICAN FOLKSONGS by Krehbiel, 1914, $34.99
(ends Jan-23-05 16:40:06 PST)        6505615100 - Songs and Ballads of Northern England by Walton, 1955?,
2 GBP (ends Jan-24-05 11:21:22 PST)        4520136088 - The Scots Musical Museum by Johnson, 2 volumes,  1962
printing, 20 GBP (ends Jan-25-05 07:24:54 PST)        4521084543 - Coal Dust on the Fiddle by Korson, 1943, $13 (ends
Jan-25-05 18:50:05 PST)        4520622148 - Great Australian Folk Songs by Lahey, 1996?, $19 AU
(ends Jan-27-05 01:02:44 PST)                                Happy Bidding!
                                Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

Saw this posted as available on E-Bay:<< 6943210036 - American Folksongs of Protest by Greenway, 1960 edition,
$4.99 (ends Jan-20-05 20:04:19 PST) by Greenway  >>Inquiry:Would the author be John Greenway - Univ. of Kentucky?Thanks,Dan Cummins
(in Kentucky)

Yes, one and the same John Greenway, although he ended up at the Univ. of Colorado and as a far-right conservative. Kenny Goldstein had great stories of running into Greenwway in Boulder in the later 1960s when he (Greenway) was a volunteer cop riding around beating up on student demonstrators. He apparently turned against the left when he was doing research in Australia and didn't get the cooperation of the Communist Party in his song collecting. See his book on Austrailan natives, DOWN AMONG THE WILD MEN, in which, in an aside, he attacks Pete Seeger. Ronald CohenSaw this posted as available on E-Bay:<< 6943210036 - American Folksongs of Protest by Greenway, 1960 edition,
$4.99 (ends Jan-20-05 20:04:19 PST) by Greenway  >>Inquiry:Would the author be John Greenway - Univ. of Kentucky?Thanks,Dan Cummins
(in Kentucky)

>Yes, one and the same John Greenway, although he ended up at the
>Univ. of Colorado and as a far-right conservative. Kenny Goldstein
>had great stories of running into Greenwway in Boulder in the later
>1960s when he (Greenway) was a volunteer cop riding around beating
>up on student demonstrators. He apparently turned against the left
>when he was doing research in Australia and didn't get the
>cooperation of the Communist Party in his song collecting. See his
>book on Austrailan natives, DOWN AMONG THE WILD MEN, in which, in an
>aside, he attacks Pete Seeger. Ronald CohenStuck dimly in my mind is a recollection (?) of something published
in JAF after Woody Guthrie's death.  The writer didn't think much of
Woody.  Was that Greenway?  Or am I recalling something that doesn't
exist (the grey matter ain't so swift these days).John

Dan:No, this is the late John Greenway, an anthropologist who spent the bulk of his career at Colorado (Boulder).Ed----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Cummins <[unmask]>
Date: Thursday, January 20, 2005 5:53 am
Subject: Songs of Protest> Saw this posted as available on E-Bay:
>
> << 6943210036 - American Folksongs of Protest by Greenway, 1960
> edition,$4.99 (ends Jan-20-05 20:04:19 PST) by Greenway  >>
>
> Inquiry:
>
> Would the author be John Greenway - Univ. of Kentucky?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dan Cummins
> (in Kentucky)
>

Ron and  Dan:Sorry .  I didn't know Greenway was at Kentucky.Whatever his politics -- and I remember a phone call  with him in which he defended his volunteer police work (as a sergeant, I recall) tooling around Boulder one night a week -- Greenway was a gutsty editor of the _Journal of American Folklore._   He took an article of mine, "The Rabbi Trickster,"  that he was sure would offend everyone.  It did.  I never heard one word of regret from him.  (I might add that he knew I worked for the ACLU at the time and that our politics were 180-degrees apart.)Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cohen, Ronald" <[unmask]>
Date: Thursday, January 20, 2005 7:52 am
Subject: Re: Songs of Protest> Yes, one and the same John Greenway, although he ended up at the
> Univ. of Colorado and as a far-right conservative. Kenny Goldstein
> had great stories of running into Greenwway in Boulder in the later
> 1960s when he (Greenway) was a volunteer cop riding around beating
> up on student demonstrators. He apparently turned against the left
> when he was doing research in Australia and didn't get the
> cooperation of the Communist Party in his song collecting. See his
> book on Austrailan natives, DOWN AMONG THE WILD MEN, in which, in
> an aside, he attacks Pete Seeger. Ronald Cohen
>
>
>
> Saw this posted as available on E-Bay:
>
> << 6943210036 - American Folksongs of Protest by Greenway, 1960
> edition,$4.99 (ends Jan-20-05 20:04:19 PST) by Greenway  >>
>
> Inquiry:
>
> Would the author be John Greenway - Univ. of Kentucky?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dan Cummins
> (in Kentucky)
>

I discuss Greenway tangentially in my article on "The Factory Girl" (to be
distributed next month by Archie Green's Fund for Labor Culture and
History)--including his hilarious farewell editorial as editor of JAF.
Norm Cohen----- Original Message -----
From: "edward cray" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: Songs of Protest> Ron and  Dan:
>
> Sorry .  I didn't know Greenway was at Kentucky.
>
> Whatever his politics -- and I remember a phone call  with him in which he
defended his volunteer police work (as a sergeant, I recall) tooling around
Boulder one night a week -- Greenway was a gutsty editor of the _Journal of
American Folklore._   He took an article of mine, "The Rabbi Trickster,"
that he was sure would offend everyone.  It did.  I never heard one word of
regret from him.  (I might add that he knew I worked for the ACLU at the
time and that our politics were 180-degrees apart.)
>
> Ed
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cohen, Ronald" <[unmask]>
> Date: Thursday, January 20, 2005 7:52 am
> Subject: Re: Songs of Protest
>
> > Yes, one and the same John Greenway, although he ended up at the
> > Univ. of Colorado and as a far-right conservative. Kenny Goldstein
> > had great stories of running into Greenwway in Boulder in the later
> > 1960s when he (Greenway) was a volunteer cop riding around beating
> > up on student demonstrators. He apparently turned against the left
> > when he was doing research in Australia and didn't get the
> > cooperation of the Communist Party in his song collecting. See his
> > book on Austrailan natives, DOWN AMONG THE WILD MEN, in which, in
> > an aside, he attacks Pete Seeger. Ronald Cohen
> >
> >
> >
> > Saw this posted as available on E-Bay:
> >
> > << 6943210036 - American Folksongs of Protest by Greenway, 1960
> > edition,$4.99 (ends Jan-20-05 20:04:19 PST) by Greenway  >>
> >
> > Inquiry:
> >
> > Would the author be John Greenway - Univ. of Kentucky?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Dan Cummins
> > (in Kentucky)
> >
>

John:Greenway's obit in JAF for Woody was gentle and moving.  The later editor of JAF who scorned Guthrie as a man and a poet was Ellen Stekert.Ed----- Original Message -----
From: John Garst <[unmask]>
Date: Thursday, January 20, 2005 8:02 am
Subject: Re: Songs of Protest> >Yes, one and the same John Greenway, although he ended up at the
> >Univ. of Colorado and as a far-right conservative. Kenny Goldstein
> >had great stories of running into Greenwway in Boulder in the later
> >1960s when he (Greenway) was a volunteer cop riding around beating
> >up on student demonstrators. He apparently turned against the left
> >when he was doing research in Australia and didn't get the
> >cooperation of the Communist Party in his song collecting. See his
> >book on Austrailan natives, DOWN AMONG THE WILD MEN, in which, in an
> >aside, he attacks Pete Seeger. Ronald Cohen
>
> Stuck dimly in my mind is a recollection (?) of something published
> in JAF after Woody Guthrie's death.  The writer didn't think much of
> Woody.  Was that Greenway?  Or am I recalling something that doesn't
> exist (the grey matter ain't so swift these days).
>
> John
>

<<  No, this is the late John Greenway, an anthropologist who spent the
bulk of his career at Colorado (Boulder).Ed  >>Thank you Ed (and all).  The John Greenway here (Kentucky) is a recently-
retired English Prof.Cheers,  DanPS  Quite an unexpected swirl of responses though.

All,
FYI I'm bidding on Ken Stubbs' book about "Pop" Maynard.
Simon

I might add that while the Colorado John Greenway was known as an anthropologist and folklorist, he also had a PhD in English, as I recall. Quite a renaissance person, who deserves a good study some day. Ron CohenSubject:        Re: Songs of Protest<<  No, this is the late John Greenway, an anthropologist who spent the
bulk of his career at Colorado (Boulder).Ed  >>Thank you Ed (and all).  The John Greenway here (Kentucky) is a recently-
retired English Prof.Cheers,  DanPS  Quite an unexpected swirl of responses though.

On Thu, Jan 20, 2005 at 08:53:54AM -0500, Dan Cummins wrote:
> Saw this posted as available on E-Bay:
>
> << 6943210036 - American Folksongs of Protest by Greenway, 1960 edition,
> $4.99 (ends Jan-20-05 20:04:19 PST) by Greenway  >>
>
> Inquiry:
>
> Would the author be John Greenway - Univ. of Kentucky?In a word, yes.  (Though I know nothing of his academic affiliation,
nor his current location.)  -- Aloha, Lani<||> Lani Herrmann * [unmask] (or: [unmask])
<||> 5621 Sierra Ave. * Richmond, CA 94805 * (510) 237-7360

Is Greenway still alive? If so, is there some way of contacting him?  His
book about songs of social protest came out while I was at college and
really changed my whole worldview.  I'd love to correspond with him...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cohen, Ronald" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: Songs of ProtestYes, one and the same John Greenway, although he ended up at the Univ. of
Colorado and as a far-right conservative. Kenny Goldstein had great stories
of running into Greenwway in Boulder in the later 1960s when he (Greenway)
was a volunteer cop riding around beating up on student demonstrators. He
apparently turned against the left when he was doing research in Australia
and didn't get the cooperation of the Communist Party in his song
collecting. See his book on Austrailan natives, DOWN AMONG THE WILD MEN, in
which, in an aside, he attacks Pete Seeger. Ronald CohenSaw this posted as available on E-Bay:<< 6943210036 - American Folksongs of Protest by Greenway, 1960 edition,
$4.99 (ends Jan-20-05 20:04:19 PST) by Greenway  >>Inquiry:Would the author be John Greenway - Univ. of Kentucky?Thanks,Dan Cummins
(in Kentucky)

How can I get a copy of your "The Factory Girl" article?
TIA.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Norm Cohen" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: Songs of Protest>I discuss Greenway tangentially in my article on "The Factory Girl" (to be
> distributed next month by Archie Green's Fund for Labor Culture and
> History)--including his hilarious farewell editorial as editor of JAF.
> Norm Cohen
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "edward cray" <[unmask]>
> To: <[unmask]>
> Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 9:54 AM
> Subject: Re: Songs of Protest
>
>
>> Ron and  Dan:
>>
>> Sorry .  I didn't know Greenway was at Kentucky.
>>
>> Whatever his politics -- and I remember a phone call  with him in which
>> he
> defended his volunteer police work (as a sergeant, I recall) tooling
> around
> Boulder one night a week -- Greenway was a gutsty editor of the _Journal
> of
> American Folklore._   He took an article of mine, "The Rabbi Trickster,"
> that he was sure would offend everyone.  It did.  I never heard one word
> of
> regret from him.  (I might add that he knew I worked for the ACLU at the
> time and that our politics were 180-degrees apart.)
>>
>> Ed
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Cohen, Ronald" <[unmask]>
>> Date: Thursday, January 20, 2005 7:52 am
>> Subject: Re: Songs of Protest
>>
>> > Yes, one and the same John Greenway, although he ended up at the
>> > Univ. of Colorado and as a far-right conservative. Kenny Goldstein
>> > had great stories of running into Greenwway in Boulder in the later
>> > 1960s when he (Greenway) was a volunteer cop riding around beating
>> > up on student demonstrators. He apparently turned against the left
>> > when he was doing research in Australia and didn't get the
>> > cooperation of the Communist Party in his song collecting. See his
>> > book on Austrailan natives, DOWN AMONG THE WILD MEN, in which, in
>> > an aside, he attacks Pete Seeger. Ronald Cohen
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Saw this posted as available on E-Bay:
>> >
>> > << 6943210036 - American Folksongs of Protest by Greenway, 1960
>> > edition,$4.99 (ends Jan-20-05 20:04:19 PST) by Greenway  >>
>> >
>> > Inquiry:
>> >
>> > Would the author be John Greenway - Univ. of Kentucky?
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Dan Cummins
>> > (in Kentucky)
>> >
>>

Anyone know if  Charles Leland actually collected these ballads or were they composed.  It would seem to me that if he collected them all he would have included a tune name with the ballad. It would also seem likely that some of these ballads are part of the existing "canon" of ballads collected in the isles.  In learning a little about Mr. Leland it seems that he had a particularly strong interest in the occult,  folklore, the occult, It makes me wonder if any of the other collectors of ballads and folklore are also as interested in the occult. I haven't heard of any other ties to the darker arts, certainly the Scottish Folk Lore lends itself to this but I have not heard this mentioned with any of the Scottish Collectors.  Are these big secrets or is there not enough truth to warrant study in these areas.Sammy Rich

Roy:Sad to say, John Greenway is dead these past ten years.Ed----- Original Message -----
From: Roy Berkeley <[unmask]>
Date: Thursday, January 20, 2005 4:37 pm
Subject: Re: Songs of Protest> How can I get a copy of your "The Factory Girl" article?
> TIA.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Norm Cohen" <[unmask]>
> To: <[unmask]>
> Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 1:01 PM
> Subject: Re: Songs of Protest
>
>
> >I discuss Greenway tangentially in my article on "The Factory
> Girl" (to be
> > distributed next month by Archie Green's Fund for Labor Culture and
> > History)--including his hilarious farewell editorial as editor of
> JAF.> Norm Cohen
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "edward cray" <[unmask]>
> > To: <[unmask]>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 9:54 AM
> > Subject: Re: Songs of Protest
> >
> >
> >> Ron and  Dan:
> >>
> >> Sorry .  I didn't know Greenway was at Kentucky.
> >>
> >> Whatever his politics -- and I remember a phone call  with him
> in which
> >> he
> > defended his volunteer police work (as a sergeant, I recall) tooling
> > around
> > Boulder one night a week -- Greenway was a gutsty editor of the
> _Journal> of
> > American Folklore._   He took an article of mine, "The Rabbi
> Trickster,"> that he was sure would offend everyone.  It did.  I
> never heard one word
> > of
> > regret from him.  (I might add that he knew I worked for the ACLU
> at the
> > time and that our politics were 180-degrees apart.)
> >>
> >> Ed
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Cohen, Ronald" <[unmask]>
> >> Date: Thursday, January 20, 2005 7:52 am
> >> Subject: Re: Songs of Protest
> >>
> >> > Yes, one and the same John Greenway, although he ended up at the
> >> > Univ. of Colorado and as a far-right conservative. Kenny
> Goldstein>> > had great stories of running into Greenwway in
> Boulder in the later
> >> > 1960s when he (Greenway) was a volunteer cop riding around
> beating>> > up on student demonstrators. He apparently turned
> against the left
> >> > when he was doing research in Australia and didn't get the
> >> > cooperation of the Communist Party in his song collecting. See
> his>> > book on Austrailan natives, DOWN AMONG THE WILD MEN, in
> which, in
> >> > an aside, he attacks Pete Seeger. Ronald Cohen
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Saw this posted as available on E-Bay:
> >> >
> >> > << 6943210036 - American Folksongs of Protest by Greenway, 1960
> >> > edition,$4.99 (ends Jan-20-05 20:04:19 PST) by Greenway  >>
> >> >
> >> > Inquiry:
> >> >
> >> > Would the author be John Greenway - Univ. of Kentucky?
> >> >
> >> > Thanks,
> >> >
> >> > Dan Cummins
> >> > (in Kentucky)
> >> >
> >>
>

Re, interest in the occult: Helen Creighton certainly published on ghost lore, and Yeats certainly had those interests.        Marge -----Original Message-----
From: Forum for ballad scholars [mailto:[unmask]]On
Behalf Of Sammy Rich
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 10:55 PM
To: [unmask]
Subject: Hans Breitmann's BalladsAnyone know if  Charles Leland actually collected these ballads or were they composed.  It would seem to me that if he collected them all he would have included a tune name with the ballad. It would also seem likely that some of these ballads are part of the existing "canon" of ballads collected in the isles.  In learning a little about Mr. Leland it seems that he had a particularly strong interest in the occult,  folklore, the occult, It makes me wonder if any of the other collectors of ballads and folklore are also as interested in the occult. I haven't heard of any other ties to the darker arts, certainly the Scottish Folk Lore lends itself to this but I have not heard this mentioned with any of the Scottish Collectors.  Are these big secrets or is there not enough truth to warrant study in these areas.Sammy Rich

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

I am forwarding this info from another music list for those interested (do
note though that the music files are not readable by mac ipod)...
Lisa>for those who download music, you might be interested in this:
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/20/arts/20folk.html
>
>Smithsonian's Song Catalog Is Available for Sale Online
>By BEN SISARIO
>
>Published: January 20, 2005
>
>Lead Belly, Woody Guthrie and the barking tree frogs are finally going
>online.
>
>Some 30,000 songs from the legendary Smithsonian Folkways catalog -
>field recordings of folk and blues, world and children's music, jazz,
>nature sounds and poetry - went on sale yesterday on Microsoft's MSN
>Music store (music.msn.com) for 99 cents apiece.
>
>MSN Music, which began selling music last fall, will have the exclusive
>right to sell the Smithsonian catalog through September, executives at
>Microsoft and Smithsonian Folkways said.
>
>The catalog, one of the richest troves of recorded Americana, is built
>on the Folkways label, founded in 1948 by Moses Asch. That label
>released Lead Belly's "Last Sessions," Pete Seeger's "American Folk
>Songs for Children" and Harry Smith's "Anthology of American Folk
>Music," among other bedrock albums of the folk era. The Smithsonian
>Institution purchased Folkways in 1987, the year after Asch died.
>
>In addition to the folk repertory, Folkways released jazz, world music,
>classical and avant-garde music, albums by songwriters like Phil Ochs
>and Lucinda Williams, and beloved oddities like "Sounds of North
>American Frogs," which has track titles like "Chorus of Barking
>Treefrogs (Hyla gratiosa)."
>
>On MSN Music, which has licensed more than a million songs for download,
>Guthrie, "Songs of the Western Australian Desert Aborigines" and the
>frogs abut the latest by Eminem, Kelly Clarkson and Gwen Stefani.
>
>Much of the original Folkways collection has been released on CD, but a
>majority of it has not been commercially available because the demand is
>so low. Of the roughly 40,000 tracks in the catalog, only about 5,700
>have been commercially released, said Atesh Sonneborn, the label's
>assistant director. Smithsonian Folkways makes copies of anything from
>its collection on request, and now every track will now be available on
>MSN Music.
>
>"I found things that I had no idea existed," Mr. Sonneborn said. "I
>found Dante's 'Inferno' read by John Ciardi. I had no idea it was even
>there."
>
>The tracks are encoded in the Windows Media format, which is readable by
>many portable music devices but not Apple's iPod. Single songs cost 99
>cents and compete albums $8.91. The Smithsonian gets about two-thirds of
>the purchase price of the music, Mr. Sonneborn said.
>
>When the agreement with Microsoft expires, Mr. Sonneborn said, the
>Smithsonian hopes to begin its own music download service, with more
>extensive text and documentation features.

This is the site that I just helped to Beta test for the Smithsonian.
You won't believe it. Problems with Mac operation can be solved by using
Firefox as your browser and changing your system prefs to open up all
mp3s in iTunes, if it's not there already. No problems at all using
Windows machines.
  The "Synchrotext" component of the site is particularly fascinating,
but the individual tunes are what will pique your interest.Beth Brooks>>> [unmask] 01/21/05 8:52 AM >>>
I am forwarding this info from another music list for those interested
(do
note though that the music files are not readable by mac ipod)...
Lisa

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

On Fri, Jan 21, 2005 at 03:34:44PM -0500, Roy Berkeley wrote:
> I am puzzled about the relevancy to a forum for ballad scholars of the attached posting.  Can someone enlighten me?
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Thomas Stern
>   To: [unmask]
>   Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 12:06 PM
>   Subject: [Fwd: Who Said What?]
>
>   -------- Original Message -------- Subject:  Who Said What?
>         Date:  Fri, 21 Jan 2005 11:06:28 -0500
>         From:  dick greenhaus <[unmask]>
>         Reply-To:  [unmask]
>         Organization:  CAMSCO
>         To:  Thomas H. Stern <[unmask]>, susi cohen <[unmask]>, Entropy Racing <[unmask]>
>
>
>
> Here's The QUIZ:
> Who said this?
>
> Bush or Hitler?        Perhaps the forwarder only wished to let us all know that CAMSCO
may have recovered from its earlier e-mail woes?  Note that Dick
Greenhause (Mr. Camsco) *didn't* forward it to this list! -- Aloha,
Lani<||> Lani Herrmann * [unmask] (or: [unmask])
<||> 5621 Sierra Ave. * Richmond, CA 94805 * (510) 237-7360

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

On 1/21/05, Steiner, Margaret wrote:>well, you're right: this posting is not relevant to a scholarly ballad list.  I'm sure that a good many of us, myself included, are in sympathy with the sentiments expressed by the posting, and I forearded it to our local peace action E-mail list.
>
>I hesitate, though, to be a list cop.  Maybe we can say that if you know that someone shares your political sentiments, feel free to send relevant postings to those folks rather than to a scholarly list.Just as a thought on this: Obviously the message is off-topic.
However, what makes Ballad-L what it is is the fact that we have
a community -- almost everything comes up at one time or another,
and I can recall few objections. Probably that says something
about the members of the list: Only one person even queried it.If this had gone to most lists, there would have been a complete
firestorm. Formally, it would even be justified. In context, though,
it probably has to be accepted that this list -- like any group
composed of people interested in traditional music -- is almost
entirely composed of non-Neoconservatives. (To put it mildly.
Personally, I would have guessed that *no one* who posts here
would have been offended by his. Depressed, yes, offended, no.)So the advice to all is: Think about what you're sending, but
don't shut down the community because once in a while something
comes up that's controversial.I, for one, would say Thank you to Margaret Steiner for maintaining
a list that really works quite well.--
Bob Waltz
[unmask]"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

To Bob and to all the listers:I, too, am struck by the civility of discourse on this list, and that everyone seems eager to help their colleagues.  What a great community!And, thanks, Bob, Ed, and others for getting the Ballad Index going.  I'm proud that this list served as a catalyst for this invaluable work.Peace.        Marge -----Original Message-----
From: Forum for ballad scholars [mailto:[unmask]]On
Behalf Of Robert B. Waltz
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 5:33 PM
To: [unmask]
Subject: Re: Who Said What?]On 1/21/05, Steiner, Margaret wrote:>well, you're right: this posting is not relevant to a scholarly ballad list.  I'm sure that a good many of us, myself included, are in sympathy with the sentiments expressed by the posting, and I forearded it to our local peace action E-mail list.
>
>I hesitate, though, to be a list cop.  Maybe we can say that if you know that someone shares your political sentiments, feel free to send relevant postings to those folks rather than to a scholarly list.Just as a thought on this: Obviously the message is off-topic.
However, what makes Ballad-L what it is is the fact that we have
a community -- almost everything comes up at one time or another,
and I can recall few objections. Probably that says something
about the members of the list: Only one person even queried it.If this had gone to most lists, there would have been a complete
firestorm. Formally, it would even be justified. In context, though,
it probably has to be accepted that this list -- like any group
composed of people interested in traditional music -- is almost
entirely composed of non-Neoconservatives. (To put it mildly.
Personally, I would have guessed that *no one* who posts here
would have been offended by his. Depressed, yes, offended, no.)So the advice to all is: Think about what you're sending, but
don't shut down the community because once in a while something
comes up that's controversial.I, for one, would say Thank you to Margaret Steiner for maintaining
a list that really works quite well.--
Bob Waltz
[unmask]"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

<<As a point of pedantic and folkloric interest only: Something like this
went the rounds about 1969 during the Southeast Asia war, with Nixon in
place of Bush.  It turned out the "Hitler" quotes were either invented or,
shall we say, rather loosely retranslated.  (For all I know, these are all
real - but experience teaches skepticism.)>>Which makes it folklore, and almost on-topic, by gum.Interesting -- in 1972 I was working for the political environmentalist
Barry Commoner as a research gofer, and right after the election Nixon had
given an interview where he characterized the American people as being like
children, who needed to be led. Dr. C. remembered a similar quote from
Hitler and sent me to the library with the instruction to read "Mein Kampf".
Not the most pleasant gig, but the quote was there. So that parallelism, at
least, was real.I suspect the current list of quotes will be found on the Urban Legends
reference site pretty soon, with info on whether they're correct.Peace,
Paul

Now you're talkin'. I would be interested in seeing
those Hitler quotes in the original German-- die wir
sofort ?ersetzen werden, ganz sicherlich.CAAs a point of pedantic and folkloric interest only:
Something like this went the rounds about 1969 during
the
Southeast Asia war, with Nixon in place of Bush. It
turned out the
"Hitler" quotes were either invented or, shall we say,rather loosely retranslated.  (For all I know, these
are all
real - but experience teaches skepticism.)JL

did not get the address of the page in my e.mail....try again?CBBeth Brooks wrote:> This is the site that I just helped to Beta test for the Smithsonian.
> You won't believe it. Problems with Mac operation can be solved by using
> Firefox as your browser and changing your system prefs to open up all
> mp3s in iTunes, if it's not there already. No problems at all using
> Windows machines.
>   The "Synchrotext" component of the site is particularly fascinating,
> but the individual tunes are what will pique your interest.
>
> Beth Brooks
>
>
>>>>[unmask] 01/21/05 8:52 AM >>>
>
> I am forwarding this info from another music list for those interested
> (do
> note though that the music files are not readable by mac ipod)...
> Lisa--
@#@#@#@##@#@#@#@#@##@#@#@#@#@#@@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@
Looking through my bedroom window, out into the moonlight and the
uneding smoke-colored snow,
I could see the lights in the windows of all the other houses on our
hill and hear the music rising from them
up the long, steadily falling night. I turned the gas down, I got into
bed. I said some words to the
close and holy darkness, and then I slept!-Dylan Thomas
####################################################################

This political squib may not be directly related to ballad form, but it
sure as hell is a piece of modern folklore in the Xerox-lore tradition.
SteveG

Very true.        Marge -----Original Message-----
From: Forum for ballad scholars [mailto:[unmask]]On
Behalf Of Steve Gardham
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 4:09 PM
To: [unmask]
Subject: Re: Who Said What?]This political squib may not be directly related to ballad form, but it
sure as hell is a piece of modern folklore in the Xerox-lore tradition.
SteveG

At 09:25 AM 1/22/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>did not get the address of the page in my e.mail....try again?
>CB>Some 30,000 songs from the legendary Smithsonian Folkways catalog -
>field recordings of folk and blues, world and children's music, jazz,
>nature sounds and poetry - went on sale yesterday on Microsoft's MSN
>Music store (music.msn.com) for 99 cents apiece.

I think that most folklorists are interested in the occult to the extent that they collect and study ghost stories and belief in supernatural beings and occurrences, but in Britain at least most have shied away from anything which implies that they believe in the occult themselves. Even today the (British) Folklore Society is wary of admitting 'practising witches' and such-like to their ranks. The only one I can think of who really did (apparantly) believe was Andrew Lang (1844-1912). He is probably remembered mostly for his fairy-tale books but he also did some work on Scottish ballads, amongst a huge output of books and essays on a wide range of topics. Some of his fellow folklorists of the time treated him with caution because of his willingness to believe. His 'Protest of a Psycho-Folklorist' in Folk-Lore 6 (1895) 236-248 is interesting in this respect, and (if memory serves) the book 'Cock Lane and Common Sense' (1894); and there's a bibliography of his writings in Roger Lancelyn Green, 'Andrew Lang: a Critical Biography' (Edmund Ward, 1946), and a good summary of his life and work in Dorson's 'The British Folklorists' (1968).
Steve Roud--
Message sent with Supanet E-mail-----Original Message-----
From:     "Steiner, Margaret" <[unmask]>
To:       [unmask]
Subject:  Re: Hans Breitmann's Ballads> Re, interest in the occult: Helen Creighton certainly published on ghost lore, and Yeats certainly had those interests.
>
> Marge
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Forum for ballad scholars [mailto:[unmask]]On
> Behalf Of Sammy Rich
> Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 10:55 PM
> To: [unmask]
> Subject: Hans Breitmann's Ballads
>
>
> Anyone know if Charles Leland actually collected these ballads or were they composed. It would seem to me that if he collected them all he would have included a tune name with the ballad. It would also seem likely that some of these ballads are part of the existing "canon" of ballads collected in the isles. In learning a little about Mr. Leland it seems that he had a particularly strong interest in the occult, folklore, the occult, It makes me wonder if any of the other collectors of ballads and folklore are also as interested in the occult. I haven't heard of any other ties to the darker arts, certainly the Scottish Folk Lore lends itself to this but I have not heard this mentioned with any of the Scottish Collectors. Are these big secrets or is there not enough truth to warrant study in these areas.
>
> Sammy RichSignup to supanet at https://signup.supanet.com/cgi-bin/signup?_origin=sigwebmail

>> Anyone know if Charles Leland actually collected these ballads
>> or were they composed.
> All of these poems (not songs) were written by Leland in the persona
> of a soft-hearted (and -headed) German immigrant.  None is a "ballad"
> in our sense of the word, and none was traditional.And none was any good.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack>     *     food intolerance data & recipes,
Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files, and my CD-ROM "Embro, Embro".
---> off-list mail to "j-c" rather than "ballad-l" at this site, please. <---

Can anyone tell me anything about the origins,, age, etc of  of the
song the Life of a Leaf or Life of a Man?  which title is correct?
I have three versions.-- X-Seaman , the Yetties and Keith Kendrick. any
others?ThanksGeorgeGeorge F Madaus
Professor Emeritus
Boston College

<<Can anyone tell me anything about the origins,, age, etc of  of the
song the Life of a Leaf or Life of a Man?  which title is correct?
I have three versions.-- X-Seaman , the Yetties and Keith Kendrick. any
others?>>The earliest instance known to the editors of the Ballad Index is a 1904
manuscript by Cecil Sharp. It certainly has the feeling of a composed song,
but we have no info yet about the composer.Paul & Linda Adams recorded it on "Farewell to the Fells", Steeleye Span did
it on "They Called Her Babylon", and Joe Hickerson did it on a Fox Hollow
LP. The Copper family recorded it on "Adam and Eve".Peace,
Paul

Thanks Paul I will try to track those versions downUp to my neck in snow
All the best
George
George F Madaus
Professor Emeritus
Boston College
On Jan 23, 2005, at 12:56 PM, Paul Stamler wrote:> <<Can anyone tell me anything about the origins,, age, etc of  of the
> song the Life of a Leaf or Life of a Man?  which title is correct?
> I have three versions.-- X-Seaman , the Yetties and Keith Kendrick. any
> others?>>
>
> The earliest instance known to the editors of the Ballad Index is a
> 1904
> manuscript by Cecil Sharp. It certainly has the feeling of a composed
> song,
> but we have no info yet about the composer.
>
> Paul & Linda Adams recorded it on "Farewell to the Fells", Steeleye
> Span did
> it on "They Called Her Babylon", and Joe Hickerson did it on a Fox
> Hollow
> LP. The Copper family recorded it on "Adam and Eve".
>
> Peace,
> Paul

It was quite widely printed on 19th century Br broadsides under titles 'The
Fall of the Leaf' and ''The Leaves of the Tree' some with 7 double stanzas.
It also seems to have been inspired by  17th century ballad 'The Life of
man' See Roxburgh Vol 1 p142.
SteveG

Dear Ballad-L,I am seeking a song called "Johnny Smoker".  There's a reference to a song
by that name as minstrel piece sung in an 1863 Richmond, VA prisoner-of-war
camp in this book:--- Wells, James M. (Capt., 8th Michigan Cav.), With Touch of Elbow; or
Death Before Dishonor, John C. Winston Co.: Philadelphia, etc., 1909, ---I have also seen references to a round for children called "Johnny Smoker"
(maybe one sprang from the other).The only fragments of the lyrics that I remember were:"Oh Johnny Smoker
tah dah dah dah <blank> oker".
(Sorry)It was sung to a bunch of my collected cousins by our visiting missionary
great-uncle when I was about ten years of age (early 1960s), and I've been
wondering about the song (off and on) ever since. Oddly, I do believe I'd
recognize it if I heard it.Any help would be appreciated.Tx,  Dan

Could this be the same as the well-known "Johnny Booker"?  I think I
recall "Johnny Booker" from the children's songs LP of Lomax's
"Southern Journey" (or whatever it was called).John>Dear Ballad-L,
>
>I am seeking a song called "Johnny Smoker".  There's a reference to a song
>by that name as minstrel piece sung in an 1863 Richmond, VA prisoner-of-war
>camp in this book:
>
>--- Wells, James M. (Capt., 8th Michigan Cav.), With Touch of Elbow; or
>Death Before Dishonor, John C. Winston Co.: Philadelphia, etc., 1909, ---
>
>I have also seen references to a round for children called "Johnny Smoker"
>(maybe one sprang from the other).
>
>The only fragments of the lyrics that I remember were:
>
>"Oh Johnny Smoker
>tah dah dah dah <blank> oker".
>(Sorry)
>
>It was sung to a bunch of my collected cousins by our visiting missionary
>great-uncle when I was about ten years of age (early 1960s), and I've been
>wondering about the song (off and on) ever since. Oddly, I do believe I'd
>recognize it if I heard it.
>
>Any help would be appreciated.
>
>Tx,  Dan

Subject: Re: Life of a Leaf> It was quite widely printed on 19th century Br broadsides under titles 'The
> Fall of the Leaf' and ''The Leaves of the Tree' some with 7 double stanzas.
> It also seems to have been inspired by  17th century ballad 'The Life of
> man' See Roxburgh Vol 1 p142.
> SteveG-----------------------Broadside examples can be seen at the Bodleian Library website as 'The Fall of the Leaf' and 'Fall
of Leaves.'  The Roud Index lists it at number 848, chiefly found in oral currency in the South of
England. A few examples from Canada (Edith Fowke collection) are also mentioned.Malcolm Douglas--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.1 - Release Date: 19/01/05

Does this mean that the correct title is Life of a Leaf not Life of a
Man?The Adams, Hickerson  and Copper versions don't seem available. The
Paul and Linda Adams version seems to be on Far Over the Fells not
Farewell to the Fells which I could not findThanks for all the responses. I appreciate all your helpGeorgeGeorge F Madaus
Professor Emeritus
Boston College
On Jan 23, 2005, at 3:06 PM, Malcolm Douglas wrote:
correctSubject: Re: Life of a Leaf
>
>
>> It was quite widely printed on 19th century Br broadsides under
>> titles 'The
>> Fall of the Leaf' and ''The Leaves of the Tree' some with 7 double
>> stanzas.
>> It also seems to have been inspired by  17th century ballad 'The Life
>> of
>> man' See Roxburgh Vol 1 p142.
>> SteveG
>
> -----------------------
>
> Broadside examples can be seen at the Bodleian Library website as 'The
> Fall of the Leaf' and 'Fall
> of Leaves.'  The Roud Index lists it at number 848, chiefly found in
> oral currency in the South of
> England. A few examples from Canada (Edith Fowke collection) are also
> mentioned.
>
> Malcolm Douglas
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.1 - Release Date: 19/01/05

There are several songs/ditties called 'Johnny Booker', and this could be one of those (see my Folk Song Index if you can), but the only 'Johnny Smoker' I can find was collected in Gloucestershire in 1969. It is one of those cumulative 'I am the Music Man' songs:
Johnny Smoker, Johnny Smoker
I can play, I can play
I can play on my drum
Rub-a-dub-a-dub
That is my drum
My rub-a-dub-a-dub
That is my drum.Continues with fife, cymbals, trombone, bagpipes, with appropriate noises.Published in Folk Music Journal 1:5 (1969) 335-8Steve Roud--
Message sent with Supanet E-mail-----Original Message-----
From:     Dan Cummins <[unmask]>
To:       [unmask]
Subject:  Johnny Smoker> Dear Ballad-L,
>
> I am seeking a song called "Johnny Smoker". There's a reference to a song
> by that name as minstrel piece sung in an 1863 Richmond, VA prisoner-of-war
> camp in this book:
>
> --- Wells, James M. (Capt., 8th Michigan Cav.), With Touch of Elbow; or
> Death Before Dishonor, John C. Winston Co.: Philadelphia, etc., 1909, ---
>
> I have also seen references to a round for children called "Johnny Smoker"
> (maybe one sprang from the other).
>
> The only fragments of the lyrics that I remember were:
>
> "Oh Johnny Smoker
> tah dah dah dah oker".
> (Sorry)
>
> It was sung to a bunch of my collected cousins by our visiting missionary
> great-uncle when I was about ten years of age (early 1960s), and I've been
> wondering about the song (off and on) ever since. Oddly, I do believe I'd
> recognize it if I heard it.
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Tx, DanSignup to supanet at https://signup.supanet.com/cgi-bin/signup?_origin=sigwebmail

The vast majority of 20th century traditional singers called it 'The Life of a Man', or 'What is the Life of a Man', after the first lines of the chorus. The 19th cent broadside printers usually called it 'The Fall of the Leaf'.
Take your pick, but I would normally go by the singers, they knew what they were doing.
Steve Roud--
Message sent with Supanet E-mail-----Original Message-----
From:     George Madaus <[unmask]>
To:       [unmask]
Subject:  Re: Life of a Leaf> Does this mean that the correct title is Life of a Leaf not Life of a
> Man?
>
> The Adams, Hickerson and Copper versions don't seem available. The
> Paul and Linda Adams version seems to be on Far Over the Fells not
> Farewell to the Fells which I could not find
>
> Thanks for all the responses. I appreciate all your help
>
> George
>
> George F Madaus
> Professor Emeritus
> Boston College
> On Jan 23, 2005, at 3:06 PM, Malcolm Douglas wrote:
> correctSubject: Re: Life of a Leaf
> >
> >
> >> It was quite widely printed on 19th century Br broadsides under
> >> titles 'The
> >> Fall of the Leaf' and ''The Leaves of the Tree' some with 7 double
> >> stanzas.
> >> It also seems to have been inspired by 17th century ballad 'The Life
> >> of
> >> man' See Roxburgh Vol 1 p142.
> >> SteveG
> >
> > -----------------------
> >
> > Broadside examples can be seen at the Bodleian Library website as 'The
> > Fall of the Leaf' and 'Fall
> > of Leaves.' The Roud Index lists it at number 848, chiefly found in
> > oral currency in the South of
> > England. A few examples from Canada (Edith Fowke collection) are also
> > mentioned.
> >
> > Malcolm Douglas
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.1 - Release Date: 19/01/05Signup to supanet at https://signup.supanet.com/cgi-bin/signup?_origin=sigwebmail

----- Original Message -----
From: "George Madaus" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: 23 January 2005 20:06
Subject: Re: Life of a Leaf> Does this mean that the correct title is Life of a Leaf not Life of a
> Man?Titles vary, but published examples of the song as found in oral currency appear most often as 'The
Life of a Man,' 'What's the Life of a Man,' or some variation thereon. Though not the only 'correct'
titles, you'll find those more helpful in getting results than 'Life of a Leaf,' which I don't think
I've ever come across.The late Bruce Olson would probably have made the point that recordings by revival performers aren't
necessarily very helpful in examining the history of a song, though of course if they identify their
source that does provide somewhere to start.You'll find the Copper Family text athttp://www.thecopperfamily.com/together with information on recordings and other resources.Malcolm Douglas

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Automatic digest processor <[unmask]>, in the
person of Steve Roud, writes:> There are several songs/ditties called 'Johnny Booker', and this
> could be one of those (see my Folk Song Index if you can), but the
> only 'Johnny Smoker' I can find was collected in Gloucestershire in
> 1969. It is one of those cumulative 'I am the Music Man' songs:> Johnny Smoker, Johnny Smoker
> I can play, I can play
> I can play on my drum
> Rub-a-dub-a-dub
> That is my drum
> My rub-a-dub-a-dub
> That is my drum.
>
> Continues with fife, cymbals, trombone, bagpipes, with appropriate
> noises.We had this song in my family when I was little (southern California,
1940s), but, weirdly, in German, or maybe pseudo-German:  Johnny Schmoker, Johnny Schmoker,
  Ich kann spielen, ich kann spielen,
  Ich kann spiel' -- das is mein' Violin',
  Sum-sum-sum mein' Violin'.etc.  Note the half-Germanized English name.  I suppose one of my
parents must have gotten it from somewhere.
--
---  Joe Fineman    [unmask]||:  Whatever has "science" in its name isn't.  :||

The post came across, but Eudora tells me that "The URL is not
syntactically valid." Clicking on it didn't work, and neither did
cutting and pasting it into several different browsers. I got
"Temporary file open error. Display failed." Maybe it works on
Windows?>The 1863 version of "Johnny Schmoker," credited to B. F. Rix, is
>available here:
>
>
>
><'"http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?dukesm:1:./temp/~ammem_WUTE::@@@mdb=mcc,gottscho,detr,nfor,wpa,aap,cwar,bbpix,cowellbib,calbkbib,consrvbib,bdsbib,dag,fsaall,gmd,pan,vv,presp,varstg,suffrg,nawbib,horyd,wtc,toddbib,mgw,ncr,ngp,musdibib,hlaw,papr,lhb>http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?dukesm:1:./temp/~ammem_WUTE::@@@mdb=mcc,gottscho,detr,nfor,wpa,aap,cwar,bbpix,cowellbib,calbkbib,consrvbib,bdsbib,dag,fsaall,gmd,pan,vv,presp,v
>arstg,suffrg,nawbib,horyd,wtc,toddbib,mgw,ncr,ngp,musdibib,hlaw,papr,lhbumbib,rbpebib,lbcoll,alad,hh,aaodyssey,magbell,bbcards,dcm,raelbib,runyon,dukesm,lomaxbib,mtj,gottlieb,aep,qlt,coolbib,fpnas,aasm,scsm,denn,relpet,amss,aaeo,mffbib,hawp,omhbib,rbaapcbib,mal,ncpsbib,ncpm,lhbprbib,ftvbib,afcreed,aipn,cwband,flwpabib,wpapos,cmns,psbib,pin,coplandbib,cola,tccc,curt,mharendt,lhbcbbib,eaa,haybib,mesnbib,fine,cwnyhs,svybib,mmorse,afcwwgbib,mymhiwebib,uncall,mfd,afcwip,mtaft,manz,llstbib,fawbib,berl,fmuever,cdn,upboverbib,mussm,cic,afcpearl,awh,awhbib,sgp,wright,lhbtnbib,afcesnbib,hurstonbib,mreynoldsbib,spaldingbib,sgproto
>
>It is still sung in one form or another.
>
>JL
>
>
>
>[unmask] wrote:
>
>There are several songs/ditties called 'Johnny Booker', and this
>could be one of those (see my Folk Song Index if you can), but the
>only 'Johnny Smoker' I can find was collected in Gloucestershire in
>1969. It is one of those cumulative 'I am the Music Man' songs:
>Johnny Smoker, Johnny Smoker
>I can play, I can play
>I can play on my drum
>Rub-a-dub-a-dub
>That is my drum
>My rub-a-dub-a-dub
>That is my drum.
>
>Continues with fife, cymbals, trombone, bagpipes, with appropriate noises.
>
>Published in Folk Music Journal 1:5 (1969) 335-8
>
>Steve Roud
>
>--
>Message sent with Supanet E-mail
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Dan Cummins
>To: [unmask]
>Subject: Johnny Smoker
>
>>  Dear Ballad-L,
>>
>>  I am seeking a song called "Johnny Smoker". There's a reference to a song
>>  by that name as minstrel piece sung in an 1863 Richmond, VA prisoner-of-war
>>  camp in this book:
>>
>>  --- Wells, James M. (Capt., 8th Michigan Cav.), With Touch of Elbow; or
>>  Death Before Dishonor, John C. Winston Co.: Philadelphia, etc., 1909, ---
>>
>>  I have also seen references to a round for children called "Johnny Smoker"
>>  (maybe one sprang from the other).
>>
>>  The only fragments of the lyrics that I remember were:
>>
>>  "Oh Johnny Smoker
>>  tah dah dah dah oker".
>>  (Sorry)
>>
>>  It was sung to a bunch of my collected cousins by our visiting missionary
>>  great-uncle when I was about ten years of age (early 1960s), and I've been
>>  wondering about the song (off and on) ever since. Oddly, I do believe I'd
>>  recognize it if I heard it.
>>
>>  Any help would be appreciated.
>>
>>  Tx, Dan
>
>
>Signup to supanet at
>https://signup.supanet.com/cgi-bin/signup?_origin=sigwebmail
>
>
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Search presents -
><http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=30648/*http://movies.yahoo.com/movies/feature/jibjabinaugural.html>Jib
>Jab's 'Second Term'--
Alan Ackerman, [unmask]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Ackerman" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: 24 January 2005 03:30
Subject: Re: Johnny Smoker> The post came across, but Eudora tells me that "The URL is not
> syntactically valid." Clicking on it didn't work, and neither did
> cutting and pasting it into several different browsers. I got
> "Temporary file open error. Display failed." Maybe it works on
> Windows?It isn't a platform issue. The link is to a temporary (and extinct) file generated by the search
script, not to the search itself or to the actual location of the file. American Memory is set up
that way. You can get a proper URL by selecting "view source"; you'll find it at the bottom of the
page. Heaven knows why they do it that way. Abby Sale told me the trick, I think. This will work
(the second bracket at the end is part of it):http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/dukesm:@field(DOCID+@lit(ncdhasm.n1384))Malcolm Douglas

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Isca Fayre did a very good version back in the '70s.George Madaus wrote:
>
> Can anyone tell me anything about the origins,, age, etc of  of the
> song the Life of a Leaf or Life of a Man?  which title is correct?
> I have three versions.-- X-Seaman , the Yetties and Keith Kendrick. any
> others?
>
> Thanks
>
> George
>
> George F Madaus
> Professor Emeritus
> Boston College

If you'd like a cassette copy of the Isca Fayre LP I can oblige.AndyGeorge Madaus wrote:
>
> Can anyone tell me anything about the origins,, age, etc of  of the
> song the Life of a Leaf or Life of a Man?  which title is correct?
> I have three versions.-- X-Seaman , the Yetties and Keith Kendrick. any
> others?
>
> Thanks
>
> George
>
> George F Madaus
> Professor Emeritus
> Boston College

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 14:59:20 -0800, Jonathan Lighter wrote:>Maybe the last post was derainled by the unbelievaby long URL that accompanied it!
>Here's another "deal with it" bit for truly long URLs - like 5 or 600
characters.  They're often unclickable when they break up into several lines
and are hardish to remember. (!)tinyurl.com makes a small, _permanent_ (they say) URL for it.Their "Make Toolbar Button" is handy.  You put it on your browser toolbar
and simply click it when faced with a URL you want to keep as a tiny one.
It automatically makes a tinyurl for the page you happen to be on at the
moment.  (No Yes/No is offered, it just does it.)Eg, the message I'm answering here, at the Listserv archive is
https://listserv.indiana.edu/cgi-bin/wa-iub.exe?A2=ind0501&L=ballad-l&T=0&F=&S=&P=27425The tinyurl for it is http://tinyurl.com/49kbp-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida

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Good People:I received this good news from Rhoda Goldstein this morning.Ed------------------------------------------
Subject         Rochelle on the mendDear Friends,
     I just wanted to let you all know that my mother (Rochelle Goldstein)
appears to be well on the road to recovery. She has been breathing on her
own for 4 days and today had her trachiostomy removed.  She has movement in
her head, shoulders and arms and can now talk on the phone - - the hospital
set up a special speaker phone system for her as she still has  difficulty
holding the phone.  If anyone wants to call her or visit her (for those of
you who are local) she is welcoming visitors.  The phone # for the hospital
is 610-645-2000.  I would definitely call before you visit, because she has
been progressing so well that I wouldn't be surprised if they move her to a
less acute unit or transfer her to the rehab (another facility entirely).
  Her spirits are amazing and she has really enjoyed recieving everyone's
emails. Thanks so much for all your good wishes.
Warmly,
Rhoda

There is a De Marsan (NY) printed version on the Bodleian website, the mock
German version with explanations of how to perform it.
Ref Harding B18 (327)
SteveG

Thank you for all of the thoughtful responses to my request regarding this
song. They comprise some excellent leads.Here's an excerpt from the 1863 piece that I had referenced in my original
post:"...Religious services were held quite frequently, but in an evil hour a
minstrel troupe was organized, which came near swamping religion and all
other considerations for the time being. Any old prisoner will remember the
song of ?Johnny Smoker,? and how the chorus, ?Wizer, Wizer, Rinctum Bum,?
was rendered by the minstrel band, and with what gusto it was received by
the whole prison."I recall no German in my uncle's version (though he was known to
intersperse Chinese dialogue into a ghost tale he'd be telling us.). For
the first time, it occurs to me that he may have just made up his song.  He
had been held in solitary confinement in China for near a year (1953/54),
and my family said he wrote "Carols" to keep himself sane. Maybe he took a
phrase fragment of some childhood song of his own and stretched it out on a
dark day.  Who knows?   I'll keep poking around for it.Thanks again & peace,Dan

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Hi-
As an importer, the plummeting value of the dollar has become a real
problem for CAMSCO Music--Overseas recordings have become prohibitively
expensive (for the US market.)The other side of this situation, of course, is that US recordings are
now a real bargain overseas. F'rinstance, CAMSCO can sell a Rounder CD
for 10.25 pounds (including shipping by air) for the first CD in an
order, with subsequent CDs on the same order going for 7.30 GBP.Other US labels seldom cost more than 11.29 GBP for the first CD and
8.80 GBP sor subsequent CDs.Contact me at:
[unmask]  (which seems to be working now)
or phone me at 203-531-3355(somebody should benefit by the current US economic non-policy)>
>

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Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

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Fred:And here I thought the class system had been eradicated in Ol' Blighty.  (Though preserved in various precincts in the United States.)Ed----- Original Message -----
From: Fred McCormick <[unmask]>
Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 2:23 am
Subject: Who said I'm not revolting ?>
> Sorry folks, but I just gotta share this. I know I'm into the music
> of  the
> common 'erd and the lower orders and I haven't bathed for 6 months.
> But I
> never expected to receive a piece of spam quite so perfectly
> tailored to  my
> station in life as this one below. Fair makes me want to touch  my
> forelock, it
> does..
> Fred McCormick, (villein of this parish)
> Peasant day ,
> Sales i am Mrs Maria  Paula  a citizen of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
> ...................
>

Does anyone have year of death for her?
Thanks,
Norm Cohen

I believe it's 6 Nov. 1996Norm Cohen wrote:>Does anyone have year of death for her?
>Thanks,
>Norm Cohen
>
>
>

Hi!        Hope that everyone is well and not buried in snow! Here is the
weekly list.        SONGSTERS        6506700782 - The Yellow Kid Hogan's Alley Songster, 1897, $49.99
(ends Jan-26-05 18:39:25 PST)        3953879542 - True Blue Republican Campaign Songs, 1892, $39.99
(ends Jan-27-05 18:20:23 PST)        6507217983 - Harrigan and Hart's little green leaf in our bible
songster, 1879, $5 (ends Jan-29-05 11:15:49 PST)        7129787470 - merchant's gargling oil Songster, 1884, $5 (ends
Jan-29-05 11:16:25 PST)        3954147278 - howe's great london combination Songster, 1874, $31
(ends Jan-29-05 11:18:39 PST)        3954147505 - frank a. robbins clowns dream and fate palmistry co.
songster, 1888, $26 (ends Jan-29-05 11:19:36 PST)        3954147829 - barnum and london circus songster, 1880?, $5 (ends
Jan-29-05 11:21:30 PST)        MISCELLANEOUS        4068817711 - The Broomfield Wager by Poacher, LP, 1975, 8.50 GBP
(ends Jan-26-05 05:09:53 PST)        4070239441 - Bawdy Blues, LP, test pressing, $9.99 (ends Feb-01-05
04:30:43 PST)        SONGBOOKS, ETC.        3777350984 - KERR'S BUCHAN BOTHY BALLADS, books 1 & 2, $4.99 (ends
Jan-27-05 06:22:22 PST)        3953789823 - Mountain and Western Ballads As Sung By Jim and Jane
and their Western Vagabonds, 1940?, $4 (ends Jan-27-05 10:15:11 PST)        4521596726 -  BIBLIOGRAPHY OF EARLY SECULAR AMERICAN MUSIC [18th
Century] by Sonneck, 1945, $24.99 (ends Jan-27-05 18:39:33 PST)        7949387966 - THE COMMON MUSE-AN ANTHOLOGY OF POPULAR BRITISH BALLAD
POETRY 15th-20th CENTURY by de Sola Pinto & Rodway, 1957, 0.99 GBP (ends
Jan-28-05 10:08:40 PST)        7948907358 - A Book of British Ballads by Brimley Johnson, 1939,
4.99 GBP (ends Jan-29-05 03:14:23 PST)        4521209459 - Songs of The Fell Pack, 1971, 4.99 GBP (ends Jan-29-05
10:42:55 PST)        3777804244 - 3 Bradley Kincaid songbooks, 1929-193?, $4.49 (ends
Jan-29-05 11:10:08 PST)        4521962909 - Favourite Bush Ballads by Stewart & Keesing, 1977
edition, 0.01 GBP (ends Jan-29-05 11:21:55 PST)        4522045388 - Folk Ballads of English-Speaking World by Friedman,
1964, $3 (ends Jan-29-05 14:36:07 PST)        6944280675 - Peters Webb Music Book, 1849-1854, $15.50 (ends
Jan-29-05 18:30:42 PST)        6944286827 - Popular Songs of Ireland by Croker, 1886, $0.99 (ends
Jan-29-05 19:56:04 PST)        4522180912 - Folksongs & Folklore of South Uist by Shaw, 1977, $20
(ends Jan-30-05 07:50:26 PST)        6944385914 - Ancient & Modern Scottish Songs, Heroic Ballads by
Herd, volume 1, 1869, $10 (ends Jan-30-05 12:15:35 PST)        6943946909 - Negro Folk Songs as Sung by Lead Belly by Lomax, 1936,
$27 (ends Jan-30-05 13:10:08 PST)        4521515144 - Border Ballads by Tomson, 2.99 GBP (ends Jan-30-05
13:11:54 PST)        3954411274 - COUNTRY SONGS OF VERMONT by Flanders, 1937, $2.99
(ends Jan-30-05 16:18:33 PST)        3778135209 - Lonesome Tunes Folk Songs From The Kentucky Mountains
by Wyman, 1916, $1.95 (ends Jan-30-05 16:54:09 PST)        6944463836 - the nut -brown maid, 1.99 GBP (ends Jan-31-05 04:50:14
PST)        3778310869 - Ballads and songs of World War 1 by Silverman, 2.99
GBP (ends Jan-31-05 12:10:01 PST)        3778027333 - FOLK SONGS FROM SOMERSET by Sharp, 1906, 5.19 GBP
(ends Feb-02-05 10:52:46 PST)        6944510873 - The Oxford Nursery Rhyme Book by Opie, 1960, 4 GBP
(ends Feb-03-05 12:51:03 PST)                                Happy Bidding!
                                Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

From the latest e-Bay list --3953879542 - True Blue Republican Campaign Songs, 1892, $39.99Things change, don't they -- if there was such a book today, would it be "True Red Republican Campaign Songs"? And that would have sounded like a very strange thing not too many years ago! ;-)~ Becky Nankivell
Tucson, Arizona

I can assure you that we Australians are not buried in snow. It's
bloody hot down here! AND it's Australia Dat so BBQs reign supreme.
Warren FaheyOn 26/01/2005, at 3:10 PM, Dolores Nichols wrote:> Hi!
>
>         Hope that everyone is well and not buried in snow! Here is the
> weekly list.
>
>         SONGSTERS
>
>         6506700782 - The Yellow Kid Hogan's Alley Songster, 1897,
> $49.99
> (ends Jan-26-05 18:39:25 PST)
>
>         3953879542 - True Blue Republican Campaign Songs, 1892, $39.99
> (ends Jan-27-05 18:20:23 PST)
>
>         6507217983 - Harrigan and Hart's little green leaf in our bible
> songster, 1879, $5 (ends Jan-29-05 11:15:49 PST)
>
>         7129787470 - merchant's gargling oil Songster, 1884, $5 (ends
> Jan-29-05 11:16:25 PST)
>
>         3954147278 - howe's great london combination Songster, 1874,
> $31
> (ends Jan-29-05 11:18:39 PST)
>
>         3954147505 - frank a. robbins clowns dream and fate palmistry
> co.
> songster, 1888, $26 (ends Jan-29-05 11:19:36 PST)
>
>         3954147829 - barnum and london circus songster, 1880?, $5 (ends
> Jan-29-05 11:21:30 PST)
>
>         MISCELLANEOUS
>
>         4068817711 - The Broomfield Wager by Poacher, LP, 1975, 8.50
> GBP
> (ends Jan-26-05 05:09:53 PST)
>
>         4070239441 - Bawdy Blues, LP, test pressing, $9.99 (ends
> Feb-01-05
> 04:30:43 PST)
>
>         SONGBOOKS, ETC.
>
>         3777350984 - KERR'S BUCHAN BOTHY BALLADS, books 1 & 2, $4.99
> (ends
> Jan-27-05 06:22:22 PST)
>
>         3953789823 - Mountain and Western Ballads As Sung By Jim and
> Jane
> and their Western Vagabonds, 1940?, $4 (ends Jan-27-05 10:15:11 PST)
>
>         4521596726 -  BIBLIOGRAPHY OF EARLY SECULAR AMERICAN MUSIC
> [18th
> Century] by Sonneck, 1945, $24.99 (ends Jan-27-05 18:39:33 PST)
>
>         7949387966 - THE COMMON MUSE-AN ANTHOLOGY OF POPULAR BRITISH
> BALLAD
> POETRY 15th-20th CENTURY by de Sola Pinto & Rodway, 1957, 0.99 GBP
> (ends
> Jan-28-05 10:08:40 PST)
>
>         7948907358 - A Book of British Ballads by Brimley Johnson,
> 1939,
> 4.99 GBP (ends Jan-29-05 03:14:23 PST)
>
>         4521209459 - Songs of The Fell Pack, 1971, 4.99 GBP (ends
> Jan-29-05
> 10:42:55 PST)
>
>         3777804244 - 3 Bradley Kincaid songbooks, 1929-193?, $4.49
> (ends
> Jan-29-05 11:10:08 PST)
>
>         4521962909 - Favourite Bush Ballads by Stewart & Keesing, 1977
> edition, 0.01 GBP (ends Jan-29-05 11:21:55 PST)
>
>         4522045388 - Folk Ballads of English-Speaking World by
> Friedman,
> 1964, $3 (ends Jan-29-05 14:36:07 PST)
>
>         6944280675 - Peters Webb Music Book, 1849-1854, $15.50 (ends
> Jan-29-05 18:30:42 PST)
>
>         6944286827 - Popular Songs of Ireland by Croker, 1886, $0.99
> (ends
> Jan-29-05 19:56:04 PST)
>
>         4522180912 - Folksongs & Folklore of South Uist by Shaw, 1977,
> $20
> (ends Jan-30-05 07:50:26 PST)
>
>         6944385914 - Ancient & Modern Scottish Songs, Heroic Ballads by
> Herd, volume 1, 1869, $10 (ends Jan-30-05 12:15:35 PST)
>
>         6943946909 - Negro Folk Songs as Sung by Lead Belly by Lomax,
> 1936,
> $27 (ends Jan-30-05 13:10:08 PST)
>
>         4521515144 - Border Ballads by Tomson, 2.99 GBP (ends Jan-30-05
> 13:11:54 PST)
>
>         3954411274 - COUNTRY SONGS OF VERMONT by Flanders, 1937, $2.99
> (ends Jan-30-05 16:18:33 PST)
>
>         3778135209 - Lonesome Tunes Folk Songs From The Kentucky
> Mountains
> by Wyman, 1916, $1.95 (ends Jan-30-05 16:54:09 PST)
>
>         6944463836 - the nut -brown maid, 1.99 GBP (ends Jan-31-05
> 04:50:14
> PST)
>
>         3778310869 - Ballads and songs of World War 1 by Silverman,
> 2.99
> GBP (ends Jan-31-05 12:10:01 PST)
>
>         3778027333 - FOLK SONGS FROM SOMERSET by Sharp, 1906, 5.19 GBP
> (ends Feb-02-05 10:52:46 PST)
>
>         6944510873 - The Oxford Nursery Rhyme Book by Opie, 1960, 4 GBP
> (ends Feb-03-05 12:51:03 PST)
>
>                                 Happy Bidding!
>                                 Dolores
>
> --
> Dolores Nichols                 |
> D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
> Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
>         --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?
>

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